Are my priorities wrong?

[IEatFriedPikmin]

I don't know if I should post this here, but this has been bothering me for a few years.... its a serious subject to me...if you don't get some of the stuff I am saying, don't worry about it. I kinda just typed my thoughts and feelings without really thinking.

A lot of you know I am Mormon... I don't necessarily like to discuss it due to the fact that I don't want to get into any debates, nor do i set out to change anyone's religion.

I am glad I was raised Mormon. I consider myself a hard worker. I don't smoke, drink, or use vulgar language often which can be partially be thanked to my religion. People tend to trust me. I can thank my religion for earning good grades when I was young as well as helping me earn my Eagle Scout award. But right now I think things are changing.

A Mormon's testimony can be comparable to a chain link. If all the links are strong, the testimony is strong and the chain won't break. However, if even one of the links becomes weak, the whole chain will suffer and break. I think one of my links is about to bust.

Deep down, a lot of the important decisions i make in life are rooted to religion which is negatively affecting me day by day... I really don't mind being a mormon, but it is not necessarily a priority in my life. My parents expect me to put more time into it. They expect me to go a religion class every tuesday night, which i avoid occasionally... not because i get bored, but because I don't have time, and occasionally it makes me angry and makes me question my own faith with some ridiculous things that are said. Sometimes I come out upset, mainly because i strongly disagree with something or feel offended somehow...

Every one of my brothers so far has served a two year mission for my church... i have 6 brothers, 5 of which are older than me. Most leave shortly after they turn 19. How old am I? I turn 20 in June... and since after my high school graduation, I have come up with excuses on why I don't want to leave as soon as I am suppose to. Right now I am running on the excuse of "I want to try and finish school before going." The truth is I simply can't go... I have gone so far as to pray and even fasted about it... I know I am not suppose to go. I don't have a strong testimony of my religion, so going would be a waste of my time... I would be a hypocrite preaching to people... I want to keep church in my life, but I am afraid if i were to go I would turn out like my older brother who is in his thirties, has gone through 2 divorces, is in heavily in debt, is an alcoholic, and doesnt have a direction in his life. He went on a mission to Japan... and even my Dad said he shouldn't have gone. I don't want to end up like that. I am sure a mission puts heavy trials on your faith... and my testimony in my faith is faint.

I can't ever tell that to my parents whenever they ask when I plan on going. I can't even tell my siblings, friends, and even my non-mormon friends. I feel like its just something expected out of me, so I use my current excuse for not going. I guess I just don't want to feel depressed about myself, and I don't want people to look down on me for my decision.

At church I feel awkward whenever the topics are about missionary work. I feel like everyone is looking at me. Once, a guy was talking about how pretty much if you did not want to live a miserable life, you needed to go on a mission. One of my older brother's friends asked me when I was going... I told him my excuse, and he called me a slacker. I wasn't sure how serious he was, but that ripped me up inside for the rest of the day. I just wanted to grab my keys and leave church after he said that...

I know my family is starting to think I just don't want to go, but I keep giving them false hope while at the same time hoping they will understand how I feel about it. Sometimes my brother who just got off his will talk to me and tell me about his and how much he loved it. I just think I won't enjoy it and that it will emotionally strain me. I think my Dad has asked the local missionaries here to call me if they need transportation or any help doing stuff... its kinda annoying. They are great guys, but I am always at work, or studying when they do call, and I feel bad for saying I can't go out with them.

I just don't know what to do with this whole issue of religion. I want to be a good person, but I just fear for how people will perceive me if I decide not to put religion as a priority.

[Bowser]

You may be experiencing a bit of an existential crisis. It may be that you like the idea of being a Mormon, but you don't actually like doing activities related to it. The two year thing is a huge commitment, and I wouldn't blame you for wanting to reconsider it. After all, you have uproot yourself from home, leaving behind family and friends to make a commitment to God.

I think that what is happening here is that you are chafing against the expectations of your faith. You are really caught between two worlds. You want to be a good Mormon, but you don't quite fit in to the Mormon culture. But the think with religion, is that you can't simply do it for the sake of doing it. You have to internalize it, to make it your own. I don't think that you should reject the role of religion in your life. I do, however, think that this is time for you to reconsider the role of Mormonism is your life. The question is, what role is God going to play in your life? Is this really where you want to be? Or do you feel that you are being drawn towards someone else?


