Copied PS3 games now playable? Paradox claims to have found exploit.

[Sephiroth_VII]

Can a backup be played on the PS3? Yes, says Paradox, an Internet release group. Apparently, there's an exploit. Here's what's making the rounds on the Internet:

| cOMPANY : SCEI | rELEASE DATE : 27 Dec 2006 |
| sYSTEM : PlayStation 3 | sIZE : 120 x 100mb |
| tYPE : Racing | vIDEO MODE : NTSC/JAP |
| sUPPLIER : Huey Lewis | cRACKER : Wireless B/G? |
| mEDIA : BLU-RAY | pLAYABLE : Yes they are |

| sPECIAL nOTE: |
| |
| Happy new year to all members who helped in the past and present! |
| And a question to all, is there a bug in the system software from |
| the playStation 3(R) Yes there is Nothing to add more.. |

What does this mean? Paradox has released a game image (ISO) of Motorstorm (Japanese) and in the NFO file, they say the game image is playable. And that's not the only thing that's making the hacks-and-exploits community smile: earlier, Paradox also said that the first sectors from a PS3 image (sector 0 to 20) are special and may be the decryption keys for the executables.

We ask the same question as the news source for this article: "Could the PS3 be exploited already?" Is that good news or bad news - I mean, it's good news for a lot of gamers, but is that good news for Sony? What's going to happen next?

Source (http://ps3.qj.net/PS3-ISO-backup-playable-thanks-to-exploit-/pg/49/aid/77633) & Original Source (http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=13068)

It should be noted that Paradox is a real group, who has also cracked the Wii.

EDIT: I found the original forum post which contains a link to the .nfo. Here (http://www.ps3news.com/forums/site-news/motorstorm-jap-ps3-released-ps3-exploited-45144.html#post137646).
Update: In unrelated news, another BIG milestone has been passed today as HD DVD Encryption has been hacked! BackupHDDVD is a tool to decrypt an AACS-protected movie that you own, so you can play it back later using HDDVD player software. Will Blu-ray follow next, as it uses AACS as the primary security layer... or so we hear!

Once again the GODS @ Paradox have released another PS3 iSO dump as follows: MotorStorm_JAP_PS3-PARADOX and from the NFO File comes the following hints today:
| cOMPANY : SCEI | rELEASE DATE : 27 Dec 2006 |
| sYSTEM : PlayStation 3 | sIZE : 120 x 100mb |
| tYPE : Racing | vIDEO MODE : NTSC/JAP |
| sUPPLIER : Huey Lewis | cRACKER : Wireless B/G? |
| mEDIA : BLU-RAY | pLAYABLE : Yes they are http://www.ps3news.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif |
And also the following interesting note:

| sPECIAL nOTE: |
| |
| Happy new year to all members who helped in the past and present! |
| And a question to all, is there a bug in the system software from |
| the playStation 3(R) Yes there is http://www.ps3news.com/forums/images/smilies/icon67.gif Nothing to add more.. |

[Garfunkel]

+rep, i wished i had info on how (if) they cracked it.

[xbdestroya]

Oh Paradox is very real, but to my knowledge there's nothing tangible to back-up these 'hintings' as they apply to PS3 games. Seriously, it would just have to come down to a test of their ISO. I heard about this yesterday, but there just hasn't been as much information released as you would expect if this were the real deal. I mean, if this were real it should be *the* talk of scene forums everywhere.

[Matt]

If it doesn't happen now, it's bound to happen at some point.

[Sephiroth_VII]

Oh Paradox is very real, but to my knowledge there's nothing tangible to back-up these 'hintings' as they apply to PS3 games. Seriously, it would just have to come down to a test of their ISO. I heard about this yesterday, but there just hasn't been as much information released as you would expect if this were the real deal.
Not yet, no, but Paradox are very experienced, and they're almost always the first to find a way to use new exploits.

So, while this might just be a test, like Hello World on PSP, I think they'll get it working pretty soon.
Anyway, Sony will probably fix this with a FW update, if possible.

