GoW engine up and running on PS3

[SleazyBig slim]

Now that you're moving on from PS2, what will become of the God of War engine? Is it currently being used for any other games? Will it be in the future?

The God of War engine is a set of proprietary tools and engine technology used only at SCEA's Santa Monica Studios. It will continue to be used by games that we make. An enormous amount of the effort and resources went into the tools specifically and they are not so radically affected by what the target platform is. The game engine is already up and running on the PS3 and while large parts of it will be rewritten to work better on the new hardware architecture, I am pretty sure it will still be somewhat recognizable when we finish up our first PS3 project. We simply cannot afford to throw everything away and start again for a new platform, there is far too much time and knowledge invested in them. So we will iteratively change out our engine over the next few months while the designers and artists get to work on the next project.

Complete interview can be found here, great read.

http://ncroal.talk.newsweek.com/default.asp?item=571269

[cliffbo]

Now that you're moving on from PS2, what will become of the God of War engine? Is it currently being used for any other games? Will it be in the future?

The God of War engine is a set of proprietary tools and engine technology used only at SCEA's Santa Monica Studios. It will continue to be used by games that we make. An enormous amount of the effort and resources went into the tools specifically and they are not so radically affected by what the target platform is. The game engine is already up and running on the PS3 and while large parts of it will be rewritten to work better on the new hardware architecture, I am pretty sure it will still be somewhat recognizable when we finish up our first PS3 project. We simply cannot afford to throw everything away and start again for a new platform, there is far too much time and knowledge invested in them. So we will iteratively change out our engine over the next few months while the designers and artists get to work on the next project.

Complete interview can be found here, great read.

http://ncroal.talk.newsweek.com/default.asp?item=571269

this is the worse new for ages... has everyone decided to cop out?

[VG Aficionado]

this is the worse new for ages... has everyone decided to cop out?I think you simply don't know what this really means. I'd rather have cpiasminc elaborate on it instead of doing it myself, but I can say it's good news.

[cliffbo]

I think you simply don't know what this really means. I'd rather have cpiasminc elaborate on it instead of doing it myself, but I can say it's good news.

i know fella... you can see where i'm coming from though, can't ya.... ;)

We simply cannot afford to throw everything away and start again for a new platform, there is far too much time and knowledge invested in them.

Sony's in trouble... sorry... its true

[KRA]

i know fella... you can see where i'm coming from though, can't ya.... ;)



Sony's in trouble... sorry... its true

you don't understand
do you know anything about game engines?
i think that some parts of engine don't have to change no matter if it is ps2 or ps3 other parts they will rewrite. why throw away something that you can use ?! it would be simple waste of money.

[VG Aficionado]

Sony's in trouble... sorry... its trueThe word "afford" is fooling you, I guess. You must really believe that in order for games to look and feel like next gen games they must really be powered by engines entirely written with PS3 in mind or else they're crap. I think that if that was the case, we wouldn't have seen any games at all at this point in time.

[Sephiroth_VII]

They've been working on the techniques used in the engine until recently, why would they throw all that work away and start all over again? Even UE3 inherits a lot of features and technology from its predecessors, regardless of the evolution gaming has been going through.

[KRA]

it's evolution baby... and if you want new engine game then you have to wait till i don't know 2011.

[cliffbo]

The word "afford" is fooling you, I guess. You must really believe that in order for games to look and feel like next gen games they must really be powered by engines entirely written with PS3 in mind or else they're crap. I think that if that was the case, we wouldn't have seen any games at all at this point in time.

just a feeling i've got... i could be wrong and i hope i'm wrong. is the RAC engine the old one? they've had years to develop an engine for the PS3. this suggests that it wasn't actually meant to come out on the PS3... i reckon they may be just squeezing the last drops of juice from this franchise with the minimum amount of effort

[Sephiroth_VII]

I doubt that, but they did so much stuff for GoW2, a game only a few months old. Why throw it away!? Anyway, I think cpi will be here soon, he's good at explaining stuff like this.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Cliffbo I think you're freaking out over nothing. The god of war engine is, first of all, pretty beast just from what we've seen on PS2. Bringing that engine over and then retooling it as they go along for the programmers and artists is better for them than discarding an engine they spent millions of dollars developing just to start over again. I know what you're thinking, God of War 3 won't 'look that impressive' but that's not determined by the root engine they're starting on. Don't be so quick to jump the gun man. At least wait for media to come out to be disappointed.