Personally, I think that God is trying to tell you something here. You have to find out what role your faith is going to play. Are you going to give Him a central role in your life, or are you going to relegate him to the sidelines. If God does play a major role in your life, what form will it take? That is the issue here. You are struggling to balance the expectations of your family, with what is right.

You may want to take time to consider whether the Mormon faith is the right faith for you. Spend some time in prayer and reflection, and ask Him to show you his purpose for you. If I was you, I'd consider talking to your pastor, and taking your concerns to him. I would also try looking around at the various churches in your area, and spend a bit of time talking to them. All of these pastors have a different variety of perspectives, so it would interesting to hear what they would have to say.

Remember, that you are simply looking for information, so hear what they have to say first. This is an issue that is very tricky. All I can say is that you shouldn't be so concerned with what the others might think about you. What does matter is what God thinks of you, and where you think he fits into your life. This is a difficult situation for you, and it is going to take some time for you to sort out.

Hope this doesn't come off as too condescending. I wish you best of luck on this one.

[SuperLuigiBros]

I want to be a good person
You can still be a good person and not go on this thing. I dont know much about the Mormon religion (or any religion for that matter) so I dont really know what youre going though, but being a good person shouldnt rely on your religion alone.

Im sure your parents would understand... I mean, parents usually support whatever it is their children want to do. I guess the only exception would be if they feel really strongly about it. But since you feel really strongly about not going then they should understand. But again, I dont know how the whole Mormon thing works so Im not sure.

If you know its not what you want to do, then dont do it. Its not like they can really force you.

And what would you rather? Your parents being disappionted because you didnt go, or your parents being disappointed because you did go and it was too much for you and you end up being an alchoholic or whatever.

Theyll cant be disappointed in you if you dont go and still make something of yourself, try your hardest at what you do, etc etc.

I dunno... There does seem to be alot of pressure on you, but to me its quite obvious what you should do. Dont do what your parents want, do what you want.


....ill stop rambling now...

[D3adcell]

I only read the first part of your post, and i';ll be honest. I have been drinking.

I have a cousin that is mormon. He is going to peru or something to preach the mormonism or somehting.

But right now you are at a point in your life were you are questioning your fatih, wondering if it is what you should be doing. That is up to you to decide. But do what makes you happy. Regardless of faith. If youa re happy, do it. If not, then don't get too worked over it. Do what you feel you should be doing with your life. Religion to me is but a support group. If you know what you want to do etc, then you don't neccesarily need to follow the support group.

Whatever you do, make sure you are happy in life. That is the most important thing.

if you ever want to talk about it or anything you have my aim and stuff.

[Negativity]

Yes, unfortunately I'm a bit drunk too.

I'll... wow, I made that mistake. It was meant to be "all".
Anyway, all I can say is questioning your faith is fine, do it and don't go on the mission, there's no point in knowingly being a hypocrite (which we all are).

[Fiend]

I think you're too caught up on what other people expect of you. As selfish as it is, you need to set expectations and goals for yourself. You are living your life, and you should live it how you want to. I don't even think it's that selfish, how is pursuing happiness that isn't hurting anyone in a true sense selfish? Maybe you want to consider other religions man, if you really want to keep God in your life. Believing in him does not make you a better person or a worse person, not believing doesn't make you a bad person or a better person either.

[Negativity]

And no, they're not wrong.

[Lucent Beam]

Definitely don't go if you don't feel it's 100%.

Children who are raised in faith with strict expectations will end up questioning it at one point or anything, and it doesn't make you a bad person if the answers to your questionings turn out different from your brothers.

I don't think you will feel guilty about not wanting to go. If you did go, you'd be cheating all the people you talk to by not really being into it. Do what is best for yourself and what you feel is truly right, and maybe eventually you'll want to go on a mission someday.

[IEatFriedPikmin]

Thanks for the advice guys.... its just the amount of pressure that is the problem... it makes me sick.

[Ratu]

If it is not something that you feel 100% about, maybe try just local charity work. (soup kitchen etc)

While you may not necessarily be preaching to people directly your actions will. I don't know much about Mormon, but I would think in this way you could be showing your family and faith community that you are glad to be Mormon but unsure of what God's plan is for you so you are in the meantime 'doing good works'

Just my reflection

[Phoenix]

I just don't know what to do with this whole issue of religion. I want to be a good person, but I just fear for how people will perceive me if I decide not to put religion as a priority.The important question is this - do you feel you need to go on mission trips and do these things, or do you just feel it's expected of you?