[jaxmkii]

Hopefully they did not!

[xbdestroya]

Not yet, no, but Paradox are very experienced, and they're almost always the first to find a way to use new exploits.

So, while this might just be a test, like Hello World on PSP, I think they'll get it working pretty soon.
Anyway, Sony will probably fix this with a FW update, if possible.

Hmmm... I'm a big Paradox fan also, but I'm just going to have to see it in action to believe it. I mean obviously yes, it would result in a firmware upgrade war, but that said I would just be genuinely surprised if we were at that point already.

[Garfunkel]

Not yet, no, but Paradox are very experienced, and they're almost always the first to find a way to use new exploits.

So, while this might just be a test, like Hello World on PSP, I think they'll get it working pretty soon.
Anyway, Sony will probably fix this with a FW update, if possible.

Paradox are indeed very skilled and if anyone can do it they will, Sony will probably fix this in the march update but then paradox will just hack the patch and it will end up in a painful loop.

This happened slightly earlier then i was predicting, i thought a hack would have been worked out in time for the PAL launch.

[jaxmkii]

just remember guys stealing from the devs means shitty games for all...

[frosty]

Sony would just update the firmware to fix it, then require that people get the update to play new games or to get online. They could bundle the update onto the games themselves for those without a net connection.

[gnznroses]

hmm, what happened to the good ole days of nfo files where they actually told you how to install/use what they were releasing... i mean c'mon, you can't make a claim like this and then not say how it's done...


| Happy new year to all members who helped in the past and present! |
| And a question to all, is there a bug in the system software from |
| the playStation 3(R) Yes there is Nothing to add more..
eh, just a lil bit more....

[vdo]

Sony would just update the firmware to fix it, then require that people get the update to play new games or to get online. They could bundle the update onto the games themselves for those without a net connection.

I don't really know much about how this hacking stuff works, but on PSP you always hear about them downgrading to a certain OS version and then upgrading from there.

Now that they have found a starting point, can they do something similar with the PS3? i.e. no matter what Sony puts out, they downgrade to the version they hacked and then upgrade themselves using their code? Or is there something different about PS3 than PSP that would prevent the same tactics from working? Even now PSP was just hacked to its 3.XX release and they allow PS1 games to be played on it. How come Sony can't use firmware to stop PSP hacking but would be able to use it to stop PS3 hacking? Maybe Cell's security?

[Garfunkel]

Sony would just update the firmware to fix it, then require that people get the update to play new games or to get online. They could bundle the update onto the games themselves for those without a net connection.

yeah but then we would just hack it again.

[frosty]

and sony could update again a week later. they're willing to fight for their buck.

[lips]

yawn, let me know when I can run games from my 500 gig usb drive. That would be cheap and easy. Remember the rush to get moded ps2s and xboxes? But so many people were burned by dead systems, I don't think people were ever as excited for modded xbox 360s. People will probably be even less excited to mod a ps3 then swap 8 dvds to play one stupid game. lol.

[Smokey]

i will never buy a pirated game for PS3 as jamixi has said. from ps2 onwards its the real deal for me.

[gibmonster]

I will never think of modding a PS3 once I get one. It's such an engineering achievement that I will not let some backyard engineer anywhere near it. I'm sure that the games being region free will help.

[LiquidEagle]

I blame hackers/piracy for the fact that honest customers have to put up with crap like Steam's authentication and requirement to be connected to the internet to play Half-Life 2.

:'(

[VG Aficionado]

In the end, these guys just hurt all honest gamers indeed, even if they haven't succeeded with PS3 yet. Games could be cheaper, yes, but these guys are stealing them, no matter how you consider it.

On another note: MotorStorm = 12 GB. Interesting.

[frosty]

well, I don't see a steam-like issue with PS3, as all new games could have anti-piracy firmware updates built in.

[False_Messiah]

I dont believe in this Paradox claim. You just download, burn and play? No mods or hacks like in X360?

Wii already cracked? didnt know that...

