Manhunt 2 banned in UK, Rated AO in US.

[Red]

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/27545/BBFC-rejects-Manhunt-2

[Fats]

If I gave a shit about this game, I'd be up in arms right now but I don't care to be honest. I believe it's fairly obvious that this game hasn't been banned on it's content by the BBFC, but rather because of the foreseen outcry from the public and media outlets of having such a game on the shelves. I'd expect a fairly reduced, toned down effort with less violence in order for it to carry an 18 certificate.

[purchaser]

Another bastion is falling.
What shall we Germans do? ... ... Hope the Austrians are still the brave ones.

[Shadow19]

Manhunt 2 officially banned in the UK

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6054&Itemid=2

This applies to both the PS2 and Wii versions:

"Rejecting a work is a very serious action and one which we do not take lightly. Where possible we try to consider cuts or, in the case of games, modifications which remove the material which contravenes the Board’s published Guidelines.

In the case of Manhunt 2 this has not been possible. Manhunt 2 is distinguishable from recent high-end video games by its unremitting bleakness and callousness of tone in an overall game context which constantly encourages visceral killing with exceptionally little alleviation or distancing.

Against this background, the Board’s carefully considered view is that to issue a certificate to Manhunt 2, on either platform, would involve a range of unjustifiable harm risks, to both adults and minors, within the terms of the Video Recordings Act, and accordingly that its availability, even if statutorily confined to adults, would be unacceptable to the public."

[koten]

^ Hahahaha! Sucks to be a Brit.

[Applefiend]

New Zealand will be next...

[Lynk Former]

^ At least you guys have an R18+ rating for your games, Australia doesn't.

[Viper]

Isn't it wonderful to have adults tell other adults what they can watch, buy, play?

Man, where would us adults be without those super adults telling us what's best for us, eh?


Ever notice how controversy finds every single Rockstar game and only serves to make it more popular than ever?

Rockstar to UK: That sucks but thank you for ensuring instant classic status everywhere for it now.

[Phoenix]

That's not cool... They'd be irresponsible to not put serious restrictions on who can buy it, but banning it is a bit too far.

[Viper]

Is the poll fucked?

[Shadow19]

CCFC calls for ESRB to give Manhunt 2 “Adults Only” rating

http://gonintendo.com/?p=19838

[Viper]

The Irish Film Censor's Office just banned it following the UK ban.


The cite, "IFCO recognizes that in certain films, DVDs and video games, strong graphic violence may be a justifiable element within the overall context of the work. However, in the case of Manhunt 2, IFCO believes that there is no such context, and the level of gross, unrelenting and gratuitous violence is unacceptable."

[Zeep]

Niiiiice.

[Mr. Coww]

The same country that started the page 3 girl bans a game on content... how strange.

[Phoenix]

ESRB either needs to change its standards for AO or give this just an M (unless it contains pornographic content.)

Personally, I vote for the former.

[Bsack]

I'll rent it, beat it, and return it.

[VideoGame mania]

That's retarded, movies are more violent and perverted than games and nobody stops them from selling. Every game is rated, why the heck do you want to ban games from selling ? Whoever wants this game will import it elsewhere it's just a minor annoyance and it won't solve anything.

[Gegenki]

It just doesnt make sense.
Who goes out of their way to get games banned and why? What really could compelle you to get a game banned over anything else.

[SuperLuigiBros]

Ugh. It'll almost definitely be banned in Australia if this is the case. :(

[Viper]

I'm merging the two Manhunt 2 Banned threads and moving to General Gaming.

[Fats]

It just doesnt make sense.
Who goes out of their way to get games banned and why? What really could compelle you to get a game banned over anything else.

Doesn't that tell you something? Apparently the last game that the BBFC banned outright was Carmageddon in 1997, 10 years ago. It's taken them this long to ban another game, so clearly, something stinks in terms of content (I also happen to believe that the BBFC have a more liberal approach to censorship these days, points at Basie Moi and Irreversible.)

I would say this is more to do with Child protection than anything, they're clearly afraid that a minor is going to get their hands on this. I am, however, with Viper on this in that no organisation should be able to pick and choose what material I decide to watch. That's completely for me to decide.

