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cliffbo
12-29-2006, 05:23 PM
yes i know this is a PS2 article but i believe it shows Sony's intent with the PS3 and perhaps will alleviate a few concerns about the slow (due to shortages) sales of the PS3. Ten years is the key

In December video game maker Square Enix Co. began running prime-time TV ads in Japan featuring battle scenes from its new adventure game Seiken Densetsu 4, or Legend of the Sacred Sword. Every 30-second spot ended with a familiar logo: PlayStation. But the game isn't played on Sony Corp.'s (SNE) new PlayStation 3 console. It's for the PlayStation 2.

This might seem an odd time to launch an ad blitz for a game designed for the PS2, which has been around since 2000. The PS3, after all, was just introduced this fall and offers richer graphics with more lifelike action. But despite all the hype surrounding the PS3, its predecessor is likely to outsell it for two more years. "The PS2 will have legs well into 2008," says Michael Pachter, an analyst at Wedbush Morgan Securities in Los Angeles. And while Nintendo Co.'s Wii console is getting most of the industry buzz, and the Xbox 360 from Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) has racked up big sales in its year on the market, some say the PS2 might even beat out each of those offerings in 2007. "The PS2 probably has the capacity to sell more than any other gaming" console, says Simon Jeffrey, chief operating officer at game maker Sega of America (SGAMY).

The PS2 already owns the industry's all-time sales record. As of last March, Sony had shipped more than 103 million units worldwide. In the year ending in March, 2007, Sony expects to sell an additional 11 million—and just 6 million PS3s. In the following year, Sony will likely ship another 11 million PS2s vs. 7 million PS3s, according to research by rating agency Standard & Poor's (MHP).

The PS2's direct rivals, Microsoft's original Xbox and Nintendo's GameCube, are no longer in production. So why is the PS2 doing so well this late in life? For starters, it's cheap. Sony has cut the PS2's price to about $130, down from a high of $300, to entice casual gamers and kids. And with continuing sales and so many PS2 consoles in living rooms worldwide, there's plenty of demand for new titles. "All the media focus is on next-gen consoles and games, but a lot of the software companies will make a substantial portion of their earnings by selling [older] games," says Erik Whiteford, marketing director at California game maker 2K Sports.

FAMILY FARE


To keep sales growing, software makers are tweaking their PS2 efforts. In the console's early days, hard-core gamers were its main audience, but those diehards are now moving on to the PS3. So makers are beefing up offerings of family-oriented titles, kids' games, and movie tie-ins. Square Enix next spring plans to sell Kingdom Hearts II: Final Mix Plus, a collaboration with Walt Disney Co. (DIS) Around the same time, Paris-based Ubisoft will unveil Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles to coincide with the release of a film in that series. And Sega is working on a game based on a film from Philip Pullman's story The Golden Compass, due before the holidays in late 2007. While some of these will be available for other platforms as well, game makers have no plans to discontinue PS2 titles.

Nor is Sony in any hurry to kill the PS2. The launch of a new console always puts game makers in the red, and the PS3 is no exception. With delays and production snafus for the machine, Sony's game unit is expecting a $1.7 billion loss this fiscal year. The PS2, meanwhile, long ago turned profitable as component prices have plunged and development costs have been written off. Even at $130 a pop, Sony earns about $8 on each PS2 it sells, compared with an estimated loss of $250 per PS3. (Nintendo is believed to break even on the Wii, while Microsoft takes a loss on the Xbox 360.) And Sony will rake in some $1.4 billion this year from license fees paid by game makers and sales of its own game titles for the PS2 and its predecessor, the PSOne, Goldman, Sachs & Co. (GS) estimates. So it's clear Sony will want to milk the PS2 for all it's worth.

http://www.gametab.com/news/775696/

now if this new slew of kiddy games don't get too big in size that leaves plenty of scope for more ps2 downloads on the ps3 in the future.

Jasonps3
12-29-2006, 08:02 PM
Oh yeah, Sony is REALLY worried about the PS3 alright, LOL.

cliffbo
01-02-2007, 07:15 PM
i'm really surprised that no-one can see the perfect symmetry of Sony's big plan. the template is here to see and reflects very positively for the PS3.

EvilTaru
01-02-2007, 07:26 PM
It's kind of strange but I've been playing FFXII... ON MY PS3, and I love it. ~_~

I've been playing Motorstorm as well, which is awesome, can't wait to get my hands on the NA version. ~_~

jaxmkii
01-02-2007, 07:28 PM
@ cliffbo: i think the core members and thouse old enuff to remember the history of this article know this already. thats why all are so quiet.

woundingchaney
01-02-2007, 07:28 PM
i'm really surprised that no-one can see the perfect symmetry of Sony's big plan. the template is here to see and reflects very positively for the PS3.

