What impact will this have on the PS3?

[Shogun042]

an HDMI equipped black Xbox 360 for $479 and with a 120GB hard drive, on may 1.

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200702/N07.0216.1234.57890.htm

i don't any flame wars or any of that b.s., but really what would this do to PS3 sales if this rumored piece of hardware was released.

will teh ps3 be doOmed?

or would it simply not effect sales much due to greatly updated software and tons of new games.

what do you all think of this?

[woundingchaney]

Looks as if it is becoming more and more likely. The only thing it could possibly affect is the sales of the PS3 for users that wish to have it for high def movies, I cant personally see it being much of an issue.--Thats if the hd dvd player is equiped in this sku, which it doenst seem to be. Honestly I cant see paying another 80 usd for a larger hdd and a hdmi port.



This is going to turn bad as it has in the past. Infact I beleive we saw the same thread only a couple of weeks ago.


But anyway Flame On.

[Shogun042]

but will an average joe walk into the store and think, oh cool the xbox is black, cheaper than PS3 and has bigger hard drive?

[woundingchaney]

but will an average joe walk into the store and think, oh cool the xbox is black, cheaper than PS3 and has bigger hard drive?

If anything the average joe is buying the Wii, the core 360, or the PS2 and could care less about hdd space and the color black.

[dork]

but will an average joe walk into the store and think, oh cool the xbox is black, cheaper than PS3 and has bigger hard drive?
who knows...

[LaLiLuLeLo]

PS3 is out and now MS is going back and retro-fitting the 360. Which only prove's sony's initiative right.

[woundingchaney]

PS3 is out and now MS is going back and retro-fitting the 360. Which only prove's sony's initiative right.

Like I said.

[Zer0-Sum]

I don't really think it will effect the PS3 sales at all really. In the end it is really all about the games and Playstation fans know where the games they love are at and going to be on, the PS3. But technologically speaking it is another ball game all together.

To me though this really has the feeling of "Me Too" and catching up to Sony technologically speaking. The hard Drive to me is crap. Sure it is good for the people who buy this or the premium model, but the rest of the people who don't have the hard drive it is bad news. It essentially widens the gap of the "haves" and the "have not" in regards to the hard drive. The same is not true for the PS3 at all. Everyone has a hard drive and devs have no worries. The same can not be said of devs for the 360.

And the HDMI hook up? IMO the 360 still does not have true HD movie playback unless you buy the HD movie player add on, which is selling like crap and the attach rate is terrible. It is a peripheral, what did they expect? For games they can scale it up or down, but for movies again it is no good. Again, this is a problem of a split camp in regards to hard ware. Not a problem with the PS3. This again seems like too much of "Me too" and catch up with Sony. I also seem to remeber the execs at Microsoft talking shit on the HDMI hook up as well as talking trash on "HD" saying it was "Not Necessary". Guess the fucked up on that one aye?:duh:

Even the color seems like a case of the "Me too"'s. Funny really.

I think this all makes more problems for Microsoft then is solves. It shows a weakness in the 360 that they feel they need to fix. That is not good.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

again, all that needs to be said is this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/Lalilulelo/GTFO.gif

[stanDarsh]

It's only a rumour at this stage, I'll leave this topic open for th time being, but if it gets ugly like a few of you have predicted then I will lock it.

[Zer0-Sum]

again, all that needs to be said is this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/Lalilulelo/GTFO.gif

Nice!!! PS3 is the ass whupper for real....

+rep, made me laugh. I need that, home work is frying my head. Too many edge loops and verts modeling. Maya overload.

[masteratt]

There is no need to think this will become a flaming thread because then it will.
Keep it on topic on don't respond to small un-necessary things because you felt angry toward it and it should be fine, this is a topic I want to discuss so let's try to keep it open, we are not bunch of kids here.



This is a great thing for X360.
It stops it looking "last-gen" compared to the PS3 and on the surface looks to have everything the PS3 has for a lesser price.

But I finally feel good when I say "Games sell and that's why PS3 will still win" because although this is good for X360s image, it does absolutely nothing for the gaming experience.

120GB HDD is only for the downloadable content since Devs can't use HDD and Native 1080p games aren't exactly raining down on the X360 either.
This is just an upgrade from MS so they can say to Sony "my HDD is bigger than yours".
MS is once again looking to grab the stupidity of the consumers.

However it is a smart update for people who want to use their X360 for as their media centre but then again if X360 had replaceable HDD, they wouldn't need to buy a 'new' $479 console.

In conclusion- Horrible business plan by MS as in they are taking advantage of all the dirty monopoly tricks in the book but as in a business plan sesne (i.e: the money and the image) it makes sense.

Not good news unless you work for MS though.
At least not the way I see it.


All these different X360 versions might also get too confusing for the consumer and stopd the Xbox brand having a solid image.

When you say PS3, you think of a $600 piece of hardware but when you say Xbox 360 you think of the core pack, the premium ack one having HDD, the other one not having it and now one X360 having HDMI with the other two lacking HDMI and one has HDD, the other has no HDD, now this one has a bigger one, they might bring out a HDD upgrade for the premium and blah blah......Just crap.

I rather pay $600 and then stfu, sit down and enjoy knowing this is the best it's gonna get.

[Siraris]

This will absolutely swing favor towards the PS3. It will be a $20 difference with the 20 gig version, and the 360 still has no HD drive built in. The 120 gig HDD may be appealing, but I doubt it.

The 360 isn't selling well as it is, and raising the price and making it more feature filled will only hurt them. People will say "Well, I know Playstation, and for a $20 difference, I'd rather go with that than this 360". Hell, even for $120, it's going to be a lot easier to stomach the 60 gigs price. I honestly hope it's true :)

[Zer0-Sum]

Are there three diffrent version of the 360 now? If so that is also not a good thing.

[masteratt]

It's all about option :thumpsup:

Options to pick one of the three lacking hardwares.

Put all these three X360s into one and PS3 can up the quality for a lesser price :shrug:

This should be in the X360 thread by the way, it's hard ot tie this to the PS3.

I think Sony are probably wetting themselves at this..........laughing.

[Zer0-Sum]

Four? I thought it was three. And in the context of the thread it belongs here, but the context may very well get lost as the thread goes on....

[masteratt]

Ooops, my brain counted HD-DVD add-on as another X360 lol

I am very interested to see how this plays out for MS.

[Zer0-Sum]

Thats what I thought. Make me question my mind there masteratt. :buldge: Thought I waz slippin....

[FantasyGhost]

There's nothing to worry about, they still need to work on games for the other 2 360's. Which still means games no bigger then DVD, or multi-DVD's. No development of games with a HDD in mind.