[Fats]

The Irish Film Censor's Office just banned it following the UK ban.


The cite, "IFCO recognizes that in certain films, DVDs and video games, strong graphic violence may be a justifiable element within the overall context of the work. However, in the case of Manhunt 2, IFCO believes that there is no such context, and the level of gross, unrelenting and gratuitous violence is unacceptable."

I would have actually been able to ban my life savings on that. In terms of censorship Ireland seems to be very, very strict in comparison to the BBFC.

[Viper]

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6062&Itemid=2

Manhunt 2 gets AO rating in US.

[masteratt]

For fuck sake, what the fuck!

Luckily I'll be out of the UK when this game is out so I'll just buy and play it there but it pisses me off that we live in a society that bans fucking entertainment like they don't have bigger things they should be tackling.

I bet they feel good about themselves now, they did a great service to humanity, well done lads.

Fucking idiots.

[Viper]

Most retailers won't carry AO games in the US so it's like an indirect ban. You can still get it but you'll have to go searching hard for it.

Take 2 plans to request an appeal of the rating based on the fact that similarly violent content in other media (films) are given a R rating (M rating ESRB equivalent).

[Carlos]

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6062&Itemid=2

Manhunt 2 gets AO rating in US.
I agree with Take Two on that mature rating comment.

I can't believe the game is going to be toned down due to the stupidity of ESRB.

I mean, ESRB is being unfair. Most games on the market, even the original Manhunt were all just as violent as Manhunt 2, yet the game gets an AO rating!?

That deserves a big "WTF?"

[Viper]

The ESRB is basing it on the Wii input method as in you act out the violence itself instead of just push a button. However they're broadening the scope by putting the same rating on the PSP and PS2 versions as well despite the lack of motion control.

[Phoenix]

I knew it was high time to replace the ESRB with a more logical system.

[Viper]

Overall they do a decent job. It's enforcement that is the real problem.

However this is just stupid. AO and the comparable NC-17 rating usually revolve around sexual content, not violence.

[Carlos]

The way I saw the AO is beyond just violence, but also sexual content packed in, and I don't see it like that.

[Shadow Voa]

And people will say what system is this "evil" game on?

Only to be answered PS2 and Wii. What happens next is quite obvious...

[Viper]

So much for the kiddie image. Damn.

[curryking1]

That's laughable to ban it. The hell is wrong with them? These people are the ones who actually discussed ***king banning head scarves. ***k you UK, and IIRC they are not allowed in many institutions like schools or something right now (Am I getting this right?).

All they should've done is slap a rating of AO on the the damn thing like the US.

I like the AO rating personally because I am hoping it will make people more aware of the ratings system and by knowing actually use it, ***king parents sometimes, I swear.

Bad thing for Wii though if this starts getting madly published, this has the potential to really hurt it if the word is widely spread.

But seriously? Banning it? Go ban like all those ***king far more disgusting films too then. And I damn well know there's a bunch of damn books about gangsters and whatnot that describe so deeply death and destruction, and even describe how and why those things were done the way they were. Omerta comes to mind.

***k you UK, you suck balls.

[Fats]

^If they slapped an R18 on it over here then it would only be available in... Sex shops! :)

[curryking1]

Lol, that's pretty hilarious, but I'd rather that be the case. I have no problem with businesses making their own business decision not to stock the item, but this illegal stuff? Give me a break...

I'm going to guess it's illegal to have any AO material in a regular shop in the UK also?

Leave something up to the business' discretion, idiots...

[Phoenix]

Bad thing for Wii though if this starts getting madly published, this has the potential to really hurt it if the word is widely spread.Yes, that could happen, but it could and probably will help make Nintendo seem more "mature." I'm putting it in quotes because I don't agree with that use of the word.

[Viper]

Lol, that's pretty hilarious, but I'd rather that be the case. I have no problem with businesses making their own business decision not to stock the item, but this illegal stuff? Give me a break...

I'm going to guess it's illegal to have any AO material in a regular shop in the UK also?