A forced faith is not a very strong one. One found yourself is a much better foundation, and one that is hard to stray from. I'm not saying you should stop being Mormon, I'm just saying that you should look at it from the eyes of an individual, not from those of someone who just "is" part of the faith. I think choices of this nature are easier to make with that in mind, and it makes one closer to his/her religion.

And keep in mind that it doesn't take a mission trip to be a witness.

[Gaul]

I belong to a Mormon church, and I suppose technically I am a Mormon, but I haven't been to church in a good few years, and I am not very religious anymore. I am not positive I believe in God anymore.

But from what i remember, The Mormon church is very relaxed and laid back. Its not big on tradition, Its not big on ceremony. Its a very casual thing. I don't think you should feel pressured to do anything in religion, especially when it comes to being a Mormon. You should do as much as you feel comfortable with. You obviously believe strongly in the religion. You pray, you care. I don't think that you really believe that this 2 year trip is as important as your parents make it up to be. You don't need to go on a mission to be a good person, to do whats right and to follow your religion. Doing this does not prove your worth to God, or anyone else. Do you honestly think that God would expect you to do this you yourself believe it to be a waste? Not everyone is cut out for these things. There are other things that are more important to you, and the people around you should respect that. It says nothing about your faith, in my opinion.

But then again, I don't really know much about the religion, even though i am technically a part of it. I stopped going when i was around 13, and I only began to really understand what was going on around 10 or 11 years old.

[Bowser]

Thanks for the advice guys.... its just the amount of pressure that is the problem... it makes me sick.

Yeah, no worries. You made a valid point about not wanting to go on your mission if you're not entirely sure about the Mormon faith, and that's a valid point. It would be a bit like me advertising a product like oh, say... the bedfan, when I am not sure it even works. Take your time, and don't let anyone pressure you into making a decision. This is your life, and you need to find the path for yourself.

[Bryan]

Religion should never take precedence over yourself, nor your laudible undertakings. By valuing family, friends and yourself, you are serving God.

[Phoenix]

Religion should never take precedence over yourself, nor your laudible undertakings. By valuing family, friends and yourself, you are serving God.That's not entirely true. An old Catholic saying (I am not Catholic, but whatever) is that your priorities can be remembered with JOY: Jesus, then others, then yourself, which is pretty much what most teachings say. However, you are correct in saying that personal sacrifice is not required, as long as you live your life how God wants you to.

This is not speaking for all religions, though.

[Colin™]

Catholic sayings aren't canon.

And it is absolutely beyond me why anyone would sacrifice their happiness for any god. Of course, I'm the wrong guy to be asking such advice, since I'm about as religious as an oatmeal cookie.

But personally, yeah, you're priorities are quite jumbled/nutty. Sorry?

[Phoenix]

Catholic sayings aren't canon.Very true. Heck, I should probobly say too true. I was just speaking as an example of general religious mindsets. Note that I mentioned that it does not speak for all religions.

[Sinny]

I think religion hinders peoples abilities to be their selves ...

Always too worried what the church or 'god' will think of you ...

You have one life to live why not live it the way you want too and do what makes you happy?

Can't make anyone else happy if you can't be happy with yourself ..

[Phoenix]

You have one life to live why not live it the way you want too and do what makes you happy?Because chances are, if you are religious, you do not believe that your one life is all you have.

[Bryan]

The Catholic religion has little to no bearing when it comes to issues of reality.

[Phoenix]

I'm just using them as an example; to be honest I don't like Catholicism very much. That saying just happens to not be one of the many things I disagree with.

[Bloodman]

I think religion hinders peoples abilities to be their selves ...

Always too worried what the church or 'god' will think of you ...

You have one life to live why not live it the way you want too and do what makes you happy?

Can't make anyone else happy if you can't be happy with yourself ..

Church isn't the only thing that hinders who we are, so do trends, music, frends, movies, tv, etc.

We are who we feel is inside of us. That voice that tells you what you REALLY want to do, and it sounds like you don't want to go on the pilrimage, and you dont agree with you church. Don't butter it up, you DON'T agree with things that your church say. That doesn't mean they're stupid or ignorant, it just means you don't agree. You have to do what you feel, because you don't seem like you would enjoy any bit of that pilgrimage (even if you do go to Japan, that would be cool). You have to talk with your parents, because they're the key to your problem. Get them to understand and your chuch will understand. You're not a slacker, or lazy, or undevoted, you just know you're not gonna enjoy it, and what's the point of doing it if that is gonna possibly manke you do a bad job. Talk to them man, you gotta.

