planning for a new car...

[masonite]

Thinking of getting a new car, currently tossing up between an AWD mitsubishi magna ('03 onwards), RS impreza ('03-'05) or a corolla sportivo ('03 - '06, but preferably '05).

ATM im leaning towards the corolla, mainly due to the power, the fact that its a 6 speed manual (it'll be my first stick), the power, the fuel economy and the power. Usually go for around mid to low $20K, with a few '03 models going for mid to high teen K's.

The magna is would be nice, especially in the rough stuff, and would be cheaper, but it'd be worth next to nothing after a few years (always had poor resale), drinks fuel (officially 12L/100km, but in tests for wheels mag it did 15.5L average compared to a liberty 2.5 doing about 12L :spit: It has a bit more power than the corolla, with 156Kw, and about 300nm torque, but its lugging an extra 400-500kg...thats half a tonne... :buldge: Goes for high teen K's, couple above $20K but a couple around $15K too.

Lastly the impreza RS sedan, which is the one i was originally most fond of, but now am not so sure. Its got the positive of AWD, which should be more fun than FWD, and about 40nm more torque (about 225nm) than the corolla, but also about 30 kw less power (112kw). And any torque advantage is negated by weighing about an extra 150kg. fuel economy sits somewhere between the corolla and the magna, with about 11-12L per 100km for the 5 speed auto. Goes for low $20k usually, with a few below 20k.

at the moment i'm still saving, hopefully will be getting a new job in the coming months and will have more money to play with and the possibility of getting a loan, so it's not urgent, and i can wait for prices to come down a bit, but at the same time my current car is a purple '98 VW Polo 1.6, producing a piss-poor 55kw (claimed, could be a bit less now considering you really have to wring it to get onto the freeway, and thats been happening a fair bit with me at the helm) and has a 4 speed auto - you have to hold on during the gearchanges... (It's my parent's incentive for me to get my own car i think).


The corolla has the 2zz-fe from the celica, but actually puts out an extra kw (a lot, i know ;)) so power sits at 141kw. Torque is 180nm, and most of it is up fairly high, so it could take a bit of revving, but once lift kicks in it's supposed to feel pretty special :devious:.

I don't really care too much about ricing it up, everyone in my suburb puts a cannon on their hatchback the moment they get it, drops it, buts a shite bodykit on it, stupid chrome rims, etc. and i'm not into the whole all-looks-no-go side of things. Even so, the corolla has a few options for cat backs, as well as CAI, so that'll probably get done, with lowering it maybe an inch or inch and a half and getting slightly larger wheels (17's at the most) coming a bit later (I think these things through a lot). Also might get rid of a few badges, namely the sportivo ones, but keep the vvtl-i ones and possibly the corolla badge (not sure yet).

anyone had experience or suggestions about any of these cars? Possible alternatives also welcome.

[Greg]

eh I'm not that fond of cars, Jeep wrangler is were its at.

[masonite]

yeh i was thinking about a wrangler, but then i realised:

a) im not gay.

b) see above.


So i stopped.

;);););)

[masonite]

ok, i've now thrown a dc2r integra type r into the mix..... as well..... better chassis and power than the corolla, but less practicality, and hard to find low km examples for a reasonable price...but good performance.

[The Dude]

Go with the Subaru RS. You will not be dissapointed

[Xer0]

Go with the Subaru RS. You will not be dissapointed

I would agree with this but he can get an ITR, sorry Subbaru.

[cpiasminc]

The corolla has the 2zz-fe from the celica, but actually puts out an extra kw (a lot, i know ) so power sits at 141kw. Torque is 180nm, and most of it is up fairly high, so it could take a bit of revving, but once lift kicks in it's supposed to feel pretty special .
My Matrix is also a 2zz-ge version, though its power output is less than that of the Celica (about 7 kw less). It's partly attributable to the fact that this was one of those years that the 2zz was offered with an automatic (the manual version is something like 4 kw less than the Celica's), and you know American car lots -- many of them just refuse to carry manuals or even sell them if you ask for one.

It does require some management because it just has no pickup at all until you get into the high revs. Up until 6000 RPM, it's essentially equivalent to the 1zz-fe in a normal Corolla (probably a little weaker-feeling, actually because the torque curve is behind), but it's after you push beyond that point is where you'll feel the difference. It's very hard to keep it there because the revs drop really fast from that high range. With a manual, it should be possible to keep it in that range, though it's utterly impossible with the auto.