[LiquidEagle]

Well if it is true, I'd definitely end up purchasing that model down the road when I get a hankerin' for a 360 purchase... image-wise I think it's not too smart of a move, but I don't want to debate MS's business in a Sony forum... Like it's been said though, I think this means a vindication of sorts for Sony, but I can also see it going the other way where people will compare just the hard drive size and think Sony is over-charging, and we've been down (and are still going down) that road....

[Applefiend]

Well, now there's a console that comes in two different colours I'm beginning to care less and less about.

It might get Sony to bump up the hdd size of the 60GB PS3 perhaps.

[masteratt]

^ Why?
You can just buy a HDD for the PS3 if you really need to up the 60GB since Sony is nice enough to let you use products without the Sony name on it.

Sony plays by it's own rules, not the competition's ;)

[Applefiend]

I was reaching. :)

I don't think it'll have much impact at all, although it'll impact me as as soon as the HDD gets cracked and they find out how to upgrade your 360 20MB HDD to 120GB I'm in. Lots of space for demos.

Shouldn't need to be cracked though, they should just let you do it like PS3.

[OmniCloud]

This would be bad image wise for MS....That's about it...won't really affect PS3 sells, don't think it would affect 360 sales either.

People who are buying it now are mostly hardcore gamers and tech-heads. Blu-ray keeps crapping on HD-DVD, 60gb is enough is more than enough for content, you can use many different storage devices for your PS3, and...really this is just too little too late for MS if ya ask me, but more choice can't hurt for people looking to pick up a 360, but it's kinda too late to compete with Sony now, it's all about the games from 2007 onwards.

[Garfunkel]

i suspect it will end up like the vista versions. with hundreds of different SKU's that just confuse and anger the consumer.

[woundingchaney]

I honestly dont see how this affects anything image wise. The PS2 went through a series of re-establishments/re-releases and that didnt seem to hamper its image. If anything I look for MS to phase out the current core or the premium model and keep the 2 sku strategy. I dont see how a consumer can become confused over the concept anymore than the differences between the low and high end PS3s.

Im willing to bet that this is directly related to their release of downloadable HD movie and other content, thus the hdmi port and the larger hdd.

[Red_Eyes]

This will not have any effect. Add-ons have never really done well in the past. Example: PS2 hard-drive, N64 ram pack, and all those Sega add-ons, etc. Consumers are not going to think, "OMG! An add-on!" It'll be more like, "OMG! An add-on! That's a rip off. Why didn't the 360 comes with it in the first place? Now I have to waste some more money to get some add-on?"

[woundingchaney]

This will not have any effect. Add-ons have never really done well in the past. Example: PS2 hard-drive, N64 ram pack, and all those Sega add-ons, etc. Consumers are not going to think, "OMG! An add-on!" It'll be more like, "OMG! An add-on! That's a rip off. Why didn't the 360 comes with it in the first place? Now I have to waste some more money to get some add-on?"

Well its not an add on, its a different sku.

[pari]

I honestly dont see how this affects anything image wise. The PS2 went through a series of re-establishments/re-releases and that didnt seem to hamper its image. If anything I look for MS to phase out the current core or the premium model and keep the 2 sku strategy. I dont see how a consumer can become confused over the concept anymore than the differences between the low and high end PS3s.

It does affect in one crucial area that is IPTV. MS is defining IPTV has a must have feature of 360 and guess what IPTV might need HDMI output for copyright protection issue. So what you do? All the 10 million are shafted. The PS2 arguement does not hold any water, the difference between PS2 and PStwo other than the form factor and built network where minor changes that did not affect any feature in a significant way. And importantly no older PS2 owner were excluded by addition of network interface, Whereas the difference between HDMI/non-HDMI is not so minor if you consider HD movie downloads and IPTV. The content owners are not interested if there is no DRM for their digital content (their greed is blinding them).


Im willing to bet that this is directly related to their release of downloadable HD movie and other content, thus the hdmi port and the larger hdd.

Agreed.

It would be interesting to see how MS spins this upgrade. After bad mouthing 1080p, HDMI and everything on PS3, its looking like MS trying to do a catch up. If MS spins this correctly, it would not look bad on MS but rather pretty good on them. "We are eagerly listening to the consumers and evaluating what they want, so giving them the features they most requested" With this tag line nobody can argue with MS about being wrong. Also they would add this to their marketing line, "100gb more and $20 lower" since this would make it feature parity with PS3 20gb except pooh-poohing the Blu-ray saying nobody wants it.

Honestly, if this releases for $479 without HD-DVD drive, MS is definitely trying to make money off the 360 and are not willing to lose money anymore. PS3 20Gb would be attractive in the sense of being $20 more but comes with Blu-ray drive built-in.

Price speculation based on today's price
For 360 with 120Gb, HDMI and HD-DVD drive,
$479(rumoured) + $200=$679

For PS3 20Gb model with HDMI, Blu-ray and 120Gb (user upgrade) would cost around $100 (from frys.com),
$499+ $100 = $599.

Who know by May timeframe, the Hard drives and HD-DVD drive could be even cheaper.

[woundingchaney]

It does affect in one crucial area that is IPTV. MS is defining IPTV has a must have feature of 360 and guess what IPTV might need HDMI output for copyright protection issue. So what you do? All the 10 million are shafted. The PS2 arguement does not hold any water, the difference between PS2 and PStwo other than the form factor and built network where minor changes that did not affect any feature in a significant way. And importantly no older PS2 owner were excluded by addition of network interface, Whereas the difference between HDMI/non-HDMI is not so minor if you consider HD movie downloads and IPTV. The content owners are not interested if there is no DRM for their digital content (their greed is blinding them).



Agreed.

It would be interesting to see how MS spins this upgrade. After bad mouthing 1080p, HDMI and everything on PS3, its looking like MS trying to do a catch up. If MS spins this correctly, it would not look bad on MS but rather pretty good on them. "We are eagerly listening to the consumers and evaluating what they want, so giving them the features they most requested" With this tag line nobody can argue with MS about being wrong. Also they would add this to their marketing line, "100gb more and $20 lower" since this would make it feature parity with PS3 20gb except pooh-poohing the Blu-ray saying nobody wants it.

Honestly, if this releases for $479 without HD-DVD drive, MS is definitely trying to make money off the 360 and are not willing to lose money anymore. PS3 20Gb would be attractive in the sense of being $20 more but comes with Blu-ray drive built-in.

Price speculation based on today's price
For 360 with 120Gb, HDMI and HD-DVD drive,
$479(rumoured) + $200=$679

For PS3 20Gb model with HDMI, Blu-ray and 120Gb (user upgrade) would cost around $100 (from frys.com),
$499+ $100 = $599.

Who know by May timeframe, the Hard drives and HD-DVD drive could be even cheaper.

Thats if they need the IPTV to begin with and still assuming that there isnt going to be a stand alone hdmi cable sold. The board may support a standalone hdmi port without needing this sku At this point thats really stretching the situation with quite a few "ifs".
--Although I believe the current port may be analog only, although Im not sure either way.

