Which browser?

[Silent Warrior]

Ok so which browser do you use? I use Opera as my default.

[Garfunkel]

I use Firefox as my primary browser, konquerer as my secondary browser and opera as my third browser.

hilariously enough i probably use LYNX or LINKS more then opera, because console-browsing.

[masteratt]

FireFox- Great community, lots of add-ons make it the best.

Is it perfect to me?
No because sometimes it's laggy and it crashes now and then but the "Restore last session" feature makes you care less about the crashes.

[Garfunkel]

HAHA take a look at these:

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/2171/screenshot1mx7.th.png (http://img361.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot1mx7.png)
http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/5193/screenshot2my0.th.png (http://img361.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot2my0.png)
http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/4193/screenshot3sb2.th.png (http://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot3sb2.png)
http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/9897/screenshot4sv0.th.png (http://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot4sv0.png)

As you can clearly see, LINKS is a very very good looking browser.

[OnBake Platinum]

I've used firefox way before it became popular.

[Viper]

Garf I imagine that sucker must load things pretty quickly.



Firefox is default with Opera as back up. FF replaces entire programs on my computer. The navigation and customization abilities blow everything else away and things load as fast or faster than most other browsers even with 2 dozen plug ins going. Only drawback for me is it can have memory leaks.

I was a Netscape fan before FF came out and it was a simple transfer to me.

[Garfunkel]

it loads unbelievably fast! No CSS, no images, no movies (but you can download stuff with it), no AJAX, no flash, no wait, no worries!

[Phoenix]

*points at signature*

I believe Firefox was used by 3% of users when I first jumped aboard, so I'm not entirely a bandwagon jumper.

[Hisham]

Opera.

Manily because I hate the memory leaks that Firefox has.

[BananaBabeQT]

I use Firefox although I haven't really taken advantage of all the add-ons and stuff. I was looking into trying Opera but I don't know too much about it.

Why do those who use Opera instead of Firefox do so? Is it worth trying?

[Teh Roxor!]

I've used firefox way before it became popular.
You were a Firebird user!

[Viper]

I used it before it was called Firefox. Netscape navigator.

[scarecrow]

My mom used that. But now she won't use Firefox and only uses Internet Explorer. I don't get it.

[Khaos]

I use Opera. It's lean and mean and packs in alot of advanced features, even if you can't see them.

BananaBabe, if you don't use extensions much, then Opera is the better choice, hands down. It uses less memory and renders pages much faster.

I have only one website that fails to work in Opera. For this site, I use Firefox.

The only reason a site doesn't work in Opera would be because it does not adhere to web standards. Firefox bends the rules with web standards when processing pages, allowing their interpretation of non standard code to still run. Opera does not.

[Viper]

I thought that was IE? MS created IE with special rendering codes outside the HTML standard and since IE became the default browser for so many programmers were taking advantage of the extra code while other browsers couldn't.

[scarecrow]

I think he's talking about coding errors, and not like the black and white to color codes or the blur over pictures codes that internet explorer and myspace love so much.

[Lucent Beam]

I use Camino.
Mozilla's optimized-for-Mac's browser.

[OnBake Platinum]

IE is the one that bends the rules. Gecko is the most standards complaint rendering engine out there.

[Khaos]

I thought that was IE? MS created IE with special rendering codes outside the HTML standard and since IE became the default browser for so many programmers were taking advantage of the extra code while other browsers couldn't.

I'm just saying that if there is non standard code, Firefox will still try to interpret it, whereas Opera ignores non-standard code. It's both good and bad, if you think about it.

Mozilla also has its CSS extensions (http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Mozilla_CSS_Extensions). They aren't an example of above, but I've seen some sites use them. This is a problem because Opera can't interpret the code and sometimes a CSS document is set up so that it must exaluate x property to continue parsing the rest of the CSS (for example).

I just don't like adding stuff on in addition to web standards. Like IE's filters and Mozilla's extensions.

[XboxEvolved]

First off Opera sucks and it isn't 1997 anymore..when it was good. Firefox is nice and stable, but it can slow things down depending on the user, I hear it can actually be slower than IE. IE is interesting in that it is obviously the most compatible on the internet, and because of that it can go the fastest, but I use Safari.