[Garfunkel]

I dont believe in this Paradox claim. You just download, burn and play? No mods or hacks like in X360?

Wii already cracked? didnt know that...

I think you are underestimating paradox, i do not believe they already have cracked it but they are obviously getting their, these guys also cracked many consoles and such before.

I hate Steam, but i do agree, piracy is the reason we have this shit forced upon us.

[Sypher]

Kinda defeats the point when you'd have to burn them across 5+ DVDs.

BTW do PS3 games carry HDCP protection?

[Z]

there may be initial works in this like making an ISO of a BD game or move (Talidaga Nights had an ISO image made and now MotorStorm). but keep in mind that if they want to make playble backups accessible, they have to first make it happen, then make a simpler non-geeky way of doing it. rememeber the initial X2 game hacks? they took an effort to make. then they came to a muh simpler method now.

the thing that would interest me is when and how they can make an actual hardware mod chip. modchips are much better and flexible than software mods. I am not about to give up my PSN game play just have this trick pony.
look at PSP, there are online issues if you are using a software mod. there is a modchip for it but I haven't tried it. there is also a multiple modchips for X2 that the makers claim you can even play LIVE with your backup games.

in any case, give it time. PSP took a little time from the first game ISO appeared on the net (of the Japanese Wipeout) till the actual first functional mod released. you also remember that the first mods needed a little attention when applying them. look at what we have now with the new DevHooks and Chaos Zeros very friendly installation methods. that is what i would call plug and play.

[Applefiend]

Kinda defeats the point when you'd have to burn them across 5+ DVDs.

BTW do PS3 games carry HDCP protection?

HDCP is an encryption standard for digital data in video interfaces, not a thing to stop you copying disks. Blu Ray uses AACS encryption.

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/28/0259244

Which has just been cracked.

[Sephiroth_VII]

I don't really know much about how this hacking stuff works, but on PSP you always hear about them downgrading to a certain OS version and then upgrading from there.

Now that they have found a starting point, can they do something similar with the PS3? i.e. no matter what Sony puts out, they downgrade to the version they hacked and then upgrade themselves using their code? Or is there something different about PS3 than PSP that would prevent the same tactics from working? Even now PSP was just hacked to its 3.XX release and they allow PS1 games to be played on it. How come Sony can't use firmware to stop PSP hacking but would be able to use it to stop PS3 hacking? Maybe Cell's security?
Well, for PS3, you'll need to have the latest firmware version to access the PSN, so the only way around that is emulating it. This is already possible on PSP up to FW 3.02.
and sony could update again a week later. they're willing to fight for their buck.

Actually, Sony seems to have given up onfighting the PSP hackers.


the thing that would interest me is when and how they can make an actual hardware mod chip. modchips are much better and flexible than software mods. I am not about to give up my PSN game play just have this trick pony.
look at PSP, there are online issues if you are using a software mod. there is a modchip for it but I haven't tried it. there is also a multiple modchips for X2 that the makers claim you can even play LIVE with your backup games.
Nope, I'm using custom FW 3.02 OE-B, and it works great.

[jaxmkii]

On another note: MotorStorm = 12 GB. Interesting.
:rockon: BUt but but... DVDs are all we need this gen:tardbang:

[LiquidEagle]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Japanese MotorStorm is 12 GB, since it's rather featureless, but I think we'll get a larger disc here in the states & Europe :)

[VG Aficionado]

:rockon: BUt but but... DVDs are all we need this gen:tardbang:I wouldn't be surprised if the Japanese MotorStorm is 12 GB, since it's rather featureless, but I think we'll get a larger disc here in the states & Europe :):evillaugh

[Fazares]

it will be hacked...oh yes....but not this early....i remember there was quite a bunch of months between the first rippable iso and a working cracked xbox360 reading it....

[cliffbo]

+rep, i wished i had info on how (if) they cracked it.

if we could all do that then wave the PS3 goodbye fella. i would imagine that every download from now on will make it more difficult to accomplish what paradox has.