[woundingchaney]

One would wonder how scalable the engine is?? After all there is a good bit of difference in the architecture and hardware from the PS2 to PS3. In the end this is definetely nothing to be alarmed about in the least, so far we have 2 excellent titles from this engine why question it now. Regardless Im sure some will have to be reconfigured but in the end I doubt any engine doesnt have its basis on previous ones (even the "next gen" engines).

[Jay Gee]

Dude's not the jumping the gun, he's jumping the damn Shinra Cannon.:||| There isn't even a single screenshot of a PS3 game running on this engine and he's already going postal. It may be a time/money saver, but it's not like the GoW engine (or what the finished product shows us) is horrible or something.

[cliffbo]

Cliffbo I think you're freaking out over nothing. The god of war engine is, first of all, pretty beast just from what we've seen on PS2. Bringing that engine over and then retooling it as they go along for the programmers and artists is better for them than discarding an engine they spent millions of dollars developing just to start over again. I know what you're thinking, God of War 3 won't 'look that impressive' but that's not determined by the root engine they're starting on. Don't be so quick to jump the gun man. At least wait for media to come out to be disappointed.

fella, freaking out is simply not a phrase you would ever associate with me lol... this is just creative writing to me. it would be so dull if i had to write perfectly every time. i am calm; am always calm; and will remain calm... ;)

[Siraris]

fella, freaking out is simply not a phrase you would ever associate with me lol... this is just creative writing to me. it would be so dull if i had to write perfectly every time. i am calm; am always calm; and will remain calm... ;)

Then are you just purposely being stupid? This isn't the first time you've done this sort of thing, and then later come back and been like "Oh hahaha it was just a joke!!" once people called you out on it.

The God of War "engine" is not a traditional engine, it's multiple different applications in a toolset that they use to create the engine. If you read the article, Tim explains that they do a lot of their development directly in Maya, and then export from there. Squaresoft and many other Japanese companies follow this same philosophy.

[cliffbo]

Then are you just purposely being stupid? This isn't the first time you've done this sort of thing, and then later come back and been like "Oh hahaha it was just a joke!!" once people called you out on it.

The God of War "engine" is not a traditional engine, it's multiple different applications in a toolset that they use to create the engine. If you read the article, Tim explains that they do a lot of their development directly in Maya, and then export from there. Squaresoft and many other Japanese companies follow this same philosophy.

okay i'll leave this topic with the following phrase:

WOOO! this is awsome guys.... yeeeeeee GOW rocks!!

would that be a wiser choice?

edit: wounding was right. the best way of making friends in this forum is just to say everything is great with Sony. its how i feel, not a joke, but feel free to ignore my comments and make your own

[Pluto]

I'm glad that they're doing this.

This probably also means that it would be possible for development to begin, and end a lot sooner than scrapping everything, right?

[woundingchaney]

I'm glad that they're doing this.

This probably also means that it would be possible for development to begin, and end a lot sooner than scrapping everything, right?

Essentially yes.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

okay i'll leave this topic with the following phrase:

WOOO! this is awsome guys.... yeeeeeee GOW rocks!!

would that be a wiser choice?

edit: wounding was right. the best way of making friends in this forum is just to say everything is great with Sony. its how i feel, not a joke, but feel free to ignore my comments and make your own


cliffbo, your initial response seems like, if anything you read the quoted snippet in the first post and misinterpreted it as inherently a bad thing. Read the entire article if you haven't, and besides don't just assume that using tools they already have is somehow a handicap. :doh:

[Sypher]

This isn't surprising. It would take almost a year to create a new engine. If they weren't using those dev kits from day one to make an new engine(see SE White Engine), then they are way behind the curb.

Don't worry guys because its not going to be GoW3, its most likely a PSN game.