You need to have a selection for Safari, especially because 1-it had more of the browser market than Opera even before it just went into beta on Windows (get it at www.apple.com) and technically speaking it is 2x faster than IE...on Windows.

So let me see if you understand this...a browser made for Mac..works just as good on Windows and is faster than IE. The only BAD thing I hear is it has some security issues but it is also still just in beta. I honestly believe that within a year or two, it will outdo Firefox.

[Khaos]

You could atleast explain why a product 'sucks'.

I recommend both Firefox and Opera, depending on your needs/usage. Safari is not out for Linux, so that won't bode well in future years.

[Carlos]

FireFox is all the rage for me. I've been using it since the later days of the 1.5 version.

John's right when it comes to Opera. It fucking sucks. I can't stand it that much.

IE? What's Internet Explorer?

I like what I saw with Safari when I was in college, I'll get it when the browser gets stable.

[Viper]

Maybe my Internet connection makes little difference en each browser but I saw zero speed increase with Safari and I have 2 dozen FF extensions running too.


Then again if this is something that is tabulated in the millisecond range, it's pointless to compare anyway.

[Phoenix]

Ouch... lots of IE hate here. Is it really that obsolete, or is there a whole "indie" thing going on here?

Not like I mind, I am everything but an IE user.

[Viper]

Obsolete and unsafe.

[OmniCloud]

Firefox all the way...

After I installed Ubuntu, it was the pre-installed browser (I think I downloaded it b4 probably after Garf told me about it though) so I just never used anything else. Great add-ons and themes that matches my desktop.

Good stuff, also, Firefox still isn't that popular, so the whole jumping on because it's popular thing is kinda subjective. It's really not known everywhere yet, though it is growing, just like Linux;)

[PSXBatou]

Use Safari, its on Windows and OS X now, so there is no excuse not to use the best browser available.

http://apple.com/safari

[Viper]

Use Safari, its on Windows and OS X now, so there is no excuse not to use the best browser available.

http://apple.com/safari

http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=74382

Actually, we've been slamming the hell out of it....well most of us.

[Khaos]

IE is really that bad. It is the last to implement new features, and has a horrible track record with security. Which is bad, since most people use it.

The two people who say Opera sucks have not provided reasons, I see.

[koten]

I use IE.

Firefox seems to crash on every single page I go to, so I don't bother with it.

Don't try and convert me, you will fail.

[GreyKnoll]

^ Trap your insolent mouth and down the punch with the flock~!

[XboxEvolved]

Well last time I used Opera it was cluttered, slow, and it liked to download itself in places it shouldn't have had.

Safari is not out for Linux, so that won't bode well in future years.

Yeah that whole 10 people that use Linux will be the death of Safari, just like it was of IE (which probably has at least 80% of the browser industry).

Also I glanced at the forum, and from what I understand you guys all admit that Firefox isn't perfect in the fact that you have to use plug-ins to get it to even do what you want it to. If you like it or not though, chances are Safari will at least compete against FIrefox very well, especially if they pack it in with every iPod and iTune download.

[Garfunkel]

I used it before it was called Firefox. Netscape navigator.

I started using Firefox when it was at version 1.0. Before that i used (and i'm rather ashamed to admit it) IE 6 *quakes*. I just stumbled on it one day, tried it and thought, well god damn! That was about the same time i became interested in computers.

I use Opera. It's lean and mean and packs in alot of advanced features, even if you can't see them.

BananaBabe, if you don't use extensions much, then Opera is the better choice, hands down. It uses less memory and renders pages much faster.

I have only one website that fails to work in Opera. For this site, I use Firefox.

The only reason a site doesn't work in Opera would be because it does not adhere to web standards. Firefox bends the rules with web standards when processing pages, allowing their interpretation of non standard code to still run. Opera does not.

Opera is a very good browser, i agree with you in that it is the better browser if you don't plan to use extensions, however, i cannot find my way around it's UI! i find it confusing and cumbersome to navigate around, and the download manager is annoying, but whatever floats yer boat :)

I thought that was IE? MS created IE with special rendering codes outside the HTML standard and since IE became the default browser for so many programmers were taking advantage of the extra code while other browsers couldn't.

Correct. (as always). Microsoft used to have the market share and could abuse standards like that, now IE is a web designers worst nightmare.

IE is the one that bends the rules. Gecko is the most standards complaint rendering engine out there.

