Super Smash Bros. Brawl - Updates & Hype Thread

[Zeep]

wow...that picto chat level looks amazing....it so darn creative with all those interactive drawings....

oh...and...



1500th reply
this thread is a beast

no, 1,500th post.


THIS is the 1,500th reply.

Also, I can't wait to try fighting with the Mii Channel or Shop Channel music in the background. i also really want to hear how they're going to make a Pictochat song.

[Phoenix]

They're going to make death metal remixes, duh.

I must say, PictoChat looks like it's going to be brilliant. Dynamic, but not overly gimmicky.

[Lynk Former]

Actually the pictochat level is pretty much just the Game & Watch level mixed with the Pokemon floats level... but the Mii Channel and Shop Channel levels will be interesting XD

[Hisham]

It would be awesome if you could somehow get one of your friends to use a DS to draw random shit on Pictochat that shows up on the screen haha.

[Phoenix]

I wonder if the magical disembodied stylus ever draws penises.

[Hylian-Advocate]

Actually the pictochat level is pretty much just the Game & Watch level mixed with the Pokemon floats level... but the Mii Channel and Shop Channel levels will be interesting XD

it didn't say there there will be Mii and Shop channel levels..... just that the music will be playable in the pictochat level

[ninnin]

I love this new Stage!! I lke to see these guys thinking outside of the box!

[gigabowser666]

what would be nice is being sble to connect a DS to the game go to pictochat and a 5th could draw the stage lol

[Lynk Former]

it didn't say there there will be Mii and Shop channel levels..... just that the music will be playable in the pictochat level
oh yeah, i forgot.... don't you wish i was right though XD

[BananaBabeQT]

The PictoChat stage looks pretty interesting, it seems simple graphics but it looks really interactive.

So is the new video with Donkey Kong supposed to show what the adventure mode is like right? Hmmm looks interesting I guess

[Delirious]

From the looks of it, you wont be able to draw your own stuff on the picto level, too bad it would be awesome. Id draw those little flames everywhere just to piss people off.

[SuperLuigiBros]

Id draw dicks just to piss people off. So would everyone else.

[Delirious]

I think thats exactly why nintendo doesnt want to let us draw our own picto levels lol.

[BananaBabeQT]

As cool as someone sitting there with a DS drawing the level out would be, it would probably end up pretty perverted.

[Hylian-Advocate]

YEAH.... VIDEO SAVES...


"This time, you can view replays. What this means is, the game records what you did in brawls or in Target Smash and lets you review it."


woah!!!!..... and the new Target Sash is awesome.....

I knew it was going to be in the game.....but not like this....

5 stages (with varying difficulties to choose from)....... for each character.....

and there will be items in some of these stages too..... that will add a whole new dynamic.

AND it saves up to three minutes of video footage to send to your friends....

now if only there were a freaking hard-drive (or at least let it use the damn SD card slot ...I mean...it already there and not even used) ....we could save lengthy games in normal multiplayer battles.... I mean....its wicked that you can record.....but only three minutes ......a round of stock match will be way longer than 3 minutes...... but heck....at least the features going to be included... and .....you could technically save entire matches if you were to make them timed matched under three minutes....

it's no Halo 3 video editor..... but that's probably only due to lack of hard drive and not from lack of trying on Sakurai's part..... come on Nintendo.... release a damn USB HardDrive!!!!!

(I'll have you know....thats the entire reason for no downloadable songs for Guitar Hero 3 as well)

this game already has so much content packed into it and I can assume, probably pretty safely, that they haven't even shown the half of it!

[Shadow Voa]

Eat that Halo 3! Lol

Nah, a neat feature I will most definitely put to good use with some of the matches my friends and I have.

[Phoenix]

Is it 5 per character or just 5?

[SuperLuigiBros]

^Thats what I was wondering... he definitely didn't say 5 per character specifically, but I would assume that each character has their own level since thats how its always been done. I would like each character to have their own level because its awesome seeing how theyve been set up to cater for each moveset. For example, you can always tell in Link's one theres a target you have to hit with an arrow.

The point, however, is that Break the Targets is awesome. Now Im just waiting for Board the Platforms. That was really cool.

[Zethral]

As I interpret it, the announcement said that there'll be 5 break-the-target stages, period. This means that there will be more gameplay (5 x characters, rather than 1 per character), but less content (only 5 stages, rather than 1 for every character). I'm fine with that, having more stuff to do is more entertaining to me than having something unique for each character.

Halo 3's recording doesn't seem like anything special. It's just something that every game should have. The notable thing about it is that it's on a console system. It's definitely a nice touch that Smash Bros is following suit.

I can't tell whether they're saying you can record 3 minutes total, or 3 minutes per match. If it's 3 minutes total, it'll only be good for people who want to make a temporary recording, before transfering it to video.. so I'm guessing it's 3 minutes per match.

[KeyBlade]

I miss board the platform. I know what im about to say has nothing to do with this forum, but I heard that zero suit samus is now a seperate playable character from the regular samus, is this true because im not updated.

[Zeep]

No, she's not. Samus Transforms into Zero Suit Samus after using her Final Smash, and vice versa.

[Hylian-Advocate]

well... I guess you guys are right....it doesn't say five per character necessarily..... which is kinda disappointing in my mind if that is the case....(which again is technically unclear at the moment).....

but I guess ... even if that's true....the targets would probably still be placed differently for each character on all five stages..... at least I would assume so....considering the vast differences in abilities....

anyway...for some reason... I still think it doesn't make sense for there just to be five total that each character plays on.... I mean.... sonic for example could dash and home into the targets way to easy in some of the levels shown.... I don't know... but I stilll hope for fiver unique stages per character.... either way it should be great fun and loads more content...


and Zethral.....

I too originally thought it meant just 3 minutes total.... but now that I think about it....why couldn't it just be 3 minutes per match until your memory is full or something....who knows......it will be interesting to hear the specifics..... also....technically.....you're right.... the halo 3 video editing feature is not really anything new....just most games don't utilize it to the extent that halo 3 has done..... and I can't see why not many have done it yet.... I guess it's because of the hard-drives. That's how they get away with saving 20 matches of endless length practically.....

and I wouldn't really say that Sakurai is following in Halo 3's footsteps with this feature either.....think bout how EVERYONE would pause the game and check out crazy things happening on screen..... you've gotta think that hes been thinking about this feature for a long time now...

I wonder if you can transfer these videos and screen captures onto SD cards via the SD Card slot and upload them to your computer.... that would be bad ass..... not as easy as bungie's automatic uploading them to their server thing...but meh..... it would still be cool to be able to do that.

[Zeep]

Nintendo should partner with Google and completely redo their online system. Then they should add a feature so you could upload videos directly to YouTube. Take THAT, Halo 3.

[nayrk]

not that it's really relevant... but i saw a digital camera at wally world that could capture movies in *tada* youtube format....
(>'')>
---

Movie thingy kinda cool... doubt I'll use it much though

[Hylian-Advocate]

Nintendo should partner with Google and completely redo their online system. Then they should add a feature so you could upload videos directly to YouTube. Take THAT, Halo 3.

lol..that would be cool.....except....Opera would have to be on board too.

[Zeep]

Not really. They just make the browser.

[Teh Roxor!]

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/kingdedede/kingdedede_071025c-l.jpg

King Dedede has been anounced as a character.

[OnBake Platinum]

That's funny cuase someone did a great looking mock up of him and the real thing turns out to be even better. I wonder if he will have a black person voice like he does in the extremely gay show.

[SuperLuigiBros]

Yep pretty cool. I never really liked him but he does look pretty cool.

How do you pronounce it? "Dee Dee Dee" or "Dee Deed"

[Mirai]

22 characters and counting...

Certainly making my prediction of a minimum of 32 (I believe) seem a real possibility, especially since we've still got the likes of Ganondorf, Mewtwo, Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff and Luigi to be confirmed, and a whole world of possibilities past those more-than-likely veterans...

[Delirious]

Wow, thats some awesomeness there, we get a new character today. I knew Dedede was gonna come in to play in this game. I hope he has some kickass moves. You know what, I still have no idea exactly what kind of creature Dedede is supposed to be. Is he a penguin or something?

[OnBake Platinum]

Have you not realized that all Kirby characters are fucked up? He's not anything.

And it's De, de, de, Cube.

[koten]

YES! This makes Brawl that much better. Now if they make Ridley playable, this game will be perfect.

[Phoenix]

I strongly doubt it, they have the vs. Ridley music in the game, so I assume he's a boss.

I like how Zeep's post ended in "browser" and then Teh's picture had Bowser in it prominently.

[BananaBabeQT]

Soo... another guy from Kirby huh, I really need to play some Kirby games so I know who these people are. He looks cool though, he reminds me of the ice climbers though with his big mallet/hammer.

[Hylian-Advocate]

^man... how can people not know who King Dedede is???!!! I was reading through some other places and it seems there is a small bunch of you guys.....

Kirby's Dreamland!!!!! one of the best games evar and then of course you have the sequal for the NES Kirby's Adventure.... also one of the best ever....which you can download on the Virtual Console.....