[cliffbo]

cliffbo, your initial response seems like, if anything you read the quoted snippet in the first post and misinterpreted it as inherently a bad thing. Read the entire article if you haven't, and besides don't just assume that using tools they already have is somehow a handicap. :doh:

DMC and katamari, appear to be old gen with a sheen, GOW using the older engine could mean the same for this game too. i'm keeping my eye on this to see if it becomes a trend, that's all... you can only be wise when you realise you are unwise; that is: you must take every piece of information, good or bad, to come to any real conclusion, i'm not being controversial just open minded. unfortunately every time a poster is called upon to explain his or her actions, it derails a thread... so apologise for that.

[totobeni]

Capcom used Onimusha 3 engine on Dead Rising , Lost Planet , DMC4 and REVIL 5 ..

GOW engine is so much better than Onimusha 3 engine , with some upgrades + PS EDGE tool to help we will have alot of cool games on PS3 ...and PS3 need games right now ..

[cliffbo]

Capcom used Onimusha 3 engine on Dead Rising , Lost Planet , DMC4 and REVIL 5 ..

GOW engine is so much better than Onimusha 3 engine , with some upgrades + PS EDGE tool to help we will have alot of cool games on PS3 ...and PS3 need games right now ..

oh there is no doubt i could be wrong... its just more rounded to take everything into consideration

[Siraris]

edit: wounding was right. the best way of making friends in this forum is just to say everything is great with Sony. its how i feel, not a joke, but feel free to ignore my comments and make your own

I totally agree with you that if you say anything negative about Sony on here (when justified) you are crucified. The difference is, you are someone who ALWAYS says how great things are with Sony, even when the things are bad. This isn't a bad thing AT ALL, so why say it's bad when it isn't? It just seems, silly.

[curryking1]

cliffbo, we get you, but it's just too early.

There's place for maybe a little concern, but nothing more than that because the engine may scale really well, or they might do a lot of modifying on it's capabilities.

Nothing to get worried about at this point. :)

If there's anything we can all have comfort knowing, this is definitely not gonna be as horrifying as the Onimusha 3 engine moving from the PS2 to 3.

But again, I understand your concern, let's just wait a bit for them. This is Sony first party, they do pretty crazy stuff. Like when the first GoW came out lol. You might be right though, but we really don't know enough yet.

[DC_613]

I think what they mean with the "affordable" is time spent in R&D on a new engine, yeah i would cost a bit of money but it would be another 2-3 maybe 4 years before we even see anything, with them having to make a new engine and all.......... and that would suck ass.

[cliffbo]

I totally agree with you that if you say anything negative about Sony on here (when justified) you are crucified. The difference is, you are someone who ALWAYS says how great things are with Sony, even when the things are bad. This isn't a bad thing AT ALL, so why say it's bad when it isn't? It just seems, silly.

i simply say what i see and feel. i may have appeared a total fanboy before because everything i said i believed, but that was then and this is now. HOME is amazing and so is LBP, Sony will win this gen and reach 200 million sales in my opinion. 1st party games will be fantastic in general and third party will eventually follow, but at the moment i see what i consider to be a trend growing, that's all, and i'm interested

[totobeni]

oh there is no doubt i could be wrong... its just more rounded to take everything into consideration

you never tell us why it's a bad news ..when it's infact good news to secure some good games for PS3

* example if HS used GOW engine then no one will doubt about that game

also every one used last gen engine without shame ...Nintendo for example is the bitch queen on this area

Super Mario 64 engine used in so many games ( all very good games ) ...here the list

Super Mario 64 --->Bajo Kazooie ---> Banjo 2 ---> Zelda OOT ----> Zelda MM ----> Conker 64 ( then upgrade ) Mario Sunshine ---> Star Fox DP .


it's not bad thing...