Wrong, KHTML (konquerer's engine, which is an open source engine from the KDE guys. Which apple kind of stole for use in safari, and has not done anything in return...) Has a slight edge over gecko, but gecko is still sensational and has advantages in other areas.

First off Opera sucks and it isn't 1997 anymore..when it was good. Firefox is nice and stable, but it can slow things down depending on the user, I hear it can actually be slower than IE.


Tosh.

IE is interesting in that it is obviously the most compatible on the internet, and because of that it can go the fastest, but I use Safari.


ooooh, so very wrong, IE is the worst offender when it comes to standards compatibility, in fact, most of it's engine completely ignores web standards and basically creates its own. And i have no idea where you got the speed comment from, IE is the slowest browser you could possibly find.


You need to have a selection for Safari, especially because 1-it had more of the browser market than Opera even before it just went into beta on Windows (get it at www.apple.com) and technically speaking it is 2x faster than IE...on Windows.


Not 2x faster always, only on a very select few functions, also there are too many variables to make a blanket statement like that, the pages could be cached, cookies, server status, user activity, distance from servers accessed, OS used, et cetera.

But all in all, safari is much faster then IE.

You could atleast explain why a product 'sucks'.

I recommend both Firefox and Opera, depending on your needs/usage. Safari is not out for Linux, so that won't bode well in future years.

Agreed, depending on the need, opera or firefox can be more practical then one another.

Ouch... lots of IE hate here. Is it really that obsolete, or is there a whole "indie" thing going on here?

Not like I mind, I am everything but an IE user.

It's not just obsolete, but unsafe, not customizable, not web standard compliant, slow, ugly, lack of features, buggy, not cross platform... It's...just...CRAP! there is no reason on earth a sane and technically minded person should ever use IE.

Firefox all the way...

After I installed Ubuntu, it was the pre-installed browser (I think I downloaded it b4 probably after Garf told me about it though) so I just never used anything else. Great add-ons and themes that matches my desktop.

Good stuff, also, Firefox still isn't that popular, so the whole jumping on because it's popular thing is kinda subjective. It's really not known everywhere yet, though it is growing, just like Linux;)

Glad you like it :) Firefox is becoming very popular, globally around 15-20% and rising, very good considering the monopoly Microsoft had only a few years ago. In Germany it is the highest in the world, more then 30%.

Use Safari, its on Windows and OS X now, so there is no excuse not to use the best browser available.

http://apple.com/safari

Well, I use Linux, it failed to install under WINE, so there you go, an excuse.

IE is really that bad. It is the last to implement new features, and has a horrible track record with security. Which is bad, since most people use it.

The two people who say Opera sucks have not provided reasons, I see.

Agreed, as i said, there is no reason anyone should ever use the trash that is IE.

Well last time I used Opera it was cluttered, slow, and it liked to download itself in places it shouldn't have had.


hmm... "last time" eh? maybe you should give it another go? it has changed considerably since a few years back. Don't judge something because of past experience.


Yeah that whole 10 people that use Linux will be the death of Safari, just like it was of IE (which probably has at least 80% of the browser industry).


oooooh i wish you didn't say that :stirpot:

You do know that the engine behind safari comes from an open source browser on the Linux platform? I bet you didn't know that did you? Please read up a bit about konquerer and KHTML and kjs before posting something as silly as that.

Also, most web designers deploy their creations on a Linux server. Linux owns the market for servers and has only recently embarked on the desktop.


Also I glanced at the forum, and from what I understand you guys all admit that Firefox isn't perfect in the fact that you have to use plug-ins to get it to even do what you want it to. If you like it or not though, chances are Safari will at least compete against FIrefox very well, especially if they pack it in with every iPod and iTune download.

What??? Um....read the thread, nobody has said it is a crappy browser and they cannot use it without extensions.... It is a perfectly capable browser without extensions. That is exactly why the created extensions, so that users with specific needs could expand the browser adding ADDED features that others may not want. What you don't like firefox because it is customizable?

And it's not such a good thing that apple bundle their itunes and ipod software with safari. That is basically bloatware and adware.

[scarecrow]

And it's not such a good thing that apple bundle their itunes and ipod software with safari. That is basically bloatware and adware.
It's Quicktime. And you're not required to install it.