Dedede is the last boss...and there is also the egg catcher minigame where your in the boxing ring and he throws eggs and bombs at you.....


basically hes the menace who stole all of dreamlands treats and food!.... damn that Dedede!....lol

[Ch1cago88]

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/kingdedede/kingdedede_071025c-l.jpg

Wow, has anyone noticed the scale size of King Dedede's hammer compared to the fighters? Holy shit it's huge!

Also does this mean the "icon character appearance theory" is false? Or does it still work? I never read up on it.

[ninnin]

By looking at this, each character will have a villan to go along with each hero. Assuming that every character will have their own story in stroy mode this would mean every one will have their villan. Link will have Ganondorf, Samus would have Ridely, ect. Just my theory.

[Shadow Voa]

He still will use the Kirby star icon anyway.

[Dakota Grabowski]

glad to see him in the game, he was one of the guys I was calling for to be introduced in the series like 15 pages back lol.

[Zeep]

By looking at this, each character will have a villan to go along with each hero. Assuming that every character will have their own story in stroy mode this would mean every one will have their villan. Link will have Ganondorf, Samus would have Ridely, ect. Just my theory.

so who will fox's villian be? it can't be wolf, since he was confirmed as an alt costume of fox, and andross is an assist trophy.

also, can multiple heroes share one villian? mario/peach -> bowser. link/zelda -> ganondorf.

i'm just saying, your theory has quite a few holes so far.

[ninnin]

http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/32197/t1023376-luigi/

some retard gave away luigi

[ninnin]

so who will fox's villian be? it can't be wolf, since he was confirmed as an alt costume of fox, and andross is an assist trophy.

also, can multiple heroes share one villian? mario/peach -> bowser. link/zelda -> ganondorf.

i'm just saying, your theory has quite a few holes so far.

1. How is wolf a alt costume?

2. Yes that can happen

[Dakota Grabowski]

if the villain theory applies then...

Sonic = Knuckles / Shadow / Dr. Robotnik
Donkey Kong / Diddy Kong = King K. Rool

[Zeep]

that too. sonic and snake. there's no way they'll put in more than one character from one third-party series.

[Hylian-Advocate]

1. How is wolf a alt costume?

You know how you can change colors in Melee for when multiple people choose the same character.....and for example.... how when you changed peaches color.....one of them was a color scheme that made her look like daisy....

well....same idea but with fox....

In the demo made for the last press event and for E for All..... their was an alternate 'color scheme' that made him look like Wolf.

[Zeep]

So Krystal has been pseudo-confirmed.

http://www.alesiaglidewell.com/vo_games.htm

[Phoenix]

I am giddy like a schoolgirl! For both of them!

Though you can't be too sure with this kind of stuff. They could very easy be fakes.

[Hylian-Advocate]

nice find Zeep....where did you find that.....or rather...who/what site found that??

hahhaha.....she also did a commercial for my schools Womans basketball team....

the Oregon Ducks of course!... Go Ducks!

[Zeep]

A friend linked me to it. Not sure where he heard about it.

[Phoenix]

How creditable is this? Any confirmation the site existed before that went up?

[Mirai]

Even if this is for real, it could easily be voice work for an assist trophy.

[SuperLuigiBros]

^Thats what i was going to say. Knuckle Joe is there, and he's an assist.

[Hylian-Advocate]

^yeah....I guess thats true.....but.... I don't know... I see Krystal as more or a real character than an assist trophy..... we'll see I guess..... because technically Zero Suit Samus is there too..... and shes a real character....hehhehe

[OnBake Platinum]

Wow, Dedede has some weird moves. The Jet is awesome. Waddle Doo is all polygontal, wtf?

[Hylian-Advocate]

I am assuming he's supposed to be that way...adn you just couldn't tell the difference in the other kirby games or something....considering the other models are all smooth....

anyway.... yeah.....pretty crazy stuff..... I still think he should throw a bunch of eggs and bombs though.... that would be kinda funny.

[Blaksmoke]

Yeah, King Dedede is a great induction I think (although a little smaller than I would think, but maybe that's because I always compared him to Kirby's size), better than Meta Knight.

Not that Meta Knight is a bad induction. Krystal, on the other hand, would be a horrible addition. You should be in one good game before being put into Smash Bros, and just because Star Fox could end up a little underrepresented doesn't mean adding...her.

[Phoenix]

I think Meta Knight is an ideal fit for Smash Bros. He's the perfect mix of whimsical and intimidating, he's been in the Kirby series for a long time. Not to mention he has a lot of possibility for fun, unique moves. That's also Krystal's strong point: she could have a really varied moveset that would be fun to play. Plus she has been a Star Fox character for a decent amount of time now, and even though none of the games have been excellent (though I did really like Assault), they have all been pretty enjoyable, so I think she'd fit in fine. Also rawr. :)

[Blaksmoke]

I just think the overall design of Krystal is just uncreative. Yeah, she's better than Kat from Star Fox 64, but she's still purple fox who was invented solely to be a female character in a game where everyone else was a dude in some form or another. The fact that she has a fair chance of being thrown into Brawl is due to a similar predicament: the game is short on girls. Which probably one of the main reasons they kept the Ice Climbers, not to mention split Zelda and Samus into two different fighters. Don't get me wrong, those were great ideas, but....I don't even know. Something about Krystal just irks me. Of course, I really can't complain if she's added to the game. The more the merrier. She just has crappy prerequisites.

Blah.

[Phoenix]

At least she has actual character traits and story for once. *accusatively glares at non-Peach Mario girls*

[Hylian-Advocate]

I wou7ld have to agree that I am not that big on Krystal that much.... First of all.....why is she purple anyway!???

[Phoenix]

It's more of a blue, I think.

[Hylian-Advocate]

well.....yea....I guess....but why....all the others were normal FOX and FROG and FALCON colors weren't they?.... welll I gues not...falcon was blue...more like a bluejay

[Delirious]

oh mah gawd cant wait to play as giga in brawl. yeah thats an old update I know but I just got around to looking at all of the character pages at smashdojo.

[Teh Roxor!]

II like how Zeep's post ended in "browser" and then Teh's picture had Bowser in it prominently.

I'm glad I wasn't the only person to notice that. It made reading the word "browser" correctly rather difficult.

You should be in one good game before being put into Smash Bros, and just because Star Fox could end up a little underrepresented doesn't mean adding...her.

Command was fun, man!

[Mirai]

well.....yea....I guess....but why....all the others were normal FOX and FROG and FALCON colors weren't they?.... welll I gues not...falcon was blue...more like a bluejay

I believe she is based on the Silver Morph of Reds Foxes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Fox#Fur_trade

[Teh Roxor!]

I thought this was the 21st century, where we are supposed to judge people based not on the color of their fur, but rather the content of their character!

[Dakota Grabowski]

Here are all the characters I proposed in that last post. This is how I'd rank them.

1. Wart
http://www.mariosmythology.com/divers/dico/images/wart.jpg

2. Captain Olimar
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/9/99/200px-Olimarart.jpg

3. Diddy Kong
http://mutako2.blog.jeuxvideo.com/images/mn/1123587806.jpg

4. Kamek or Kammy
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/7/72/180px-Kamekbroom.jpg
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/2/2b/200px-Kammy_Koopa.jpg

5. Koopalings
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1b/SevenKoopalings.jpg

6. King Dedede
http://knd.ngamer.net/chark/main/dedede2.gif

7. Golden Sun Characters
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a3/GSIsaac.jpg

8. Crystal
http://www.universo-nintendo.com/files/Imagenes/Krystal_StarFox_Assault.jpg

9. Little Mac
http://www.n-philes.com/m/news/ttns/cp/punchout/mtpomacdoc.jpg

10. Tom Nook
http://powet.tv/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/tanukichi.jpg

11. Dixie Kong
http://www.nintendopedia.org/images/9/96/DixieKong.jpg

12. New Pokemon

13. General Scales
http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/gc/starfoxadv/scales.jpg

14. Waluigi
http://www.detstar.com/files/features/supersmashbrosbrawl/waluigi.jpg

15. Tingle
http://main.zeldafront.com/pages/radio/tingle.jpg

So far Diddy Kong, King Dedede, Tom Nook, and Little Mac have all found their way in some form or another

Outside of that post, I also posed they bring in King K. Rool which I am crossing my fingers for.

Here is the rest of the roster I'd like to see based on 34 characters total

New Characters:
#1: Captain Olimar
#2: King K. Rool
#3: Isaac (Golden Sun)
#4: Noxus (Metroid) - he makes sense since he's not too big of a fighter that Ridley is. If they can somehow get Ridley in based on the size, then I am all for it but I just don't see it.
#5: Peppy Hare or Krystal or Slippy Toad (for more of the Star Fox Team)

Returning Characters:
#1: Ganondorf
#2: Young Link / Cel-shaded Link
#3: Luigi (already confirmed basically)
#4: Falco
#5: Captain Falcon

1 More 3rd Party Character:
#1: Mega Man / Ryu / Zero / one of the Capcom characters

Assist Trophies:
#1: Mr. Game & Watch
#2: Ridley
#3: Dr. Crygor or Jimmy T
#4: Andy (Advanced Wars)
#5: Palutena
#6: Tingle
#7: King Boo
#8: Kamek or Kammy
#9: Nester
#10: Balloon Fighter

Alternate Forms:
#1: Sheik (not confirmed but should right?)
#2: Dr. Mario

[nayrk]

I still would really like to see Alucard or Simon Belmont...