Leave something up to the business' discretion, idiots...

I don't even like the idea of relegating the sales outlets in that manner either. It should be like alcohol and cigarettes. Show a frikkin ID and be done with it. Relegating the sales outlets is bad for business. Major chains would stock AO content (game wise) if it required an ID to purchase.

[curryking1]

Well it's up to EB Games to not sell cigarettes or not you know? Just make it legal for anyone to sell it if they want to.

EB Games doesn't sell cigarettes. Loblaws doesn't need to sell it, but they can and do, and they still have to show ID, perfect example, works fine.

Leave it to the business' individual discretion to sell things to whoever they want to market to, that's their choice to sell bras or blazers you know?

[Phoenix]

Right. As long as they ID the person in question, if a kid gets a hold of the game and kills someone, the blame falls straight where it belongs - to the person who bought the game and let them have it.

[masteratt]

Isn't there a licensing issue?

You set up a clothes shop for example and then you pay license to the government whic grants you to sell clothes, if you want to sell cigarettes for example, you have to buy another license?

I might be making this up but I doubt it's as simple as "any shop can sell anything".

[Viper]

This bullshit restrictive circumstance is barring on the level of being unconstitutional.

Granted, yes the businesses have the right to carry whatever stock they deem and are licensed for (Masteratt, there are required licenses for certain restricted goods). Being rated AO is definitely better than an outright ban. It's the whole "we know what's best for you" issue that's pissing me off.

[TheGreenElf]

That's legendary. People will buy this game just for the fact that it's the first AO game. Hell, I went from a "Maybe" to a "No doubt about it" for that reason.

[Viper]

I do love the irony given the kiddie company console gains the first AO rating.

Some games were warned of getting one such as Carmegeddon but was removed after devs retooled the game prior to release. GTA SA was upped to AO temporarily during the Hot Coffee issue. This may be the first one to stick.

[Delirious]

Still a maybe for me, we'll see how my funds are looking when it comes out.

[koten]

That's legendary. People will buy this game just for the fact that it's the first AO game. Hell, I went from a "Maybe" to a "No doubt about it" for that reason.Yeah. Me too.

[Hylian-Advocate]

hmm.... I agree with many of you that this may increase the awareness factor for the game... ...I mean... I almost think that Rockstar relies on this controversy to get peoples attention (and it has worked in the past)....

But do you think that this might cuase a delay???

I was hoping it would release right when I get home from Italy on the 11th of July.

I mean... with all these rateing issues..... do you think production will be hampered enough for it to not make its July 10 release date?...that's only three weeks away and that ratinglogo needs to be printed on the boxart.

[purchaser]

Doesn't that tell you something? Apparently the last game that the BBFC banned outright was Carmageddon in 1997, 10 years ago...

What about "Rule of Rose"?

I can tell you what it means to ban a game. We have in Germany tons of banned and "forgotten" games. This is cultural barbarism and it sadly reminds of the burning books in our history. Never again!

[Gegenki]

Doesn't that tell you something? Apparently the last game that the BBFC banned outright was Carmageddon in 1997, 10 years ago. It's taken them this long to ban another game, so clearly, something stinks in terms of content (I also happen to believe that the BBFC have a more liberal approach to censorship these days, points at Basie Moi and Irreversible.)

I would say this is more to do with Child protection than anything, they're clearly afraid that a minor is going to get their hands on this. I am, however, with Viper on this in that no organisation should be able to pick and choose what material I decide to watch. That's completely for me to decide.

And I hope it stays like that. When the RFOM thing came up people started talking about banning violent games again.
If things worsen we could start to lose good games. The thing is. Nobody is really going to do something until it's a game they really care about.
The - it's not my business until it happens to me - approach
It's stupid because they say it's so that younger people don't get their hand on it but its illegal to sell to the kids.
People for some strange reason would rather blame games than the parents. People say games are bad for you but I'd bet money that anyone who says that doesn't have the kind of problem solving abilities or reaction times as anyone here

[Teh Roxor!]

Wow, AO. Which stores will carry that?

