Miyamoto Tells 3rd Parties What's Up.

[TheGreenElf]

Source (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=13263)
If there's only one piece of advice that I could give to the managers of third party companies, it would be that a lot of times it seems that when they're putting games out on Nintendo hardware, those games are being developed by their third-string team or their fourth-string team. Maybe that's because they see those products as being unique projects or somewhat smaller-scale projects. But when Nintendo puts out a title that is designed to really support and sell its hardware, that title is always developed by one of our number one teams. And so I think that when it comes to the question of trying to compete with our software, I would really like to see the parties try to do that with their number one teams rather than with the third- or fourth-string teams.

Also talked about was his reaction to Sony's HOME and LittleBigPlanet, and why he welcomes the idea of other companies innovating in the same vein as Nintendo. You can read the interview in its entirety here (Nintendo World Report).

Anyone disagree? Didn't think so...so get on the ball 3rd parties.

[koten]

Third parties really should get to work. There's a lot more that can be done on the Wii and they need to step up or step aside.

[Bowser]

I think that home and LittleBigPlanet are reactive moves, as they are borrowing from other games to create their vision(The Sims and Second Life come to mind). Also, I think it is a bit anti-social, as you can get lost doing things in that environment that you could easily do in the real world-(watching movies, for instance).

What Miyamoto said about third parties is absolutely true though, because they give us these lame brained efforts like, oh say- Far Cry: Vengeance and expect US to buy; and then when we don't, they decide that it is because we don't LIKE their products, when really we are objecting to the quality of their crappy ports. Good on him for mentioning it.

[Zeep]

I'm always really annoyed that whenever I play a third-party game I always seem to have to ask myself why the game isn't as polished as a first-party Nintendo game. Even top of the line 3rd party games, like SSX Blur, I just get this feeling, "If Nintendo had made this..."

And it's always little things like menu interfaces, loading screens, etc. Even first party games from Nintendo that get 6's and 7's always seem to feel more "polished" to me than third party games that get 8's or 9's.

[Lynk Former]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/lynk/shiggycanfly.jpg

[Khaos]

I'm always really annoyed that whenever I play a third-party game I always seem to have to ask myself why the game isn't as polished as a first-party Nintendo game. Even top of the line 3rd party games, like SSX Blur, I just get this feeling, "If Nintendo had made this..."

And it's always little things like menu interfaces, loading screens, etc. Even first party games from Nintendo that get 6's and 7's always seem to feel more "polished" to me than third party games that get 8's or 9's.

Haha, yeah, I find myself saying the same thing. Because if it's made by Nintendo, I have a certain standard in my head about how the game feels and looks and is presented. Nintendo is synonymous with high quality and focusing on even the little things to create a great game in every aspect.

[Phoenix]

I kind of agree, Nintendo seems to have much more pride in their games. If third parties could do this on Nintendo consoles, that would be awesome. I haven't loved a third-party game since the Gamecube.

[IEatFriedPikmin]

Nintendo has almost always gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to 3rd parties.... it makes me cry

[The_Cat]

I haven't loved a third-party game since the Gamecube.

I seriously can't even remember the last great 3rd-party game for a Nintendo console. Shiggy has a really good point.

There is a term for what 3rd-party developers are doing, but I can't think of it right now. It describes what happens when somebody thinks they know what the outcome is going to be, so they subconsciously take steps that cause the outcome they predicted (ex. developers think their games won't sell well on a Nintendo console so they make uninspired games).

[venomv]

Nintendo has a history of not being kind to third parties, I think that has changed, but some people can hold a grudge for a while.

[Xer0]

I seriously can't even remember the last great 3rd-party game for a Nintendo console.

RE4...but that's about it unless your willing to jump back to Skies of Arcadia and what not or if your willing to consider MGS:TT third party or not since it was developed by SK when they were a Nintendo second party. But yea, i totally agree with him.

[TheGreenElf]

I seriously can't even remember the last great 3rd-party game for a Nintendo console.

