PS3 vs 360 quality (56k sucks lots of pics)

[jaxmkii]

lets take a break from games and talk hardware. im not going to add comments im just going to show picks of the two systems parts and let you make the first comments.

PS3 cooling system:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_25.jpg
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_28.jpg
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_27.jpg
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_29.jpg

360s cooling system:
http://members.arstechnica.com/x/benji/6large.jpg

http://members.arstechnica.com/x/benji/7large.jpg

360 HDD: http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/system/microsoft/xbox360/hd_outL.jpg

PS3 HDD: http://www.slashgear.com/gallery/data_files/7/4/PS3_HDD_upgrade_3.jpg

360 mother board:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2005/1210/xbox56.jpg


ps3 mother board:
http://media.ps3scene.com/images/opened/ps3_32.jpg

360 GPU:http://members.arstechnica.com/x/benji/gpu.jpg


360 CPU: http://members.arstechnica.com/x/benji/5small.jpg


PS3 CPU:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_35.jpg

PS3 GPU:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_36.jpg

360 memory controler:


PS3 memory controler:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_34.jpg

360 power supply:
http://ifelse.co.uk/images/360_psu.jpg

PS3 power supply: http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_21.jpg

i could not find and internal pictured of a optical drives taken apart any help would be nice.

[jaxmkii]

please hold some of the 360 photos failed im trying to find new ones

[Viper]

A bunch of your pics aren't showing up.

EDIT:
OK. Just host them yourself.

[jaxmkii]

i just found differant ones

[Viper]

And just for comparison sake, here's the Wii's motherboard.



http://wiire.org/images/4/4a/Wii_mb_top.jpg

[jaxmkii]

^ KISS method? lotta empty realestate

both the PS3 and Wii lack the banks and banks of big bulky capacitors and seem to have much better heat spreaders than 360.

what dose Wii use for cooling? just sinks at 17watts it cant make that much heat.

[Viper]

Does that mean a Wii Lite or Slim could be done in a few year? That's crazy.

[jaxmkii]

Does that mean a Wii Lite or Slim could be done in a few year? That's crazy.
it looks like they could do it now!

that board could be half that size if they wanted. I bet its that size only for ease of manufacture. Got any more Wii pics? can you ad "VS Wii to the headline?

anyone feel free to add Wii internal parts pics. ill add them to the first post.

you know now that you sayed it if you look at the 360s motherboard if they used shother capacitors came up with a shorther cooling solution and a pop top DVD drive and mounted the HDD logitudly a slim line 360 could be done easly.

as far as the PS3 theres no hope. its as small as its going to get for a while.

[Overload]

Well Sony's a hardware company, we should expect no less.

[frosty]

Very true. As many devs have stated before, MS is good (not great though) on software and shitty on hardware, and Sony is great on hardware (save for optical drives on the past 2 generations) and shitty on software. Note that when I say software I mean the stuff the devs use to make these games, not the games themselves.

[Mr. Coww]

If they organized the ps3 board better you would save space and heat issues and probly get a slight increase in speed. Look how long those connections between chips are, they circumnavigate the board itself. They could move most of the large chips together and get a massive single heat sink on them to cool better then the passive fluid tubes.
As the for the 360 it locks like a PC motherboard, shocking huh?
The wii cant get any smaller due too the drive itself, it looks like the systems limiting factor is the media it uses.
It seems almost comical how diffrent their methods for making a board are.

[jaxmkii]

If they organized the ps3 board better you would save space and heat issues and probly get a slight increase in speed. Look how long those connections between chips are, they circumnavigate the board itself. They could move most of the large chips together and get a massive single heat sink on them to cool better then the passive fluid tubes.
As the for the 360 it locks like a PC motherboard, shocking huh?
The wii cant get any smaller due too the drive itself, it looks like the systems limiting factor is the media it uses.
It seems almost comical how diffrent their methods for making a board are.
that goes agenst the laws of thermal dynamics.

seeing how tightly everything is packed into the PS3 i can't see how anychanges could be made untill cell and RSX get much smaller and cooler.

[Shadow Voa]

Im glad this thread was closed in the Wii section, way to spam it across all the boards. >_>

[koten]

Those are very pretty pictures, but I don't have any idea what they're supposed to mean.

[Mr. Coww]

I didnt mean a single solo heat sink i ment a single structure with many parts to pull more away from a single area, look at micro ATX boards on how they organize themselves, those boards are smaller then the Wiis and have far more crap to drain heat from.
Ive done alot of work on pcs in my life and have seen what a lackluster heat removal system does, hell i got a pentuim 2 chip thats literaly blown apart from a failed cooling fan. Infact if i can find it ill take a photo its just cool.
Also i find this kinda of debate kinda of nice, we are debating a build not a systems power. If any one has some old systems and pull them apart to show how things have changed that would be usefull for this debate.
If i can pop my saturn apart ill snap some shots of the board, that system had one messed up mainboard.

[F089/H]

Nicely Done Jax!

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Yo. Yeah lots of pics isn't a problem but do you HAVE to rape everyone's h-scroll? cripes, resize them bitches.