[Phoenix]

Luigi hasn't technically been confirmed. Nintendo hasn't said anything about his inclusion officially, so you still need to be at least somewhat skeptical. That said, I'm pretty sure that whether that interview was fake or not, he'll still be in there. Also, I think Sheik being in the game in one way or another has been "confirmed" the same way Luigi was a while back, along with Ganondorf. The same uncertainty still applies, naturally.

Oh hush, Teh, and get to the back of the bus.

[Ch1cago88]

Luigi hasn't technically been confirmed. Nintendo hasn't said anything about his inclusion officially, so you still need to be at least somewhat skeptical. That said, I'm pretty sure that whether that interview was fake or not, he'll still be in there. Also, I think Sheik being in the game in one way or another has been "confirmed" the same way Luigi was a while back, along with Ganondorf. The same uncertainty still applies, naturally.

Oh hush, Teh, and get to the back of the bus.

Here's the interview I think your talking about. I think it's legit.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-8W19ljhK7E

[ninnin]

Here's the interview I think your talking about. I think it's legit.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-8W19ljhK7E

Dude I put that up before anyone here! lol

[Zeep]

I don't think it's a question of being legit or not. i think he just starts listing off typical nintendo characters, and the first ones that come to mind are mario and luigi.

[Teh Roxor!]

Can any of you really imagine Luigi NOT being included?

[SuperLuigiBros]

Yeh Luigi will be in for sure. And that guy who was interviewed didn't even seem to know what the hell he was talking about. He really had to think about what characters were in the game and only came up with a couple. He so doesn't know if Luigi's in it or not, but threw his name out there because Mario and Luigi are always together.

In other news, I went to a Halloween party last night dressed at Luigi. I am very cool.

[Mirai]

Shit, you must've been rollin' in the pussy...

[the poe collector]

He was probably cockblocked by some guy dressed as Mario.

[Hylian-Advocate]

OMG.... what a megaton announcement...

STAGE BUILDER

You can create your own stages this time?! No way. REALLY?! With a feature like that, won’t I be able to play this game forever?!

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/gamemode/various/images/various10/various10_071029a-l.jpg

Apparently it’s true...!!!

Those who enjoy a little effort may be able to enjoy this stage builder for the rest of their lives.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/gamemode/various/images/various10/various10_071029b-l.jpg

First, start from the initialize setting.

You start by choosing the size of the stage, the background pattern, and the music that will play. Oops! Sorry. For music, you’ll only be able to choose from the songs you have available.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/gamemode/various/images/various10/various10_071029c-l.jpg

This is the edit screen!

Basically, you choose parts from the palette on the side and place them in the field.

The controls vary by controller, but each one can do the following:
* Flip parts left to right
* Enlarge or shrink parts
* Zoom in or out on the screen
* Swap palettes
* Erase

...Among other things.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/gamemode/various/images/various10/various10_071029d-l.jpg

Just place terrain however you like. Chuckity-chuckity-CHUCK!

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/gamemode/various/images/various10/various10_071029e-l.jpg

Then try it out!

Modify it and try it... Repeat as necessary. Make your own ideal stage!

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/gamemode/various/images/various10/various10_071029f-l.jpg

Mmm... That’s amazing.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/gamemode/various/images/various10/various10_071029g-l.jpg

And you can save a name and a comment for the stage.

You can change the music on the save screen. Choose something that matches the mood of your stage.

And I’m happy that this is compatible with SD cards. You don’t have to worry about size, so make as many stages as you like.

Also, if you’ve finished registering someone as both a Wii Friend and a Smash friend, you’ll be able to send custom stages to each other.

Now, for those who hate putting effort into such things, we’ve also prepared something you can enjoy as well.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/gamemode/various/images/various10/various10_071029h-l.jpg

"Submit" ...?

That’s right! You can use your Wi-Fi connection to send stages you’ve made to Nintendo! (However, you can’t submit repeatedly. Maybe just once per day?)

And a stage selected from the entire daily collection will be sent from Nintendo to your Wii. A stage made by someone else will come to you over the Internet once per day!

DUN DUN DUNNNNNN! That’s the shocking truth. This means you’ll be able to experience a new stage every day—the flavor of the day, if you will. However, the plan is for that stage to vanish once one day has passed. It’s a once-in-a-lifetime encounter.

You can submit in both the Snapshots mode and the Stage Builder mode, allowing everyone to enjoy the creations of others. The fun of sharing is one of the ways that I wanted to take advantage of Wi-Fi for something other than pure battling.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/gamemode/various/images/various10/various10_071029i-l.jpg

Today’s stage has lots of traps...

This is our ideal current plan. We still don’t know the exact service period. And future tuning may result in changes to the spec.

But for now, please look forward to it!



MY COMMENTS:

Wow... this I was not expecting at all.... I am literally blown away. The replay value of this game has literally gone through the roof now... and it was already huge to begin with...

The thing that blows my mind even further is the fact that you can submit your creations to Nintendo and everyday they will send you a new stage to try out... Genius idea for this type of game.... and not to mention this will be the first game to actually let you use the damn SD cards.... FINALLY! (although sadly this might mean no USB hardrive announcement on the horizon).

Anyway....it should be damn fun to send your creations to a friend and battle them over Wi-Fi on you own personal stages....

and think about this....if there isn't that Final Destination-like Flat level (even though we all know there will be)...... well now you can make one...lol

oh... an I hope that it allows you to download a stage that has been uploaded by Nintendo if you happen to really like it... that seems like an obviously thing to do....but it wasn't brought up in his post.

[Generosity of God]

yeah definitely an awesome update today.

i'm looking forward to recreating alot of sceneries from various games.

and wondering what other people are going to come up with.

this game was going to have plenty of stages to choose from and now that number is possibly endless.

[Shoelace]

Yeah, I jumped out of my chair for this announcement. This game just keeps getting more and more and more and more replayablilty. I am so excited.

[Viper]

My foot hurts.

Because my jaw just hit it doing 90 mph.


The delay is becoming more worth it each week. I knew the game had an increase in what could be customized (which was a damn lot for SSBM already) but this? Wow.

SSBB: Now 99.9999% suck free.

[nayrk]

While I think this will be rather cool... my anticipation for this game dropped a ton last week. I think mostly just to the fact that the game is now *again* so far off...

[Shadow Voa]

What more needs to be said? Beware my levels.... that's all Im going to say.

[BananaBabeQT]

This is an awesome update. Although I'm not very creative so I don't know how many stages I'll build myself, getting a new one everyday from Nintendo is going to be pretty cool.

[IEatFriedPikmin]

That's an awewsome feature, no doubt. It will definitely increase the lasting appeal.

Online multiplayer is still holding this game back from its potential though. It's nice that you will be able to trade maps with friends... but receiving random ones? You only keep them for a day? I guess getting a random one is a nice surprise... but come on.

I am happy they added the feature. However they need to focus more on online.

[Zeep]

This is by far the most surprising update since the Dojo launched.

[Cofey]

I don't mind them being deleted every day. Think of how many you'd build up after only a month!

This is a great way to make sure this game is constantly changing and you always have something new to look forward to.

And anyway, if I really like one of the chosen levels, I'll probably just go into the editor and recreate it.

[Viper]

Online multiplayer is still holding this game back from its potential though.

What do you mean? Online multiplayer has already been announced.

[nayrk]

What do you mean? Online multiplayer has already been announced.

maybe he means lack of voice chat support. if that is the case... i agree.

[Hylian-Advocate]

^or her means that there is no ranked/tracked matches against random foes.....just friends......

I still think that is dumb....

oh.... IEFP

I still think that if there going to be sending you a new level every day..... doesn't that mean you basically have to download the map anyway..... I don't know...but it just seems like you could save the ones you like if you happen to come across a sweet one.....so you don't just have a day to play it.

[Zeep]

Remember when they announced the screenshot feature and there was an option blurred out?

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/gamemode/various/various07.html

it's been unblurred--you can also submit your screenshots to Nintendo, though it doesn't explain why you would want to.

[Viper]

Says you can send to friends too. I'm guessing that same send option is there for the level editor.

[Zeep]

Being able to send to friends was confirmed from the start in both posts...

[Phoenix]

Holy crap! That announcement made my pants wet.

With drool, of course. This is going to be such an awesome feature! All I hope is that the stage atmosphere isn't set to like one or two styles.

[OmniCloud]

Finally, a game to get a Wii for....

Not bad Ninty...

Toss a little LBP in Smash Brothers and you have a possible Game of the year contender...

Wii purchased Confirmed (again:duh:)--the day this sucker drops...

