I'm sick and tired of the Zelda crap now...

[Ivory_Soul]

Ok I know Twilight Princess is really good but I am SOOOO sick and tired of all the fanboys screaming that Zelda is the best game ever made ZOMGSH!!!##!!1!!11 BBQ FTW21!#!! PWN!!!3!!!!...its REALLY getting on my nerves...and this is what drew the last straw for me. Take a look at GameRevolution's mailbag and the reader got pissed at GR for making Okami game of the year

what the hell is wrong with you people!!!!!!!!!Okami??!!!!!!!!!!!!as the best game of 2006!!!!!!i have never been disappointed with GR till now,i was pissed at IGN for the same reason,i mean come on!!!!!!!!do you guys have a reason to hate Nintendo?!!!!!The Legend of Zelda:Twilight Princess should have been #1,but no,its Okami,Zelda is better than Okami!!!!What was the first RPG???Zelda.What brought RPGs into 3D???Zelda.What is one of the two biggest franchises ever???Zelda.Not Okami,Zelda and you guys should be ashamed,but its not like you care,but i just wanted to let you know how i feel.

Ok Zelda is OLD REHASHED STUFF with new content...Okami is NEW AND INNOVATIVE some of you might have heard me say this in the GameSpot's 2006 Awards thread. Zelda did earn a few awards but there were SOO many great NEW and INNOVATIVE games this year that it buried Zelda. Zelda also wasn't the first RPG and it didn't bring RPGs into the 3D this guy is a BLIND fan boy. Okami IMO is better then TP since it's new and does everything differently. TP isn't the best Zelda either. I hope SOMEONE out there agrees with me...everyone did the same thing when Halo 2 came out but Half-Life 2 won all the GotY awards. HL2 won 40 and Halo 2 was nominated for 50 but it only won 10.

Here are a few NEW and INNOVATIVE games that were good and came out last year and won over Zelda

Gears of War
Viva Pinata
Dead Rising
Dreamfall: The Longest Journey
Okami
Bully
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Elite Beat Agents

Those are some of the games for why Zelda didn't win GotY...nuf said.

[the poe collector]

I haven't played Okami yet, so I can't compare it to Twilight Princess. Okami might very well be better than TP. I will say that just because a game is new and innovative it doesn't automatically make it better than a game that executes it's formula to perfection.

The Legend of Zelda series is my favorite franchise and TP pretty much gave me everything I wanted from a Zelda game. It had an epic world, a bunch of dungeons, great boss battles, and the best story out of any Zelda game I've played. I kind of want to punch you in the throat for talking about Zelda, but I'd have to agree with you about the game feeling rehashed. Link has pretty much controlled the same for four games in a row and everything feels very familiar. I'm hoping with the next installment they can completely design the game around the controller from the ground up and take the series in a new direction.

[koten]

Zelda is the greatest franchise ever.

That is my oppinion. Respect it and I will respect yours.

[curryking1]

I think Zelda is one of the greatest gaming franchises of all time, and the quality of it's games are premium in every entry. I don't believe people have no reason to think the same as I do here, but again, I respect your opinion as well.

[Ivory_Soul]

Right I'm not saying Zelda sucks I'm just tired of all the stupid fanboyism...I've never heard of any games being so overrated and molested by fan boys more then Nintendo's games. TP is really good and I love it a lot so you can stop freaking out. Zelda is ONE of the greatest franchises because it was one of the first but it's not THE best there are equal to and greater ones out there. They just need to change the formula and stop adding things and stuff. All they do is update it to the current gen and it feels innovative to people but it's not really true. I think the next Zelda should be built from scratch then maybe...just MAYBE it'll win GotY in 07 or 08 or whenever they decide to make it.

I haven't played Okami yet, so I can't compare it to Twilight Princess. Okami might very well be better than TP. I will say that just because a game is new and innovative it doesn't automatically make it better than a game that executes it's formula to perfection.

True but I Okami is good and that's what makes it better and new Zelda is the same just fresh. It's just like Cola and all their new stuff. Same Cola just added flavors (i.e. vanilla, strawberry, extra carbonation and so forth.)

[Crosman]

I agree that Twilight Princess was not the game of the year. I also say the Twilight Princess is not the best of the series, by far not the best.

Zelda s probably the best franchise ever made but in reality Twilight Princess could of been better then everyone expected.

Even know I thought it was short and could use alot of work, gears of War would have been my pick.

Ivory has some good points.

[Chris]

I've got no problem with Zelda not winning GOTY, because really, it just comes down to preference anyway, I honestly would've picked Vegas. Although I do completely disagree with the "new and innovative" argument. I don't think that the fact that a game that is a new IP as opposed to a continuation of a franchise, thus keeping the same gameplay elements, should win just for that. The best game should win, period, regardless of how the game plays in relation to previous entries(if they exist).

[Ivory_Soul]

I agree to Chris but the game has to REALLY change the formula and REALLY break some serious ground like Vegas did. It's not even the same Rainbow Six we remember which is good. They took the greatness of it and made it next gen. I'm saying that so many old formulas are just slightly updated or something and it's not worth mentioning. If a new and innovative game comes out and just smashes everything like Okami and Gears of War and games like that then it's worth winning over than a game that changed an old formula, because if that happens then more developers will experiment more and we'll get more Okamis, and Psychonauts and Katamari Damacys. Of course we will always want peopel to re-define the old genres we love that's why we have Ubisoft ;-) Now of course it comes down to this new and innovative game or this genre defining game and that's when you have GotY runner ups and they both have the same potential to win. Like Vegas and Gears, they were evenly matched but for different reasons. After that it comes down to the persons opinion.

[koten]

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Zelda has millions upon millions of fans who eagerly await each new installment. There's no reason to change anything. Fans expect Zelda and when they get Zelda, they're happy. I see no reason to mess with the formula when people are still enjoying it.

[D3adcell]

Yeah that was really stupid comment that guy sent in. Zelda was not the first RPG, and not the first 3d rpg either. Zelda is a good game but just because it's zelda doesnt there is no game better then it.

[Applefiend]

I tend to think Mario is the best franchise ever by far...

Donkey Kong > SMB > SMB2 > SMB3 > SMW > SMW2 > Mario 64 > SMS > Mario Galaxy, doesn't get much better than that for depth and innovation.

Fight! :)

[Ivory_Soul]

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Still it would be nice if they changed it every so often that terminology can't go on forever you know. @ Apple I think Mario is kinda boring. It's good obviously and it's fun but I can't like get into it and stuff I just can't get into the Nintendo's frachises really I've played almost every one that's come out but I can't get into it I dunno why.

[Applefiend]

I've never quite got into Zelda but love Mario games to death, dunno why. I buy them, know they're great, but never quite get round to playing them, dunno why...

[SuperLuigiBros]

Although I havnt played Okami (I really want to) I keep hearing thats its very similar to Zelda. Every single thing i read about it mentions how its the ps2's Zelda and that alot of its the same. How can something like that be called innovative if its 'drawing so much inspiration' from another game?

Dont get me wrong, im not trying to pay out Okami for copying, I just want to point out that Zelda will always have to draw inspiration from the other Zelda games. If they change it, everyone will be pissed off. Look at Mario Sunshine. They added one little thing (the fludd) and so many people were pissed off. I still loved it though. If they changed Zelda so it didnt feel like a Zelda game you can bet your bottom dollar that critics and fans alike would be liek 'where the hell is our old Zelda?!?!?'

As for the GotY, I think Zelda should have gotten it, but I never played Okami so I cant say anything. If thats what they think then hooray. Not everyone agrees with it, just like not everyone has to agree with their reviews, or even like the same games as other people.

The message that the guy sent in is complete crap and hes obviously some punk kid, but it sort of seems like you (ivory_soul) are doing the same thing; defending your game when someone lashes out against it. Only youre not a dick about it like that guy.

[Ivory_Soul]

Well I also have facts to back myself up unlike he is. Everyone compares it to Zelda yes but IGN compared Gears of War to it and people compare every single FPS to Halo which isn't fair. I'm not saying "Don't compare it to Zelda that's bad" I'm just saying that each game should be it's own thing (ok not ALL games). Zelda deserved to be a runner up for GotY but I'm glad it didn't win in a way.