Are you serious? You need to open your eyes then...
Resident Evil 4 (And 0 and 1)
Beyond Good and Evil
Prince of Persia (At least the first one)
Splinter Cell (Again...at least the first one)
Ikaruga
Goblin Commander (though I just started through this game).
Tales of Symphonia
Baten Katios (At least from what I hear)
Soul Calibur II
Viewtiful Joe
Billy Hatcher

I could name more (especially from DS), but I think my point is across. Although these are the more exceptional ones, I'm just pointing out that your statement was a bit farfetched.

Nintendo has a history of not being kind to third parties, I think that has changed, but some people can hold a grudge for a while.

That is true...I can understand some of the companies though...When they do release a great title, it still only makes minimal sales compared to a Nintendo franchise on the same console...so it's partially the Nintendo fans' fault.

[venomv]

That is true...I can understand some of the companies though...When they do release a great title, it still only makes minimal sales compared to a Nintendo franchise on the same console...so it's partially the Nintendo fans' fault.

Yeah, a lot of Nintendo fans are extremely loyal to Nintendo's first party, which is a double egded sword.

More first party software sales, but less third party sales (which still equals money for Nintendo), so less willingness to put a lot of money into games for Nintendo's consoles, so lower quality third party games, equals less hardware sales for those of us who aren't huge fans of Nintendo's first party, which means less software sales all around.....

[The_Cat]

Are you serious? You need to open your eyes then...
Resident Evil 4 (And 0 and 1)
Beyond Good and Evil
Prince of Persia (At least the first one)
Splinter Cell (Again...at least the first one)
Ikaruga
Goblin Commander (though I just started through this game).
Tales of Symphonia
Baten Katios (At least from what I hear)
Soul Calibur II
Viewtiful Joe
Billy Hatcher

I could name more (especially from DS), but I think my point is across. Although these are the more exceptional ones, I'm just pointing out that your statement was a bit farfetched.

Out of that entire list I will give you 1. Resident Evil 4. The rest are all good games, but not great. Obviously you throw the word great around a lot more loosely than I do.

Also, I thought I mentioned that I was talking about home consoles in my previous post. If not, I meant to add that in there. I haven't played enough DS and GBA to give an educated opinion on handhelds.

[venomv]

I would call at least 4 of those great. SC2, PoP, RE4, and Viewtiful Joe.

[Bowser]

Nintendo has almost always gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to 3rd parties.... it makes me cry

It wasn't always that way, though. I recall during the NES and S-NES eras a certain devotion to quality in the best third-parties that is unmatched today. Having said that, there are a lot of third-party gems out there of outstanding quality- you just have to know where to look for them. Most of my GameCube games are made by third parties, so they are out there.

[P.B.]

Nintendo does set a high bar though, and third parties seem to be more interested in just pumping out games with name appeal to sell mass quantities, not worrying so much about the quality, because they don't need to keep their specific system afloat. There are a few exceptions, but right now it seems too many publishers may be under the impression that wii is for short bursts of gaming as opposed to the long adventures, with large quality staffs and high budgets to back

[Black Dragon37]

Hmm. Nintendo put no effort into their hardware, and now they're pissed that third parties aren't putting effort into their limited hardware. That's a head scratcher all right.

[Lynk Former]

Hmm. Nintendo put no effort into their hardware, and now they're pissed that third parties aren't putting effort into their limited hardware. That's a head scratcher all right.
Hmm, guy walks into thread and makes up stuff to sound good. That's to be expected I guess.

It's funny though, you could take what you said and spin it around the other way... for example.

Hmm. Sony put too much emphasis in the power of their hardware, and now they're pissed that third parties are making their games multiplatform in order to ensure profits are made instead of sticking to a single platform that bleeds them dry with their budgets. That's a head scratcher all right.

*looks around* What? Do people really think that there is only one kind of game that can be made? The games where it looks and feels just exactly like a movie?...

[Black Dragon37]

Spin it the other way?

It's a three-way battle here. Aren't you forgetting something? ;)

[Lynk Former]

No, not really... the PS3 and Xbox360 offer a similar experience... they do have their strengths and weaknesses but in terms of major defining attributes you could place the PS3 and 360 together and Wii separately since Wii takes a very different approach to this.