Having at least been able to rent a 2zz Celica w/ a manual, I can warn you of one thing with that 6-speed (assuming it's the same one). It has what is quite possibly the most annoying and temperamental clutch... EVER. You seriously have to push it to the point where you think you're going to bend the sheetmetal on your floor before the shift lever will even move smoothly. Even 2 cm from the flooring the pedal, and you'll feel the clutch slip and scrape bit -- even when you're just starting the car or sitting at idle (i.e. it isn't just a phenomenon tied to flexing at high revs). And I've heard owners of basically every other 2zz vehicle on the planet (save for Lotus Elise/Exige owners) complain about the same thing, so it's not a unique experience. Presumably, Lotus mates a different transmission and/or clutch to their application (which makes sense considering they're doing a RWD as well as supercharged versions).

[Xer0]

Presumably, Lotus mates a different transmission and/or clutch to their application (which makes sense considering they're doing a RWD as well as supercharged versions).

I dont know about the Elise S/Exige S but on the regular Elise's the powertrain is completely Toyota

[goku2057]

Go with the Subaru RS. You will not be dissapointed
Smartest thing you've ever said.

I drove a Subaru for many years, and I'll tell you this. I beat the trash out of that thing. I ran it hard, and often. Rarely did anything ever go awry on it, and when it did, it was never anything major. I put 170k on it, and it finally decided to break. There was no median with that baby, it was either standing still, or floored. Subaru has a customer for life, now. If I could have afforded a 2.5RS, I would be driving a 2.5RS now.

Personally, I've driven many 2.5RS's, Carolla type-S's, and Inegra Type-S (best I can get becasue they don't sell type-r's here)

I'd take teh 2.5RS out of all of those. The AWD really makes for a fun driving experience.

[masonite]

My Matrix is also a 2zz-ge version, though its power output is less than that of the Celica (about 7 kw less). It's partly attributable to the fact that this was one of those years that the 2zz was offered with an automatic (the manual version is something like 4 kw less than the Celica's), and you know American car lots -- many of them just refuse to carry manuals or even sell them if you ask for one.

It does require some management because it just has no pickup at all until you get into the high revs. Up until 6000 RPM, it's essentially equivalent to the 1zz-fe in a normal Corolla (probably a little weaker-feeling, actually because the torque curve is behind), but it's after you push beyond that point is where you'll feel the difference. It's very hard to keep it there because the revs drop really fast from that high range. With a manual, it should be possible to keep it in that range, though it's utterly impossible with the auto.

Having at least been able to rent a 2zz Celica w/ a manual, I can warn you of one thing with that 6-speed (assuming it's the same one). It has what is quite possibly the most annoying and temperamental clutch... EVER. You seriously have to push it to the point where you think you're going to bend the sheetmetal on your floor before the shift lever will even move smoothly. Even 2 cm from the flooring the pedal, and you'll feel the clutch slip and scrape bit -- even when you're just starting the car or sitting at idle (i.e. it isn't just a phenomenon tied to flexing at high revs). And I've heard owners of basically every other 2zz vehicle on the planet (save for Lotus Elise/Exige owners) complain about the same thing, so it's not a unique experience. Presumably, Lotus mates a different transmission and/or clutch to their application (which makes sense considering they're doing a RWD as well as supercharged versions).


yeh, i've seen the power and torque curve of the 2zz, and it looks fairly lazy until you hit lift, but its a six speed box which could help it stay there....for everyday driving though i doubt it will be up there, especially with fuel prices where they are, ill be driving for economy.

And as to the gearbox - its a slightly different gearbox to the celica, but there have been complaints about grinding noises in the first 30,000km and stiff clutches (to the point where its hard to change gear). so it definately sounds like thats something to be wary of.


thanks for the input guys, i think i'm back leaning towards the RS again, with the 5 speed manual, it'll be nice to have awd traction :)

[cpiasminc]

yeh, i've seen the power and torque curve of the 2zz, and it looks fairly lazy until you hit lift, but its a six speed box which could help it stay there....for everyday driving though i doubt it will be up there, especially with fuel prices where they are, ill be driving for economy.
Well, that's the funny thing. When I talk to a lot of people to compare the auto 1zz/2zz Matrix to the manual 1zz/2zz, the manual 2zz still gets better mileage in practice to the autos even for people who claim to regularly drive in lift.