It is very comparable to the PS2 statement. We had slim line PS2s, PS2s with network adapters, different color PS2s, limited supply PS2s etc. There really is no functionality change in this model than there was with the other ones.

I wouldnt doubt that MS is on the verge of breaking even with the hardware if not making money at this point. I would think that the HD DVD drive would be incorporated into the sku but it being such hostile format war I wouldnt doubt it is indeed left out. None the less if the 480 USD does ring true it is very much over priced without the drive.

Its really a stand many expected MS to approach ever since the original announcement of multiple skus. I dont see any difference here than what other companies have done in the past, ridicule competition for feature X or feature Y and incorporate it down the road. There are several examples of Sony doing the same thing.

[FantasyGhost]

It will have an effct to the XBOX 360 premium boxes i think, maybe also the PS3.

I look at it that way...
People that read this will want to wait for Zephyr to come out on May 1, instead of buying the Premium. Sales for the XBOX 360 will go down, because of that, between now and May 1. It might have an effect in a lesser way for PS3 sales. If it comes out eventually on May 1, MS won't have a problem, sales will go back up again. If it doesn't, some people might call it a rip-off and might want to go with a PS3 instead.
And taking one sku away out of the 3 isn't a good idea, i think. When taking away the Premium version people with less money will want to buy the Core version instead. $180 gap between the 2 systems is rather big.

[cliffbo]

if MS do this it will be disastrous. the question should be: 'what impact will this have on consumers that have already bought the 360?' this and the certain debacle of HD-DVD would be fatal for MS.

[woundingchaney]

if MS do this it will be disastrous. the question should be: 'what impact will this have on consumers that have already bought the 360?' this and the certain debacle of HD-DVD would be fatal for MS.

I think your missing something Cliff.

[cliffbo]

I think your missing something Cliff.

what am i missing wounded :)

without the HD-DVD add on, whats the point in HDMI? what would that take the price up to? HD-DVD has failed wounding (and i'm not pointing this out to knock the 360... its a Toshiba thing) you must see the tight spot this put MS in. you can't knock the opposition on one hand, only to copy them on the other... its like shooting yourself in the foot.

[woundingchaney]

what am i missing wounded :)

Are you under the assumption that MS would be adopting the HD DVD format??

[cliffbo]

Are you under the assumption that MS would be adopting the HD DVD format??

no... read above, i edited my post slightly. HDMI would be mainly, if not totally for movies. if this goes ahead i would suggest that Toshiba have put pressure on MS to support their format, as they expected

[Garfunkel]

my theory is that, as soon as ms introduce this unit, sony will drop the 20GB unit and only ship the 60GB unit for the same price as the the 360's new sku, then release new sku with a 160 or so GB drive for 50-100 dollars more.

[pari]

Thats if they need the IPTV to begin with and still assuming that there isnt going to be a stand alone hdmi cable sold. The board may support a standalone hdmi port without needing this sku At this point thats really stretching the situation with quite a few "ifs".
--Although I believe the current port may be analog only, although Im not sure either way.

If my understanding is correct, you cannot do a stand alone hdmi port or converter because from encryption P.O.V it would be difficult. I believe this is the reason why all the content companies want analog output retired because its insecure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP

HDCP's main target is to prevent transmission of non-encrypted high definition content. Three systems were developed to achieve that goal:

1. Authentication process disallows non-licensed devices to receive HD content.
2. Encryption of the actual data sent over DVI or HDMI interface prevents eavesdropping of information. It also prevents "man in the middle" attacks.
3. Key revocation procedures ensure that devices manufactured by any vendors who violate the license agreement could be relatively easily blocked from receiving HD data.

Each HDCP capable device model has a unique set of keys; there are 40 keys, each 56 bits long. These keys are confidential and failure to keep them secret may be seen as a violation of the license agreement. For each set of keys a special key called a KSV (Key Selection Vector) is created. Each KSV has exactly 20 bits set to 0 and 20 bits set to 1.

During the authentication process, both parties exchange their KSVs. Then each device adds (without overflow) its own secret keys together according to a KSV received from another device. If a particular bit in the vector is set to 1, then the corresponding secret key is used in the addition, otherwise it is ignored. Keys and KSVs are generated in such a way that during this process both devices get the same 56 bit number as a result. That number is later used in the encryption process.

Encryption is done by a stream cipher. Each decoded pixel is encrypted by applying an XOR operation with a 24-bit number produced by a generator. The HDCP specifications ensure constant updating of keys (after each encoded frame).

This is the reason, why I believe there cannot be an addon HDMI port. And BTW, the HDCP encryption has been broken too. HDMI brings interesting feature set, but also the encryption required by the content companies. Analog ports cannot prevent "man in the middle" attack.


It is very comparable to the PS2 statement. We had slim line PS2s, PS2s with network adapters, different color PS2s, limited supply PS2s etc.

Tell me which one feature that was not available in any one of those PS2? For the older PS2, I had to buy an addon network interface to play online, slim line PS2 had builtin. HDMI is being made a big deal by the digital content companies. And if fact the HDCP development was led by Intel. I do not believe you can do addon HDMI port, once the signal is converted into analog, its not secure anymore. For this reason alone HDMI came into existence to secure the entire signal path, from source to receiver completely covered by DRM (and I personally do not like DRM).


I dont see any difference here than what other companies have done in the past, ridicule competition for feature X or feature Y and incorporate it down the road. There are several examples of Sony doing the same thing.

I would just prefer a concrete example or link to those source about Sony back pedaling. This would help to know about more things.

[cliffbo]

my theory is that, as soon as ms introduce this unit, sony will drop the 20GB unit and only ship the 60GB unit for the same price as the the 360's new sku, then release new sku with a 160 or so GB drive for 50-100 dollars more.

on the face of it, that appears to be a good move, but Sony wouldn't do that because it would appear to be a knee jerk reaction that give this move (if its true) some credibility. MS are making strategic mistakes lately that suggest desperation to me. baring in mind that MS are an intelligent company, having a site called 'Whats wrong with you?', claiming HD TV, HDMI and 1080p is impossible/unnecessary, indicates they are a little worried.

[woundingchaney]

If my understanding is correct, you cannot do a stand alone hdmi port or converter because from encryption P.O.V it would be difficult. I believe this is the reason why all the content companies want analog output retired because its insecure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP


This is the reason, why I believe there cannot be an addon HDMI port. And BTW, the HDCP encryption has been broken too. HDMI brings interesting feature set, but also the encryption required by the content companies. Analog ports cannot prevent "man in the middle" attack.