Is it just me, or is gaming finally good again?

The whole Xbox gaming, Ninty spitting out casual gaming, and PS3 spitting out zero gaming was really craptastic!!!

I think it's finally over!!!!

HOOORAY:cheers:

[Mirai]

Is it just me, or does it seem like they're just showing off now?

[Xer0]

Is it just me, or does it seem like they're just showing off now?

No, it isnt just you

[Viper]

Is it just me, or does it seem like they're just showing off now?
Kinda. Though I don't mind. So long as they keep making it better and better, raise that skirt....

[Xer0]

I dont mind if they keep on making it better and better as long as i get while im alive (yea yea, gross exageration). I want this game....like yesterday. Ive been playing SSBM nonstop imagining my Link is Sonic (he has a blue tunic after all...)

[Viper]

I think Nintendo has discovered the secret formula for 'win' and distilled it into an injectable serum that all employees must now be administered every 3 months.

They've also found a way to meld it with plastic and it now goes into their hardware products.

I here Shiggy's sweat was the breakthrough ingredient so he know does that Shiggy dance 24/7.

http://www.geekonstun.com/images/shigeru.gif

[Hylian-Advocate]

it's ok to show off when its warranted....

I mean.... I don't think there has ever been a fighting game with a level editor..... not that I cant think of....right Vipster....

its just not a genre that you'd typically think would have one...

the only thing that sucks about all this breagging is that it makes waiting for the game that much harder.

[Teh Roxor!]

I've wanted a stage creator since playing the first one on the N64! This is very good news.

[Viper]

Hylian, aside from Fighter Maker itself, I don't think so.

[Hylian-Advocate]

oh....I just thought of this....... I hope this also means that video data can also be saved to SD cards....

considering this announcement confirmed that created levels will be able to... I hop the same is true for movies!!!.... that way we can upload them to th net!

[OnBake Platinum]

Not if they are some weird format which I bet they will be.

[Viper]

Wii supports Movie JPEG which is often used over http by web cams. Firefox reads is natively and Quicktime can decode it as well.

[OnBake Platinum]

Movies might actually just be bare bones data that the system fills in the blanks on the fly just like halo 3.

[Teh Roxor!]

Movies might actually just be bare bones data that the system fills in the blanks on the fly just like halo 3.

That's what I was thinking, and I hope it is that way. Those would take up much less space and they would allow you to view the playback from different angles.

[SuperLuigiBros]

Holy shit this is fucking awesome news. Unlimited replay value! Melee, to me, was the perfect game. But this is so much more. A new level every single day is so awesome.

I remember Sakurai saying that there were heaps of people wanting him to do work for them, but the reason he chose to go with Smash Bros. is because someone told him a Smash Bros. not made by him wouldnt have a soul. Maybe this will be his last one and he's pulling out at all the stops and itll be the greatest thing of all time. It seems like after this the only thing theyll be able to do is add in more characters and levels and items. So far its got everything we could possibly want, and then some.

[Phoenix]

I mean.... I don't think there has ever been a fighting game with a level editor..... not that I cant think of....right Vipster....Well, most fighters don't have very interesting or dynamic stages, since they tend not to work quite like Smash Bros. does.

[Hylian-Advocate]

Very true...now that I thnk you put it that way....

although...why not make it so you can then record regular video from those in game videos.... so you could do both in a sense.

[Delirious]

Simply astounding. I have dreamed about a feature like this, but never thought it would actually happen. I didnt think it was possible for me to want this game any more, kudos go to you Nintendo.

[SuperLuigiBros]

Today's update is Classic. We all knew it was going to be in there, so hooray! Looks just as good as ever. And those coins are interesting... He says they're not used for shopping, does buying trophies count as shopping?

Hmm... Is the Subspace Emissary just Adventure Mode? I think it is... but I suppose they could be different things.

Oh wait, after checking the site the Subpsace Emissary is located under the Adventure Mode tab. w00t.

Anyway, Classic rocks.

[Delirious]

Nice, 2 huge updates in a row. Probably gonna be slow the rest of this week though.

[SuperLuigiBros]

^Yeh thats what i was thinking... But then any Smash update is a good update.

[Phoenix]

I'd hardly call this huge.

[Teh Roxor!]

Maybe you use the coins in a lottery machine just like in SSB:M.

[Delirious]

Yeah most likely something like that. I hope its more then just that though, like maybe you could use them online to buy things like level editor pieces or maybe new items or something. Guess thats just wishful thinking though, probably just for in game stuff. They could still expand on how you use them.

[SuperLuigiBros]

Buying level editor pieces would rock so hard. Unlocking trophies in Melee was incredibly satisfying for some reason... Unlocking things that actually do stuff in Brawl would be so cool. Either way, Im not fussed. As long as there are some things to unlock for ridiculously hard things that we wont get until 2010.

[Bsack]

These unlocks are kinda like achievements in my opinion and I thought they were a very cool addition in Melee. I had a lot of fun trying to figure out how exactly to get all the trophies, but I never got them all in Melee or at least I think I didn't...

[Hylian-Advocate]

heck yea.... I hope the money is used for more unlockables....

we already have three times as many unlockables...... considring there are trophies, stickers and music scores......

your idea of buying rare level editor parts is a great one...

I could also see alternate costumes.... and maybe even a realy expensive level or character.

[Phoenix]

Yeah, that would make the game's replay value so absurdly high, it would rival an MMORPG almost.

[Hylian-Advocate]

new stage looks fantastic.... it isn't too basic in terms of the same old three platforms....but it isn't over the top either.

where was that fish thing from again.... it looks familiar. but I cant discern where I remember it from.....

honestly though...how could that tiny little polar bear weigh down the ice berg when all four other characters don't...lol.... I think thats supposed to be the joke...

[Teh Roxor!]

I'm pretty sure that fish thing is from Balloon Fight.

[Delirious]

hey guys this is my 1st post ever using my wii! Im so im heaven right now.

Anyone know where I can get a good keyboard that works with the wii?

bot: Nice updzte todxy. its been an awesome week

[Zeep]

most generic USB keyboards should work.

[Phoenix]

If you have a Mac, those keyboards work - my friend uses his.

[Eidorian]

If you have a Mac, those keyboards work - my friend uses his.A USB keyboard is a USB keyboard.

There's nothing terribly special about an Apple keyboard.

[Phoenix]

I know, I'm just saying it's an example of a common USB keyboard.

[Delirious]

Ah cool then, Ill have to get me one of those. Sucks that I had to pay 500 points to get the internet channel. That could have gone towards a NES game. But whatever, Im just happy I have that bitch online now.

[bobo_ess]

^ it's a good way to get good at cn shooter on warioware on smooth moves

[Delirious]

What by getting a usb keyboard? How can I use that on a game?

[Viper]

Nothing for games right now, it's for the message system and web browser.

[Delirious]

Yeah thats what I though, dont know what bobo was talking about though.

Todays update is meh. Something everyone already knew, just confirmed now. Im glad the custom entrances are back though, as well as the 3..2..1 countdown.

[Zeep]

bob meant that using the internet browser made you really good at the can shooter because you get used to pointing a clicking precisely really fast.

[OnBake Platinum]

Happy Together by The Turtles should be a song in Brawl.

UvljN9ycqLg

[Xer0]

^Easily one of the best video game comercials ever

[SuperLuigiBros]

^^Easily the best commercial of anything, ever.

[Unspoken]

That commercial should be an unlockable in Brawl.

[Hylian-Advocate]

ohhhh....another orchestrated song!....nice....this time the fire Emblem song....

Lucent should be happy to see that the same choir in the theme song recorded the vocals again.

[Generosity of God]

is it strange if i smile from the fact that there will be vocals while fighting? having choir vocals just makes me think that fights will feel more epic.

actually i'm finding it kind of weird that a multiplayer-centric fighting franchise will be as epic as Twilight Princess and Mario Galaxy. i'm not complaining. i just didnt think Smash Bros could be so epic feeling.

anyhoo. i like the video they put up of Fox and Diddy. Fox is bad ass.

[SuperLuigiBros]

Yeh Fox was awesome. And it seems there will be a mix of orchestrated and midi songs. It would be cool if they did one orchestrated song per level and had 3 midi songs (as you can choose from 4 or something).

[version2.0]

Yeh Fox was awesome. And it seems there will be a mix of orchestrated and midi songs. It would be cool if they did one orchestrated song per level and had 3 midi songs (as you can choose from 4 or something).

More then four actually. If you look at the "My Music" page, one of the images is of the music for The Bridge of Eldin, and there is a arrow to scroll down but not up. Then for the image just below it, there is an arrow for up and down, showing that the arrows dissappear when there isn't an option in that direction. So, there is at least six options for delfino...

:thumbl:

[Phoenix]

I did not see Rayquaza coming. Does this mean it'll be a boss? That'd be pretty cool.

[Shadow Voa]

I'd be funny to fight him as the Pokemon trainer.

[Hisham]

Discard this post plz.

[Generosity of God]

OMG Gray Fox!!!!!....

is what i would say if he were playable. but he's just an assist trophy. still cool though.