I really wish stores like Wal-Mart would get off their perceived moral high horses and just sell the damn game.

Also, Suda 51 said that Grasshopper's Wii game "No More Heroes" will be more violent than Manhunt 2. It might be tough to follow that claim through after this if they want it to sell.

[OnBake Platinum]

“Games made for Nintendo systems enjoy a broad variety of styles, genres and ratings. These are some of the reasons our Wii and Nintendo DS systems appeal to such a broad range of people. But as with books, television and movies, different content is meant for different audiences. That’s why the ESRB provides ratings to help consumers understand the content of a game before they purchase it. As stated on Nintendo.com, Nintendo does not allow any AO-rated content on its systems.” - Nintendo representative

http://gonintendo.com/?p=19922

[Fats]

Whoa, no Manhunt at all then on Wii?

[Shadow19]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6172830.html

GameSpot has confirmed with Nintendo and Sony that one of those options--accept the ESRB's judgment and release the game with the AO rating--isn't an option at all. Both companies forbid licensed third-party publishers from releasing games rated AO for Adults Only on their various hardware platforms. The sole exception to this rule was in 2005, when the already released Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas was retroactively rated AO, at which point retailers pulled it from shelves and Take-Two suspended production of the game.

"It's currently our policy not to allow the playback of AO-rated content on our systems," a Sony spokesperson told GameSpot.

Nintendo's official line was much the same. "Games made for Nintendo systems enjoy a broad variety of styles, genres and ratings," a representative told GameSpot. "These are some of the reasons our Wii and Nintendo DS systems appeal to such a broad range of people. But as with books, television and movies, different content is meant for different audiences. That's why the ESRB provides ratings to help consumers understand the content of a game before they purchase it. As stated on Nintendo.com, Nintendo does not allow any AO-rated content on its systems."

[curryking1]

If it's Sony's or Nintendo's choice, I'm fine with that. But no way in hell should anyone be making it illegal.

[masteratt]

Great now when we stab someone in MH2, we'll get a bunch of flowers coming out of their head.

And every loading screen will have "hey guys, let's all love each other and all play games about solving maths problems."

[Phoenix]

Also, Suda 51 said that Grasshopper's Wii game "No More Heroes" will be more violent than Manhunt 2. It might be tough to follow that claim through after this if they want it to sell.I just want them to make the game how they believe it will be the most fun. Violence and fun do not go hand in hand. There is no need to make the game more violent than it was intended to be just so it can outdo another game. Especially a game that is getting banned everywhere.

[curryking1]

And every loading screen will have "hey guys, let's all love each other and all play games about solving maths problems."

That's what I do now! :(:(:(

[Zeep]

I guess Take-two really needs to hope they can convince the ESRB that AO is unfair. But like my friend pointed out, considering all the crap the ESRB gets from the Jack Thompson side of things, if they backed down without any major changes to the game they'd probably be ripped apart now.

[Phoenix]

Well, it is so that shouldn't be hard.

Or it will.

[Viper]

Jack T is losing influence. Florida is going to or already has removed his license to practice law in Fl.

[curryking1]

^Really?

Excellent. Lol :P

[Zeep]

Jack T is losing influence. Florida is going to or already has removed his license to practice law in Fl.

I didn't necessarily mean him specifically, but everyone on his "side" (that the ESRB is ineffective).

[Viper]

True but he was their big soldier.

[Segitz]

Now you now, how we germans feel...

I still can get my game fix thru import, but its always a bit of a hassle though (sometimes its much more expensive)

The main problem here is, that I usually dont buy games at my local stores, but at Amazon or whatnot. And shipping games USK 18 requires "special treatment" (only I can get the package, nobody else) and thus is more expensive (Amazon adds 5€ to the price).

But then again, I couldnt care less :D I found MH1 to be soooooo boring beside the gore (which in the end was nothing more than a 3D version of MK2 sort of).

Expect Germany to not rate and in the end index (effectively ban) MH2 the next few weeks.

[masteratt]

Yes!

Rockstar is fighting it. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6225286.stm)

[the boney king of nowhere.]

i'll just ebay the american psp version.