[Phoenix]

I kind of have to agree, except for the whole hindering part. To keep this to yourself (we don't count) does no good to yourself or others.

[Bowser]

I think religion hinders peoples abilities to be their selves ...

Always too worried what the church or 'god' will think of you ...

You have one life to live why not live it the way you want too and do what makes you happy?

Can't make anyone else happy if you can't be happy with yourself ..

I would say that religion allows you to become your true self. And people who are religious are that way because they realize that true happiness does not come from doing what they like, but from helping others.

Just something to think about...

[Bryan]

That's great and all, but that saying means nothing if Jesus is not your saviour, nor your God.

Perhaps I used the wrong term. God does carry some baggage.

Supreme being. Creator. You can serve your God, Supreme Being, or Creator in better ways. I am not religious in the typical sense of the word, but I am extremely spiritual. Every day is a blessing. Every person that is important to you is a blessing -- be they friends, family, or whatever. Your soul is a blessing. I believe those things are more important than lip service to deity in a special building.

Religion has been twisted into a political tool. It's disgusting.

[Bowser]

The Catholic religion has little to no bearing when it comes to issues of reality.


And on what basis do you make that assumption praytel?


Edit- Sorry mysterio, but which one of us were referring to in your last comment?

[Bloodman]

Chatholisism has just as much meaning as everyhting else. We just worship more people is all. Idk why people put down Catholisism so much nowadays. Is it the movie Dogma? Idk.

[Bryan]

It's far from an assumption. They rule their congregations through fear of hell, not in the interest of what is moral, right, or just. I know Catholics that are outstanding human beings. I know others that will feed upon people when they're down.

What can you do? Heh..

[Bowser]

And you base this on... what exactly?

[Bryan]

My own experience.

You don't need religion if you have truth, Bowser. Remember that.

[Bloodman]

It's far from an assumption. They rule their congregations through fear of hell, not in the interest of what is moral, right, or just.

No sir. Hell is just as big a part as any western religion. We are not ruled by fear, we are ruled by the same devotion any other religiouse people, God. And what of Christianity with their super churches and huge TV's? Yea, way to go, marketing a religion with books such as Left Behind, a computer game (same series as Left Behind), a mass of history channel documentarys depicting people who've seen hell (Christian is their religion I understand), and a mass of other marketing schemes depicting hell.

I don't understand why this is gonna be an argument now. It's all about Jesus and God (western). Leave it at that and let's move on..

[Bryan]

The politicians and marketing campaigns have used and abused the name of your Saviour, as well as the Creator. That's why I made the comment earlier about the whole thing being disgusting, and that's why I have a generally unfavorable opinion of organized religion.

It's no big deal to disagree. I'm not personalizing this.

I apologize if you feel that I am.

[Bloodman]

The politicians and marketing campaigns have used and abused the name of your Saviour, as well as the Creator. That's why I made the comment earlier about the whole thing being disgusting, and that's why I have a generally unfavorable opinion of organized religion.

It's no big deal to disagree. I'm not personalizing this.

I apologize if you feel that I am.

The saviours name has been abused countless times, you can't blame one religion is what I'm saying. If you blame one religion for anything, all must be blamed because they've all done it. I kinda get ticked when people put down Catholisism, not because I'm devoted, I'm actually quiet.....not, but because it's like a bunch of bullies picking on the same kid over and over.

[Bryan]

I didn't mean to blame only one religion. You're all equally guilty!

And what is going on with the Jews for Jesus thing?

[The Dude]

I think that so many people pervert the teachings of the Bible that we forget that it does have many good teachings in it. I always thought it simply as a "users guide" to life as opposed to a litteral description on how to live. I never understood why someone would be a "god fearing catholic" or live their life a certin way strictly to avoid hell, because it kind of defeates the purpose of having a faith



As for IEFP, you need to do what you think is best for IEFP, not fullfill the wishes of others at your expense.

[Bryan]

I can dig The Bible.

[Phoenix]

Supreme being. Creator. You can serve your God, Supreme Being, or Creator in better ways. I am not religious in the typical sense of the word, but I am extremely spiritual. Every day is a blessing. Every person that is important to you is a blessing -- be they friends, family, or whatever. Your soul is a blessing. I believe those things are more important than lip service to deity in a special building.