It wouldnt be an "add on" port. It would be a seperately sold connector, along the same lines of the vga cord. The main question remains if the connector on the 360 motherboard is analog only. And even then we have to assume that HDCP will be a requirement, that this must be done through hdmi (as to say there is no analog to digital conversion hdcp capabilities) and that there isnt a work around through the IPTV service itself (which I find most likely). Once again it is alot of ifs we are assuming here.
--Although the more Im reading the more Im thinking the 360 may currently have an analog port.



Tell me which one feature that was not available in any one of those PS2? For the older PS2, I had to buy an addon network interface to play online, slim line PS2 had builtin. HDMI is being made a big deal by the digital content companies. And if fact the HDCP development was led by Intel. I do not believe you can do addon HDMI port, once the signal is converted into analog, its not secure anymore. For this reason alone HDMI came into existence to secure the entire signal path, from source to receiver completely covered by DRM (and I personally do not like DRM).
I didnt say any feature wasnt available, but HDMI doesnt increase any functionality of the 360. Its simply a different video a feed. I can already display 1080p on my 360 currently. This skew adds the hdmi port and a larger hdd no known additional features that the early adopters are missing.




I would just prefer a concrete example or link to those source about Sony back pedaling. This would help to know about more things.

Check PR statements on Unified shaders, worldwide launches, motion sensing controllers, broadband unified online infrastructures, etc.

Im not going to offer links to all of this and turn this into an MS does this Sony does that flame fest. Be assured every company does it.

[pari]

It wouldnt be an "add on" port. It would be a seperately sold connector, along the same lines of the vga cord. The main question remains if the connector on the 360 motherboard is analog only. And even then we have to assume that HDCP will be a requirement, that this must be done through hdmi (as to say there is no analog to digital conversion hdcp capabilities) and that there isnt a work around through the IPTV service itself (which I find most likely). Once again it is alot of ifs we are assuming here.
--Although the more Im reading the more Im thinking the 360 may currently have an analog port.

HDCP requires hand shake, which is why I believe I do not analog to hdmi is possible, nor any converters or addons too.



I didnt say any feature wasnt available, but HDMI doesnt increase any functionality of the 360. Its simply a different video a feed. I can already display 1080p on my 360 currently. This skew adds the hdmi port and a larger hdd no known additional features that the early adopters are missing.

If IPTV requires HDCP, then early adopters would miss the feature. In Jan'0y Mr.Gates made a big presentation about IPTV and all the cool features about it. HDMI does provide one feature for the digital content owners, security and encryption. The non-HDMI port have to intentional down grade the quality if I remember correctly.


Check PR statements on Unified shaders, worldwide launches, motion sensing controllers, broadband unified online infrastructures, etc. Im not going to offer links to all of this and turn this into an MS does this Sony does that flame fest. Be assured every company does it.

I am very well assured about every company but none does it like MS, or just because I have followed MS for long to be skewed against MS. Sony did back flip on worldwide launch and eating crow on the Wii(so does MS, their flip-flop on wii is even really worse). I do not know about unified shaders. And I would not agree on regarding online.

[woundingchaney]

on the face of it, that appears to be a good move, but Sony wouldn't do that because it would appear to be a knee jerk reaction that give this move (if its true) some credibility. MS are making strategic mistakes lately that suggest desperation to me. baring in mind that MS are an intelligent company, having a site called 'Whats wrong with you?', claiming HD TV, HDMI and 1080p is impossible/unnecessary, indicates they are a little worried.

The "whats wrong with you site" wasnt created by MS.

[woundingchaney]

HDCP requires hand shake, which is why I believe I do not analog to hdmi is possible, nor any converters or addons too.




If IPTV requires HDCP, then early adopters would miss the feature. In Jan'0y Mr.Gates made a big presentation about IPTV and all the cool features about it. HDMI does provide one feature for the digital content owners, security and encryption. The non-HDMI port have to intentional down grade the quality if I remember correctly.



I am very well assured about every company but none does it like MS, or just because I have followed MS for long to be skewed against MS. Sony did back flip on worldwide launch and eating crow on the Wii(so does MS, their flip-flop on wii is even really worse). I do not know about unified shaders. And I would not agree on regarding online.

Which is the basis of the conversation "if". We are assuming IF IPTV requires HDCP, IF HDCP is ever going to be required for IPTV, IF the current 360 is incapable of a HDMI port, IF there is no work around for analog hdcp (which at this point the whole encryption is broken so who really knows what augmentations are going to be done in the future) IF this and that. There is no known increase in functionality that would hamper the early adopter. Which puts this on the level of the typical console revision.

If every company does it then why is it so necessary to point out MSs backpedaling as some kind of downfall. I cant help but see the whole better or worse scenario as very opinionated and convenient for console loyalties.

[pari]

The "whats wrong with you site" wasnt created by MS.

In the same league as Sony's PSP website "allIwantispsp" ?

[woundingchaney]

In the same league as Sony's PSP website "allIwantispsp" ?

Honestly Im not familiar with a PSP allIwantispsp site, I dont follow handhelds.

[jaxmkii]

LOL MS is making a BLACK HDMI 120 gig 360!!! OMG LOL! with a 500usd price tag?!!!

LOL whats next a SixanglE controller

[VideoGame mania]

I think it's an awesome deal, if you buy 5 additional 20 gb HDD for $100 each it would cost you a lot more. And with upcoming content and big d/loads like Shivering Isle and GTA 4 episodic content. It will come in handy, you will run out out space pretty quickly. Also if you like to d/l HD movies from LIVE 120gb is the only option. The 3 sku wont hurt MS just like iPod's don't hurt Apple. You have options either you buy it or not. How will the 120gb sku effect Sony? It will to some degree, but for the most part people buy systems for specific types of games. Bigger HDD is a big plus if you're a LIVE subscriber.

[woundingchaney]

Im thinking they are going to have to throw in a lot more shit than a larger hdd and hdmi for it to be worth an additional 80 usd.

[jaxmkii]

this is MS realising that they are falling behind in the tech race and playing catch up... all of the changes are things that MS sayed where not needed and chose to ditch inorder to get out early. now they are regreting the rushed money hat system 360 is.

[VideoGame mania]

^ 1 year Free live subscription

[jaxmkii]

^ 1 year Free live subscription

if you purchase a PS3 you get 10 years free PSN!

[Garfunkel]

i find it a bit funny how they said the ps3 was too expensive and would outprice it's way out of the market, and then they bring this out...

as much as i try to be fair, this is not exactly innovative.

[pari]

Which is the basis of the conversation "if". We are assuming IF IPTV requires HDCP, IF HDCP is ever going to be required for IPTV, IF the current 360 is incapable of a HDMI port, IF there is no work around for analog hdcp (which at this point the whole encryption is broken so who really knows what augmentations are going to be done in the future) IF this and that. There is no known increase in functionality that would hamper the early adopter. Which puts this on the level of the typical console revision.

AFAIK, no analog hdcp for sure. All encryptions are broken but still the companies keep plowing on..