[purchaser]

"It's currently our policy not to allow the playback of AO-rated content on our systems," a Sony spokesperson told GameSpot.

Is this so? ... Fine!
You've just lost a customer. I'm no longer interested.

Put your PS3 deep into your...

[the boney king of nowhere.]

...seems like rockstar may have just made game that nobody can ever play.

[Applefiend]

Starting to feel sorry for Take 2, they can't do anything right.

The philosophy of "free advertising by being controversial" needs to be well executed, not like this.

[Viper]

i'll just ebay the american psp version.

Sony bans AO games on PSP so that won't help you.


Gamefly and Blockbuster Online just announced they will not carry AO games either.

[Phoenix]

Manhunt 2 will be released, don't worry. Even if they can't get them to change it to M, they will at least water down a little of the graphicness of the violence. There's no way they will just let a game of theirs die, especially one that has had this much media around it.

[Red]

F**** that. I want my Manhunt 2 Uncut.

[Zeep]

Yeah. I don't want to play the ESRB-approved, watered-down version. Go big or go home, as they say.

[Phoenix]

They may say that, but in this case going home involves Take Two wasting lots of money and no one ever getting to play the game.

[masteratt]

If Sony and Nintendo weren't pussies and help Take-Two appeal the rating, we can make a change.

The industry is growing, we need to act now.

If ESRB whips us at this early stage, we are whipped forever. That's what happened to Hollywood, there are more banned movies than you think.

It frustrates me so much that we censor someone's creativity especially as it's just an entertainment form.

[Red]

Sign in Please:

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?4manhunt

[Phoenix]

Online petitions are absolutely useless. What will this accomplish? To show that there are so many gamers who want to play Manhunt 2? Gee, that'll solve the problem. *rolls eyes*

[Viper]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6172931.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;0

Take 2 delays game to ponder next move.

[Phoenix]

That's the right move.

[Viper]

Now this is just funny.

The MINF (National Institute on Media and the Family) has released this statement about the situation.

"Hopefully Take-Two has learned from its Manhunt 2 experience and will undertake preventive measures to ensure its future games, including Grand Theft Auto IV, are appropriate for families and gamers."

Even though it is the organization's mission to inform consumers as to the content in videogames, NIMF seems a little misinformed as it refers to Manhunt 2 as a "first-player shooter." The title is a third-person action game.

They also admitting to not having played a preview build before railing on it.

[curryking1]

They said first player though. Maybe that means.... something other than first person lol. Maybe it means.. game.. where you are.. the first player? Hmmmmmmm..... Or.... instead of first person linguistically, like you are talking about yourself or someone directly.. you are controlling someone directly?

Wow.. NIMF is very creative, they deserve an award.

Look! NIMF coined a videogame term! First player shooter! lol!

[Viper]

I guess in their eyes the second player is the one getting shot or should the second player collect flowers in the fields?

[koten]

Now this is just funny.

The MINF (National Institute on Media and the Family) has released this statement about the situation.



They also admitting to not having played a preview build before railing on it.Bullshit like this pisses me off. This company doesn't know shit about what they're talking about but they're read to mount of a full assault on it. Ignorant fucks.

And what the hell is this? Making games "family appropriate"? That's a load of crap. Some games are ment to be played by everyone, some are not. It's up to the parents to decide what they're kids play. Stop trying to do their goddamn job for them. If they parents let the kids play the games, then it's the parents goddamn fault. Stop telling me what's appropriate for me or my children, and let me fucking decide.

[Viper]

Bullshit like this pisses me off. This company doesn't know shit about what they're talking about but they're read to mount of a full assault on it. Ignorant fucks.

And what the hell is this? Making games "family appropriate"? That's a load of crap. Some games are ment to be played by everyone, some are not. It's up to the parents to decide what they're kids play. Stop trying to do their goddamn job for them. If they parents let the kids play the games, then it's the parents goddamn fault. Stop telling me what's appropriate for me or my children, and let me fucking decide.

QFT.

I don't let my boys watch me play RE or Godfather and I damn sure won't let them see Manhunt 2.