[frosty]

Actually HDCP is built into HDMI and has nothing to do with the BD disc itself. The disc has it's own set of copy protection methods, AACS included. Only one of these has yet to be cracked.

[Red_Eyes]

Where's the solid proof? Where's the solid proof?

[EvilTaru]

Hopefully these guys get shut down soon and put in jail, this piracy crap has to stop.

[jaxmkii]

Hopefully these guys get shut down soon and put in jail, this piracy crap has to stop.
QFT

[Max@GC]

Some screens of the real nfo:



http://img165.imagevenue.com/loc340/th_18896_hack1_122_340lo.jpg (http://img165.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=18896_hack1_122_340lo.jpg)http://img154.imagevenue.com/loc523/th_18901_hack2_122_523lo.jpg (http://img154.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=18901_hack2_122_523lo.jpg)http://img28.imagevenue.com/loc590/th_18906_hack3_122_590lo.jpg (http://img28.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=18906_hack3_122_590lo.jpg)

http://img127.imagevenue.com/loc469/th_19088_hack4group_122_469lo.jpg (http://img127.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=19088_hack4group_122_469lo.jpg)

[Sephiroth_VII]

Great find, +rep.

A link would be nice, though.

[Garfunkel]

We need a link! +rep

HDCP has nothing to do with the games, it is a copy protection method used with HDMI to restrict display on a non-HDCP compliant devices.

[Sephiroth_VII]

I can give you a link to Paradox's website (http://www.paradogs.com).

[Garfunkel]

I can give you a link to Paradox's website (http://www.paradogs.com).

LOL, nah, i should have quoted Max@GC

[gnznroses]

i'll never chip my ps3. the chip for my ps2 made it blow a fuse which i had to fix. my fliptop + swapmagic works fine tho. that's the only way i'd mod my ps3 with something similar to that. easy to undo, no harm done.

[frosty]

Plus a system update could brick it.

[cliffbo]

Plus a system update could brick it.

exactly! i know of people who will not update their system on the PSP for that very reason.

[jaxmkii]

Cliff Could you please link me to that article in your sig?!?...

[cliffbo]

Cliff Could you please link me to that article in your sig?!?...

its my own theory jax. its not an article, its speculation based on a variety of quotes. how do you futureproof games so that all that hard work is not lost or forgotten. release a patch that allows games like Motorstorm and RFOM to run in 1080p. is it impossible? i don't think so. textures could already be there on the disk for 1080p, they are just waiting for the patch to be released and AI could easily be updated. my thinking is that if a dev is clever enough and only uses 4 spes then that surely leaves the possibility of a patch using other spes to enhance the game beyond its original build (baring in mind that they run individually)

[satriales]

I don't see many developers using patches to improve a game other than to fix bugs. They would need some financial incentive to do so and I can't see many people willing to pay for a patch even if it does add new features.

I guess maybe they could make Motorstorm 1.5 and charge a small amount for it. It would use alot of existing data from the disc, but add new features, levels, vehicles that are downloaded as an update. It woud need to be a significant update though otherwise people aren't going to buy it.

[Z]

Plus a system update could brick it.
hardware modding has a better chance in facing that than pure software modding. some modchips have an on/off switch so that you can turn it off and go online for example. you can turn it back on to supports any 'unsupported' media (like how they could make Box play DVD movies without the need of the remote add on).

but I don't know for how long any single method could hold on. it seems that modchip approaches become obsolete in a short time if you want to go online. if you are off line, than you can keep them for much longer (like what we are doing with PSP).

[Rai]

in time it will be hacked like all consoles!

[xbdestroya]

Ok so everything else on the theorization side aside... do we know if Paradox has actually cracked anything or not?

[Sephiroth_VII]

...nope

[Z]

Ok so everything else on the theorization side aside... do we know if Paradox has actually cracked anything or not?
preliminary work could pop up here and there, but as soon as something 'real' happens expect the news to be everywhere. till then, it may be little progress notes.in time it will be hacked like all consoles!
'duh' comment of the week. we are interested in what the possible methods used in achieving this inevitable goal and what sacrifices would be made.