If every company does it then why is it so necessary to point out MSs backpedaling as some kind of downfall. I cant help but see the whole better or worse scenario as very opinionated and convenient for console loyalties.

Its just because of their attitude, I have not read any interview other than MS exec(Mr.J Allard) which was quite disgusting. Nothing wrong in being competitive and its just business. And my question after I read that interview in Business week was WTF have you done anything innovative Mr. J Allard, to ask for Mr.KK's resignation letter? Have any vision other than following other's vision. The respect and courtesy was missing. I have not seen any MS exec even acknowledge or give respect to PS2 or competitor's product, whereas Sony exec has openly acknowledged or given the due credits to competitor's product. Mr.Gate's ridiculing the closed format of iPod and discrediting it at every turn, then following it with Zune. Why the heck did not MS come up Zune way before iPod, because they do not any vision. And this is the reason I dislike them more than anything else. Its not about console loyalties, its about supporting innovative companies who would bring interesting stuff not the followers or the imitators.

[cliffbo]

this is MS realising that they are falling behind in the tech race and playing catch up... all of the changes are things that MS sayed where not needed and chose to ditch inorder to get out early. now they are regreting the rushed money hat system 360 is.

thats about it fella ;) thats the message its sending out. Vista is MS's back door out... and they can take Live with them. Live is all they will have left. to me all of the pointers are indicating that MS is moving to plan B... very quietly so as not to upset third party devs. where's the xbox? can you imagine how devs must feel having coded for a machine and spent millions of dollars on a project only to find out that that console is no more?

[cliffbo]

if you purchase a PS3 you get 10 years free PSN!

and free repair for your broken PSP

[VideoGame mania]

Btw, MS has been experimenting with black more proof the 120gb could be true.

http://media.teamxbox.com/xbox-hardware/ss/71/1171668281.jpg

[Garfunkel]

i agree totally with you pari, but lets not turn this into a MS hate thread.

[jaxmkii]

i find it a bit funny how they said the ps3 was too expensive and would outprice it's way out of the market, and then they bring this out...

as much as i try to be fair, this is not exactly innovative.
in the end its only proving the PS3 is better as they try and prop up the 360 to compeat with the PS3...

as for the 120gig HDD in 360... Im willing to bet its cause devs are getting feed up with the limited space on DVD9. this is actualy good news for PS3 owners :cheers: as future mulitiplatform games may use Blu-ray disk to the max. while forcing 360 gamers to install in the newer 120gig HDD or if your stuck with the old 360 you get to play a disk changing mini game.

[cliffbo]

Btw, MS has been experimenting with black more proof the 120gb could be true.

http://media.teamxbox.com/xbox-hardware/ss/71/1171668281.jpg

MS really do annoy me (there i said it) why do you think they called it the 360? the 3 is the clue there (xbox2, PS3... perception) black? again perception... and please no body tell me this is not important, because it is. do people really think that these companies just cobble the aesthetics of a console together over lunch?

[Garfunkel]

that's also the reason why nintendo don't emply numbering.

btw: that top HD DVD addon looks somewhat photoshoped/gimped to me...might just be me.

[Rip3001]

MS: It's 360.5, you buy now!

360 Owner: But I already bought a 360 only a year ago-

MS: YOU BUY NOW!

[OmniCloud]

Well it isn't confirmed yet, and I've learned to take every rumor with a grain of salt. I say we still "wait and see" on this one.

True or not, it probably won't affect PS3 in any way...I think that's the gist of the argument from Sony's perspective. What will it do to MS and 360? Well that's a discussion to be had elsewhere.

[cliffbo]

Well it isn't confirmed yet, and I've learned to take every rumor with a grain of salt. I say we still "wait and see" on this one.

True or not, it probably won't affect PS3 in any way...I think that's the gist of the argument from Sony perspective. What will it do to MS and 360? Well that's a discussion to be had elsewhere.

Awwwww thats too sensible...

[OmniCloud]

Awwwww thats too sensible...No one else stepped up for the job yet;)

[cliffbo]

No one else stepped up for the job yet;)

point taken... ;)

[mario25]

Wasn't microsoft very critical about the price, and that there was no need for HDMI?. Is HD-DVD included in there?, price seems a bit high.....

[cliffbo]

Wasn't microsoft very critical about the price, and that there was no need for HDMI?. Is HD-DVD included in there?, price seems a bit high.....

i doubt that very much. it would be throwing money away

[Shogun042]

didn't one of those Factor 5 devs say that they didn't like 360 graphics chip because it was built around outputting an analog and not digital signal.

it's in one of those IGN interviews, i'll have to look around for it.

if this SKU was announced i'm guessing the core would go away.

and for IPTV, i thought external hardware was required to make that work, and maybe this black 360 would make that work?

i'm thinking this may help 360 sales but not necessarily hurt PS3 sales provided Sony gets those big first party exclusives out the door in a timely fashion.

[LiquidEagle]

Since when did this 360 model become black?

[Zer0-Sum]

Since when did this 360 model become black?

When Microsoft realized that white so much LAMER than black.:laugh: We all know that PS3 is teh Sexy.

[Chris Metal]

Why confuse people even another version of the console? Not everyone wants to compare, most average joe won't understand the differences or the advantages it'll bring them in general. 2 different versions are pushing it, why I'm glad only the 60GB version is being released here, less confusion with making a choice. Stick with what you've got MS...

[[[tavis]]]

I am calling it now. a great move for M$. it will not be this much, nintendo made their shit into a silver one and a black one and it bumped their sold numbers considerably. thats without adding ANYTHING to it. this new 360 will have the above features but with a quieter and faster dvd drive. great move, also i garuntee it will not be this price, especially with the cost going down.

[IEatFriedPikmin]

i agree with tavis. i think they are looking at nintendo.... not trying to play catch up with sony. nintendo always releases multiple colors. they release new and improved models of existing hardware, and it always does quite well.

it can only help m$, and to me it gives them more of an edge against sony.

[VideoGame mania]

];1415556']I am calling it now. a great move for M$. it will not be this much, nintendo made their shit into a silver one and a black one and it bumped their sold numbers considerably. thats without adding ANYTHING to it. this new 360 will have the above features but with a quieter and faster dvd drive. great move, also i garuntee it will not be this price, especially with the cost going down.

what do you mean faster drive, it's already pretty fast. They need to fix their hardware issues, it's the top priority.
you guarantee what? you know the price or do you have a confirmation from MS that the 120gb is indeed coming?

[[[tavis]]]

what do you mean faster drive, it's already pretty fast. They need to fix their hardware issues, it's the top priority.
you guarantee what? you know the price or do you have a confirmation from MS that the 120gb is indeed coming?

they already announced the new BenQ drives are ffaster and quieter.