By big plan, if your including the standardizing of BR then I would agree. If your suggesting matching PS2 market share and units sold then I would disagree.

cliffbo
01-02-2007, 07:36 PM
Sony's 'big plan' is to overlap console sales unlike MS which is to reinvent themselves every 5 to 6 years. i believe Sony's plan to be the better one simply because it creates 'long term satisfaction' amongst its followers. they plan on creating a backward compatible console every 5 to 6 years, but to support the older platform for another 5 to 6 years. with PS2 the opportunities were limited with this approach because the only thing that they could do was give you a reason to hold onto those old games, but with PS3 that opportunity goes 'beyond the box' and will inspire devs to create games for older platforms (in this case PS2) for even longer, thus creating a 'perpetual gaming market'.

edit. be prepared for a new announcement from Sony stating a 15 year plan. downloadable PS1/PS2/PSP games mean a chance for devs to make profit even if their game didn't do too well first time round. ICO would be the perfect example here... put it on downloadable content at $15 dollars and the devs will be laughing all the way to the bank. and large investment does not seem such a risk if you know that investment will still be paying in 10 years

EvilTaru
01-02-2007, 07:40 PM
By big plan, if your including the standardizing of BR then I would agree. If your suggesting matching PS2 market share and units sold then I would disagree.

It's rather premature to predict Sony not building an extremely strong PS3 userbase just like they did with the PS2 based on the launch, it's not like the PS2 launched in much larger numbers either, it's the subsequent ramp-up and tremendously strong month-to-month sales that got the PS2 where it is now. In the long haul Sony's first-party line-up will help tremendously where it just wasn't as strong before.

woundingchaney
01-02-2007, 07:45 PM
Sony's 'big plan' is to overlap console sales unlike MS which is to reinvent themselves every 5 to 6 years. i believe Sony's plan to be the better one simply because it creates 'long term satisfaction' amongst its followers. they plan on creating a backward compatible console every 5 to 6 years, but to support the older platform for another 5 to 6 years. with PS2 the opportunities were limited with this approach because the only thing that they could do was give you a reason to hold onto those old games, but with PS3 that opportunity goes 'beyond the box' and will inspire devs to create games for older platforms (in this case PS2) for even longer, thus creating a 'perpetual gaming market'.


Im not sure if Im buying the "ps2" dev. scenario in the future. The ps2s success is amazing (to put it lightly), the reason we see continued support is the mass integration of the console. To continue with this concept the PS3 must reach comparable numbers with the ps2. I dont believe the ps3 is inspiring the sales of the ps2 (or at least that this scenario was intended), the ps2 is inspiring support for the ps2.

This entire philosophy could bottom out if a Sony console doesnt match the staying power of the ps2. With so much opposition going into the next generation I can see this scenario faltering coming another 5 years(not to say the PS3 isnt going to sell or anything of the like, but the I seriously doubt it matching the staying power of the ps2 for several reasons).

cliffbo
01-02-2007, 07:52 PM
Im not sure if Im buying the "ps2" dev. scenario in the future. The ps2s success is amazing (to put it lightly), the reason we see continued support is the mass integration of the console. To continue with this concept the PS3 must reach comparable numbers with the ps2. I dont believe the ps3 is inspiring the sales of the ps2 (or at least that this scenario was intended), the ps2 is inspiring support for the ps2.

This entire philosophy could bottom out if a Sony console doesnt match the staying power of the ps2. With so much opposition going into the next generation I can see this scenario faltering coming another 5 years(not to say the PS3 isnt going to sell or anything of the like, but the I seriously doubt it matching the staying power of the ps2 for several reasons).

i'm not suggesting that the PS3 is inspiring the sales of PS2s although if you think about it there must be many people who have made do with a PS2 this christmas because they know those games will play on the PS3 when they eventually save up enough money to buy one.

everything is software wounding... 'beyond the box' how many more times do people have to read this to realise what Sony were saying 'BEYOND THE BOX' means software... software that has no sell by date only an ever decreasing price tag until, come PS4 becomes a free download...

a perpetual gaming market.

woundingchaney
01-02-2007, 08:00 PM
It's rather premature to predict Sony not building an extremely strong PS3 userbase just like they did with the PS2 based on the launch, it's not like the PS2 launched in much larger numbers either, it's the subsequent ramp-up and tremendously strong month-to-month sales that got the PS2 where it is now. In the long haul Sony's first-party line-up will help tremendously where it just wasn't as strong before.

Perhaps.

Although at this point I would say that its rather premature to believe Sony will match the ps2s sales either for 3 main reasons.