Religion has been twisted into a political tool. It's disgusting.Yes, I believe you put your thoughts on "paper" pretty unclearly. I kind of get what you're saying now. Being a good Christian (or Jew, or Muslim, or whatever you are) has nothing to do with how active you are in your religious organization (church, etc.), but all comes from your actions and beliefs. A religious person who has never set foot into a church is better off than someone who emptily mouths prayers along with everyone else if they don't truly care.

It's all about doing what's best for your afterlife and making the best of the time until then, not doing what is expected of you.

[Bryan]

Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying.

[IEatFriedPikmin]

Not all churches are corrupt. I consider going to church and participating in church related activities a good thing. It is a support system with people who share similar views and beliefs. Yes, you will have your hypocrite and such, but I don't think the main reason to go to church is to listen to what others have to say...

[Boggy700]

I haven't read this thread past the original post.
You may choose to not read mine.
Fair enough.


By the end of your life, you should be able to reflect on your experiences and be happy with how you felt, and what you achieved, and who you are as a person.
If you can do that, you know that ultimately you have made the right decisions.

Being a good person is NOT exclusive to religion.
If you want to stop being a Mormon, but keep the strong moral foundation that has helped you through your life, there is no reason why you shouldn't.
You're a good person because of who you are, not what you follow.

The decision you make won't affect anybody else as much as they do you.

Your life is yours to create.

[=NukeBlaze=]

The Catholic exponent is a production of the Diocese of Youngstown. I find this particular article quite relevant currently, therefore I am posting it as it touches on the multiple posts in this thread.




By FATHER JOHN DIETZEN

Q. I believe Catholic teaching is that the idea of suicide bombers is totally wrong and that anyone who commits such a crime is going to hell. We now know that they are using the Internet to recruit these people, and we should do all we can to counter them. Why doesn’t the church preach more about these sinful actions? (Wisconsin)

A. While suicide is an objectively sinful act, and deliberately killing innocent people while committing suicide is particularly horrendous, I am not clear why you think more Catholic homilies against suicide bombing will affect extremists who do it.

One point in your letter, however, which I know is shared by many Christians deserves some comment. I am not qualified to explain Islamic beliefs on suicide bombing, but Catholic teaching has some valuable things to say about the eternal destiny of those who commit such crimes.

Contrary to the assumptions of many, the Catholic Church holds that all persons who sincerely attempt to follow their own consciences, what they believe to be right and good, are saved. This concept is well entrenched in church teaching. It applies to everyone, not just to those whose religious theories enjoy our blessing.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church says it clearly. “Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience — these too may achieve eternal salvation” (No. 847).

Pope John Paul II elaborated on this in his World Day of Peace message Jan. 1, 1999. Speaking of religious freedom, he concluded, “People are obliged to follow their conscience in all circumstances and cannot be forced to act against it.” [/B]All this assumes, of course, a diligent and honest attempt to inform one’s conscience with all the prayer and wisdom possible, and then to live one’s life in accord with what is seen as “religious duty,” however the individual sees that duty.

More than a few American religious leaders publicly proclaim that all dead terrorists are in hell, and that all still alive will end up there. It does not at all dilute or deny the hideous evil of terrorist actions (or our right and obligation to oppose them in any moral way possible) to reply that religious arrogance like this is unworthy of any thoughtful follower of Jesus Christ.

Judgments about the condition and fate of other people’s souls are wholly beyond our reach. To pretend we have sufficient knowledge and wisdom to make such judgments invades territory that belongs to God alone.

God created all of us, terrorists included, out of love. And Jesus, as St. Paul says, died for each of us. It is blasphemy to dare to tell God which of his children he will reject or to tell Jesus which of those he died for must be condemned.

To be sure, someone of any or no religion is capable of rejecting God and his law by a deliberate, radical, eternal choice of evil over good.

But that is not the whole story.

We must also admit our complete ignorance of how God’s grace and truth may have transformed a person, terrorist or anyone else, not only during his or her life, but also in the last moments. It is our radical belief that God performs incredible miracles of mercy.

Who knows what took place in these events? We do not know, of course, and will never know in this life.

[koten]

I know this isn't really this issue, but this is something that always comes up when people being talking about their faith.

Being religious does not make you a good person. I am an Atheist and everyday I give up my time to work FOR FREE and help instruct in my martial arts school. I frequently give money to charity and have donated blood once and am probably going to do it again soon (Monday if time permits). I also do favors for people all the time (including driving them somewhere, taking over a shift at work for them, buying them lunch or helping the with schoolwork) frequently and never ask for anything back (even the money I spent on their food).