[Hylian-Advocate]

still pretty neat to have another Metal Gear character in the game though....

I personally don't mind that hes not playable.... I don't think there should be a ton of characters from one non-Nintendo franchise.... rather....one from a larger variety of games.

[ninnin]

This just leaves room for a sonic AT!!

[Generosity of God]

Sonic AT will likely be Tales or Knuckles. other characters just arent popular enough to be appreciated as AT.

what i hope this hints at is non-Nintendo franchise items.

think about it. MG could provide magazines which distracts the character who picks it up leaving them open for a hit.

Sonic could provide golden rings which prevent you from taking damage.

cmon Sakurai tell us what other 3rd party franchises/characters will be in the game. we know there will be more. stop making us wait.

you know what i really like though? there are already 23 characters announced and they still have some from melee to return. if we add:
-Luigi
-Captain Falcon
-Ganondorf
-Falco
-a couple more pokemon
-another fire emblem character (hoping for one of the axe weilders)
-a few Nintendo newcomers (K.Rool, a Metroid Bounty Hunter, Wolf, Bowser Jr, an F-Zero racer, etc)
-a few more 3rd party newcomers (are Square-Enix and Capcom going to let Konami and SEGA have all the fun?)

we're looking at around 40 at least.

close to 50 if they either:
a) suprise us and put a whole heap of newcomers
b) add different versions of characters that arent just costume changes (eg Dr Mario isnt just a different costum for Mario.)

time will tell but i'm liking the prospect of having so many characters to choose from.

[Hylian-Advocate]

What.....where is todays update.... it always happens at.... well it use to be midnight Pacific time....but now after daylight savings it always at 11:00pm the night before.

hmm..... I guess there were a couple of times where they took an extra half an hour or more....

edit...nvm.... they were just 12 minutes late.

[Mirai]

Sonic AT will likely be Tales or Knuckles. other characters just arent popular enough to be appreciated as AT.

what i hope this hints at is non-Nintendo franchise items.

think about it. MG could provide magazines which distracts the character who picks it up leaving them open for a hit.

Sonic could provide golden rings which prevent you from taking damage.

cmon Sakurai tell us what other 3rd party franchises/characters will be in the game. we know there will be more. stop making us wait.

you know what i really like though? there are already 23 characters announced and they still have some from melee to return. if we add:
-Luigi
-Captain Falcon
-Ganondorf
-Falco
-a couple more pokemon
-another fire emblem character (hoping for one of the axe weilders)
-a few Nintendo newcomers (K.Rool, a Metroid Bounty Hunter, Wolf, Bowser Jr, an F-Zero racer, etc)
-a few more 3rd party newcomers (are Square-Enix and Capcom going to let Konami and SEGA have all the fun?)

we're looking at around 40 at least.

close to 50 if they either:
a) suprise us and put a whole heap of newcomers
b) add different versions of characters that arent just costume changes (eg Dr Mario isnt just a different costum for Mario.)

time will tell but i'm liking the prospect of having so many characters to choose from.

I think you're getting your hopes up a bit at 50. Even 40 is a bit of a stretch as a minimum.

And there have only been 22 characters announced, not 23...

Oh, and with Samurai Goroh an assist trophy, I wouldn't count on seeing another F-Zero racer appear as a playable character. I mean, if they don't include the guy with the sword and the history, why would they include someone else?

[Hylian-Advocate]

^well... I sure hope there is more than 30... becuase I want more unannounced characters that we don't know about that we can unlock in the game.....

I like hearing about all these new characters and all....but I hope there are still some hidden ones to unlock....thats part of the fun...you know what I mean?

[Generosity of God]

I think you're getting your hopes up a bit at 50. Even 40 is a bit of a stretch as a minimum.

And there have only been 22 characters announced, not 23...

Oh, and with Samurai Goroh an assist trophy, I wouldn't count on seeing another F-Zero racer appear as a playable character. I mean, if they don't include the guy with the sword and the history, why would they include someone else?

well yeah 22. i keep forgetting Zero Suit isnt actually a seperate character from Samus.

now firstly when i said around 40 i didnt mean exactly 40. more like 35-38.

i dont think 40 (give or take a few) is much of a stretch. we've got 22 announced.

some will likely return (captain falcon, falco, ganondorf, jigglypuff, luigi, Ness)

others will likely be replaced (marth/roy, mewtwo, pichu)

that brings us about 30.

then add in a few more Nintendo newcomers and a couple 3rd party characters and it's in that 35-38 mark i was talking about.

i said it could get close to 50 if they did what i said (one of which was "if Nintendo surprise us" meaning "i dont expect it but Nintendo may be generous". i didnt say they would or that i hoped they would.

i'd say the minimum number of character we'll get is around 35 while the very most (if Nintendo is generous and goes all out) is 45-50.

oh and even though Samurai Goro is an assist trophy i think they could still give us another character like Black Shadow if they want to continue bringing in an evil guy to fight opposite the franchise hero.

[SuperLuigiBros]

Lucas's move set is pretty cool. I always loved the freezie so being able to freeze is nice. I suspect Ill use this little fella for a while, but not as my main character.

[Phoenix]

I'm pretty sure Ness will not return, and I wouldn't count on Falco, Ganondorf and maybe Jigglypuff. We can never be too sure that they'll bring back some old characters.

[Mirai]

You don't think they're going to bring back one of the most popular characters in video game history?

Why wouldn't Ganondorf return?

And GoG, it is indeed possible that they could reach 40 to 50, but it was also possible with Melee. Sakurai has stated in the past that he struggled to reach 25 for Melee. It's not a matter of how many characters they could possibly make in to full characters, it's a matter of making meaningful characters.

For instance, there are just short of 500 Pokemon, at least one fifth would work as characters in Smash Bros, but it would saturate the game with one universe.

And it's not just a matter of making characters that aren't clones. It's a matter of making completely unique move sets. One thing about Melee is every special move is unique. There is no move that works exactly like another move. Let's just look at projectiles...

Fox - Rapid, weak laser
Falco - Slower laser with more knockback
Mario - Bouncing fireball
Luigi - Short range, slow, spinning fireball
Samus - Charge shot capable of being saved
Mewtwo - Charge shot with a random path

The list goes on. Every move works differently. Eventually they'll just be running out variations, and that's when the game gets a whole lot more boring in my oppinion.

Also, the more characters means the more likely we are to run into issues of balance. It also just plain takes time.

35 is a reasonable minimum (my minimum is 32, and I explained my reasoning for in an earlier post), you just should have said we'd have a minimum of 40 first.

[Cofey]

Yeah, based on today's update I'd say Ness is a goner.

And if he does finally decide to cut some old characters, I hope Pichu and Jigglypuff are next.

[Teh Roxor!]

I don't necessarily think Ness is going to be included, but I think today's update actually increases the odds of him being included. They focused on how Lucas differs from Ness, not how he will replace him.

If it were my project, I would not remove any characters. Even if a few were very similar, I don't think it would have any real negative impact.

[ninnin]

You guys think todays update was a hint for Ness being announced tomorrow?

Now I'm most likely going to be way off but I thought that would be an intresting way to approach todays update.

[Phoenix]

Either that or a hint that he will be cut. It can go both ways, really.

[Hylian-Advocate]

Meh... I wouldn't include ness....simply because they are still too similar for there to be a point.

[Zeep]

I'd say todays update was a hint that Ness is getting cut, if anything.

[Hylian-Advocate]

yea....thats what I was thinking he meant by 'hes been in smash until now'....

but I guess I can see how that can be interpreted in other ways.

but I still say he got the ax!

[SuperLuigiBros]

I dont think anyone from the original cast will ever be cut. Its tradition! But if anyone were to be cut I wouldnt really mind. We know it was play a little differently so even with the same characters they might feel different. Because of this, I suspect we'll all have to start anew and find a character that feels right.

As to what Sakurai said about Ness returning... The first thing I thought when he said "There’s a character named Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now" was that Ness will be cut. But then he goes on to say "But Lucas’s physical combat style is quite different." This leads me to believe that he wont be cut. I think perhaps the way he said it was lost in translation and doesnt actually mean anything.

[Phoenix]

" Now the bra smap appeared in the series "Ness" <BR> Character is, but it is RYUKA close.
PKを使う、同族ですしね。 PK use, and is family-owned.

しかし、体術はずいぶん違う。 But body art is quite different.
というか、同じ通常ワザはありません。 I mean, usually the same WAZA. "

Automatic translation doesn't really give much more insight on the original intent. -.-'

Can anyone who speaks real Japanese give what they think?

[Cofey]

The wording yesterday was:

"There’s a character named Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now"

That seems to suggest to me that he will not be reappearing. But if he does, than it's confirmation that the clones are back. Lucas' moves are somewhat different, but no more different than say Mario's fireballs and Dr. Mario's pills.

[OnBake Platinum]

So anyways, Norfair looks like a much improved version of Brinstar.

[SuperLuigiBros]

Yeh, that wave looks cool. And the fights for the safe zone should be pretty crazy. Its interesting how they changed the layout of the platforms. There used to be that big one at the top... I guess now there are two places to fight for when the lava rises.