[cliffbo]

you never tell us why it's a bad news ..when it's infact good news to secure some good games for PS3

* example if HS used GOW engine then no one will doubt about that game

also every one used last gen engine without shame ...Nintendo for example is the bitch queen on this area

Super Mario 64 engine used in so many games ( all very good games ) ...here the list

Super Mario 64 --->Bajo Kazooie ---> Banjo 2 ---> Zelda OOT ----> Zelda MM ----> Conker 64 ( then upgrade ) Mario Sunshine ---> Star Fox DP .


it's not bad thing...

but HS is not using GOW engine...?! that analogy is pointless, with respect of course. i know what i expect from next gen and when i see it, feel it and play it, i'll tell you guys, but until then i'm happy with extrapolation... its much more interesting than just talking about characters in games or which game are best...

something like Uncharted may be what i've dreamed of for the last 5 years, we'll just have to wait and see

[vdo]

As long as they have developed a good framework that separates out functionality by layers in a good way, they should be able to reuse a lot of things. For example, when creating an application that goes against a db, if you separate out into style, presentation layer, business layer, service layer and db layer, then you can change the look of the app via the style without needing to change any user interface code in the presention layer and the rest of the underlying layers will remain the same. Similarly, a different db technology can be used and the only thing that has to be done is map the service layer to the new db and the business layer (with the app logic) can remain the same and the app look and feel can remain the same.

So if they have separated out their engine components well enough, then they can decide what pieces to modify that will be affected by the architecture change. They could change the layers that are closest to the actual hardware, and any layers above those could still interface with those layers in the same manner.

I think that the biggest need would be to use the SPEs where they can. If they can replace the layers that interface with the hardware with using the SPEs efficiently, they could get big gains. So that would mean when a higher layer called the same function in the lower level hardware layer, the difference it would see would be that it got the results magnitudes of orders faster. The higher layer would then perform the logic it needed to do, but getting those results faster should mean more things happening at higher resolutions.

[Z]

first of all, Calling all Cars is made with the GoW engine, IIRC.

second, these days, it is rare to see an engine built from scratch-regardless of what the creators claim. CPI may clarify on this. he mentioned along time ago that they just tweak and add to existing structures. IIRC, he said that games like Tekken never seen an engine made from scratch since PS2 deputed.

keeping the engine doesn't mean PS3 games will look like PS2 games (top ones at that). they can use it for things like PSN games or even PSP ones. they can also alter it in ways to make it up to date. you really think they would even attempt to make something as grand as GoW3 on PS3 with anythng but cutting edge technology?

[totobeni]

but HS is not using GOW engine...?! that analogy is pointless, with respect of course.

something like Uncharted may be what i've dreamed of for the last 5 years, we'll just have to wait and see

well ..I posted that question before and everyone in this forums said it was new Engine from Ninja Theory ..




i know what i expect from next gen and when i see it, feel it and play it, i'll tell you guys, but until then i'm happy with extrapolation... its much more interesting than just talking about characters in games or which game are best...


this new told us that there will be an good Engine for every SCEWWS studios that engine is easy to work on engine and available already..how is this bad thing ? ..I just don't understand ..


well do you think "Dead Rising" and "Lost Planet " both are "last gen" games then just cuz both used Onimusha 3 engine ?

GOW2 itself was way better than alot of so called next-gen games..GOW engine with upgrades can do alot for next-gen stuff in the futue ..

and if this the only way for SCEWWs to bring some good stuff for PS3 now ..then WE ALL should accept that ..cuz our PS3 desperately need good Games now...the super duper new engins , super cooler new ideas can came later ..

anyway ...there still will be something like L.A.I.R and Uncharted or other new engines for this gen on PS3 .

[cliffbo]

well ..I posted that question before and everyone in this forums said it was new Engine from Ninja Theory ..




this new told us that there will be an good Engine for every SCEWWS studios that engine is easy to work on engine and available already..how is this bad thing ? ..I just don't understand ..


well do you think "Dead Rising" and "Lost Planet " both are "last gen" games then just cuz both used Onimusha 3 engine ?

GOW2 itself was way better than alot of so called next-gen games..GOW engine with upgrades can do alot for next-gen stuff in the futue ..

and if this the only way for SCEWWs to bring some good stuff for PS3 now ..then WE ALL should accept that ..cuz our PS3 desperately need good Games now...the super duper new engins , super cooler new ideas can came later ..

anyway ...there still will be something like L.A.I.R and Uncharted or other new engines for this gen on PS3 .

to be honest...YES.

now your going to ask what i expect from next gen games... but i'm not going into that here. maybe i'll make a post another day when i can be bothered to really put my idea into words

[Nameless]

People being worried about this news is hillarious IMO...
How can you worry about game development when you have no idea of the process or development tools. I say shut up and wait until we see the final results with GOW3; if the engine is not up to par then complain.