You have to realize something. You can still be a good person without religion, and if you feel that the religious obligations that are being forced on you are standing in your way to a happy life, then you should seriously reconsider your faith. I'm not saying to quite being a Mormon, I don't advocate radical change without deep thought, but rather your commitment to your church.

The point is that you have to think of yourself first and foremost. This is your life, not your parent's, not your brother's, not your minister's, YOURS. No matter what you decided to do, you will always be the same person, remember that.

[Sinny]

Everyone has their own opinion ... I honestly think IN MY OPINION religion is crap ... who are dead people to tell me how Im suppose to live imo fuck you all ..

but .. if you are religious hey thats your thing .. but if you cant figure out your own life and priorities .. then maybe in all reality you need to take 2 steps back and just look at everything .. and decide for yourself ... you can take all the advice given in this thread and do what you will with it but .. only YOU AND YOU ALONE can make your decisions and be happy with it ..

[Khaos]

Good people don't go to heaven.

Being a good person is supposed to be a result of being religious and following your Savior's teachings. It's not exclusive to being Christian/religious.

And on the whole Christian hypocrites thing, people aren't perfect. Christians try to follow their teachings, but usually fail. Sure, you'll find some bimbos in life that say they're Christian but are definately not acting like one at all. The thing that matters is that you're truly trying.

[frosty]

people tell you every day how to live your life. (the government, teachers, doctors, etc.). Religion doesn't tell one how to live their life, but recommends ways to continue living after death. If you wish death to be the end for you, that's fine. Leave it at that. I find people who think religion (especially Christianity, I'm going to speak from it's perspective here since it is the religion I know most about) is a means of controlling the masses to be hilarious. Though there has been corruption that has snuck in a various points and tried to do just that, the actual doctrine of the vast majority of these religions (namely Christianity) doesn't do that at all. There isn't much that we like to do that Christianity says we shouldn't, aside from homosexuality due to it being a slap in the face to god for defying the way your body was designed, it is physically unnatural and therefore is blasphemous. I also cast things like piercings and cosmetic surgery when not required in this same category for the same reason. Even then, it's no guaranteed ticket to death so long as you do not rejoice in it. It's simply a sin that can be forgiven just like any other. (there is no fire and brimstone hell, the wages of sin is DEATH as it clearly states in the Bible. The whole "eternal suffering" crap is scare tactics created by fools who know nothing of Christianity. What sort of sick fuck parent would condemn their child to suffer eternally? No sin is worth that much in my opinion, especially if you are a loving and forgiving parent.) aside from that which defiles the body in an unnatural way, there isn't anything that you aren't supposed to do religiously that a normal person would want to do. Like to get drunk? Christ is cool with it, so long as you do not overdo it especially if you turn to it for your problems rather than God. If that weren't the case Christ would have never made more wine for people that were already drunk as his very first miracle. Same applies for any other non-harmful substance (don't say things like alcohol or pot are harmful, as when used properly they are no more harmful than the cholesterol in your food). Basically the only things these religions command is that you follow the basic laws of man and do all you can to love your neighbor and reflect the love of God. Christianity, for instance, only has 10 commandments. All based on common laws of man, don't kill, cheat, lie, steal, and keep faith in the one true god, etc. Things that any good human being should do anyway. The other things such as not eating pork were due to the safety hazards that eating pork back in the time of the formation of these religions presented. It couldn't be refrigerated and therefore was very dangerous to eat. God gave man 10 commandments, and only 10. The rest of the bible is simply a suggestion on a good way to live and prosper (though it's quite outdated now in that respect) that was written by man. The only text in Christianity authored directly by God itself is the 10 commandments and the quoted words of Christ, his son.

[Khaos]

Yes, frosty, we know you are a very anti-homosexual advocate. Please try to speak in general facts/observations, instead of stating your own opinions as fact.

[Sinny]

Like to get drunk? Christ is cool with it

That was the best quote ever frosty lol I luv you ...


Yes, frosty, we know you are a very anti-homosexual advocate. Please try to speak in general facts/observations, instead of stating your own opinions as fact.

Rob .. you know better .. we've been over this .. Everyone will have their opinion
come now love :-*

[frosty]

i'm not stating my opinions as fact, these are general facts as I percieve them for the Christian faith. don't get offended by my observations if you like to take it in the butt, as they are only observations, which are subjective.