I'm not talking about the whole Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo "war" thing here at all.

[TheGreenElf]

Hmm. Nintendo put no effort into their hardware, and now they're pissed that third parties aren't putting effort into their limited hardware. That's a head scratcher all right.

A new way to play while sacraficing some graphical power for a sub-$200 price point is no effort...:corky:

[Teh Roxor!]

Hmm. Nintendo put no effort into their hardware, and now they're pissed that third parties aren't putting effort into their limited hardware. That's a head scratcher all right.
Certainly, they made a bigger effort to offer something new than Sony and Microsoft did. As with the DS, the full potential of that difference will be realized if more third parties work harder to make new, fresh games for it.

Don't make baseless claims like "Nintendo put no effort into developing the Wii." That's ridiculous.

[Black Dragon37]

A new way to play while sacrificing some graphical power for a sub-$200 price point is no effort...:corky:They could've done both. Without much effort, if any.

It would spread its message more, if you ask me.

The way I see it, if you don't like what your competition are doing, you beat them at their own game.

@Teh Roxor: The DS came out before the PSP did, so obviously it's got a good excuse to lack power compared to it. Nevertheless, I'm glad it's whooping the PSP's ass right now. Sony need to step up their game.

@Link Former: I get you. :)

[Danji]

They launched within weeks of each other in Japan so no, there is no excuse for the DS's poorer graphics. It's not like the DS has to fill more pixels because it has two screens either. Add the res. together and they have less fillrate demand than the PSP does. That means that everything would be (if they tried) up to par with the PSP if not better if they invested the hardware in it to do so. But yea..the PSP is in desperate need of help from Sony already.

I think it's fairly accurate to say that they aren't investing as much manpower into their games because they don't think it will sell well on a Nintendo system. I wonder how many people are on the dev team that's bringing Prince of Persia: Two Thrones over.

Oh, and in case it's not apparent Black Dragon is an Xbox fanboy, not a Sony.

[Black Dragon37]

No no, lol.

[koten]

They could've done both. Without much effort, if any.

It would spread its message more, if you ask me.

The way I see it, if you don't like what your competition are doing, you beat them at their own game.

@Teh Roxor: The DS came out before the PSP did, so obviously it's got a good excuse to lack power compared to it. Nevertheless, I'm glad it's whooping the PSP's ass right now. Sony need to step up their game.

@Link Former: I get you. :)

They launched within weeks of each other in Japan so no, there is no excuse for the DS's poorer graphics. It's not like the DS has to fill more pixels because it has two screens either. Add the res. together and they have less fillrate demand than the PSP does. That means that everything would be (if they tried) up to par with the PSP if not better if they invested the hardware in it to do so. But yea..the PSP is in desperate need of help from Sony already.

I think it's fairly accurate to say that they aren't investing as much manpower into their games because they don't think it will sell well on a Nintendo system. I wonder how many people are on the dev team that's bringing Prince of Persia: Two Thrones over.

Oh, and in case it's not apparent Black Dragon is an Xbox fanboy, not a Sony.What you fail to see is that improving visuals would mean more powerful chips, more expensive production costs and inevitably a higher pricetag. This would cripple the system's appeal and lead less people to throw down that initial money in order to get the system.

Nintendo does not market their products as graphics powerhouses. As such, people don't mind the lower visuals because they get what the expect. The new and intuative way to play games is the selling point of the systems and the lower pricepoint helps people in throwing down their hard earned money for entertainment.

You may want graphics and this, that and the other thing, but most people don't care. This is obvious by the DS flat out kicking the PSPs ass (even in Japan where the PSP launched before the DS) and the Wii selling out shipment after shipment 6 months after launch.

Nintendo is a business and they made what was quite possibly the most risky decission ever. To do something different. That has clearly paid off to no end because both systems are going strong and show no signs of slowing down.