[Khaos]

"Future years", XboxEvolved. The market share of Linux just keeps growing and growing, and at a very decent rate too.

As all too many people say: "Linux is the future; jump in!"

[Garfunkel]

Right, but it certainly isn't a good thing, If people want quicktime, they will get quicktime. It just ads to a download quota.

EDIT: khaos, good post, i forgot to point that out, check out this thread for example, there are several people here in this thread alone that use linux. (one is a personal convert (hehehe)).

Linux will simply spread from the more technical users that have known about linux/*NIX for years on mainframes/servers/workstations/supercomputers, it will slowly spread to their families, and their friends until it is quite healthy on the desktop as well as it's already dominant position elsewhere.

[scarecrow]

Yeah but you'd have to be an idiot who can't read because it clearly says Safari + Quicktime on what you're selecting to download. Not after you've downloaded it.

[Garfunkel]

that's totally beside the point.

but anyway, that is only a minor complaint of mine.

[XboxEvolved]

What I mean is IE can process sloppy code a lot easier than other browsers, in Safari and Firefox I cam get errors on a sloppy coded page, but wont in IE.

Also why the hell would I use Opera when I have Safari? If I didn't have Safari I would be using Firefox, both are better than Opera so give me one good reason to use it, despite if the user experience is better or not.

Also I don't know where Linux users get this notion that Mac OS X is based around it. Mac OS X is the product of Apple crapping out on their previous OS efforts, buying out Steve Job's neXt technology (the basis of the GUI in Mac OS X) and built on Unix..last I checked quite a few OS systems are built upon Unix, Linux being one of them. Safari included, I know it is based on a lot of technologies many of which are based on Unix technologies, others are made completely by Apple.

Also I never implied making it better and customizing it is wrong, I'm just saying I am fine with Safari as it is, and when I use Firefox on PC I'm fine with that as it is too.

Khaos: Here is one thing that most people forget when they say Linux can take the market, in order for it to take the market it needs to actually have software. It is one thing that it is used in the corporate world and in servers..it is another thing completely to package it and make it attractive to consumers, not only that making software compatible for it that is popular.

I guess what I am saying is, like 99.999% of home computer users out there I rely on software you can only get on either Mac OS X or Windows, so I guess I'm not '1337' enough to join your little club.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Linux, but for me to use it for the reasons I use a computer, at this point it would be counter-productive.

[Khaos]

You greatly underestimate the software available for Linux. I have yet to have more than 10 instances of not finding an equivalent of a Windows program for Linux, except when it comes to games. That is changing too; more games are being made cross-platform.

If there was no software for it, how would I use it as my main OS comfortably?

Opera is efficient, fully supports web standards and only that, and has lots of little advanced feautres I use regularly. That is why I use it.

I don't think anyone here has ever said OS X is based off of Linux. I know I haven't.

[Applefiend]

Safari on Mac. Firefox is groovy, but it's not good enough to make me switch from Safari. Safari on Leopard is better than Firefox I'd say, Web clipping widgets built into the browser is the coolest trick ever.

Mac OS X, if we're talking the kernal, started off as BSD UNIX, a funky flavour of Bell Labs UNIX used at Berkely, evolved into the Mach (not Mac, Mach) kernal, then ending up living in a basement at Apple.

At no point did the kernal have Linus's paws on it, nothing to do with Linux at all. Whole different branch of the UNIXesque tree.

[Garfunkel]

What I mean is IE can process sloppy code a lot easier than other browsers, in Safari and Firefox I cam get errors on a sloppy coded page, but wont in IE.


In that sense, you are correct.


Also I don't know where Linux users get this notion that Mac OS X is based around it. Mac OS X is the product of Apple crapping out on their previous OS efforts, buying out Steve Job's neXt technology (the basis of the GUI in Mac OS X) and built on Unix..last I checked quite a few OS systems are built upon Unix, Linux being one of them. Safari included, I know it is based on a lot of technologies many of which are based on Unix technologies, others are made completely by Apple.


I never said, and never will say that mac OS X is based off of linux, that is simply not true, I said that safari is based off of the KHTML rendering engine, the same engine developed for konquerer.


Khaos: Here is one thing that most people forget when they say Linux can take the market, in order for it to take the market it needs to actually have software. It is one thing that it is used in the corporate world and in servers..it is another thing completely to package it and make it attractive to consumers, not only that making software compatible for it that is popular.