[TheGreenElf]

Theres fanboys and blind fanboys. Both get annoying...and personally, I don't think Twilight Princess is as good as people say (great, but for Zelda, that doesn't say quite enough)...however, I think Okami had taken a lot of what they did straight from Zelda.

[Generosity of God]

i'm going to say that Twilight Princess has you're regular Zelda style gameplay but with better story presentation and better graphics.

there are a few things that i find are missing: magic, fire/ice/light arrows, mirror shield.

the game also needs a harder difficulty. hardly died the first time through and had completed the story and found around 85% of the collectable items in under 50hours.

personally i find TP to be the most enjoyable zelda experience i had so far mainly because the presentation made my emotions so engrossed in the story. if judging by just how the game plays then i find it to be like the other zeldas. which would make it a little tiresome if i didnt feel anything for the story. but i did like the story and how it was told and that is why i think TP is an improvement over the other Zeldas.

now mind you i hadnt had the opportunity to play ALttP when it was new so it doesnt have any nostalgic value for me. it is a good game but the 3d zeldas have better story presentation which helps me to enjoy them more than the 2d zeldas.

as far as the series go it is definitely one of my favourites. i'd say tied first with Metroid. with resident evil third followed by mario kart and then mario. obviously its my opinion but that's how i rank them when i think about how much i enjoyed them.

[Ivory_Soul]

Well I'm just glad to see people here have brains and aren't blind wailing fan boys...you all have your good straight forward reasonable opinions.

[Lucent Beam]

now mind you i hadnt had the opportunity to play ALttP when it was new so it doesnt have any nostalgic value for me. it is a good game but the 3d zeldas have better story presentation which helps me to enjoy them more than the 2d zeldas.

Oh, I agree. I hadn't played ALttP until last spring (and I did so on GBA) and it felt so lifeless compared to the Zeldas for N64. Especially the weak boss fights.

I don't have much beef with people saying TP is the be-all-and-end-all because I haven't played it, but what I DO have a problem with is peolpe saying Ocarina of Time is the OMGZBESTGAMEEVAR!!! OoT was an amazing play, but once I played ALttP, I realized OoT was basically a 3D'ed expansion (first collect 3 gems, then save the seven sages *cough*maidens*cough* in the temples, and transport between two worlds). Majora's Mask broke ALttP/OoT's mold and people made fun of it.

ANYWAY, as for Okami, I keep hearing the same criticism from my circle of friends "It's great, but it's a watered down Zelda game." Guess I'll have to play it myself before I form any opinion on that statement.

[Ivory_Soul]

What does ALttp mean? Is that a new toilet paper brand? Sorry I'm Zelda illiterate. I think I need a hug...and not from Tingle. *stares at koten* don't even think about it.

[Lucent Beam]

A Link to the Past. SNES.

[Ivory_Soul]

Right that explains it...so it's not toilet paper. I think I played ALttp on GBC.

[Lucent Beam]

Right that explains it...so it's not toilet paper. I think I played ALttp on GBC.

You mean GBA?
GBC = Link's Awakening DX (or the Oracle games)

[Chris]

I agree to Chris but the game has to REALLY change the formula and REALLY break some serious ground like Vegas did. It's not even the same Rainbow Six we remember which is good. They took the greatness of it and made it next gen. I'm saying that so many old formulas are just slightly updated or something and it's not worth mentioning. If a new and innovative game comes out and just smashes everything like Okami and Gears of War and games like that then it's worth winning over than a game that changed an old formula, because if that happens then more developers will experiment more and we'll get more Okamis, and Psychonauts and Katamari Damacys. Of course we will always want peopel to re-define the old genres we love that's why we have Ubisoft ;-) Now of course it comes down to this new and innovative game or this genre defining game and that's when you have GotY runner ups and they both have the same potential to win. Like Vegas and Gears, they were evenly matched but for different reasons. After that it comes down to the persons opinion.

I agree that if a new and innovative game comes out, and it's just flat out better than the game that relies on the same formula from the past, it's should win. The best game should win, that's all that matters.

And I too hate how console FPS are compared to Halo....because I HATE Halo. GOLDENEYE FOR LIFE!!

[Phoenix]

With every popular franchise, there will be fanboys who consider any game in it the best in the world. For every Zelda fanboy, there are five Halo fanboys and two or three GTA fanboys. That's just how things work. While I do think they need to keep an open mind, Zelda is an excellent series with enough changed every game to keep it new while sticking to the old, successful formula and not tire it out. There's nothing wrong with loving every game made.

As for Okami, it wouldn't be here without Zelda. I love the game, the art style, the writing, and pretty much everything about it, but at the end of the day it's just another Zelda clone. A really, really good Zelda clone.

[Lets Gekiga In]

A Link to the Past.

[koten]

Oh, I agree. I hadn't played ALttP until last spring (and I did so on GBA) and it felt so lifeless compared to the Zeldas for N64. Especially the weak boss fights.

I don't have much beef with people saying TP is the be-all-and-end-all because I haven't played it, but what I DO have a problem with is peolpe saying Ocarina of Time is the OMGZBESTGAMEEVAR!!! OoT was an amazing play, but once I played ALttP, I realized OoT was basically a 3D'ed expansion (first collect 3 gems, then save the seven sages *cough*maidens*cough* in the temples, and transport between two worlds). Majora's Mask broke ALttP/OoT's mold and people made fun of it.

ANYWAY, as for Okami, I keep hearing the same criticism from my circle of friends "It's great, but it's a watered down Zelda game." Guess I'll have to play it myself before I form any opinion on that statement.See, that's what pissed me off. Majora's Mask was my favorit Zelda for a solid 5 years. It looked like Zelda, it played like Zelda and it felt like Zelda, but ta the same time, it had a lot of interesting new aspects, such as the masks, transphormations and the time travel.

Twilight Princess managed to dethrone MM for 2 simple reasons. One, the story was increadibly engrossing. I couldn't stop playing because I NEEDED to know what was next. Two was that the world was so massive and well designed. You could just stand around and drink in the entire world.

[Delirious]

Well IMO TP is the best game out there right now as far as any of the consoles go. This is just from my standpoint though as I do not like FPS games like GOW and Resistance and the like. If GOW had been on Wii, I still wouldnt have bought it cause I just dont like that kind of game. It all really depends alot on what you like as to which game series' you become a "fanboy" of. Theres no need to run down games because of this though.

[Xer0]

See, this is why Nintendo fans are the best, we have managed to take criticism from one of our favorite franchises, if not the favorite, and not blow up, you cant say that about a lot of people. lets pat ourselves on the back guys

Anyway, Okami is a game that plays, feels, and acts like Zelda yet isnt Zelda, the fact that they so accurately mimiced Zelda while making the whole play experience feel new and fresh is amazing. But at the same time, there is no point to hate on Zelda just because of the fan, I mean when every game that comes out for a franchise is game of the year and ranks highly among best games of all time, we tend to expect a lot.

[Media]

Zelda's an RPG?

[HPK]

Zelda's an RPG?

Not quite. It's more of an adventure game with RPG aspects with action gameplay.

I just took a skim through the thread, and I honestly feel that the Zelda series does need something new. Granted, I like the Zelda series but I feel the formula has gone a bit stale. My girlfriend and I had this discussion (she being a "die-hard" Zelda fan) and she was upset with my opinion. Her argument being that there's no reason to change the Zelda series at all. Maybe there isn't, but I guess I'm the kind of guy who likes some changes to be made here and there.
A somewhat different timeline would be cool. I'm not talking about something futuristic or present day (which would be rather untrue to the series) but perhaps something a bit more modern than what has been used thus far. Something I hope to see in a future Zelda game is the usage of sailing again. The exploration at sea idea was cool, but I think with a few more tweaks it could be awesome. Like, have Hyrule be the only known mass of land (so, imagine it being like a Europe+Asia continent). There's a lot of water to the west side of the map and no one has explored it. You get to explore all that unknown water as well as have some large mass of land to explore. Have a bunch of scattered islands in the water and maybe a seperate continent. And considering we don't know what's on this land, we could see some crazy stuff. Also, this could mean that we don't necessarily have to find new items in dungeons so much.
I also think it's time for the Zelda series to step-up and get some voice-actors. The text doesn't convey the emotion that voices can, and considering this is Nintendo, I'm pretty sure they won't pick out some horrible voices for each character. Also, I do expect Link to talk at some point. Before anyone gets freaked out by that thought, I'm talking about some minor lines and stuff. He's the "silent protagnist, " I know, but he can do more than just stare blankly at people when wanting to know something, or when someone asks him something.
Another thing I'd like to see: a leveling system. I think it would be pretty cool and it could probably fit into the series very well.