Now, Nintendo only wants devs to show there systems the support they deserve. With the number of consoles out, devs should really try and make better games for the Wii and DS in order to get better sales. Shiggy's statement is two-fold, helping the Devs improve their bottom by making better games which sell more, and improving the Wii's library to show more triple A games.

:closed:

[Phoenix]

They could've done both. Without much effort, if any.I don't know what your definition of "effort" is, but apparently it doesn't include more development time, development cost and production cost. Which leads to a higher price tag, lower sales and less profit.

The way I see it, if you don't like what your competition are doing, you beat them at their own game.Let's take a little figurative example here.

You have 300 soldiers (money, staff). You are being bum rushed by hundreds of thousands of soldiers. Would the best choice be to just bum rush them back, head-on?

[Black Dragon37]

What you fail to see is that improving visuals would mean more powerful chips, more expensive production costs and inevitably a higher pricetag. This would cripple the system's appeal and lead less people to throw down that initial money in order to get the system.Not exactly. They could've easily use off-the-shelf components for their system (like the Xbox did). They match their competitors without paying so much, and at the same time still have something innovative, no?

Nintendo does not market their products as graphics powerhouses. As such, people don't mind the lower visuals because they get what the expect. The new and intuitive way to play games is the selling point of the systems and the lower pricepoint helps people in throwing down their hard earned money for entertainment.

You may want graphics and this, that and the other thing, but most people don't care. This is obvious by the DS flat out kicking the PSPs ass (even in Japan where the PSP launched before the DS) and the Wii selling out shipment after shipment 6 months after launch.

Nintendo is a business and they made what was quite possibly the most risky decision ever. To do something different. That has clearly paid off to no end because both systems are going strong and show no signs of slowing down.

Now, Nintendo only wants devs to show there systems the support they deserve. With the number of consoles out, devs should really try and make better games for the Wii and DS in order to get better sales. Shiggy's statement is two-fold, helping the Devs improve their bottom by making better games which sell more, and improving the Wii's library to show more triple A games.

:closed:Don't get me wrong - the Wii deserves the success its getting at the moment. But isn't Miyamoto's issue the fact that 3rd parties aren't using their best teams to make their best games on the Wii?

This is why I'm talking about power - it's mostly what 3rd parties want if they're send their worse teams to develop on the Wii.

At least though, NiGHTS can hopefully turn this around. :)

[TheGreenElf]

You have 300 soldiers (money, staff). You are being bum rushed by hundreds of thousands of soldiers. Would the best choice be to just bum rush them back, head-on?

LOL +rep...that gave me a laugh.

[Viper]

Not exactly. They could've easily use off-the-shelf components for their system (like the Xbox did). They match their competitors without paying so much, and at the same time still have something innovative, no?
You do realize it was off the shelf products that put MS in the red to the tune of $5 billion? You can't just slap a bunch of off the shelf products together and expect them to work like you want them too either. The Xbox was horribly inefficient yet the GC was, at the time, the very model of efficiency. Nintendo wants to maintain that efficiency level because developers love how easy that is to develop for. On top of that, to remain as backwards compatible as possible, they had to continue using a similar product base and off the shelf products would have killed the 100% BC with GC that the Wii offers. Just look at X360 and Xbox. MS use of off the shelf products ensured the X360 would have incredible difficulty with BC.

Don't get me wrong - the Wii deserves the success its getting at the moment. But isn't Miyamoto's issue the fact that 3rd parties aren't using their best teams to make their best games on the Wii?

This is why I'm talking about power - it's mostly what 3rd parties want if they're send their worse teams to develop on the Wii.

At least though, NiGHTS can hopefully turn this around. :)
He's talking about devs being lazy and just porting from the PS2 and not putting in any effort to put a full team on development. We can see a pretty sizable difference in Wii games that are PS2 ports and those made from a full team. Given the fact that Wii has the potential to give them tremendous sales, he's upset that they are taking advantage of the relative ease of PS2 porting for big numbers instead of taking advantage of the Wii's hardware completely.