[ninnin]

The wording yesterday was:

"There’s a character named Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now"

That seems to suggest to me that he will not be reappearing. But if he does, than it's confirmation that the clones are back. Lucas' moves are somewhat different, but no more different than say Mario's fireballs and Dr. Mario's pills.

I notice that when I read the site yesterday.

Well I rather have Ness cut then the return of clones since clones are a waste of space and should be replace by characters with a completely different moveset. I read that Lucas was suppose to take over the place on Ness anyway.

[Hisham]

People wanting an outragous amount of characters should remember that the more characters they put it, the more likely the game is to be unbalanced. I mean, games like these rely on balance and the fact that no characters are too overpowered. I mean Fox was pretty dominant in melee, but he could be beaten. With adding more and more characters, you get a chance of a character which is too good, and will probably be abused online. There should only be a maximum of 30 or 32 characters. Minimum should be some where around 25.

[Hylian-Advocate]

^ewwww to that..... more characters please....

they just need to spend more time balancing, that all....


oh...by the Way..... somehow the game was far enough along to get rated by the ESRB already....

it recieved a T for Teen.... for "Cartoon Violence, Crude Humor"

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/search.jsp?titleOrPublisher=Nintendo&searchType=publisher&rating=&ratingsCriteria=&platforms=&platformsCriteria=&javaScript=0&searchVersion=compact&content=&searchType=title&contentCriteria=&newSearch.x=33&newSearch.y=10


I wonder if this means its pretty much done and they are just adding more online features or something..... I guess it probably has to go in for a final review again if they make any changes..... at least you'd think.

[SuperLuigiBros]

I think its just polishing time. Remember months and months ago how Kojima said he played it and if they were to release it that day it would sell millions of copies? They probably could have released it without the delay, but they are taking it from 'best game ever' to 'gaming perfection (and also the best game ever)'.

[Hylian-Advocate]

I know.....but normally the ESRB rates games just bfore they announce its gone gold and off to production..... I wonder how they can review this games already....even though they are technically still working on it.... I just din't think that's how it worked.... I mean.....we know Nintendo wouldn't....but technically if this were somebody like rockstar...they could add a hot coffee mod afterwards and get away with it if their games were rated so early....

lol...wouldn't that be funny if a deranged almost laid off Nintendo employee did something like that with Brawl... Zelda, Princess Peach and Zero Suit Samus gone wild!!!!! hahahha

[Hisham]

^ewwww to that..... more characters please....

they just need to spend more time balancing, that all....

This is what causes delays. Now I for one don't care either way, delays = better game in the long run, but I bet you a lot of people would be angry. I suggested only 25 to 32 characters because of the time they have till the current release date, if they change it, you can up that character count.

Also, you guys seem to underestimate how hard it is to truely balance a game like this. Differences aside, you go pretty much the same way in balancing this game as you do a game like Street Fighter, or any other traditional fighting game. And in Street Fighter, they only time they got it pretty much perfect was in Street Fighter II: Hyper Fighting. And that is probably the best balanced fighter (including the Smash games) and it only had 12 characters.

Now take the last smash game, there were 26 characters (lets face it, Zelda was near useless, so she is considered seperate from Shiek) and there were distintive tier listings. Here is the most current tier listing from what I am aware of (keep in mind, with items, tiers are pretty much useless since everyone can jump to the top with a homerun bat and such):

Top Tier:
Fox
Falco

High Tier:
Sheik
Marth
Peach

Middle Tier:
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Doctor Mario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Link
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Roy
Young Link
Pikachu

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game and Watch
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo

Having such a wide raging tier listing is ususally a bad sign and if something like that happens in Brawl, I can assure you most people would only be playing with the top 10 characters. That is probably why I tend to shy to lower character selection. Less variables need to be taken into account, so individual matchups can be made to 50/50 rather than 70/30 for one character. It is more satisfying to me that a character I pick up initially will fare just as good as everyone else on the roster. Also, mastering multiple characters also becomes more satisfying because there is less chance for clones and the new characters play strategy is most likely going to be different. Like when people play with Roy in SSBM, they are playing more with traping the opponent and going for strikes, edge guarding, and spiking. Conversely, if you play with somebody like Sheik, you have more of a poking game, and then when the opponents percentage is high enough you go for a smash to kill them. With more characters, individual strategies like this become more universal, and then basically people only use characters who are better with the play style that they like.

Sorry bout the longwinded post, but low character count isn't always bad. It is usually a blessing in disguise.

[Phoenix]

Yes, that is why I don't want there being a ton of characters, and am fine with the delay. I don't want to not be able to play a character I'm a big fan of effectively because it turns out they suck (Yoshi comes to mind.) Anything that can balance it better is fine with me.

[Hylian-Advocate]

I understand what you're saying...but my point that I have been saying for a while is that I am sure there are plenty they just haven't revealed yet...... so it's not like they are just now adding more because of the delay.... they probably are doing exactly what you said....fine tuning everyone....

all I am saying is that I hope there is at least around 10 more than in Melee....

and honestly...for the most part.. I could beat anyone of my friends with any character..... inf fact...they would often choose for me....... it only really matters when you get into the really good player matches that uber balance really matters...

so basically I would like around 35 - 40..... Since there were 25 in Melee.... that leaves at least enough room for 8-10 additional Nintendo characters and 5-7 third party characters..... (although it would be fun to have a few more than 7 third party characters I guess..... I just don't want the game cluttered with thrid party characters...thats all.)

[Phoenix]

Personally, I'm fine with the current announced lineup. I would love to see additions like Krystal, Midna or a new Pokémon or two, or the return of Luigi, Falco or Ganondorf, but if it means not having well-tuned balance, it's not worth it, especially if it means the characters I like end up going Mewtwo or Bowser's way. Ideally, they'll include them (or at least some) and make a balanced game, and I'm sure they can, but I'd rather them mess up on one side rather than the other.

[Hisham]

I understand what you're saying...but my point that I have been saying for a while is that I am sure there are plenty they just haven't revealed yet...... so it's not like they are just now adding more because of the delay.... they probably are doing exactly what you said....fine tuning everyone....

all I am saying is that I hope there is at least around 10 more than in Melee....

and honestly...for the most part.. I could beat anyone of my friends with any character..... inf fact...they would often choose for me....... it only really matters when you get into the really good player matches that uber balance really matters...

so basically I would like around 35 - 40..... Since there were 25 in Melee.... that leaves at least enough room for 8-10 additional Nintendo characters and 5-7 third party characters..... (although it would be fun to have a few more than 7 third party characters I guess..... I just don't want the game cluttered with thrid party characters...thats all.)


True, but you are still underestimating balance issues that can arise from that many characters. 40 is a too much for any fighting game. Take Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 for example. It had like 50 characters, and it has some of the most abysmal excuses of balance, like if somebody picks Cable and you pick Akuma, your energy is going to be drained so quickly. And even if it is an expert player with Akuma, all you have to be is semi competent and you can beat them. I'm pretty sure in a game with 40 characters, it wouldn't be much better. And it is almost guarenteed that even with the most thorough testing, balance will still be an issue with that huge of a cast. The likely case is 2 or 3 characters (MetaKnight will probably be one of them from the looks of it) will be the top tiers, and everyone else will be scattered from a little less useful to utter crap.

And I take your point about beating your friends, but what happens when the game is online... I don't know about you, but playing a lot of different players rather than playing the top tiers all the time will make the game a lot more fun, regardless of character size.

Like I said, I think it should be 32 max, and even that is pushing it.

[Hylian-Advocate]

nah.... you see.... I think that the smash series' move sets for all characters have the same basic controls and ideas behind them.... just with slight differences..... I see major differences in games like Soul Calibur and Capcom vs SNK or somthing like that becuase the way all the characters are controlled are so different...its hard to describe..... sure in Smash Bros you have characters that are faster/slower and what not....but each of them have their basic attacks....their smash attacks in each direction.... and so forth...

sure melee was a bit unbalanced....but I think it was way more balanced than most fighting games.....and Brawl has had more dev time with a larger team most likely (from what I have researched/heard).... I think they can have upwards of 40 people and still make it fairly balanced.... inevitably..a few characters will rise as the favorites....thats unavoidable..... so I say....if you have the extra time to tweak all the characters strengths and weaknesses.....which it seems they do now considering the delay..... go ahead and add more characters. (which I personally think they already have and are just saving them for secret unlockable ones)

honestly though.. I think 40 may be a little hopeful.....but I wouldn't argue against having that many if it were up to me.

anyway....
I completely understand your point about it being hard to balance a lot of characters..... but it can be done....and a team like Sakurai's definitely seems capable of doing so....

I think you're underestimating them...heheh.


anyway.... IGN just posted an article and it seems the writer agrees with me that Cloud would be the most epic third party character in Brawl bar none....

http://wii.ign.com/articles/834/834174p1.html

and I didn't even know about his slim ties to a Nintendo game via a cameo appearance in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories on the GBA....

he gets my vote as most wanted Square-Enix character.....

and just think how crazy the Japanese would go for the game then....