[curryking1]

Well as with all series, when fans are demanding something new, the game will evolve to make it cater to the gamer's tastes. Mario, FF, Zelda are still going and they will change to suit our tastes because it's in their best interest to make us buy things from them and we need to like them to do just that.

Zelda will change and evolve just like other series, it won't stay 'stale,' I'm sure of it.

[Ivory_Soul]

You mean GBA?
GBC = Link's Awakening DX (or the Oracle games)

Ummm...not sure it was a GBC Zelda though I forgot the name.

[Applefiend]

For the little I've played of Okami/Zelda TP (Only done about 10 hours of both), Zelda seems like the better game, but Okami is a bit fresher. Also there's some politics involved, as Okami is a game that was really great, but nobody bought it, then Clover got closed down. Clover had a lot more great games in them.

Wheras Zelda TP sold as much as it deserved.

The solution is as always, play and enjoy both, they're great games.

The thing about Zelda TP is it's kinda Zelda OOT 2. It's the game you'd want as a sequel, more than Majora's Mask or the cell shaded one. The onus on Nintendo now is to reinvent the franchise in the next Zelda, making Zelda OOT 3 would really start the Zelda backlash.

[Blaksmoke]

Can I say that I'd rather play Banjo-Kazooie than either game and be safe?

[Applefiend]

They can both **** off compared to God of War 2 in my book. http://www.opa-age.com/style_emoticons/default/ps3banana8uq.gif

But that's just me. :)

[Ivory_Soul]

*Fives Apple and misses* I totally agree Apple GoW 2 FTW :)

[HolyPaladin]

Here are a few NEW and INNOVATIVE games that were good and came out last year and won over Zelda

Gears of War
Viva Pinata
Dead Rising
Dreamfall: The Longest Journey
Okami
Bully
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Elite Beat Agents

Those are some of the games for why Zelda didn't win GotY...nuf said.

The only one on that list that really might deserve to take Game of the Year is Oblivion, but while all sorts of websites and magazines will be picking their GotY, the most noteworthy Game of the Year award will come in under a week from the 10th Annual Interactive Achievement Awards. As far as Zelda goes, however, it doesn't matter if you or any other given gamer dislikes Twilight Princess or the series in general, because it's still and always has been a highly-respected franchise full of high-scoring, outstanding games, and many sites and publications have indeed named Twilight Princess as their 2006 Game of the Year over those other previously-listed titles, not to mention that it's the highest-scored game of 2006 across all platforms without exception. As outstanding as Twilight Princess is, it deserves GotY at least as much as any other candidate.

"What do you mean 'the only one on that list that really might deserve to take Game of the Year is Oblivion'? The others listed were great, too!" Yes, but not "Game of the Year" great. After Twilight Princess, Oblivion deserves the honor next.

[Blaksmoke]

Also, just the fact that TP utilizes the Wii remote can certainly be considered "new and innovative"...

[curryking1]

^^Hey man, FF XII also! I personally thought Oblivion was rather weak and not much of an improvement over Morrowind. It's a very large game of course, just it doesn't feel very polished, I didn't feel it's very deserving of a GOTY, but I still think it is a very great game.

[[Daniel Primed]]

I think that this whole GOTY thing comes down to balance. Sure Okami is innovative but Zelda is perfection of the adventure/RPG genre. You need to balance a good game(and good gameplay) against freshness. Freshness being new ideas and innovative concepts.

Now without balance you either get a stale game or a game that doesn't make sense. Therefore some people value Okami's innovation higher than Zelda TP perfection or otherwise.

I have Zelda(altho hardly played it) and plan on getting Okami. Both are great games, altho I'd root for Fire Emblem Sacred Stones as the GOTY!

[Ethan]

I found TP to drag on FOREVAR!

And Lucent, don't EVER talk bad about my LttP AGAIN! :P

[Lucent Beam]

I found TP to drag on FOREVAR!

And Lucent, don't EVER talk bad about my LttP AGAIN! :P

Er, I don't remember talking bad about LttP but ok. :sleepy:

[The Dude]

Ok Zelda is OLD REHASHED STUFF with new content...Okami is NEW AND INNOVATIVE

Gears of War
Viva Pinata
Dead Rising
Dreamfall: The Longest Journey
Okami
Bully
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Elite Beat Agents

Those are some of the games for why Zelda didn't win GotY...nuf said.

None of those are even close to Zelda calibur. Without Zelda there would have been no Okami, which "borrows" so much from LOZ it isnt even funny. Same could be said for Gears of War '"borrowing" from Resident Evil 4. Both of which ripped out the best parts of said game and pasted them into a new setting.


I have played a lot of games in my days (including all on your list), and none of them come close to the brilliance of Zelda: Twilight Princess. It really is that good

[Ivory_Soul]

Gears borrowing from RE? Ok THAT was a first and I've never heard of that before. A lot of those games are "Zelda calibur" just in different aspects and categories...

[The Dude]

Gears borrowing from RE? Ok THAT was a first and I've never heard of that before.

Let us count the ways.

1) over the shoulder perspective
2) heavy shooting, easy puzzles
3) simple button commands (dodging enemy attacks, killing bosses)
4) Chainsaws
5) The "dirty atmosphere" graphic style.

Alone these things dont really matter, but combined it looks like they took a little too much from RE4. Gears of War is pretty much resident evil 4 with a faster pace and pretty graphics.


A lot of those games are "Zelda calibur" just in different aspects and categories...

Oh they are very good games, but none are as polished or have gameplay that is as perfectly fine tuned and balanced as Twilight Princess. I didn't mean to pick apart your posts but there is a very good argument for Zelda

[Phoenix]

Why does everyone talk about Okami like it's innovative? The only real innovation is in the graphical and narrative style.

[Xer0]

Why does everyone talk about Okami like it's innovative? The only real innovation is in the graphical and narrative style.

Innovative because nothing really looks like Okami, that and the brush is hella cool.

[Phoenix]

Hella cool? Yes. New? Nah.

[Ivory_Soul]

Oh they are very good games, but none are as polished or have gameplay that is as perfectly fine tuned and balanced as Twilight Princess. I didn't mean to pick apart your posts but there is a very good argument for Zelda

Now you're just giving Zelda too much credit. It's good...but not revolutionary. It's not perfect either. I've played games better and more fine tuned then Zelda and even Gears of War. IMO God or War II pwns Zelda all the way.

[The Dude]

Now you're just giving Zelda too much credit. It's good...but not revolutionary. It's not perfect either. I've played games better and more fine tuned then Zelda and even Gears of War. IMO God or War II pwns Zelda all the way.

God of War II isn't even out yet...and the first one was short and a tad too easy. IMO Twilight Princess is the closest thing to gaming perfection, but what do I know? I'm just a fanboi

[Zer0-Sum]

On thing I find utterly amusing is the fact tha many fanboys, especially Ninty ones, lambaste Sony for doing the same old thing and making games that are "all the same". This sentiment is everywhere and it is lame. The "best" series of their beloved Ninty is just that, the same old tired formula over and over again with some new game mechanics tossed in to shake it up a bit. I like Zelda, but the best game ever? Not really, not by a freaking long shot.....

[Phoenix]

Nintendo does more than just sequels, they have a lot of brand new stuff. They just tend to throw older characters onto those games. Even when they do make proper sequels, I would hardly call them "the same old tired formula".

[Ivory_Soul]

On thing I find utterly amusing is the fact tha many fanboys, especially Ninty ones, lambaste Sony for doing the same old thing and making games that are "all the same". This sentiment is everywhere and it is lame. The "best" series of their beloved Ninty is just that, the same old tired formula over and over again with some new game mechanics tossed in to shake it up a bit. I like Zelda, but the best game ever? Not really, not by a freaking long shot.....