I personally think this was just devs testing the waters. Seeing what the Wii was al about and now that it's sales are have bested even the best analyst expectations, we'll see more devs put serious effort into the work. Because this sales explosion is a recent issue and games usually begin development well before they are ever announced, we'll begin seeing this change in mid to late summer as more big games from the big studios become announced. Watch E3, E4ALL, PAX and TGS to show some big Wii game announcements.

[frosty]

while I agree with you mostly Viper, I think they could have still taken a $30 larger hit per unit (the GPU was only about $30) and included a GPU that could keep up with certain 360 games but at SD instead. This would have in my opinion set Nintendo's victory in this console war in stone from the very start. HD penetration isn't quite there yet, so most people, myself included, are still playing their PS3's and 360's on standard def TV's. These TV's offer about a third (or a sixth if you have a ps3) of the resolution these systems are outputting. So, a $60 GPU could easily render at 480p natively (rather than downscale from 720p or 1080p like the other 2 do) and include most of the bells and whistles that the other 2 do, only without HD compatibility. Now there are probably a few tech heads that would disagree, saying that there are other factors like CPU that would limit it still, however the point I am making is to the average joe on an average TV, the differences would have been far too minimal to justify shelling out hundreds more. Many think this already, but everyone would if the visuals were too similar on most TV's. Toss in the new controller's massive buzz, and Wii would already be outselling 360 by 2:1 right now (well... maybe not, nintendo can't make more than 100 a month. As I said before, shiggy needs to stop hand making them and let a few others help him).

[Viper]

There are two problems with that.

1. You touched a little on it yourself in that the CPU cannot be substantially more powerful than the CPU or else you're wasting the hardware. You don't want to bottleneck yourself. Now I don't know how comparable or should I say how much of a bottleneck that $60.00 GPU may present or not but I have a feeling the power levels are comparable of each other for that reason....limit the bottlenecks and maintain efficiency.

2. Backwards compatibility. I don't think an off the shelf GPU would have given them that opportunity. I've quickly learned that there are many people that either never had a GC or are finally taking the time to get around to GC games on the Wii. Keeping that BC level at 100% seems to have been a strategic point from the get go that is paying off rather well. For now at least anyway.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I think miyamoto is a smart guy and he has a good fucking point. 3rd Parties do need to stop giving nintendo less than their best. Granted there has to be incentive, but there's so much more they could achieve if they put the right talent behind it. Miyamoto's right.

[Black Dragon37]

Maybe Nintendo's past has come back to haunt them...

A bit like Kratos.

[Viper]

Their past came back to haunt them for 2 generations already. The decline of 3rd party relationships with the N64 and the near death experience that was GameCube.

Their relationship with 3rd parties right now hasn't been this strong in 13 years. We already witnessed the transition from being a 3rd party wasteland to a 3rd party green pasture. What we'll soon see is the transition into a 3rd party gold mine.

I call it now, in less than 3 months, GTA gets announced for Wii. I consider that a complete 180 from last gen.

[Carlos]

I call it now, in less than 3 months, GTA gets announced for Wii. I consider that a complete 180 from last gen.
It won't be GTA4, tho. It will however be San Andreas Stories, or just a straight up port of San Andreas.

[Bowser]

Their past came back to haunt them for 2 generations already. The decline of 3rd party relationships with the N64 and the near death experience that was GameCube.

Their relationship with 3rd parties right now hasn't been this strong in 13 years. We already witnessed the transition from being a 3rd party wasteland to a 3rd party green pasture. What we'll soon see is the transition into a 3rd party gold mine.

I call it now, in less than 3 months, GTA gets announced for Wii. I consider that a complete 180 from last gen.


Yeah tell me about it. With the success of the Godfather, it's a sure bet. The store I got my Wii had only one copy left- and I got it! (Giggles manically).

[Viper]

It won't be GTA4, tho. It will however be San Andreas Stories, or just a straight up port of San Andreas.

Doubtful. Expect something not already on the other systems in some fashion. The 'stories' series is working well on the already established Sony fanbase. This need something new.

Look at how Manhunt 2 is being developed on Wii as the target platform. Rockstar and Take Two recently stated they plan to seriously enhance their Nintendo support.