"Good news if you're in the market for a new 360. Microsoft is putting an end to all those "my 360 is too loud" complaints. They've stopped using the Toshiba-Samsung and Hitachi-LG drives (found inside current 360s) and have started replacing them with BenQ's quieter VAD6038, which is based on a Philips design. The new drive is also said to load games a bit faster. Great news for newcomers, as for the rest of us—it's back to the whirring"
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/xbox-360-gets-a-new-quieter-drive-234276.php



and looking at price cuts in production it makes NO sense to havea +450 price point. they need to drop the price of the 20gb.core and start really pushing units. Gates said they are in it for the long run, why not try to win the race in the 2nd mile.



honestly unless they do this I do not see a huge impact on the ps3. they needed to announce this pre-holiday to affect the ps3 "rush"

[VideoGame mania]

]and looking at price cuts in production it makes NO sense to havea +450 price point. they need to drop the price of the 20gb.core and start really pushing units. Gates said they are in it for the long run, why not try to win the race in the 2nd mile.
So you're saying there will be no 3rd SKU and MS will try to push more hardware with a price drop ?
They sure need bigger hardrive and $100 per 20gb is insane. What do you have to say about that ?

[[[tavis]]]

So you're saying there will be no 3rd SKU and MS will try to push more hardware with a price drop ?
They sure need bigger hardrive and $100 per 20gb is insane. What do you have to say about that ?


nonononono (was that too many no's for the rules of this forum? haha), read my post. I said they need to make the HDMI one 450 or less. otherwise they are playing the "for so much more money you get this" game. Not worth it. someone posted that this gen is all about pricepoint and that is 100% true. wii sold alot and sony sold moderately compared to expected sales. 360 wasn't effected by this due to its solo release.


and yes 20gb for 100$ is redick. honestly.

Regardless of the price point I personally know around ten people that will buy the HDMI. audio heads. and a unified connector.

[Rip3001]

i agree with tavis.

IEatFriedPikmin with the hot tag. :luigi:

This whole move stinks of "me too." If Microsoft was "looking at Nintendo" they would have done a pink, sky blue, orange, and clear sparkles 360...not a Jet Black 360 with chrome trim and HDMI port.

[IEatFriedPikmin]

its kinda bad when i cant tell if you are being sarcastic or not... and im talking about the latter part.

Microsoft has been complimenting Nintendo over the past year or so frequently. It makes sense that they would be looking to them more than it would be too sony, which currently isnt doing so great. This new version of the 360 is what the DS Lite is to the DS Phat. The only thing that could possibly hurt microsoft is price. its easy to purchase a 2nd DS just because its better, but i find it difficult purchasing a 2nd 360.

[Rip3001]

Microsoft has been complimenting Nintendo over the past year or so frequently. It makes sense that they would be looking to them more than it would be too sony

List more commonalities the new Black Xbox 360.5 has with Nintendo than the Sony Playstation 3...

1) Black with chrome trim

2) HDMI Port

3) Large HDD

[pari]

i agree with tavis. i think they are looking at nintendo.... not trying to play catch up with sony. nintendo always releases multiple colors. they release new and improved models of existing hardware, and it always does quite well.

Nintendo has always done that in portable gaming arena, more than in console arena. GC did come in different colors later but no significant increase in feature set or any improvement to the hardware other the usual shrink.


it can only help m$, and to me it gives them more of an edge against sony.

To me it looks like they are following Sony by adding feature set and trying to close the gap, instead of giving any edge. Different people different perception.

[masteratt]

You are delusional if you think this is MS 'looking at Nintendo'.

This is obviously MS trying to catch up with the features of the PS3.

If they were looking at Nintendo, they would release a Wii-mote kind of thing, not bigger HDD and a HDMI Port which is what PS3 has that X360 doesn't.
And to top it off they are making it black too.

Microsoft has been complimenting Nintendo over the past year or so frequently.
That was to hurt Sony, not to compliment Nintendo.
MS was trying to push the whole Wii60 image.

[pari]

Microsoft has been complimenting Nintendo over the past year or so frequently. It makes sense that they would be looking to them more than it would be too sony, which currently isnt doing so great. This new version of the 360 is what the DS Lite is to the DS Phat. The only thing that could possibly hurt microsoft is price. its easy to purchase a 2nd DS just because its better, but i find it difficult purchasing a 2nd 360.

Really, MS complimenting Nintendo, its delusion. In a recent interview (within the last month) Mr.Bill G did not have any nice words for Nintendo and Sony. All the Peter Moore talk about wii60 was a ploy to deflect the attention from PS3. Now that Wii is doing lot better than anybody expected including MS, there is no compliments from MS.

The DS Lite was more of a refinement over DS phat, not addition of any feature set.

[IEatFriedPikmin]

^there were making compliments after the Wii became successful.

you guys are talking as if this is complete fact. you seem more paranoid than anything.

Lots of things are black. Lots of things have HDMI now. Lots of things have larger HDD than the 360.

[masteratt]

Why do you have to deny that MS is playing catch-up with Sony? :dur:
It's pretty blatant.

I don't care if they copy Sony, they are just messing their own image for the reasons I stated here. (http://forums.e-mpire.com/showpost.php?p=1415005&postcount=12)

[IEatFriedPikmin]

You have a lot of assumptions and opinions in that post that i dont think a lot of people would agree with.

I dont see why you guys are jumping to conclusions.

You guys act like sony invented HDMI and black consoles.

[LiquidEagle]

One of the fellas who works at the Target by my store was talking with me today about this "Zephyr," and he's also convinced that it's not only real, but it'll have an HD-DVD drive in it (for movies). Interesting to think about... Since Blu-Ray is really giving HD-DVD the spanking atm with PS3 (obviously) selling better than the HD-DVD add-on for 360 (which is the highest selling HD-DVD player), pressure might be on MS to pull some sh** off and make this new one with HD-DVD playback capabilities. We'll see... I think if we hear something about it, it'll be at GDC. Not sure what it has to do with Game Development, but it'll probably be there :laugh:

If it is true, it's very obvious that it's an attempt to close the hardware gap with the PS3. Honestly, if MS was taking hints or advice from Nintendo and their business model, beefing up the hardware would probably be the furthest thing from step 1.

[masteratt]

You guys act like sony invented HDMI and black consoles.
Yes, Sony did invent Black consoles with HDMI since when X360 came out MS didn't include it and probably never even thought about it until they heard about Sony doing it and at first they were like "It's pointless buzz word crap" but now that they are doing it because they realise it makes the console future proof they will probably go around saying HDMI is a god-sent for HD.

I fucking hate MS.

[pari]

^there were making compliments after the Wii became successful.

you guys are talking as if this is complete fact. you seem more paranoid than anything.

Lots of things are black. Lots of things have HDMI now. Lots of things have larger HDD than the 360.