[Khaos]

It is blasphemous

An opinion would be "I think it is blasphemous".

Sinny, he can have his opinions, but he should state them as opinions, not fact.

[frosty]

I'll state them however I like. Just because something isn't declared fact, doesn't mean it is not so. I never claim any of Christianity to be fact, though I believe it so. Likewise I do not claim any of it to be opinion. I am not required to do either.

[Sinny]

Well darling you arent the only one frosty is fingering here ...

besides why worry what everyone else has to say ... Be happy with who YOU are ... I love you its all that matters ... :)

[Ihsiin]

Yes, let's not get into an argument because people don't put IMO in hundred feet letters after every word.

[Sinny]

hahahaha agreed darling^

[frosty]

yeah, exactly. And I'm not "fingering" (smells finger) anyone here, only stating things as I see them.

[Sinny]

rofl frosty ... im just saying you arent exactly pointing a finger at one but alot .. Im just trying to explain to Khaos again that your opinion is your opinion and he need not worry for there are people who love him regardless of who he is and what he does ..'

but he should already know this for I have been through this with him once before and he knows better then to take it too heart .. though .. It gets tiring to hear... I understand him on that

[Khaos]

Bah.. okay :-D

I can go from pissy to nice in record time... So what was this thread about? haha.

[Sinny]

You are welcome :-*

[frosty]

Keep in mind that nobody I mentioned (as a general whole) is undeserving of my love. A gay person, or a person who has had cosmetic surgery (my own grandmother, for instance) or defiled their natural body for any reason deserves to be loved as much as anyone else, and they do not deserve to be judged. As was posted before, it is blasphemous to judge anyone in such a way. God is the only one with the right to pass such a judgment. We all have only been ordered to love each other, and to love god. that is it. While I do not condone such behavior, I have no right to condemn someone for doing it when I sin myself. All sin is viewed as sin to god. There is no gay sin, or murder sin, or stealing sin, it's all just sin and is all viewed equally. So, I cannot claim myself to be any better than the most flaming homosexual out there, for I defy god in my own equally atrocious (in the eyes of god) ways.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

[Bryan]

Actually.. if I may be perhaps somewhat offensive. BUT, remember that I mean this in a positive way!

Crazy though the Mormons may be, I've never met a hypocrite who was one.

Naturally, that could be attributed to the fact that Mormons as a denomination make up a relatively small portion of organized religion in general. But the fact remains!

[frosty]

they do hold a very strong devotion to their faith, as should we all.

[Bryan]

Certainly, we should. But it is important to stay aware of our comrades. If you witness one of those people doing something that you feel contradicts the foundation of your religious institution, why hesitate to correct them? We should all keep each other on the level.

Discussion of our respective faiths is extremely important to spiritual growth. It's imperative that we know what it is we have faith in, and that we strive to stay aware of why we have faith. Just because our parents or friends believe in something, doesn't mean that we all have to.

And let me re-emphasize that fear of Hell is not a good reason to go to church. That's probably one of the more disappointing motivations to do so.

[frosty]

Exactly, as it only shows that you worship out of fear. There is no love in fear, and therefore worshiping out of fear is blasphemous, because you are basically saying to God "I'm only doing this because I would die if I didn't". If that isn't a one way ticket to mortality then nothing is.

[Applefiend]

I haven't read the whole thread but I don't think not smoking, drinking, swearing, having strong religious faith and being hard working makes you a good person.

Osama Bin Laden doesn't drink, smoke, swear, works hard, and has strong faith.

It has no bearing on anything.

[Sinny]

I think its time to let this thread .. wither away ... good day children

[Phoenix]

I haven't read the whole thread but I don't think not smoking, drinking, swearing, having strong religious faith and being hard working makes you a good person.

Osama Bin Laden doesn't drink, smoke, swear, works hard, and has strong faith.

It has no bearing on anything.Osama, like most/all religious terrorists, has a strong faith in a gross perversion of Islam.

Drinking, smoking and doing drugs makes no difference as far as religion goes, it's just a general consensus that it is easier to be a good Christian/Muslim/Jew/etc. with a sober mind. It's not required or anything. The only understandable argument is that doing so pollutes your body, a creation of God's, and therefore is a sin. I don't agree, and I doubt anyone here does, but it's a somewhat understandable belief. Not like I don't have my own reasons, but religion isn't one in this case.