[Delirious]

I just had a crazy idea im gonna throw out their real quick, wouldnt it be cool if they added a mortal kombat character into the mix? Its a long shot, but I would shit a brick made of pure happiness if this were to happen. I dont care what character, hell Id even like to see an assist trophy of some sort if not a playable.

[Mirai]

^ewwww to that..... more characters please....

they just need to spend more time balancing, that all....


oh...by the Way..... somehow the game was far enough along to get rated by the ESRB already....

it recieved a T for Teen.... for "Cartoon Violence, Crude Humor"

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/search.jsp?titleOrPublisher=Nintendo&searchType=publisher&rating=&ratingsCriteria=&platforms=&platformsCriteria=&javaScript=0&searchVersion=compact&content=&searchType=title&contentCriteria=&newSearch.x=33&newSearch.y=10


I wonder if this means its pretty much done and they are just adding more online features or something..... I guess it probably has to go in for a final review again if they make any changes..... at least you'd think.

If I remember correctly, games have to be finished to get rated by the ESRB...

[Hylian-Advocate]

^ I know....that's whats making me worried a bit....

you don't think they would delay the game just to spread the schedule of games out would they....

n....

nahhhh..... they wouldn't do that... would they?....

nah... I personally think they've got to be doing more work on it still ....that would just be dumb otherwise.

EDIT:

ahhaaa!.... they don't actually have to be finished with it to get a rating...
from the ESRB site:
I highlighted parts that basically say it doesn't actually have to be finished to get a rating...at least an initial rating.

Ratings Process

Prior to a game being released to the public, game publishers submit responses to a detailed written ESRB questionnaire (often supplementing such responses with lyric sheets, scripts, etc.), specifying exactly what pertinent content (as defined by ESRB) will be in the game. Along with the written submission materials, publishers must provide a videotape or DVD which captures all pertinent content, including the most extreme instances, across all relevant categories including but not limited to violence, language, sex, controlled substances and gambling. Pertinent content that is not playable (i.e., "locked out"), but will exist in the game code on the final game disc, must also be disclosed.

Once the submission is checked by ESRB for completeness, which may also involve ESRB staff members playing a beta or alpha version of the game, the video footage is reviewed by at least three specially trained game raters. ESRB raters must be adults and typically have experience with children, whether through prior work experience, education or by being parents or caregivers themselves.

Upon reviewing the video or DVD of all pertinent content in a game, each rater recommends an appropriate rating category and content descriptors. However, this initial recommendation is merely intended as a starting point from which the raters will collectively deliberate about what rating should be assigned to the game. During deliberation, submissions for similar games previously rated by ESRB may be reviewed so raters can take into account parity and precedent for the product being evaluated. Raters will then further discuss the game until they reach consensus on a final recommendation. ESRB staff will review the final rating recommendation and rater feedback, conduct a parity examination where appropriate to maintain consistency in rating assignments, and issue a certificate with the official rating assignment to the game's publisher. The publisher may either accept the rating as final or revise the game's content and resubmit the game to the ESRB, at which time the process starts anew. Publishers also have the ability to appeal an ESRB rating assignment to an Appeals Board made up of publishers, retailers and other professionals.

When the game is ready for release to the public, publishers send copies of the final product to the ESRB. The game packaging is reviewed to make sure the rating information is displayed accurately and in accordance with ESRB requirements. Additionally, ESRB staff, including raters (time-permitting), play the final version of both hand-picked and randomly selected games to verify that all the materials provided by the game's publisher during the rating process were accurate and complete.

[Ch1cago88]

Personally, I'm fine with the current announced lineup. I would love to see additions like Krystal, Midna or a new Pokémon or two.

Oh god.....spare me the pain. Anything but another pokemon...

[Phoenix]

Oh god.....spare me the pain. Anything but another pokemon...No one says you have to play as it. Anything's better than Pichu, I'm sure we can at least agree on that?

Also, I'm pretty sure Cloud is a no. FFVI is the most likely source (yay!) for Square-Enix characters if I had to say. One of them and a Soul Calibur character would make my day.

[Hisham]

nah.... you see.... I think that the smash series' move sets for all characters have the same basic controls and ideas behind them.... just with slight differences..... I see major differences in games like Soul Calibur and Capcom vs SNK or somthing like that becuase the way all the characters are controlled are so different...its hard to describe..... sure in Smash Bros you have characters that are faster/slower and what not....but each of them have their basic attacks....their smash attacks in each direction.... and so forth...

sure melee was a bit unbalanced....but I think it was way more balanced than most fighting games.....and Brawl has had more dev time with a larger team most likely (from what I have researched/heard).... I think they can have upwards of 40 people and still make it fairly balanced.... inevitably..a few characters will rise as the favorites....thats unavoidable..... so I say....if you have the extra time to tweak all the characters strengths and weaknesses.....which it seems they do now considering the delay..... go ahead and add more characters. (which I personally think they already have and are just saving them for secret unlockable ones)

honestly though.. I think 40 may be a little hopeful.....but I wouldn't argue against having that many if it were up to me.

anyway....
I completely understand your point about it being hard to balance a lot of characters..... but it can be done....and a team like Sakurai's definitely seems capable of doing so....

I think you're underestimating them...heheh.

Execution of moves doesn't excuse differences within the gameplay of characters. Not all characters would play a fully offensive game, even though the moves are all pulled off the same. I'm pretty sure in traditional 2D fighters, a majority of the cast have a down to foward move, a down to back move, and an anti air move yet they still play different enough. Smash is no exception to this rule even though it is the oddball fighter (not taking anything away from it).

And nah, Melee wasn't really way more balanced than most fighters... It is about as unbalanced as a modern day 2D fighter. Guilty Gear XX: Accent Core, now that is a fighter which is balanced better than most modern day fighters.

No one says you have to play as it. Anything's better than Pichu, I'm sure we can at least agree on that?

Also, I'm pretty sure Cloud is a no. FFVI is the most likely source (yay!) for Square-Enix characters if I had to say. One of them and a Soul Calibur character would make my day.

Doubt they would lend an SC character, but if they do, it would be awesome to have Mitsurugi. :D

[Phoenix]

Really? After Nintendo lent Link?

[bobo_ess]

marth...

[Shadow Voa]

^ Marth and Crono nuff said.

[Hylian-Advocate]

Phoenix... I still wouldn't rule out the possibility of Cloud... it's definitely not the most likely choice..... but I bet you that it would have at least also crossed Nintendo's mind..... man I still think it would be so damn wicked!..... anyway.... I personally think that a Chrystal Chronicles character is the most likely considering they are making one for the Wii....and Wii-Ware...and there was one for the cube....

but I still want cloud... *pouts until my demand is met*

and I still don't agree with you Hish... even with my really good friends....we could still beat each other with random character.... especially with items on... I think most people discount that because the hardcore typically play without them... but that alright.... we can agree to disagree slightly.

[Hisham]

Really? After Nintendo lent Link?

Ahh, I didn't say Namco wouldn't lend a character, I just think it wouldn't be a SC character. Perhaps Dig Dug or Pacman.

and I still don't agree with you Hish... even with my really good friends....we could still beat each other with random character.... especially with items on... I think most people discount that because the hardcore typically play without them... but that alright.... we can agree to disagree slightly

Items change everything. Like I said orginally, I am talking with items off. But yeah, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[ninnin]

I keep reading about the 150th update. It was suppose to be today but I've read that the 150th update was today in the US but was 149th worldwide today (something about the delay counting as an update in the US). So I guess tomorrow is the true 150. If it's anything special I'm think Mewtwo coming back. After all we haven't had a vet. in awhile and he is the 150th pokemon. Just my thought.

[Cofey]

^ewwww to that..... more characters please....

they just need to spend more time balancing, that all....


oh...by the Way..... somehow the game was far enough along to get rated by the ESRB already....

it recieved a T for Teen.... for "Cartoon Violence, Crude Humor"

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/search.jsp?titleOrPublisher=Nintendo&searchType=publisher&rating=&ratingsCriteria=&platforms=&platformsCriteria=&javaScript=0&searchVersion=compact&content=&searchType=title&contentCriteria=&newSearch.x=33&newSearch.y=10


I wonder if this means its pretty much done and they are just adding more online features or something..... I guess it probably has to go in for a final review again if they make any changes..... at least you'd think.
From what I've heard, Nintendo deliberately delayed the game until February so they can keep sales up in the first quarter of '08. It's plain and simple: they've got Mario to be their powerhouse for Christmas, and they want to start off next year with a bang. That's the whole reason.

And this is coming straight from Nintendo reps I know through GameStop.

It might not necessarily be true but I believe it.

[Delirious]

Well that sux 2 hear. The game better be godly for all this xtra waiting were having 2 do.

[Shadow Voa]

^ Cant happen, it was already beyond godly before...

[Mirai]

^ I know....that's whats making me worried a bit....

you don't think they would delay the game just to spread the schedule of games out would they....

n....

nahhhh..... they wouldn't do that... would they?....

nah... I personally think they've got to be doing more work on it still ....that would just be dumb otherwise.