All I remember is the flip-flop of MS towards Wii. I was not able to get the interview of Mr.Bill Gates from news.com in which he made not so kind remarks.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.06/xbox_pr.html


In January, Allard and the rest of the Xbox senior executives gathered to write brief statements on what motivates them to come to work every morning. The mission: to inspire the group's rank and file. "Most people put down flowery, make-the-world-a-better-place, Miss America types of things," Allard says. "I wrote: What gets me out of bed and into the office every day is the thought of Ken Kutaragi's resignation letter, framed, hanging next to my desk."

So who is Mr J. Allard trying to follow?

[Shogun042]

i really doubt the "Zephyr" will come with an HD DVD drive.

i'll give it to them though M$ is marketing the 360 much better to the average joe.

[pari]

You have a lot of assumptions and opinions in that post that i dont think a lot of people would agree with.

If you are saying we are making assumptions and opinions, then sure, you do have an alternate assumptions and opinions.


I dont see why you guys are jumping to conclusions.

And are you not jumping into any conclusions either?

You guys act like sony invented HDMI and black consoles.[/QUOTE]

Its not the question of black color, its the question of pooh-poohing HDMI and not required for graphics blah blah and then changing tracks. All the rumours about MS products have become true because either intentional release the info or they leak like a sieve.

[IEatFriedPikmin]

Yes, Sony did invent Black consoles with HDMI since when X360 came out MS didn't include it and probably never even thought about it until they heard about Sony doing it and at first they were like "It's pointless buzz word crap" but now that they are doing it because they realise it makes the console future proof they will probably go around saying HDMI is a god-sent for HD.

I ing MS.

thats not what i said. that was more of an ignorant comment than anything.

I wouldnt be suprised if it included HD-DVD play back in order to help boost hd dvd sales.

maybe they are adding HDMI to satisfy those who want it. Nintendo doesnt believe in high-def, yet they allow people to purchase component cables. Even if they do go back on their word, every company does that. I notice Sony doing it A LOT when it comes to the playstation.

sorry, but its pointless debating with most of you guys... im not gonna go into p.iss-mode like jvd probably did... but i can now understand why he acted the way he did against you guys. And why the heck is this in the ps3 section anyways?

[masteratt]

but i can now understand why he acted the way he did against you guys.
Because he was wrong and all he could do was refuse the facts with stupid MS fan-boy like views(?).

I have no idea how my post could be received as ignorant, please shed some light on your statement.

[Hrama]

Hmmm interesting! Just a little while ago, at my job, (Yes, I work at a game store...) corporate sent us a new list of items that had to have prices changed on them (Ya know, update the prices of all of our used/new games) And low and behold... what was sitting at the bottom of the list but none other than "X360-Black-HDMI-120Gig: $479" Very interesting. This may have just a bit of credibility to it...

[Shogun042]

it'd make a lot of sense to put in an HD DVD drive to boost sales because to the average consumer that eliminates one of PS3s advantages, HD movie play back. the selection of movies is something else entirely.

they'd have to drop the price on the HD DVD add to like $80 though, can't see that happening.

[Zer0-Sum]

How can this be like Nintendo? it is clearly a swipe at the PS3. Call it what you want, but Microsoft is looking to damage the PS3 as much as possible. They messed up on the tech side of things and this is how they fix it. After dissing the PS3's HDD, the HDMI port, and the 1080p resolution, Microsoft has patently done them ALL. Diss them when Sony does it, call it genius when they do it themselves. It is a terrible case of them falling short when Sony was the brave on to go forward with all the next gen tech they could stuff into the PS3. LAME. And I still maintain that it creates two camps of 360 owners, if not three. How is that good? It has never been good to do so in the console world. If it was at all like Nintendo, they would have changed to color to say pink and black and made it sleeker by design and then called it good. But no, they have to go and do everything they called Sony stupid for.:tardbang:

[Shogun042]

Hmmm interesting! Just a little while ago, at my job, (Yes, I work at a game store...) corporate sent us a new list of items that had to have prices changed on them (Ya know, update the prices of all of our used/new games) And low and behold... what was sitting at the bottom of the list but none other than "X360-Black-HDMI-120Gig: $479" Very interesting. This may have just a bit of credibility to it...


^ yeah that is pretty interesting.

i don't think it'll come with HD DVD though, maybe just black matching drive like we've seen in pictures.

[IEatFriedPikmin]

Because he was wrong and all he could do was refuse the facts with stupid MS fan-boy like views(?).

I have no idea how my post could be received as ignorant, please shed some light on your statement.

He knew a lot of things, and his reasonings were clear.

I am not going to say why i found your post ignorant, because you have stupid Sony fan-boy like views and wouldnt understand.

[masteratt]

^ "Yeah i am posting this to say i am not gonna respond to you". what's the point. if you are not going to respon then don't....get on topic.
^ yeah that is pretty interesting retarded.

I also realised May is a horrible reason to release this.
PS3 would have established itself by then and many people will shrug this off as a PS3 wannabe.

[IEatFriedPikmin]

my point proven again.

[pari]

thats not what i said. that was more of an ignorant comment than anything.

I wouldnt be suprised if it included HD-DVD play back in order to help boost hd dvd sales.

And do you know why MS is more interested in HD-DVD its not because its anti-Sony, it because MS technology is in HD-DVD. So much for MS saying Sony is pushing their own proprietary format(false, blu-ray is consortium based not Sony's proprietary). MS is pushing its own proprietary technology, so is not that a double standard?

Info about HDi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDi_Interactive_Format



sorry, but its pointless debating with most of you guys... im not gonna go into p.iss-mode like jvd probably did... but i can now understand why he acted the way he did against you guys.

JVD, I do not even want to go there. Trying to teach me about microprocessor design

Here is, J. Allards view about Wii controller.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=12101


Xbox corporate VP J Allard has criticised Nintendo's "freestyle" Revolution controller, claiming that he had a similar idea which was rejected after consultation with gamers and developers.

Speaking to US website Gameinformer, Allard said the controller was "Well intentioned" but argued that he couldn't see it being used to play sports or racing games.

"I don't think most Electronic Arts games are going to be played with that thing, I think they're going to be designed for the classic controller," he added.

"Four years ago I wrote an email treaty and said, 'Why aren't accelerometers in remote controls? Why can't I scroll down my channel guide with a gesture instead of up, up, up, up?"" Allard revealed.

"We did a lot of research with gamers, talked to a lot of game developers and said, 'Should we put an accelerometer in there and do the tilt thing?' And there wasn't that much enthusiasm around it."

Then why the F**k did they not release it earlier ? Might be they wanted some other company to trailblaze it for them.

Like I said earlier, I am pro innovation and support innovation.

[masteratt]

my point proven again.
You don't think dissing something with pashion for three months and then doing the same a month or two later is retarded?