I guess what I am saying is, like 99.999% of home computer users out there I rely on software you can only get on either Mac OS X or Windows, so I guess I'm not '1337' enough to join your little club.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Linux, but for me to use it for the reasons I use a computer, at this point it would be counter-productive.

That's a popular misunderstanding, as of 2007, there are more Linux developers then Windows developers. There is a plethora of software available for Linux, i can do anything i want in Linux and i'm a power user, the most demanding type too. Cinelerra makes for a premiere like video editing experience FOR FREE. OpenOffice is a MS office experience FOR FREE. MythTV is a media center experience FOR FREE. I could go on all day. Games are the only thing missing but as khaos said, they are starting to drive in Linux's direction too, doom3 and Unreal tournament 2004 for example can be played natively on Linux, and some can be played under WINE or Crossover office or Cedega. Saying that, there are plenty of free and great games available.

Mac OS X, if we're talking the kernal, started off as BSD UNIX, a funky flavour of Bell Labs UNIX used at Berkely, evolved into the Mach (not Mac, Mach) kernal, then ending up living in a basement at Apple.

At no point did the kernal have Linus's paws on it, nothing to do with Linux at all. Whole different branch of the UNIXesque tree.

Exactly, Mac OS X is loosely based, on the micro-kernel layer off of BSD. I never said it was based off of Linux...

But it's all unix, same directory structure, similar BASH/DASH terminals et cetera :)

[XboxEvolved]

Naw it isn't based off of BSD at all..if it borrows from them hey then that is what they do, this entire industry borrows ideas, look at Red Hat for example, or Lindows...

[Phoenix]

Leave it to sloppy code to work well with sloppy code.

[Garfunkel]

Naw it isn't based off of BSD at all..if it borrows from them hey then that is what they do,

Yes it is, on the kernel layer. But what they did is strictly perfectly legal (well, from what you can see anyway, it is closed source).


Mac OS X is based on the Mach kernel and is derived from the BSD implementation of Unix in NEXTSTEP. NEXTSTEP was the object-oriented operating system developed by Steve Jobs' NeXT company after he left Apple in 1985.[3] Meanwhile, during the years without Jobs at the helm, Apple attempted to create a "next-generation" operating system of its own through the Taligent and Copland projects, with little success.


this entire industry borrows ideas, look at Red Hat for example, or Lindows...

Well, Red Hat and Lindows (which is now called linspire, has been for 3 years), are simply distributions based off of the Linux monolithic kernel, so you are correct there.

[Hrama]

I use Firefox. Love the extensions/addons. IE is garbage as far as I am concerned. I use Maxthon for all of my other needs. No point in clogging up Firefox with that mess.

[Garfunkel]

The best browser is clearly Lynx. ;)

[Billet Proof]

Yeah I use firefox too.

Its really quick, easy to use and the tabs make browsing at work easy.

[Garfunkel]

Well i booted into windows for the first time in many weeks to test safari and gnznroses's program. Safari runs ok and seems fairly fast, no difference between Firefox or safari speed wise, and on same pages i'd say that Firefox is faster, but on others it's a close call. It looks smooth and clean and i like most parts of it's UI system (but to tellyou the truth i think Firefox is better looking). Usability wise it is on par with Firefox ease-of-use wise.

One thing, the text size combination buttons (bigger/smaller) don't work for me.

I will be sticking with Firefox for sure, the better browser for me that's for sure.

[scarecrow]

I took safari for a test run too, Firefox seems faster to me, at least on windows, on OS X Safari kicks Firefox's ass but I still use Firefox for the extensions. Though I was totally ignorant of Camino until Lucent said something...

[Khaos]

I'll give Safari a run when it works in Wine.

[Garfunkel]

I'll give Safari a run when it works in Wine.

Give it a go, it might be my system or i had the wrong settings, i didn't play around with it too much, there might even be stuff on winehq about how to install/run it.

but really, it's not worth the hassle installing it on Linux when you have firefox running even more native then what wine can do.

[Khaos]

I looked it up on WineHQ: Garbage, for now. Seems to be a problem in Wine though.

[Garfunkel]

same, i looked it up too:

http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iVersionId=8248

i will follow it, the next versions should fix that bug.