Thank you. You always seem to have good straight to the point...erm points. I remember you posting in the HL2 vs. Halo thread I made and you made excellent relevant points.

God of War II isn't even out yet...and the first one was short and a tad too easy.

So what if it isn't out yet. I'm sure you thought TP was the best game ever when they announced it didn't you? Everyone knew Guitar Hero II was going to rock. What about Halo 2 and Oblivion? God of War II is going to own big time once it comes out...have you ever tried beating GoW on God Mode? I don't think you have or you wouldn't say it's easy.

[Zer0-Sum]

Why does everyone talk about Okami like it's innovative? The only real innovation is in the graphical and narrative style.

Okami's gameplay mechanics are very original. When is the last time you saw a game that used brush strokes to do things in a game?

Don't get me wrong. I have played ever single Zelda game ever made except for TP and I will when I get a Wii. But is is vastly over rated IMO. Kinda like Halo.(Thank you BTW Ivory for your comments...)

And Ivory Soul is right, play GOW on God Mode and it will own you like a little girl. Every game is easy when you play on easy or normal modes.

[Lucent Beam]

It's gameplay mechanics are very original. When is the last time you saw a game that used brush strokes to do things in a game?

Kirby's Canvas Curse.
Pac-Pix
etc
etc

[Ivory_Soul]

Lucent has a point there but deadboyz meant an actual brush not like...drawing straight lines or anything. Okami actually used the brush in everything.

[Lucent Beam]

Lucent has a point there but deadboyz meant an actual brush not like...drawing straight lines or anything. Okami actually used the brush in everything.

If you only draw straight lines in Kirby, you will lose.
If you only draw straight lines in Pac-Pix, you cannot win.
So... :thumpsup:

[Xer0]

On thing I find utterly amusing is the fact tha many fanboys, especially Ninty ones, lambaste Sony for doing the same old thing and making games that are "all the same". This sentiment is everywhere and it is lame. The "best" series of their beloved Ninty is just that, the same old tired formula over and over again with some new game mechanics tossed in to shake it up a bit. I like Zelda, but the best game ever? Not really, not by a freaking long shot.....

How many times must we have this debate. Anyway, just the fact that Zelda is, in your words, a series, means that there wont be any drastic changes in it since, well, it wouldnt be a series if there were. Its a franchise and as such it has to have certain elements that come with the name. As for the same formula over and over again, how many games can you really call new? Honestly, every game borrows from other games, the only reason that people pick on Nintendo games is simply because they usually do it best and people love to see the best falter.

Not only that, but they have been around the longest. Honestly, every1 over at the Playstation forums goes crazy when MGS4, DMC4, GTA4, Gran Turismo5, FFXIII, etc gets announced, yet dont even atempt to tell me that these games are not "the same old tired formula over and over again with some new game mechanics tossed in to shake it up a bit". People just pick on Zelda and Ninty cause again, it does it best. As for Clover and Okami, this is probably some of the sadest news ive heard as a gamer considering that we have a studio that has put out a game of more or less equal quality to a Zelda and its closing down, it really is a shame.

[Ivory_Soul]

Xer0 has a point...but man you're getting to anal not every game borrows from another some just make their own new genres like Katamari Damacy and Okami made it's own style you could say.

If you only draw straight lines in Kirby, you will lose.
If you only draw straight lines in Pac-Pix, you cannot win.
So...

Cute...very cute...

[Lucent Beam]

As for Clover and Okami, this is probably some of the sadest news ive heard as a gamer considering that we have a studio that has put out a game of more or less equal quality to a Zelda and its closing down, it really is a shame.

Not just that, but Viewitful Joe as well!

[masteratt]

Honestly, every1 over at the Playstation forums goes crazy when MGS4, DMC4, GTA4, Gran Turismo5, FFXIII, etc gets announced, yet dont even atempt to tell me that these games are not "the same old tired formula over and over again with some new game mechanics tossed in to shake it up a bit".
Take MGS4 off that list for your own good :guns:

[Ivory_Soul]

Yeah poor Joe...I hope someone buys those licenses.

Take MGS4 off that list for your own good

OK Xer0 I now agree with you lol.

[Zer0-Sum]

How many times must we have this debate. Anyway, just the fact that Zelda is, in your words, a series, means that there wont be any drastic changes in it since, well, it wouldnt be a series if there were. Its a franchise and as such it has to have certain elements that come with the name. As for the same formula over and over again, how many games can you really call new? Honestly, every game borrows from other games, the only reason that people pick on Nintendo games is simply because they usually do it best and people love to see the best falter.

Not only that, but they have been around the longest. Honestly, every1 over at the Playstation forums goes crazy when MGS4, DMC4, GTA4, Gran Turismo5, FFXIII, etc gets announced, yet dont even atempt to tell me that these games are not "the same old tired formula over and over again with some new game mechanics tossed in to shake it up a bit". People just pick on Zelda and Ninty cause again, it does it best. As for Clover and Okami, this is probably some of the sadest news ive heard as a gamer considering that we have a studio that has put out a game of more or less equal quality to a Zelda and its closing down, it really is a shame.

Like I said, I love Zelda. It is not so much the games as the people who go off about Zelda like it is the best thing ever created. Of course franchises and sequels do things over and over again. But just because Zelda is great does not make the best game ever made, which is what most Zelda fans will angrily espouse as the gospel truth.

And yes, I was very upset at the news of Clover. So damn lame....

[Xer0]

Xer0 has a point...but man you're getting to anal not every game borrows from another some just make their own new genres like Katamari Damacy and Okami made it's own style you could say.



Katamari ill somewhat agree with, but Okami took Zelda elements and emulated them perfectly, however, it also put them in a world that we have never seen before with a kickass new mechanic (the brush).


Take MGS4 off that list for your own good


Nope :P Besides, i dont care if it plays exactly like all the other ones, i want to see Snake go after the Patriots damn it! And ill still buy it.


Like I said, I love Zelda. It is not so much the games as the people who go off about Zelda like it is the best thing ever created. Of course franchises and sequels do things over and over again. But just because Zelda is great does not make the best game ever made, which is what most Zelda fans will angrily espouse as the gospel truth.


The reason that Zelda is so highly covoted is that, as a series spanning its 20 some odd years, it has yet to falter, and if you were to go as far as to find key problem areas, they would consist of games that didnt take place in Hyrule. Majora's Mask got blasted for it, Wind Waker as well (at least until people figured out that it was Hyrule, just covered in water), although Wind Waker was for the style as well, yet at the end of the day, they were still exceptional games. When you build a legacy like this, and have timeless games like OoT and Alttp holding up the rear, honestly what more could you expect?


Not just that, but Viewitful Joe as well!


How could i forget!

[Shadow Voa]

Ok I know Twilight Princess is really good. I am SOOOO sick and tired of all the fanboys screaming that it is a bad game, and not the best game ever made

Ok.. so you dont like Zelda then dont play the greatest game series ever. Its your choice to miss out on a gaming experience that is unmatched to any game out there. Who are we to stop you from sitting down to another adventure with Link which takes you on a wild journey offered by no other games out there with the exception of another Zelda game.

No... we wont hold you back any longer, like holding onto your Wiimote as you execute the finishing move to your enemy. This kind of thrilling experience only capable under Nintendo with the Zelda franchise, much like its story which is something of legends as its name sake would imply.

But I agree, Zelda is one of the best games ever Ivory!! You know your stuff for sure!! :XD:

[Zer0-Sum]

Xer0 I understand completely. But the discussion was not really on if Zelda is good or not. Everyone knows it is game mechanics perfection for the masses. We just are sick and tired of the "Zelda Fanatics" freaking out that it is the best game ever, something of which is a very subjective thing to judge. While one person may love the FPS's, others may love the RPG's. And BTW, I coming from the classic Pencil and Paper D&D world, I never ever believed that Zelda was and RPG. And what more could I expect? Something new.

And ShadowVoa's post above is exactly the type of nonsense I am talking about, if he is serious and I believe he is. It is his opinion it is the best game out there, it is not fact.