Okay sir. I bow to your intelligence :rolleyes:
And stop posting crap and respond to something in the thread instead of trying to bring me down.

[The Dude]

I think its a good idea for Microsoft to bring out the Zypher. It targets the hardcore high end gamers that spend $$$$ on home theaters that want to get the most out of an online gaming experience, hence the 120gb hard drive. You people are way too hostile.

[pari]

If it was at all like Nintendo, they would have changed to color to say pink and black and made it sleeker by design and then called it good. But no, they have to go and do everything they called Sony stupid for.:tardbang:

Nintendo philosophy is very different, they are primarily a gaming company unlike Sony and MS. So they are not interested in loss leadership business plans. If they do not make with their console, they do not lose money with their console either. Of all the three consoles out there right now, I believe only Nintendo is not losing money on the console.

[IEatFriedPikmin]

i apologize for getting hostile.


seriously.

[Zer0-Sum]

Nintendo philosophy is very different, they are primarily a gaming company unlike Sony and MS. So they are not interested in loss leadership business plans. If they do not make with their console, they do not lose money with their console either. Of all the three consoles out there right now, I believe only Nintendo is not losing money on the console.

That is my point completely pari. Nintendo does not do a redesign like Microsoft may very well be doing withe the 360. They may change color schemes which is cheap or add a stronger back light to say the DS. But I digress, it seems we are on the same page completely.

PS: By saying "They" in the last sentence of the post you quoted I meant Microsoft, not Nintendo.

I think its a good idea for Microsoft to bring out the Zypher. It targets the hardcore high end gamers that spend $$$$ on home theaters that want to get the most out of an online gaming experience, hence the 120gb hard drive. You people are way too hostile.

I think most of us are hostile towards Microsoft because for months now we have heard the execs like Allard spout off again and again about how the HDMI port is unnecessary, 1080p is not needed and the HDD is excessive. And then they go and do it all.

[pari]

That is my point completely pari. Nintendo does not do a redesign like Microsoft may very well be doing withe the 360. They may change color schemes which is cheap or add a stronger back light to say the DS. But I digress, it seems we are on the same page completely.

PS: By saying "They" in the last sentence of the post you quoted I meant Microsoft, not Nintendo.

Sorry, I used too many "They" instead of Nintendo and came round about to agreeing to your point.

[The Dude]

I think most of us are hostile towards Microsoft because for months now we have heard the execs like Allard spout off again and again about how the HDMI port is unnecessary, 1080p is not needed and the HDD is excessive. And then they go and do it all.

What's wrong with that? So, they tried to defend their position for not having HDMI and 1080p and such, big deal. They didn't think their target market wanted to pay extra for those things, but it turns out they do. People get things wrong all the time. What is important here is that Microsoft probably found out that all those extras are important to some people... and that those people have money to burn. There is nothing wrong with giving your market what it wants, its how they stay in business after all :)

[Zer0-Sum]

What's wrong with that? So, they tried to defend their position for not having HDMI and 1080p and such, big deal. They didn't think their target market wanted to pay extra for those things, but it turns out they do. People get things wrong all the time. What is important here is that Microsoft probably found out that all those extras are important to some people... and that those people have money to burn. There is nothing wrong with giving your market what it wants, its how they stay in business after all :)

Nothing wrong with it at all. In fact I would expect it to happen as they would be dumb not too. Nothing wrong with that at all. It was the endless shit talking and FUD spreading coming from Microsoft talking crap of Sony's strategy and PS3. Allard talked so much shit on all the these things that you could make a mountain out of it. In the end Kutaragi was right, 360 was X-Box 1.5. Microsoft just proved it by upgrading. Good for them, but was it necessary to throw a dump truck load of FUD at the world against PS3? They just prove them selves to be low and nasty like I know they are.

Sorry, I used too many "They" instead of Nintendo and came round about to agreeing to your point.

No problem my man, no harm no foul. Peace.....

[pari]

Nothing wrong with it at all. In fact I would expect it to happen as they would be dumb not too. Nothing wrong with that at all. It was the endless shit talking and FUD spreading coming from Microsoft talking crap of Sony's strategy and PS3. Allard talked so much shit on all the these things that you could make a mountain out of it. In the end Kutaragi was right, 360 was X-Box 1.5. Microsoft just proved it by upgrading. Good for them, but was it necessary to throw a dump truck load of FUD at the world against PS3? They just prove them selves to be low and nasty like I know they are.

The X-box 1.5 reminded me of this article about Ken Kutaragi's kraziness (rhyming with K)

http://www.shacknews.com/extras/kutaragi/070705_kutaragi_01.x

Hope after this updated release, Kutaragi is vindicated. He was dinged really badly for making the version 1.5 comment. And we have Mr J. Allard going around the best thing to happen for MS, "THE" Man with the vision. A bunch for marketing BS written as the cover article for Business week.

[masteratt]

This time, Microsoft has stated clearly that it is going after PlayStation. However, they're going not after the PlayStation 3, but the PlayStation 2. They were looking at 2, and that's why [Xbox 360] became like that.
Yep, exactly.
And now they looked at PS3 and are upgrading accordingly.

Tip to MS: You are not going to go anywhere without your own vision.

They'll be running around chasing their own tail making rushed plans while Sony stays calm and wise.

That's what this situation showed to me the most. It's all a matter of time before everything turns into what it should be.

[Zer0-Sum]

I am sorry to say it and it sounds like I am flaming on Microsoft but it is how they operate. For years I have seen it happen time and time again. They talk shit on their competition. Like Linus for example. They try to make people think it is crap, that the security is crap, that Linux is just plain inferior in every way. Then what do they do? They invest in Linux with Novell. HAH!!!! Jerks.

Same with PS3. Same with Firefox. The list is so long it is all most impossible to follow it. It will happen again and again. That is how Microsoft operates. I should not be surprised in the slightest.

[IEatFriedPikmin]

thats how just about EVERY major business operates. Most businesses out there exist to make money, not to make the best image out of themselves.

[Zer0-Sum]

thats how just about EVERY major business operates. Most businesses out there exist to make money, not to make the best image out of themselves.

I understand that. But does Nintendo talk as much FUD as Microsoft? No they do not. Sony does make snide remarks about the competition, but Microsoft wages a war of FUD and shit talking. I don't expect any company to be kind to their perceived competition, but Microsoft has a long history of just being out and out nasty and mean. It is not my opinion, it is a cold hard fact. The are double sided shit talking jerks who talk shit on one thing and then do it. And after THEY do it it is all of a sudden GENIUS.

BTW, this thread should be closed. Every point everyone wanted to make has been made.

[Red_Eyes]

So it's a different SKU? But won't this just make the early adoptors feels like they've been ripped off and screwed over? So I don't see how this will afffect the PS3.

[frosty]

Guys, let's keep this to PS3 based discussion. This is more a general gaming thread.