Until then... :whogives:

[makeitlookreal]

I hope that they push the PS3 hardware as hard as they pushed the PS2 hardware.

If they spend the time, energy, and money doing this then I wish them great success.

If they simply make an HD and slightly upgraded God of War that does not push the PS3 hardware to the MAXIMUM then I hope their game fails.

I support developers that do what it takes to make their games push the hardware.

[cliffbo]

People being worried about this news is hillarious IMO...
How can you worry about game development when you have no idea of the process or development tools. I say shut up and wait until we see the final results with GOW3; if the engine is not up to par then complain.

Until then... :whogives:

LOL... thank you for being diplomatic, when you say people you have to mean me.... ;) what we really need to understand on this forum is that you can consider something without totally believing it. a concern can be very small, but nevertheless its a concern... and airing that concern is in no way hitting on Sony... please people understand this, this is why some posters, like wounding, think we have double standards here, and do you know what, how can you argue with him on this

[vdo]

Doesn't XNA go across 360 development and PC development? Isn't XNA proof that an engine can be made to go across multiple architecures (Intel vs. a triple core PowerPC)?

[makeitlookreal]

cliffbo,

Let me give you an example.

I expect God of War 3 to be absolutely fantastic and I expect them to push the hardware.

However, I do have a slight concern that they may not push the PS3 hardware as hard as they pushed the PS2 hardware.

If this happens I will be very irate and angry!

But I'm not going to bash the developers of God of War. I expect that they will do a great job. But I'm still a tad concerned.

[Nameless]

LOL... thank you for being diplomatic, when you say people you have to mean me.... ;) what we really need to understand on this forum is that you can consider something without totally believing it. a concern can be very small, but nevertheless its a concern... and airing that concern is in no way hitting on Sony... please people understand this, this is why some posters, like wounding, think we have double standards here, and do you know what, how can you argue with him on this

Not directly at you, but just in general...
Just does not make sense to get uptight about news like this IMO.
It really has nothing to do with Sony, I'm making a general statement regarding game development. If we actually saw footage of GOW3 in addition to this brief statement regarding the engine I could see some valid concerns, but at this point it's just no concern.

[totobeni]

to be honest...YES.

now your going to ask what i expect from next gen games... but i'm not going into that here. maybe i'll make a post another day when i can be bothered to really put my idea into words


...no...we all same us you ..we want real Next gen games (like Uncharted with 1000+ movement thing and facial expression and crap )..but you should know that not every games this gen is on Uncharted or L.I.A.R Quality bar and not every studio have the big money budget as ND and F-5...and not every dev studio can make next gen engins these days ..( making games get harder and crap )



just look at 97 % of X360 games ..that not mean it's a bad system or MS should banned all games uz it's not next-gen material on it and just make Gears of war and crackdown .

and i don't think it will used on GOW3 ...maybe barlog will made another one and GOW engine will user or other PS3 hack and slash .

my 2 cents ....

i believe is GOW engine can make "real" next gen games ..just Like what SM64 engine did on gamecube and Wii (Star Fox Adventures + Sunshine and "Wind Waker" engine was a modified OoT/MM engine which was a modified from SuperMario 64 one..( i even think even Zelda TP used a modified ver of Wind waker engine <---was a modified modified ver of the original Super Mario 64 .

[cliffbo]

Doesn't XNA go across 360 development and PC development? Isn't XNA proof that an engine can be made to go across multiple architecures (Intel vs. a triple core PowerPC)?

that is not next gen as far as i'm concerned. what i know is coming will knock every forum user off their seat. did you see LBP coming? NO! that is the impact that true next gen games will have. one example: you will no longer control a character, you will guide him or her.

i believe is GOW engine can make "real" next gen games ..just Like what SM64 engine did on gamecube and Wii (Star Fox Adventures + Sunshine and "Wind Waker" engine was a modified OoT/MM engine which was a modified from SuperMario 64 one..( i even think even Zelda TP used a modified ver of Wind waker engine <---was a modified modified ver of the original Super Mario 64 .
Reply With Quote

i think it could too

[totobeni]

that is not next gen as far as i'm concerned. what i know is coming will knock every forum user off their seat. did you see LBP coming? NO! that is the impact that true next gen games will have. one example: you will no longer control a character, you will guide him or her.



i think it could too

not all game can do what LBP did ..and we just don't know if LBP will be a success or a big disaster on sales ..