[jaxmkii]

Im glad this thread was closed in the Wii section, way to spam it across all the boards. >_>

well that sux i was hoping for some imput and pics from the Wii camp.

its intresting to see that the effect of each Co. past

the one picture viper put up of the Wii reminds me of something i would expect to see in a dedicated machine. simple rugged nothing fragle simple to build.

the 360 looks like a home built PC lots of haphasardly placed componets. everything looks like its off the shelf parts. Things just dont seem to fit well together. it looks and perfomes like something that was rushed though the R&D phase. sorry if my opinion is harsh but coming from a family of R&D enginers craftsmanship and reliablity are not to be ignored. its reliablity seems to echo this sentiment.

the PS3 is enginered to an excess. Sony cought alot of gripe for the PS2s reliablity its almost as if they where trying to make up for it with PS3. the eligant desine continues on the inside with stainless steel hardware T5058 aluminum copper heat pipes and a cooling fan that would make Electric boat proud. low profile capacitors solodly mounted to the main well thoughtout PCMB. every componet made fill the contours of its smoked polycarbonate housing. The ps1 and ps2 looked like toys inside and out but not PS3. It feels and looks sold like something thats going to be running 20 years from now. overenginered maybe, but inside and out it looks like something that cost billions of dollors and five years to devlop. even if they charged 840usd there cost to build it i would still feel like its worth it. my 1200usd DTS reciver lacks the build quality of PS3. now if we only had more good games.

[Khaos]

We at the Wii camp will find this thread where it is. Haha.

And on behalf of the Wii camp, I would like to point out: Our pics have labels!

[jaxmkii]

^ thats cause sony puts the label right on the part!
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_36.jpg

[Segitz]

I find the PS3 is a masterpiece of electrical engineering (I am a mechanical engineer myself). It as a very nice asthetic to itself. The 360s board just looks ugly and cluttered compared to it.

Also the PS3s fan has many manhours put into it. The 360 just uses off the shelf stuff instead, no question this thing gets loud and often breaks.



This may sound like a real fanboy post, but this is just a comparision of the engineering that went into the design of the systems.

[iceman2654]

^ As a computer engineer major I totally agree. But alas you can't judge the quality of the build based on layout. You'd have to look at the components they use. More specifically the tolerances. But I doubt we'll ever find that information.

On a personal note.....I'm done exams!! YAYYYYYY.

[Applefiend]

http://members.arstechnica.com/x/benji/gpu.jpg

That's no way to apply thermal grease, look at the state of that son.

Just a dab guv, no need to spread it like butter.

[iceman2654]

I take it that's the CPU. Maybe the paste got all squished when the heatsink was removed.

[Applefiend]

A lot of people with 360s overheating found out if you take your 360 apart(only do this out of warranty mind), clean off that big dab of poo, apply some sexy artic silver top quality thermal grease correctly you can solve your overheating problems.

Super Likie!

[=NukeBlaze=]

iceman2654

^ As a computer engineer major I totally agree. But alas you can't judge the quality of the build based on layout. You'd have to look at the components they use. More specifically the tolerances. But I doubt we'll ever find that information.

Aye, but the PS3 does use all solid state capacitors, which do have a capacitance that drifts less with temperature, and as a components does last longer than the electrolytic capacitors on the Xbox 360 board. It also appears that all of the regulators and step downs are solid state on the PS3 board as well.

The 360 board seems more akin to a computer motherboard.

[Phoenix]

The 360 board seems more akin to a computer motherboard.Gee, I wonder why that would be. :)

[IEatFriedPikmin]

but i thought the ps3 was suppose to replace your computer.

[TheGreenElf]

While funny, let's not start this stuff...

Yo. Yeah lots of pics isn't a problem but do you HAVE to rape everyone's h-scroll? cripes, resize them bitches.

LOL...so true.

[iceman2654]

Aye, but the PS3 does use all solid state capacitors, which do have a capacitance that drifts less with temperature, and as a components does last longer than the electrolytic capacitors on the Xbox 360 board. It also appears that all of the regulators and step downs are solid state on the PS3 board as well.

The 360 board seems more akin to a computer motherboard.

Good point. Kudos to Sony for using high quality parts :cheers:

[pac4life]

Well obviously the Japanese systems are gonna be made smarter than the 360. The first time i heard my 360 on i couldn't believe how loud it was...then i popped the game in and i couldn't even hear my gears of wars characters talking.


Damn you microsoft. But thanks for the excellent controller :)


Oh and the brick is literally the size of my Wii

[GleefulFarewell]

but i thought the ps3 was suppose to replace your computer.


Lololol

:spiral:

[jaxmkii]

but i thought the ps3 was suppose to replace your computer.

wow thats compleatly irelivent but ok.

what dose this have to do with hardware?

[XboxEvolved]

A lot of that stuff you see on the 360 isn't thermal paste, it is actually glue that is put all over the chips to keep hackers and such from messing with it, it is also a cheaper way of keeping it fastened in.

Keep in mind that all three hardware has one thing in common: They were co-developed by IBM, Sony, Nintendo, and Sony share similiar suppliers, and Microsoft intentionally made things the way they did to get cost cutting benefits before their compeition could. Sony did something similiar with the PS2, switching to suppliers that GC and Xbox used to make sure they could get cost-cutting faster.

[Haris]

Just wanna say thanks for putting this thread up I learned a little bit by reading some of that.

:-D

[=NukeBlaze=]

A lot of that stuff you see on the 360 isn't thermal paste, it is actually glue that is put all over the chips to keep hackers and such from messing with it, it is also a cheaper way of keeping it fastened in.

Everything on the GPU and CPU is a thermal strip they apply to the heatsink then clamp onto the two dies, while the epoxy is only a failed attempt on the elite to better secure the chips to the board.

The only instance I have heard of them using epoxy is applying it to the Firmware chip to help prevent tampering, as most mod chips require firmware chip soldering.

[jaxmkii]

Bumping this for a freind

[curryking1]

I didn't see this thread before.

I hope I'm not the only one who thinks the PS3 with the first layer taken off looks like a space ship.