-price point: Its very possible the console doesnt have the ability to reduce in price at the rate the PS2 did.

-software: Games are simply going mp this gen. the PS3 will most likely not enjoy anywhere near the amount of exclusives the PS2 did.

-competition: This is also early to judge, but both MS and NIN are coming on very strong (MS in NA and Nin in Japan)

As you state it is early to judge any estimate of end of gen figures and this is only opinion.

lips
01-02-2007, 08:03 PM
I wonder if ps2 will see a shrink down to 65nm. I don't see why not, but I don't know if sony plans to reduce the price again on 8 year old technology.

cliffbo
01-02-2007, 08:04 PM
as each gen passes the difference graphically gets less and less, when the graphics are indistinguishable Sony will be in nirvana, with only AI and content the main reason for purchase. then people will see why online is the most important inclusion in Sony's arsenal.

woundingchaney
01-02-2007, 08:05 PM
i'm not suggesting that the PS3 is inspiring the sales of PS2s although if you think about it there must be many people who have made do with a PS2 this christmas because they know those games will play on the PS3 when they eventually save up enough money to buy one.

everything is software wounding... 'beyond the box' how many more times do people have to read this to realise what Sony were saying 'BEYOND THE BOX' means software... software that has no sell by date only an ever decreasing price tag until, come PS4 becomes a free download...

a perpetual gaming market.


I think we are on 2 different wave lengths here Cliff.

I agree about the scenario currently, Im simply doubting its future concept. Im not sure Sony will always be able to depend on existing hardware or software to support and maintain its next gen endeavors.

cliffbo
01-02-2007, 08:13 PM
I think we are on 2 different wave lengths here Cliff.

I agree about the scenario currently, Im simply doubting its future concept. Im not sure Sony will always be able to depend on existing hardware or software to support and maintain its next gen endeavors.

i can see a complete correlation between our arguments wounding. its one thing arguing that it may not work (which is possible of course) but its another discussing the plan itself. just because the plan may not work it does not stop anyone discussing the merits of it... happy new year by the way.

woundingchaney
01-02-2007, 08:18 PM
i can see a complete correlation between our arguments wounding. its one thing arguing that it may not work (which is possible of course) but its another discussing the plan itself. just because the plan may not work it does not stop anyone discussing the merits of it... happy new year by the way.

Well I would say that the relative future of any plan would affect the merits of the plan's integrity.

After all this "plan" we are speaking of is simply the current situation its not as if Sony isnt a flexible company (as to say they could readily change scenarios if presented with different a situation in the future).

Applefiend
01-02-2007, 08:21 PM
<*Captain Obvious flys in*>

Model for success: More AAA games you can't get anywhere else, costs less, better advertising. :)

Say Mr Sony, what are you doing all day?

Why, developing exclusive 1st party games, cost reducing the PS3, working on advertising. :)

cliffbo
01-02-2007, 08:24 PM
<*Captain Obvious flys in*>

Model for success: More AAA games you can't get anywhere else, costs less, better advertising. :)

yes thats a plan to get more PS3 out there, what i'm interested in is the bigger picture.

this is what i posted a long time ago:

having sold my PS2 because of financial difficulties, i now reflect on that decision and regret it, but as i'm saving for a PS3 i'm unlikely to buy a PS2 again; however, there are a few games coming to the PS2 that i must have: GoW2 and FF being the main contenders, DQ and KH coming in a close second. i will buy these games to play on my PS3 without a doubt and i was wondering if any one else has a similar view. of course there will be improvements in the clarity of the picture and upgraded resolutions as extra incentives.

i would suggest that one of the reasons that a lot of developers are still producing AAA titles for the PS2 is because they realise that (given the PS1 games that are going to be downloadable for the PSP) there will eventually be a market for there PS2 games to be downloadable for the PS3 or even the PSP2.

from my view point i can see that Sony are creating a perpetual development environment where developers will no longer feel its a waste of time and effort to create AAA titles for the older machine because the lifecyle of their games will eventually transcend the console they are on.

gozirah
01-03-2007, 07:26 AM
There are always new IP's to be made. Sony's in a pretty good position for that.

I can't think of any reason why the PS3 would not drop in price as much as the PS2. Blue diodes are new and different, but they aren't going out of style. Wide support for them and for cell suggests economies of scale will reduce price for such components overall. Hard drives, cheaper by the second. House elf labor: cheap cheap cheap. The real question is the rate that the PS3 can demonstrate its edge over competition while Sony reduces the cost of manufacturing.

Garfunkel
01-03-2007, 09:15 AM
Ps3 will drop price very quickly, so did the ps2 but it had less competition then the ps3.