Plus..the fact that MS just push "next gen " to much earlier with '05 X360 when every dev and game designers can't even do the best of current (last gen ) machines ( GCN , PS2 , Xbox ) ..and that why too much x360 and PS3 games look and play in last gen era .

i think it was the better for next gen systems ( X360 and PS3 ) to go in 2008 insted of 2005 ..

[makeitlookreal]

The fact is this.

God of War tremendously pushed the PS2. It was a graphically stunning game.

I hope everyone will in a nice polite sort of way put pressure on them to push the PS3 just as hard to make God of War for the PS3 be just as graphically stunning of a game as was God of War on the PS2.

I expect they will do this. However, if they don't I hope that the gaming community will protest by not purchasing the game.

[cliffbo]

not all game can do what LBP did ..and we just don't know if LBP will be a success or a big disaster on sales ..


i was talking about our response to it

[totobeni]

i was talking about our response to it

:beer: yeah i follow you up there ..i just want to wrote that...

I expect they will do this. However, if they don't I hope that the gaming community will protest by not purchasing the game.

will not happened ...

GOW and GOW2 rep just make that franchise Unstoppable...even if the thrid one was a flight Sim ..

...maybe if nintendo fans don't buy Mario party 666 and "super paper bros Mario war in luigi room 8 bit port" for the 100 times then PS fans will not buy GOW3 ..:guns:

[Smokey]

cliffbo,

Let me give you an example.

I expect God of War 3 to be absolutely fantastic and I expect them to push the hardware.

However, I do have a slight concern that they may not push the PS3 hardware as hard as they pushed the PS2 hardware.

If this happens I will be very irate and angry!

However, I do have a slight concern that they may not push the PS3 hardware as hard as they pushed the PS2 hardware.

If this happens I will be very irate and angry!

But I'm not going to bash the developers of God of War. I expect that they will do a great job. But I'm still a tad concerned.

people the console is 6 months OLD i mean c'mon theres a long way to go yet!!

[LaLiLuLeLo]

What has me miffed is having any concern whatsoever over what is at the moment vapor-ware.

[curryking1]

Yes.. let's put this a bit more in perspective lol. There will be lots of Sony guys pushing the PS3 hardware. To push it more, it will take time. God of War did come out in the latter half of the PS2 lifecycle, they probably knew more nooks and crannies than they know of the PS3.

I must say though, I want God of War to be a showcase PS3 title. Let's hope it's a showcase PS3 title relative to the early part of the PS3 life.

[Diresu]

One would wonder how scalable the engine is?? After all there is a good bit of difference in the architecture and hardware from the PS2 to PS3. In the end this is definetely nothing to be alarmed about in the least, so far we have 2 excellent titles from this engine why question it now. Regardless Im sure some will have to be reconfigured but in the end I doubt any engine doesnt have its basis on previous ones (even the "next gen" engines).
Thats why they say are rewritting a large part of the engine to work with the new architechture. I just think the "core' is the same because they are used to it and they spend a large sum making it so if they can modify the engine where it can be used on the ps3 without any handicap...why not do it? They will rewrite the parts that need to be changed to work with the ps3 hardware as they said.

P.S. I really think people have no right to be skeptical of what that team can do after delivering 2 best action games of the last generation. Give them more credit then that people.

[dnpmakkah]

I agree with Cliffbo. If GOW3 looks even remotely similar to GOW 1 and 2 I would be greatly dissapointed. It's not all about looks but there needs to be a major jump in graphics considering this is next gen.

GOW 1 and 2 looked great for a PS2 title but it would look terrible for a PS3 title.

[agentorange]

I hope so

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Agentorange downsize your sig please.