[Shadow Voa]

^ Stop being a loser with a stick up your rear. Im not allowed to joke around with someone elses opinion and make one I find funny? "if he is serious and I believe he is." Come back when your a mod or something who I actually feel threatened by... just deal with it I wasnt hurting anyone Sony boy!

[The Dude]

So what if it isn't out yet. I'm sure you thought TP was the best game ever when they announced it didn't you? Everyone knew Guitar Hero II was going to rock. What about Halo 2 and Oblivion? God of War II is going to own big time once it comes out...have you ever tried beating GoW on God Mode? I don't think you have or you wouldn't say it's easy.


1) No, I dont judge games until I finish them.
2) I was dissapointed with Guitar HeroII, the original had a MUCH better play list
3) What about Halo 2 and Oblivion?
4) Yes, and it was a walk in the park compared to Devil May Cry 3.

Now excuse me, I need to pull myself out of this pissing contest, Viva Pinata is calling my name.

[Zer0-Sum]

^ Stop being a loser with a stick up your rear. Im not allowed to joke around with someone else's opinion and make one I find funny? Come back when your a mod or something who I actually feel threatened by... just deal with it I wasn't hurting anyone Sony boy!

It really didn't sound like you were joking at all. If so, then apologize for the misunderstanding, if that is the case. And yes, it is your right to say anything you want, it is free speech here last I checked.

I am neither a loser nor a "Sony Boy". I have owned the Nintendo systems since the original NES, of which I bought by mowing lawns for summer when the NES first came out with Rob The Robot. I own a DS Lite and a PSP. I love both for what they are. i want a Wii and a PS3.

And I was never trying to "threaten" you. I was just making an example. An example of blow hard fanatical Nintendo fans that can not shut up about the fact that Zelda "is the R0X0R" and "Nintendo pwns". They are exactly like Macintosh fans who are so big headed about how "Better" Macintosh is than PC's. You distinctly sounded like this group of people. Again, sorry if this was not the case.

[Ivory_Soul]

1) No, I dont judge games until I finish them.
2) I was dissapointed with Guitar HeroII, the original had a MUCH better play list
3) What about Halo 2 and Oblivion?
4) Yes, and it was a walk in the park compared to Devil May Cry 3.

Now excuse me, I need to pull myself out of this pissing contest, Viva Pinata is calling my name.

You my friend are one of the type of peope for why no one can have a decent civilized conversation anymore. And I mentioned Halo 2 and Oblivion because everyone KNEW they were going to be great when they came out and were. Yeah DMC3 is harder then GoW but we're not talking about DMC3 here.

[Shadow Voa]

I dont think Im anything of any sort, I just made a joke and now your on a crusade Ivory? Im forcing nothing on no one so please dont come in here trying to "put me in my place". Since its not your place to do that anyway. Dead didnt know I was joking which is fair enough mistakes happen and I jumped the gun, Im not so big I cant apologize (Dead sorry for ripping on you).

You on the other hand appear out of nowhere defending him as if "OMG NINTENDO IS HERE TIME TO EVEN ODDS!!!" Which isnt the case at all! I too like all systems and am unbiased I simply made a joke of your post regardless of your opinion. It was a bit of fun, if you cant just laugh it off instead of preparing a Shadow Attack then you are the one with the stick up YOUR rear and no one wants that...

[Viper]

Did it deserve GOTY? Hell if I know. I couldn't play all the games on all systems through the whole year even if I wanted to.

Was it a great game? Hells yeah. Could it have been better? Abso-frikkin-lutely.

[Ivory_Soul]

Have you ever tried Valiums? Shadow the first part of that post didn't sound very funny to me either.

But I agree, Zelda is one of the best games ever Ivory!! You know your stuff for sure!!

I in fact missed that part since your banner on your sig distracted me, but you know we are intelligent human beings and we can just have a conversation without the bickering? I edited my post and I wouldn't have put it if I read that last lil bit, but honestly it didn't sound like a joke to me really, and no I don't think "Nintendo is here to even the odds" I don't think of people who like Nintendo as another race...I'm more mature then that. It's just people who are overly obsessive annoy the shit out of me. Again sorry for missing that last lil bit.

[Shadow Voa]

*sigh* Dont sweat it I guess... jeez everyone is jumping the gun today. Even at the heart of the post you can see it was joking around considering I aimed all the negatives as positives and spinned it around to make it sound like this thread was the opposite of what it was. Heh, Im not obsessive of anything I spent my hard earned money on anything gaming I considered great to play and have fun.

And on a side note my favourite game of all time is Chrono Trigger just throwing that out there ;)

[Ivory_Soul]

Sorry Shadow it's just I'm always hearing Nintendo this and Nintendo that now and it's really annoying me. It's not Nintendo's bad it's the people so whenever someone says something that's like "Nintendo is the BEST EVER!! ZOMG!!!!" but in a stupid unintelligent way it really annoys me. IF they said "Yeah Nintendo is the best for me because of da da da da" then that's fine. I just hate the Nintendo spammers if you know what I mean. I also hate Sony and MS people like that! It drives me crazy. Someone's gotta agree on that. IT's just there are more Nintendo fans because it's been around longer so you hear it more often.

[The Dude]

You my friend are one of the type of peope for why no one can have a decent civilized conversation anymore. And I mentioned Halo 2 and Oblivion because everyone KNEW they were going to be great when they came out and were. Yeah DMC3 is harder then GoW but we're not talking about DMC3 here.

Ok heres the deal.

We will meet in Vienna and have Jesse Jackson host a prayer before we begin our negotiations. After we discuss the technical shortcoming of both Zelda and Okami, we will submit a peace plan to the United Nations to vote on approval.































Dude we are talking about videogames here, pull that stick out of your ass and go play some.

[Ivory_Soul]

Is everyone done? Cuz I am...

[Shadow Voa]

Yeah Im heading to bed I got work in the morning...

*sigh* And here I wanted to do some leveling in Outlands (WoW) :(

[Viper]

Sorry Shadow it's just I'm always hearing Nintendo this and Nintendo that now and it's really annoying me. It's not Nintendo's bad it's the people so whenever someone says something that's like "Nintendo is the BEST EVER!! ZOMG!!!!" but in a stupid unintelligent way it really annoys me. IF they said "Yeah Nintendo is the best for me because of da da da da" then that's fine. I just hate the Nintendo spammers if you know what I mean. I also hate Sony and MS people like that! It drives me crazy. Someone's gotta agree on that. IT's just there are more Nintendo fans because it's been around longer so you hear it more often.
Well, you have to admit, for over a decade through 2 generations, you heard of Sony this and Sony that and then MS jumps int he party and N gamers are taken into account like the red headed step child of gaming industry.

N gamers finally get a moment in the sun and it's hard not to feel 'vocal pride' for having stuck by when all the media and other gamers claimed doom and gloom for 12 years.

[Ivory_Soul]

Yeah I understand but I hate damn retarded spammers who just shit it in your face and don't let you breathe you know? They don't even say why they like it they just say it is the best period.

[masteratt]

*off-topic laser beam attack*

[frosty]

deadboys, Ivory, look at it this way.

I think GTA:SA is the best GTA game ever made. Viper thinks VC is. He praises it as the best GTA.

Which one of us is wrong?

Neither.

It's called an opinion. Just because there are millions of people that love Zelda, doesn't mean you have to. Just because you don't like Zelda, doesn't mean they should stop singing their praises about it.

I've noticed you have gone on a bit of an anti-Nintendo rampage here latley... which fanboy crapped in your cheerio's? Seriously, you are allowing yourself to get way too worked up about people expressing their love for a video game system. Yes, Wii is selling like crazy. Yes it is putting PS3 and 360 to shame. Yes it does have potential to beat both. Yes Nintendo fans rightfully have reason to celebrate the success of their new toy.

Get used to it. It's their time in the spotlight. It may not last, Wii's sales could slow at any time (they already have some). But for now, let them celebrate. Don't let what any Nintendo fan does get to you, unless it is an outright insult. If that happens, let one of us mods know and we'll deal with it. Otherwise, chill out.

[Viper]

Well said, Frosty.

The blatant fanboyism of just being an arrogant ass about which console/game you like is not cool at all but is prevalent on all 3 systems pretty equally. Though one could argue that due to Sony's overwhelming install base, there are more Sony fanboys than the other two combined but that's not really the point nor provable.