EDIT:

ahhaaa!.... they don't actually have to be finished with it to get a rating...
from the ESRB site:
I highlighted parts that basically say it doesn't actually have to be finished to get a rating...at least an initial rating.

Ratings Process

Prior to a game being released to the public, game publishers submit responses to a detailed written ESRB questionnaire (often supplementing such responses with lyric sheets, scripts, etc.), specifying exactly what pertinent content (as defined by ESRB) will be in the game. Along with the written submission materials, publishers must provide a videotape or DVD which captures all pertinent content, including the most extreme instances, across all relevant categories including but not limited to violence, language, sex, controlled substances and gambling. Pertinent content that is not playable (i.e., "locked out"), but will exist in the game code on the final game disc, must also be disclosed.

Once the submission is checked by ESRB for completeness, which may also involve ESRB staff members playing a beta or alpha version of the game, the video footage is reviewed by at least three specially trained game raters. ESRB raters must be adults and typically have experience with children, whether through prior work experience, education or by being parents or caregivers themselves.

Upon reviewing the video or DVD of all pertinent content in a game, each rater recommends an appropriate rating category and content descriptors. However, this initial recommendation is merely intended as a starting point from which the raters will collectively deliberate about what rating should be assigned to the game. During deliberation, submissions for similar games previously rated by ESRB may be reviewed so raters can take into account parity and precedent for the product being evaluated. Raters will then further discuss the game until they reach consensus on a final recommendation. ESRB staff will review the final rating recommendation and rater feedback, conduct a parity examination where appropriate to maintain consistency in rating assignments, and issue a certificate with the official rating assignment to the game's publisher. The publisher may either accept the rating as final or revise the game's content and resubmit the game to the ESRB, at which time the process starts anew. Publishers also have the ability to appeal an ESRB rating assignment to an Appeals Board made up of publishers, retailers and other professionals.

When the game is ready for release to the public, publishers send copies of the final product to the ESRB. The game packaging is reviewed to make sure the rating information is displayed accurately and in accordance with ESRB requirements. Additionally, ESRB staff, including raters (time-permitting), play the final version of both hand-picked and randomly selected games to verify that all the materials provided by the game's publisher during the rating process were accurate and complete.

I guess this means the content is finalised, and they're just working out the kinks in the programming.

[Colin™]

I keep reading about the 150th update. It was suppose to be today but I've read that the 150th update was today in the US but was 149th worldwide today (something about the delay counting as an update in the US). So I guess tomorrow is the true 150. If it's anything special I'm think Mewtwo coming back. After all we haven't had a vet. in awhile and he is the 150th pokemon. Just my thought.

Its unbelievable the kind of patterns those smash bros fans try to find in those updates.

that ssbb board at gamefaqs is the greatest example of human boredom/desperation on the net.

[ninnin]

Its unbelievable the kind of patterns those smash bros fans try to find in those updates.

that ssbb board at gamefaqs is the greatest example of human boredom/desperation on the net.

Yep, I know what you mean. But if they are right about every 25 updates being awesome updates, then tomorrow should be a good one. Lets hope because we haven't seen any in awhile.

[Hylian-Advocate]

I guess this means the content is finalised, and they're just working out the kinks in the programming.

Nah...... it clearly says that they just end a preliminary version of it.... and that that version has to show the most extreme cases of everything....


and then before it's released......they show it again in final form and the tester pick random stuff to see if it still complies to what they previously rated it....



and Cofey... I don't think that's the case....

I do think they delayed because of the reasons you said.....but also to make it a better game at the same time.... there is no way they would puch it back three months and not do anything with that time...

again.... I turn to Metroid Prime Hunters as an example...it was the same situation and they used the time to add multiplayer.... that is a more extreme example because at that point in time it didn't have multiplayer at all....and Brawl does....but I think online multiplayer especially is one thing that they are using this delay for....along with tightening everything else up too.

[Mirai]

The content still has to be finalised. What's the point of rating it if they can just throw in what they want afterward anyway?

"Can you drop your game by to be rated sometime?"

"Hmmm... Yeah, I think we can squeeze you in next week. That'll give us some more time to write that sex scene we haven't put in yet."

"Alright. See you then."

[koten]

I keep reading about the 150th update. It was suppose to be today but I've read that the 150th update was today in the US but was 149th worldwide today (something about the delay counting as an update in the US). So I guess tomorrow is the true 150. If it's anything special I'm think Mewtwo coming back. After all we haven't had a vet. in awhile and he is the 150th pokemon. Just my thought.And the update was... taunts. So much for the reliability of patterns.

[Mirai]

Patterns are hella reliable, that's why they're patterns.

There just has to actually be a pattern for that to work.

[SuperLuigiBros]

Taunts are pretty cool.

Maybe because of the delay, they had to start to spread the better updates out.

[Hylian-Advocate]

lol.... you know... I was thinking about that when they announced the delay....

the guys in charge of updating it everyday was probably pissed beyond belief...

"damn... how am I supposed to stretch this out for another two months."

I love the updates, but sometimes I wish they wouldn't happen so often....because some of them are a bit anticlimactic....and it kinda spoils the little fun intricacies that you experience on your own.... but who am I kidding...I will still be tuned in every night at 11pm until the day it launches.

[SuperLuigiBros]

You guys have to wait till 11pm? That sucks. We get it at 6.30pm.

[OnBake Platinum]

It used to be midnight for me. 3 AM for Teh Roxor and others.

[ninnin]

And the update was... taunts. So much for the reliability of patterns.

Yeah that's what I said this morning.

I read someone's theory about todays update that seem intresting. Today was update 150, there are 3 taunts per character. If you do the math (according to this guy) you will have 50 characters in the game. I have to admit it seem unique but highly unlikely.

[Zeep]

When it started it was always at midnight PST, which made sense since that's where NOA's HQ is.

[Phoenix]

I don't even know what time it updates for me. I'm sleeping when it does; I just check it in the morning before school.

[Cofey]

There really hasn't been a great update in a while. I'm getting anxious....

[Generosity of God]

well todays updates are:

Meta Knight's special moves again but with more explanation.

and

a song called "Meta Knight's Revenge"

i like the song. a jazzed up version of an old song? sounds good to me.

[Hylian-Advocate]

good song.... especially for midi.....

I still cant get over how good the orchestrated ones are though...... the Metal Gear one is heavenly.

[Mirai]

It updates at 5 in the afternoon here. Lucky to be in Japan's time zone I guess...

[Hylian-Advocate]

honestly...today's update is actually pretty cool....

I used to set up matches of all computer players and bet on who would win with my friends/cousins..... yea...we were cool like that.

So this actually makes it legit betting......*shock and awe..... Nintendo promotes gambling*

and its not just the computers...but real people over net battles.

+rep for anyone that was as cool as me and made all CPU battles and bet on them with friends!

[Phoenix]

We did that on the forum I used to post at.

[Ch1cago88]

A loooonnnnnggg time ago, like the first year when Melee came out I gave 99 stock to all 4 the cpu fighters just to see who would win. Mario did.

[Delirious]

Seems like a pretty good update, but would be cooler if they kept peoples names in there. That way you guys would be able to tell it was me whipping my brothers ass all over the place. There could be ways of identifying yourself though I guess, like only wearing a certain costume, and taunting a certain way before the match starts, etc.

[Phoenix]

There have been some pretty weak updates as of late, and we haven't had a character announced for almost a month. I think something good is coming any day now.

[Mirai]

Well, there's a good chance we'll only see one or two more characters announced before February. If this is anything like the Melee updates, we haven't seen any of the unlockable characters yet...

(Most likely excluding Snake and Sonic however, as Sakurai has stated they will most likely be hidden anyway.)

[Delirious]

I say the count might get to around 35 or so, I hope it does too. There are still some classics I wanna come back more than anything.

[Hylian-Advocate]

Well, there's a good chance we'll only see one or two more characters announced before February. If this is anything like the Melee updates, we haven't seen any of the unlockable characters yet...

(Most likely excluding Snake and Sonic however, as Sakurai has stated they will most likely be hidden anyway.)

Melee updates?

I guess I wasn't as into the online crowd back before Melee came out.....so I don't know what those were.....

but I agree...... I don't think we'll be seeing too any more characters..... I have said many times in this thread that I think he's showing almost too much already..... we need more secret unlockables..... so I hope....as much as I like getting excited by the amazing updates like the level editor and such, that their really isn't that many uber updates from here on out.

[Phoenix]

"Master Chief is in Brawl. Oh, also, Nintendo now owns Microsoft."

[Cofey]

^On a somewhat related sidenote, one of the manager's in my district got like seven people to reserve "Imagine: Master Chef" on DS by telling them it was called "Imagine: Master Chief." It was hilarious. I don't think any one of them has come in for the game yet, but I don't want to be there when they do.

[SuperLuigiBros]

I was thinking the other day that Master Chief could have been included had Halo DS been granted release.

[Phoenix]

It'd be hard to work with