[Garfunkel]

Ok so everything else on the theorization side aside... do we know if Paradox has actually cracked anything or not?

No. But it will happen very soon IMO.

[yoshaw]

Whoops! 3 more added to their hit list.

http://xs411.xs.to/xs411/07013/ps3-images-oops.jpg

They don't seem to be really hitting the BD sweetspot(25GB) so if Booster(the psp hacker) or someone like him puts up an ISO loader for PS3. I suppose these measly 6-8GB images wouldn't really hamper that 20GB PS3 let alone a 60GB model, eh.

In anycase, reminds me of the PSP ordeal. No matter how many software updates Sony's tried. It never works for long. I think their latest 3.03fw for psp is already broken.

[Z]

They don't seem to be really hitting the BD sweetspot(25GB)
I don't think anyone in their right mind thought PS3 games will be anywhere near 25G.
In anycase, reminds me of the PSP ordeal. No matter how many software updates Sony's tried. It never works for long.
but you do have a main disadvantage: no online play. for those who don't have broadband or don't care for online, that's not a problem. but for someone like me, online is a huge part of the PS3 experience. if I can't use online, it feels like I am only playing a souped up PS2. I want playable demos, PSN gaming, unified rankings, video, TV and music downloads, universal multiple chat options, built in Wi-Fi PSOne and PS2 full game downloads, etc.
and best of all, it's all completely free!

that last line is what really gets in the way of me getting into LIVE now. if both were free or both were charge base, I would have checked out both of them. but 'free' is the strongest word in marketing and the most attractive.

anyway, I am interested in the approaches of trying to crack PS3 and what disadvantages it brings with it.

PS. is it just me or has Paradox went silent for a long time? they used to be everywhere during the PSOne era. I don't remember them at all on the PSP front. maybe they used a different name or something?

[Zer0-Sum]

I have been looking at this thread for a while now with disgust. Why? Because pirating games for PS3 is the last thing any Sony fan needs to do to support PS3 being a successful platform in the console war. Nuff said.....buy your games, don't steal them.

[gibmonster]

I have been looking at this thread for a while now with disgust. Why? Because pirating games for PS3 is the last thing any Sony fan needs to do to support PS3 being a successful platform in the console war. Nuff said.....buy your games, don't steal them.

True. Unfortunatly we live in a spoilt world where there are people who must have every single game that comes out instantly so they rent or download stuff they dont need. That's pretty disgusting.

[Z]

I have been looking at this thread for a while now with disgust. Why? Because pirating games for PS3 is the last thing any Sony fan needs to do to support PS3 being a successful platform in the console war. Nuff said.....buy your games, don't steal them.
who said anything about supporting piracy?
or do you think our PSP homebrew threads are for supporting piracy as well?

[dockthepod]

This thread *is* about piracy.

PS3 already supports homebrew via linux.

[Garfunkel]

there is a fine line between piracy and homebrew.

many consider file sharing piracy but it's just basically like sharing biscuits at a party

[rotorhead]

many consider file sharing piracy but it's just basically like sharing biscuits at a party

Hmmm not really. In you somewhat dillusional mind you might be able to rationalise file-sharing as the same as sharing biscuits.

However, it is more like a thief stealing your lunch money everyday.
While I don't agree with the damages that the RIAA trying to get out of people caught for this. I consider the people who download illegal copies of songs or games a bit like rich drug users. They don't really need to do it but they don't really hurt anyone. It is still a crime.

[jaxmkii]

I don't see many developers using patches to improve a game other than to fix bugs. They would need some financial incentive to do so and I can't see many people willing to pay for a patch even if it does add new features.

I guess maybe they could make Motorstorm 1.5 and charge a small amount for it. It would use alot of existing data from the disc, but add new features, levels, vehicles that are downloaded as an update. It woud need to be a significant update though otherwise people aren't going to buy it.

the incentive would be to respur sales.