Friendly debate with respect to each other can lead to some great discussion.

However, the occasional teasing can be fun as well.......VC, bitch.


See.

[Ivory_Soul]

Well yeah you're right but I'm talking about the retarded spammers who won't shut up and just say it's the best ever and don't let you breathe. It annoys me! lol I'm sure it annoys you too. You know what's funny though is I've never seen a serious Sony fanboy...it's really strange I've looked for them and can't find them. I've just seen MS and Nintendo's ignorant blatant dickweeds.

[Crow]

are you aware that some people may ACTUALLY think its the best game they have played? as long as people have different opinions this will always be a pointless arguement

[frosty]

Believe me, we have a couple on the Sony boards that I have to keep in check from time to time.

[Ivory_Soul]

Really? Strange. Well if people think it's the best game ever go for it just don't shit it in people's faces you know? You can say Zelda is the best over. I'll disagree a lil but if you shit it in my face you're gonna get attacked :)

[Generosity of God]

Zel...i mean...O'Doyl Rules !!!

[Ivory_Soul]

Smooth thinking God *evil look*

[The Dude]

Isn't this great we all have become better people? :trismile:

[Crosman]

We haven't seen next generation gaming.

I predict 25 years before next generation gaming even knocks on the door.

All I see is updates for preexisting games and demo's for the future. Nintendo, I do agree Nintendo has the upper hand when it comes to something new.


( Out of the blue...but true statement. )

[Viper]

Really? Strange. Well if people think it's the best game ever go for it just don't shit it in people's faces you know? You can say Zelda is the best over. I'll disagree a lil but if you shit it in my face you're gonna get attacked :)

Just keep in mind that happens on both sides of the fence. Just as you're pointing out other great games besides LOZ, many fans of the series get their heads ripped off by Sony/Xbox gamers for playing on the 'kiddie' console. We won't even go to Mario games.


Assholes exist and are not exclusive to any one company/developer. We all get it. Same for car fans, music fans, movie fans, etc...

[frosty]

Assholes... everyone has em' and they all stink.

[Xer0]

*sigh* And here I wanted to do some leveling in Outlands (WoW) :(

Off topic, Outlands is so dumb, imo. I mean i replaced everything that i had in a matter of seconds with uber greens. dont get me wrong, its aweasome but im afraid that it will get boring fast.

[Applefiend]

Nintendo are at an interesting point I think, because they've sidestepped a great many innovations in gaming, and their flagship product Zelda is probably very typical of that. They seem to have sidestepped...

Online: The kind of online you have on PC, XB Live, and now PS3. Buddy Lists, leaderboards, multiplayer, VoIP, etc

Downloadable content for games, I think you'll never see a downloadable expansion pack for Zelda TP.

Cinematic FMV cutscenes, some people hate em, I love em.

Fully voiced games, reading through pages of text bums people out now.

Building adult oreintated games. The average age of gamers keeps going up, I think it's 35 now.

And of course, HD TV.

The boredom some people have with Zelda TP is probably a result of coming to expect all of this out of a next gen game. I think Nintendo think if a trend wasn't invented at Nintendo it isn't worth following.

In a way it's great that Nintendo always go their own way, every great game they've made has been as a result of single minded vision, in another way I'd really like to see Nintendo tackle genres they didin't originate. Like make a Zelda MMORPG and so forth.

I'd also like them to embrace the cinematic.

My $0.02.

[Viper]

My replies in bold.

Nintendo are at an interesting point I think, because they've sidestepped a great many innovations in gaming, and their flagship product Zelda is probably very typical of that. They seem to have sidestepped...

Online: The kind of online you have on PC, XB Live, and now PS3. Buddy Lists, leaderboards, multiplayer, VoIP, etc
Online dev kits were just recently finalized and shipped to devs. It's coming.

Downloadable content for games, I think you'll never see a downloadable expansion pack for Zelda TP.
See above, though I agree maybe not for this LOZ.

Cinematic FMV cutscenes, some people hate em, I love em.

Fully voiced games, reading through pages of text bums people out now.

Building adult oreintated games. The average age of gamers keeps going up, I think it's 35 now.
That's debatable as what makes a game adult oriented? See DS for example. If by the gaming equivalent to a rated R movie then you may not be familiar with their collaborative efforts on several GC games that fit that description. Granted none were done in house in Japan by themselves.

And of course, HD TV.
Still only a fraction of gamers have one and it's already stated they'll use HD for their next console. Yeah I know, doesn't mean much for this one. Just pointing out they understand eventually it will be the majority and not the minority.

The boredom some people have with Zelda TP is probably a result of coming to expect all of this out of a next gen game. I think Nintendo think if a trend wasn't invented at Nintendo it isn't worth following.
I don't follow you on this. Are you saying people are bored of it because it's not in HD?

In a way it's great that Nintendo always go their own way, every great game they've made has been as a result of single minded vision, in another way I'd really like to see Nintendo tackle genres they didin't originate. Like make a Zelda MMORPG and so forth.

I'd also like them to embrace the cinematic.

My $0.02.

The MMORPG and perhaps an in house R rated like game would be very interesting to see.

[Ivory_Soul]

Well there you go Viper...again I agree with that and I am a reasonable man...just remember...arguing is like the Special Olympics...no matter who wins you're still retarded...just had to say that. Not directly at you Viper just in general.

[curryking1]

I agree with Viper that VC is the pinnacle of GTA from III to SA (unless it's just your fav and that's all you said, just wanted to continue the conversation lol), but I like SA's gameplay the best. VC totally nailed the 80s style in combination with an increase in everything from III, music, style, you name it. SA was certainly a technical leap and a tour de force, and got much better in the gameplay department to me.

I loved both, III, not so much. VC is totally the pinnacle to me, SA is my favourite.

We haven't seen next generation gaming.

I predict 25 years before next generation gaming even knocks on the door.

All I see is updates for preexisting games and demo's for the future. Nintendo, I do agree Nintendo has the upper hand when it comes to something new.

( Out of the blue...but true statement. )

I quite agree, it's so far just been games we've seen before to the HDR and the 720p, not impressive in my book.

Also, I agree with Viper again on the earlier page, Ninty deserves some serious respect and kudos for making a, so far, amazingly successful product which has very interesting strengths. I tip my touque to them.

[Ethan]

Er, I don't remember talking bad about LttP but ok. :sleepy:

...ALttP... felt so lifeless compared to the Zeldas for N64. Especially the weak boss fights.

;-]

[the poe collector]

dang Ethan, A Link to the Past sure is a great game. This thread title hurts my soul.

What is everyone talking about now?

[Ethan]

*Cries*

[TheGreenElf]

Don't get me wrong. I have played ever single Zelda game ever made except for TP and I will when I get a Wii. But is is vastly over rated IMO. Kinda like Halo.(Thank you BTW Ivory for your comments...)

How can you say it's overrated if you haven't played it?

[Ivory_Soul]

^^ Because it's over rated. You don't have to play it to know that. He probably means it's getting too much credit.

[Viper]

Well, that can't be determined without actually playing it. You can't RATE anything without actually having the experience with the product. Therefore you can't claim something as over'rateded' if you don't have the experience.

Would you say that Disney Japan is overrated or underrated even though you've never been?

[HolyPaladin]

*has never played Metal Gear Solid 4*

Metal Gear Solid 4 is highly over-rated. I don't have to play it to know that. It's obviously just another Metal Gear Solid game, and thusly the hype is undeserved.

Anybody have any problems with that comment? It's no worse than substituting "Metal Gear Solid" with "The Legend of Zelda". Exactly the same situation; just with a different name.

[Viper]

For the sake of it:

___[insert any/all upcoming video games]___ is over-rated.

[curryking1]

^^ Because it's over rated. You don't have to play it to know that. He probably means it's getting too much credit.

That's simply ridiculous.

And secondly, even after you play it and you personally don't like it, it would only be overrated to you. Maybe gaming society praises Zelda often, but it's deserved especially with how hot this series is, consistently putting out AAA efforts with each instalment.