On the topic of being a good person vs. being religious, I know some great people who are atheists, and total A-holes who call themselves Christians. Your beliefs don't automatically dictate your personality, but being a good person won't get someone into heaven.

[kaphwan]

I read an essay that made the argument that mind-altering substances are against God's word, but then realised that it was taking examples of people who sinned, THEN God gave them over to such unnatural passions.

Doesn't make sense to reverse the cause-effect relationship you see in the Bible.

[OmniCloud]

people tell you every day how to live your life. (the government, teachers, doctors, etc.). Religion doesn't tell one how to live their life, but recommends ways to continue living after death. If you wish death to be the end for you, that's fine. Leave it at that. I find people who think religion (especially Christianity, I'm going to speak from it's perspective here since it is the religion I know most about) is a means of controlling the masses to be hilarious. Though there has been corruption that has snuck in a various points and tried to do just that, the actual doctrine of the vast majority of these religions (namely Christianity) doesn't do that at all. There isn't much that we like to do that Christianity says we shouldn't, aside from homosexuality due to it being a slap in the face to god for defying the way your body was designed, it is physically unnatural and therefore is blasphemous. I also cast things like piercings and cosmetic surgery when not required in this same category for the same reason. Even then, it's no guaranteed ticket to death so long as you do not rejoice in it. It's simply a sin that can be forgiven just like any other. (there is no fire and brimstone hell, the wages of sin is DEATH as it clearly states in the Bible. The whole "eternal suffering" crap is scare tactics created by fools who know nothing of Christianity. What sort of sick fuck parent would condemn their child to suffer eternally? No sin is worth that much in my opinion, especially if you are a loving and forgiving parent.) aside from that which defiles the body in an unnatural way, there isn't anything that you aren't supposed to do religiously that a normal person would want to do. Like to get drunk? Christ is cool with it, so long as you do not overdo it especially if you turn to it for your problems rather than God. If that weren't the case Christ would have never made more wine for people that were already drunk as his very first miracle. Same applies for any other non-harmful substance (don't say things like alcohol or pot are harmful, as when used properly they are no more harmful than the cholesterol in your food). Basically the only things these religions command is that you follow the basic laws of man and do all you can to love your neighbor and reflect the love of God. Christianity, for instance, only has 10 commandments. All based on common laws of man, don't kill, cheat, lie, steal, and keep faith in the one true god, etc. Things that any good human being should do anyway. The other things such as not eating pork were due to the safety hazards that eating pork back in the time of the formation of these religions presented. It couldn't be refrigerated and therefore was very dangerous to eat. God gave man 10 commandments, and only 10. The rest of the bible is simply a suggestion on a good way to live and prosper (though it's quite outdated now in that respect) that was written by man. The only text in Christianity authored directly by God itself is the 10 commandments and the quoted words of Christ, his son.


I must say, damn fine Post Frosty! I hope you re-visit this thread to read my reply...

I agree with every point you said man, I don't want to come off as harsh, but seriously, people need to actually READ the bible.

Like Frosty said, why would Hell or torment forever in fire be part of ANY human's punishment for not living there life up to God's standard:huh: We are in fact given free will to do as we choose (Adam and Eve) To even suggest that living a life of Sin will offer you anything more than eternal sleep is ridiculous! There I said it, believe me, Frosty, the bible or not-when you die-YOU DIE. You go back to dust, and if your worthy for something more than that so be it. There is no eternal suffering...

I won't go into details or quoting verse on what's acceptable and what's not, but I hope this thread doesn't turn into a "God accepts everything and everyone" nonsense. It is clearly far from the truth. Indeed people do have the option and the right to do as they please, but just because God has given people the right to do it, doesn't mean it's acceptable. Users should really think about that before they try to bite Frosty's head off for his post.

I won't rant anymore, but there is certainly truth out there if any1 is willing to find it. I've been to Church but mostly grew up at the Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses. Contrary to popular belief the religion considers itself Christian, it's simply that so many people are not living up to that name that Witnesses have to distinguish themselves. Overall, I have found truth. In every way, shape and form. Some things are not as pretty as you think. (Especially if you live a life of Sin) and some things aren't as bad as you think either. Bottom line, the bible just makes sense if you REALLY know what your reading. I encourage everyone to read this thread and do some soul searching of your own.

BTW Frosty, there is a certain type of Fear that you should worship with. It's not to be terrified or anything, but there's a certain level of respect and hesitance you should have for God. It's a Healthy fear to be honest.