[yoshaw]

I don't think anyone in their right mind thought PS3 games will be anywhere near 25G.

Ahh, I see where you misunderstood me. Bit late but allow me to re-phrase :)

" They don't seem to be really hitting the BD sweetspot(25GB) anytime soon."

^Hope that clears up the point I had in mind with my earlier post :cheers:

but you do have a main disadvantage: no online play. for those who don't have broadband or don't care for online, that's not a problem. but for someone like me, online is a huge part of the PS3 experience. if I can't use online, it feels like I am only playing a souped up PS2. I want playable demos, PSN gaming, unified rankings, video, TV and music downloads, universal multiple chat options, built in Wi-Fi PSOne and PS2 full game downloads, etc.
and best of all, it's all completely free!


There have been ways to access online(or play online games) on PSP. Recently, via several psp forums, it's been as simple as just booting up your PSP and going online via the in-built browser(or games). No questions asked!

I'd imagine the same would be the case with PS3 if or whenever the firmware gets exploited. Obviously, It'll be a cat/mouse (Sony/Hackers) race much like the psp now.

[Z]

" They don't seem to be really hitting the BD sweetspot(25GB) anytime soon."
I think PS3 games will only double in size of what they usually are now at the most. that's around 13G by the time PS4 launches. and I still think that upping the resolution to 1080p will be the main space user here. I imagine larger games like RPG running natively on 1080p for everything should be the bigger game sizes. other than that, I don't see much size jump. uncompressed sound may take a chunk of that as well.

I wonder how much a fully 1080p movie with 7.1 uncompressed surround sound would usually be in size?

[Z]

I consider the people who download illegal copies of songs or games...
the bold part is the main focus here. avoid that and your P2P activity is perfectly fine. it depends on how you use something.

[yoshaw]

[/Offtopic]

Oye Oye, I didn't pay attention to posts after Z's reply but god dammit.

Let this thread not be a place to flame your mouth against people who're pirates. There are other places where you can vent that anger but right here in this thread is about whether these games have become playable yet or not and the subsequent relation of it with the supposed exploit from someone named Paradox.


I have been looking at this thread for a while now with disgust. Why? Because pirating games for PS3 is the last thing any Sony fan needs to do to support PS3 being a successful platform in the console war. Nuff said.....buy your games, don't steal them.

Let us not indirectly accuse anyone of being a pirate. Piracy is bad without a doubt but this is not the place to point fingers whether at someone in particular or just in the air cause one wanted to.

[Garfunkel]

Hmmm not really. In you somewhat dillusional mind you might be able to rationalise file-sharing as the same as sharing biscuits.

However, it is more like a thief stealing your lunch money everyday.
While I don't agree with the damages that the RIAA trying to get out of people caught for this. I consider the people who download illegal copies of songs or games a bit like rich drug users. They don't really need to do it but they don't really hurt anyone. It is still a crime.

Well, there is no difference between file sharing and ripping a cd and letting my mother listen to it.

[rotorhead]

You are right there is no difference they are both forms of copyright theft.

If you had ripped the CD and re-encoded it to MP3 for play by yourself on your portable music device then this would have been fine.

Ripping it and making copy and giving it to your mother while keeping and listening to the original is still theft.

You may have decided it is a crime you want to commit but it is still crime.

You are making copies of something and distrubuting it. You do not have permission to do that under the original purchase agreement.

Would you copy a $10 bill and give the copy to your mother?

[LadNagy]

Rotorhead is correct. It's the same way with movies. A personal backup or copy is alright, but the minute it leaves your hands to go to someone else, that's illegal.

[Leedogg]

offtopic: Yoshaw its nice to see you back buddy!

[venomv]

Really this thread isn't about piracy per-se, people could use this to make legal back-ups. Even though most people probably will use it illegally if true..........

[rotorhead]

If it is for legal back up why distribute the ISOs?

[venomv]

I don't think that should be happening, but people could use the same methods (if they even work yet) to create ligit copies.