Overrated would simply be a perspective from someone who didn't like the game. Looking from a broader and general perspective, Zelda is one of, if not the, best franchises in history, and this latest one is pretty damn fine as well, knowing how many people appreciate this game, because that's the best judgement on greatness.

And now since I have to define greatness, greatness to me is a game appealing to a large audience, and generally being appreciated by that large audience. I do not take away from any quality games that did not do financially well, those are obviously exceptions.

This is the exact same thing as me saying baseball sucks to me, and then going on to say baseball is overrated. I am correct in the first, b/c that's my opinion and made that clear with 'to me.' However, I can at least appreciate that many people do in fact love baseball even if it's not the game for me and when I said baseball is overrated, that is complete farce. That is only from my perspective, not everyone's.

If you want to say it's overrated, make sure you clarify and say, to you, you did not like the game and think it was too highly rated, and differentiate from saying that to all of us the game is overrated.But you have to at least have moderate experience with the game to do that now.

*has never played Metal Gear Solid 4*

Metal Gear Solid 4 is highly over-rated. I don't have to play it to know that. It's obviously just another Metal Gear Solid game, and thusly the hype is undeserved.

:cry2: My... feelings.... lol!

[Crosman]

I love everything about the Zelda games, beat Twilight Princess...I agree, the game is overrated.

I wouldn't give this game a perfect score, same with Gears of War. Resident Evil 4 was perfect, compare the products and you get lower scores for both games.

I just think the Zelda team could pull something off a lot better then Twilight Princess, seemed to me the long wait was just a sample of whats to come.

(Anyone notice, in Hyrule town, the characters were all copies? The same exact characters would run right across from each other. I never seen anything like that before in the Zelda series.)

[Chris]

^^ Because it's over rated. You don't have to play it to know that. He probably means it's getting too much credit.

I personally read it as he's refering the series as a whole, which I would hope is the case, because I'm with Viper, you can't say something is overrated unless you've played it.

[Shadow Voa]

Off topic, Outlands is so dumb, imo. I mean i replaced everything that i had in a matter of seconds with uber greens. dont get me wrong, its aweasome but im afraid that it will get boring fast.

Yeah thats why I do casual bursts of leveling. The quests are everywhere and allow for ease while you go around exploring new places (Nagrand is awesome) and picking up LOTS of gold. I cant stress how much gold Im making its completely unreal. But for most part its true the effect will where off... but for now its enjoyable.

[Ivory_Soul]

It's not ridiculous to think what I said. If GameSpot is making whole news articles on one weapon in Halo 3 that Bungie announced...that's over rated my friend. I have to admit though Zelda wasn't very over rated and over hyped. You heard almost nothing about it for a year. I'm talking about since it's release it's been just wadded up in a ball and thrown at you and it was kind of annoying.

[Viper]

Kinda like how KillZone, Heavenly Sword, MGS4, etc....are thrown at N games despite gamers having not really played any of them?

Everyone is getting belted by media and fans about games that either don't interest them or they've simply heard more about it than they care to endure.

At least with the current LOZ blitz, the game is out, gamers are playing it and it's living up to the expectations (granted, that part is as much personal opinion as something being overrated is).

[shaka]

I played both and for me Final Fantasy XII destroys both Okami and the new zelda was a huge dissapoinment.:ohno:

FFXII is the best game of all time.


about the articule well nintendo fanboys are the worst they really think of nintendo as god or a religion they are weird people i stay away and i wish they would stay away from PS3forums beacuase they are patethic.

i stay away from websites like kotaku,joystiq and gamespot beacuase i know they are filled with nintendo fanboys,but when i go to a PS3 site to talk about PlayStation only i find them there aswell they are really crazy.:ohno:

[curryking1]

I dunno about best of all time lol, but it's certainly one of my favourite games ever. Square knows how to deliver a supremely polished product, make it fun, make it epic, and just make a great game.

Good call Ivory. I kind of agree with this Halo thing. Is it necessary for GS to make a whole article on one weapon getting altered? Maybe not, it's only to cater to the big Halo fanbase who would eat it up and give the site lots of hits. From one stance, that type of article would be more suited coming from the official Halo site or official Halo fan site, but it's just because so many people that browse the internet are Halo fans, so they are willing to compromise having 'worthy articles.'

But to define worthy articles, that's hard, maybe my opinion of worthy articles isn't taking into account enough factors, or too many unimportant ones, I don't know.

Halo 2 must have been the most hyped thing I've ever seen in gaming, and it didn't appear to live up to being the sequel of Halo, not that it's a bad game. LoZ may have been a little overhyped from some people's view, but overall, it didn't get to the extent, I don't believe, that it simply got ridiculous and everyone just rated it amazing because it was Zelda.

LoZ wasn't near the same level of hype many other games get for no reason, and at the same time, it did deliver either a little below or a little above what everyone expected. I kind of think this thread was unwarranted, but out of it came some good discussion, so that's always a plus.

@Viper - Ya, some games have been getting unreasonable attention so far. HS is an example, but at least there are reasons to be excited about it. It looks relatively promising, and has some Hollywood talent in Andy Serkis that is pretty easy to advertise. It truly is the media's and fans choice of what gets shoved in our faces and what doesn't.

But then, when you think about this more, what do you see on TV everyday? The norm. What is the norm? 100 people died in central Baghdad today, 2 international soldiers in Afghanistan, North Korea is crazy. Why are we told the same crap everyday on most news stations? Is that news worthy of being told so many times? What is the point? It's all to get the dough in the end I guess. The newscasts are directly competing and have to use the same tactics to stay in good shape.

One could argue showing us documentaries and truly in depth analyses of world issues would be more fitting for news and education on global issues, but we get sensationalist garbage or strain inducing repetitiveness of the same things that they know will sell to the average joe. The exact same thing we're getting here, just it's videogames. But one could also argue it's not a bad thing, one could argue it is. Is it wrong to cater to the masses? At what point does the type of message being sent catering to the masses become bad and worthless?

[[[tavis]]]

40 hours in and bored stiff with this game. :( i love it but damn its the same old same old now. <- overly exaggerated

[Applefiend]

I'd just really like Nintendo to go balls out and make a game with Squaresoft production values. Big orchestral music(Midi, no thanks), very detailed character models, FF:Spirits Within FMV, kick ass online. The Wii can do all that with DVD-9 now, so why not.

And with a new franchise. I don't mean adult oreintated as in debbie does Wiimote or whatever, I mean AO as in you know... Say Oceans 11 vs Toy Story. You know what I mean.

I think if they did Squaresoft would be out of business overnight. I think the chances of this happening are very slim, I think Nintendo have a certain business model which works, and works very well. It also makes their audience very happy.

I kinda feel like a guy who slags off Disney for asking why they keep making animated movies with the frigging mouse, but I'd like Nintendo to suprise people with the theme of their game, not just the gameplay or controls.

I'd like to see Nintendo make something very high quality but very out of character. A complete suprise. The Nintendo future catalogue is high quality but... Kinda predictable, and that's the problem.

[Ivory_Soul]

This thread is still going? curry and Apple...great opinions! I totally agree.

[woundingchaney]

Im not sure if I have already posted this or not.



I really liked Zelda especially the way the wii remote was incorporated into the game. The problem is that Zelda hasnt changed in about 20 years. Its still the same formula. Go to a dungeon get an item kill a big baddy and then go to another dungeon, its getting a little old. Sure they had the dog in this one but I dont feel that was very well done as whenever I changed into the damn dog all I wanted to do was turn back human. Zelda needs to open up. I want actual side quests with a little more substance than "Get me 2k rupees" I want a larger sense of world, essentially I want more grandeur in the title. I want some kind of emotional attachment or bond to the characters in the game.

The main problem is that what makes Zelda great is the same thing that is making Zelda stale.

[Chris]

I'd just really like Nintendo to go balls out and make a game with Squaresoft production values. Big orchestral music(Midi, no thanks), very detailed character models, FF:Spirits Within FMV, kick ass online. The Wii can do all that with DVD-9 now, so why not.


That would totally kick ass, and especially the Midi, I mean COME ON!!


The main problem is that what makes Zelda great is the same thing that is making Zelda stale.

Well, they did state that this would be the last Zelda of it's kind, I hope they didn't just mean that as far as controls go and more in the sense of the gameplay as well. Which of course really makes me anxious to see what exactly they meant, which of course...makes time move slower

[Lucent Beam]

;-]

That wasn't bad talking, that was honesty!

[Blaksmoke]

Fishing hole should've been bigger.

[curryking1]

I'd just really like Nintendo to go balls out and make a game with Squaresoft production values. Big orchestral music(Midi, no thanks), very detailed character models, FF:Spirits Within FMV, kick ass online. The Wii can do all that with DVD-9 now, so why not.

Please, please, in whatever way you can, if you can find the piano collections of VIII, or IX, or the orchestral music for VIII, or the Advent Children opening and ending theme, those are WAAAYYYY beyond the music that was in the game.

If you listen to them, and imagine that those were the songs in the game, just wow, unbelievably high quality music, it's madness. If they are to remake them, and they use the high quality versions and orchestral versions of the music, the atmosphere and level of immersion would skyrocket like crazy.

Ones I can pick of the top of my head, almost all of the orchestral pieces from the FF VIII orchestral soundtrack, Unfathomed Reminiscence and various others from the FF IX piano collection, the opening and ending to the AC movie, and the orchestral One Winged Angel from VII.

But one everyone MUST listen to if you can, The Man With the Machine Gun and Fragments of Memories orchestral versions, if you put those where they would've been in the game (these ones are from FF VIII), holy crap.

Blue Fields, Dance with the Balamb Fish, ah forget it, everything from the orchestral soundtrack from FF VIII is simply amazing. Just imagine those in a game, just wow, it's amazing. Of course also Liberi Fatali and the ending theme, but they used the orchestral versions in the PS1 game, albeit not the highest quality ones, it was the exact same music for the ending and opening FMVs.

[Phoenix]

Personally I just want Nintendo to make whatever game would be most fun. If it's less family appropriate, so be it, but making a conscious effort to narrow the target demographic of a game is stupid.

[Shadow Voa]

Hey.. hey now lets not bash midi's! I have a collection of gaming midi's I love to listen too, in fact I was disappointed to see I cant play midi's on my PSP. :(

[Phoenix]

The only thing MIDIs have going for them is that if obtained on a computer you can see the notes with the right software. I have almost the entire Tales of Symphonia soundtrack for this reason. :)

[Shadow Voa]

Why not the fact that you played the game with this music in some cases and you just like it more?

Everytime I play Chrono Trigger I always love "Wind Scene", "Zeals Theme" and "Frog's Theme" on the SNES. I have tons of versions of these from orchestral pieces to techno remixes and nothing seems to equal the same enjoyment as their midi counterparts.

[curryking1]

^You listen to the Chrono Cross soundtrack too right? Amazing music as well.

So many good ones, "Dream of Shore Bordering Another World." "Voyage Another World," "Star Stealing Girl." "Time of the Dreamwatch," and my personal favourite, "Without Taking the Jewel."

[Ivory_Soul]

I don't mind the midis I think they are really nice sometimes actually. A bit of nostalgia never hurts.

[rpgamer_2k5]

I don't know what an excellent title is, but a title that goes beyond the norm is what I consider close to excellent. Titles like Zelda are well above the norm and as far as I know, only a few titles fall in this arena.

That is why it is correct to say Zelda is one of the best franchises ever created.

Similarly it is also correct to say that Zelda is the best franchise ever. In fact, I'll rather go for Zelda than Final Fantasy! That is another franchise that reaches a level, only a few touch.

Universally speaking, Zelda along with FF are elligible to be considered the 'greatest title ever' category for mainstream gamers. I stress mainstream gamers since niche games while great some even matching Zelda have only reached a small market. In contrast, millions have experienced Zelda and one thing I can tell you is that this title isn't that substandardmultiplatform clones we see dominating the PC and console industry.

As long as that is the case, back off of Zelda. I'm now going through the GC version even though FFXII is front of me. It's that good. No need to establish a thread in order to initiate the fanboy 'witch hunt' which seems to be very popular on the forums these days. :(

[Added Later]

Ivory you mean, synthesized music? MIDI is just a communication interface. But yeah if you're used to orchestrated music (ie. Wagner, Beethoven, etc) then you're going to notice some weaknesses in the sound. DQVIII took the orchestrated route, and it sounded great but price is a factor and possibly even medium space.

[Shadow Voa]

^You listen to the Chrono Cross soundtrack too right? Amazing music as well.

So many good ones, "Dream of Shore Bordering Another World." "Voyage Another World," "Star Stealing Girl." "Time of the Dreamwatch," and my personal favourite, "Without Taking the Jewel."

Oh course, I just dont have any Chrono Cross midi's. Aww Im shocked you didnt mention "Times Scar." or "Radical Dreamers." The japanese version by Noriko Mitose is amazing and really a great listen if you need some beautiful music to listen too. It simply astounds me the amound of great music that was produced alone from the Chrono franchise!!

[curryking1]

Lol! I never remember all the names hahaha, the Chrono Cross ones aren't midi's btw, they are mp3's for the soundtrack, I think they used mp3 for all the PS games, if not mp3s though, certainly not midi's I'm almost sure.

"Time's Scar"/"Scars of Time" is also a fantastic one, good call, awesome intro music. One of my favourite funny ones is "Big Splendid Astonishing Magic Group" hahaha, I love that one.

Square game soundtracks are the only soundtracks I've ever listened to lol. Except for one film soundtrack, but that's it. Square and it's high production values, damn. And totally, from just the 2 games!?!? Like that's just an insane proportion of some of the best music in gaming for just 2, truly a feat.

P.S. "Radical Dreamers" is in fact the same as "Without Taking the Jewel." The full title is "Radical Dreamers - Without Taking the Jewel."

P.P.S. I hope I'm not the only one who thinks that "Dream's Creation" could make for an awesome lullaby... lol!

And... what happened to the Serge avy?? *sniffle* At least you're still representing on the location side lol.

[Shadow Voa]

I was surprised but I had multiple people not feeling the Serge avy, they felt it wasnt me. Lol so I cahged it to Hollow Ichigo piece I really liked since its just so me and really out there.

The Chrono Cross music was mp3, I have most of the tracks from the album, I just listed those three CT song since I really love them in midi form.

P.S. I didnt know that was the full title, I have the track in my Chrono Cross album I downloaded but its just "Track1" , Track 2"..etc so I dont have all the names.

P.P.S. It is 100% a great song for a lullaby without a doubt in my mind, in fact Im going to stick it on my PSP and go to bed listening to that song and "Wind Scene."

[curryking1]

YES! I'm not crazy! Hahahhaha.

Got it with the avatar ;)

[rpgamer_2k5]

Oh course, I just dont have any Chrono Cross midi's. Aww Im shocked you didnt mention "Times Scar." or "Radical Dreamers." The japanese version by Noriko Mitose is amazing and really a great listen if you need some beautiful music to listen too. It simply astounds me the amound of great music that was produced alone from the Chrono franchise!! + Rep. The theme, "Radical Dreamers" is amazing and so is the spin-off. :)

[Shadow Voa]

Its a great song indeed, youve got good tastes Rpg and your a local of TO which makes it even cooler + rep right back at you.

An Eminence Orchestra Download
Download a new arrangement of Radical Dreamers from Chrono Cross.
By IGN Staff

February 13, 2007 - Today we have a very special download for IGN Insiders. Eminence has given us a recording of a new arrangement from composer Yasunori Mitsuda of Radical Dreamers from Chrono Cross. The original was for a single guitar and voice, but when Mitsuda came out for "Passion" - a series of concerts Eminence performed in December 2006, he rearranged it for violin and double dubbed guitar, and they recorded it, with Hiroaki Yura on violin and Zane Banks on guitar. Download and enjoy!

Oh man I really want to hear this!! Anyone and IGN Insider that might be able to help me by downloading this? Id really appreciate it and +rep anyone who can help, I cant stress how much I'd like to hear this!!

[Ivory_Soul]

Wow this turned into talking about Zelda to PS1 RPG midis...strange...

[curryking1]

Woot Toronto! I'm from there as well! Amazing find Voa, can't give you rep right now, but you know you'd get it from me for that if I could lol.