[rotorhead]

I have never needed a legit backup of a game in my 10 years of PSX playing, then again I've never used one of my game disks as a coaster or a frisbee.
I have never had one of my consoles ruin a game disk either for which I'm greatful. However, if it did I would replace the console and complain to Sony about the damaged disk. I would not continue shoving disks into it.

I believe that users should have the ability to make a legit backup, however too many people believe sharing electronic copies online is like sharing biscuits.

paradox probably believe they are doing everyone a favour. When in fact they are not. If you can't afford a legit copy then do as I do wait 12 months and pick up the Greatest hit edition. Sadly, too many people have the morals of an alley cat and even less patience.

I personally hope that Paradox fail in there endeavours or better yet end up infront of a federal judge.

[venomv]

Well personally I would have done good to have back-up's of my PS1 games, fortunatly none of my PS2 games have ever died on me, though.


I personally hope that Paradox fail in there endeavours or bet yet end up infront of federal judge.

Me too, but that isn't gonna happen, someone will get it right, and then Sony will probably hire them....

[pollux]

There have been ways to access online(or play online games) on PSP. Recently, via several psp forums, it's been as simple as just booting up your PSP and going online via the in-built browser(or games). No questions asked!

I'd imagine the same would be the case with PS3 if or whenever the firmware gets exploited. Obviously, It'll be a cat/mouse (Sony/Hackers) race much like the psp now.
There is one MAJOR difference with PSP online though, PS3 requires you to login to your account, also games receive updates, so you could imagine that a game, or the system itself detects that you have the wrong firmware (does a CRC check or something) and then Sony identification servers could ban your MAC (or IP) address for a month or forever and you won't be able to play online anymore.

Anyway about the PSP, there is a simple way to restrict online gaming to game buyers: just include a unique limited serial in the game box, that you'll have to type once when you try to play online for the first time, similar to half-life, starcraft and so on...

[Chrome]

Some of the best Devs. have a been part of the black arts, we will always have piracy, so the industry just tries to live with it.
People will go to any lengths in order to copy a piece of software, from pirated arcade boards, 8-bit ROM Cartridges to pirated CD's/DVD's nothing has changed and ever will.

Questions are going to be raised about Nintendo's so called protection from hackers. Some console makers make it easier than others, but they all know that its a matter of time before their console's are busted wide open.
Sometimes a console being hacked see's all kinds of conspiracy theories, eg. a certain console manufacturer leaked documents of its hard to break console or why is a certain parts of a console so weak (PC DVDROM Drive) when the onboard protection is very advanced. Those questions will never be awknowledged or answered.
The dark and the light goes hand in hand.

[SS]

Would you copy a $10 bill and give the copy to your mother?

Now, I'm not supporting or condemning software piracy, (I don't think this is the time or place for an in depth discussion on this) but this example doesn't quite make sense.. are you saying it's alright to make a copy of a $10 bill as long as it's for your personal use? Software (as well as other electronic content) is a different medium, and thus should be treated so...

more on-topic:
I haven't followed the new generation of consoles' piracy front, about how far along are they in cracking the systems? (Unless it's against the rules to talk about that; if so, just ignore the question...)

[Zer0-Sum]

who said anything about supporting piracy?
or do you think our PSP homebrew threads are for supporting piracy as well?

The title of the thread....

Copied PS3 games now playable? Paradox claims to have found exploit.

[rotorhead]

Now, I'm not supporting or condemning software piracy, (I don't think this is the time or place for an in depth discussion on this) but this example doesn't quite make sense.. are you saying it's alright to make a copy of a $10 bill as long as it's for your personal use? Software (as well as other electronic content) is a different medium, and thus should be treated so...

more on-topic:
I haven't followed the new generation of consoles' piracy front, about how far along are they in cracking the systems? (Unless it's against the rules to talk about that; if so, just ignore the question...)

You are quite right however the analogy was not to highlight personal usage rights but rather a representation of the monatory theft involved. $10 being the closest value to a music CD. The only difference between copying money and electronic media is that government bring the full force of the criminal legal system against forgers. Criminal law has a hard time punishing online distribution of pirated media when it is done for no financial gain. That is why civil courts are used.

However, there is a financial lose to games companies and other media companies from illegal copying of there product. Is it the full value of the media being copied probably not because not everyone would purchase the legit copy if the pirated version was not available.

Being a software developer I am well aware of the money involved in developing a product. My salary is paid from the sales of our product. Pirating costs jobs and further development.

[Zer0-Sum]

^ True that my good man. I am graduating soon and am looking to get into the industry. I sure would not want a game I worked stolen.

[gnznroses]

since we're off topic maybe it should be split into another thread.
i am a software developer as well and my programs have certainly been pirated in the past. there's nothing i can do about it either. i've tried. but it's not like i'm not on the other side of the fence as well. for the most part, most people only pirate what they wouldn't/couldn't buy in the first place. at least that's how it starts. then it's just so easy it's tempting to steal everything. but, i'm of the opinion that it's the publishers that are partly to blame. if i had to buy every single program that i need... well, i couldn't. and most apps, even basic ones are $30-40, with others costing hundreds. i also look at it, in the pc realm, that you can use freeware versions of graphics apps, unzip apps, cd burning apps, spyware cleaners, etc, etc, but if you're gonna do that instead of buying, then you might as well just use pirated copies cause they're not losing business. you can't count a customer you never had as a lost customer. same deal with music, movies, and games as well. i have 300+ music cds. let's say i buy each one at only $12, that's $3600. and some ps2 games you may never want to buy but you'll kill a lil time playing them if you're bored. no lost money to the developer.

[Garfunkel]

there is a solution to all of this piracy, invest in open source ;)

[Red_Eyes]

An open souce PS3 game? Open Source MGS4? Sounds interesting.

[Stelio]

Hopefully these guys get shut down soon and put in jail, this piracy crap has to stop.

I agree!

Although I have installed cracked apps before, I have gone on to purchase later versions of them. I treat them as demos, if I like, I buy...

AND...they are not cheap.

Examples...used copy of Cubase SX...purchased Cubase 4 (many other examples as well). I believe that if there is something that you are truly passionate about, you are willing to make the monetary investments necessary and continue support for the devs.

The same can be said about games (imo). Cracked games will not give you online and applications will not give you tech support, among other things. After all, you get what you pay for...

- STELIO

[Sephiroth_VII]

^I agree with your philosophy in every case, except Photoshop CS2. I'm not willing to shell out that amount of money for one program...

[LiquidEagle]

Well if you're a student you can get insane discounts on stuff like Photoshop, but yeah, it's still a pretty penny when you're a student!

I use cracked versions of Photoshop & Premiere pro & stuff, but that stuff is so expensive I would never buy it -- I never could buy it. Adobe isn't losing a customer from me...

Games aren't expensive at all, and if they are expensive or on the rise, it's thanks in part to piracy. People who steal games are complaining about the higher price when they're one of the very things that perpetuates the higher prices, so it just goes in this endless loop. The industry is already hurting with the rental business, so buy the game, rent it, borrow it, or play it at a store -- don't f***ing steal.

[Garfunkel]

i use many cracked apps, i have never purchased a software app besides from games,

but in the case of premiere or PS, i would never be able to buy them anyway, cost me 9.5 arms and 14.3 legs.

[/admittance]

[frosty]

Premiere sucks anyway, you can get Vegas for 2.2 arms.

[Garfunkel]

tried it, didn't like it too much.

[GD|eNSo]

You know, I love it when people come to the defense and rescue of these poor, poor developers working in those poor slave like conditions and enviroment to bring us measly little game to play with.

What about the end users? What happens when a these davs tell and promote you one think and bring out re-hash garbage? Do you get you money back then? Ofcourse not, they, and everyone joined in on the process are out there enjoying the money you just handed over to them, but there you are sitting unsatisfied with nothing more then a useless game.

You have to look at the real picture here, and see who the real losers are in this situation.