Most people like myself with the auto tend to maximize their mileage by accelerator work that keeps revs low but also forces the tranny to shift out of low gears. At best, I can average around 32.5 mpg (~7.25 L/100km) on summer gas and maybe 30 mpg (~7.85 L/100km) on winter gas -- to be fair, though, I cover a lot of highway mileage. People who drive the manual 1zzs(5-spd) and 2zzs(6-spd), both have results like 34-36 mpg (6.55-6.95 L/100km) all the time. Most of the variance comes from the type of miles they cover most. It's utterly unfair.

[goku2057]

I think you'll be pleasantly suprised masonite. The RS is an amazing car. Just make sure to get a newer one ;p. They look better.

[masonite]

hehehe, yeh, i was planning on getting the post-bug-eyed one,i like that one the most.

yeh the mileage is the real big thing for the corolla for me, especially when the performance is taken into account - its very cheap performance. I guess its a trade-off - awd for decreased economy. i think it'll come down to the prices that both are at...

[goku2057]

Yeah, those bug-eyed ones are hideous. Gawd. And to think I used to like them.

[Xer0]

Yeah, those bug-eyed ones are hideous. Gawd. And to think I used to like them.

I like the bug-eyed ones, they were cute, at least they dont look like this...
http://img.scoop.co.nz/stories/images/0704/3d329e9d54abe8a7170f.jpeg

[Vegtro]

Get a mini cooper S or at least test drive one. My brother has one and it's a very fun car to drive and the newer models has great gas mileage.

[masonite]

I like the bug-eyed ones, they were cute, at least they dont look like this...
http://img.scoop.co.nz/stories/images/0704/3d329e9d54abe8a7170f.jpeg

you're right there, the new imprezas look shite....at least you guys get the choice of a hatch or sedan, we're stuck with the hatch, which looks like a cheap korean car at the front, 1 series sides and tumblehome, and lexus rx at the back... and it's apparently been done to "expand appeal" :spit: . this also means the WRX will be toned down... although the sti should see greater differentiation from the wrx - it'd better be bloody different.


and i went to a few car yards the other day, mainly to look for a ute with my dad, but took a look at a few other cars too..... now i'm looking at a prelude VTi-R, 97-01, saw a decent one for 20K with about 60,000km, which is in my price range. They're a tad heavy, but they've got a decent bit of torque for the class and a good chassis. nice and low inside too, but still with a bit of headroom, which is good. back seats are almost nonexistant, but at least it means i won't be a f*cking taxi ;) and its got lift :)


and yeh, the mini cooper s's are pretty quick, but they're a bit out of my price range.... and they're a bit small - if i'm going to get an impractical car, I might as well get one that looks good ;):)

[Xer0]

and i went to a few car yards the other day, mainly to look for a ute with my dad, but took a look at a few other cars too..... now i'm looking at a prelude VTi-R, 97-01, saw a decent one for 20K with about 60,000km, which is in my price range. They're a tad heavy, but they've got a decent bit of torque for the class and a good chassis. nice and low inside too, but still with a bit of headroom, which is good. back seats are almost nonexistant, but at least it means i won't be a f*cking taxi ;) and its got lift :)



That Prelude, although nice, is alittle heavy like you mentioned since it is a 2 door accord on roids pretty much. They do have a great engine however and a pretty willing chassis, so all in all i think its a good choice. But i still think u can prolly do more with the Subie, or that ITR that you mentioned earlier

[Vegtro]

Just wondering, are you going to mod the car?

[cpiasminc]

I like the bug-eyed ones, they were cute, at least they dont look like this...
http://img.scoop.co.nz/stories/images/0704/3d329e9d54abe8a7170f.jpeg
I don't get the big deal with everybody complaining about the new Imprezas. They look completely normal to me. And I mean normal in the sense that there's nothing unique about that appearance in any way whatsoever. There's nothing great about it, but there's nothing ugly about it either. It looks like a million and one other hatchbacks. The only thing you can say negative is that it doesn't stand out at all. Saying it looks like a mishmash of other design cues is moot since you can basically say that about 75% of the entire automotive industry. I just get the impression that everybody's crying because it flies in the face of what you'd expect and nothing more than that (people hate change).

As far as I'm concerned, the main thing I see in the hatchback is that there's a chance for a WRX to be fun and also not entirely useless. Granted, the older WRX sedans weren't quite as useless (and overpriced) as a Mini Cooper, but that's not saying much.

[Xer0]

I don't get the big deal with everybody complaining about the new Imprezas. They look completely normal to me. And I mean normal in the sense that there's nothing unique about that appearance in any way whatsoever. There's nothing great about it, but there's nothing ugly about it either. It looks like a million and one other hatchbacks. The only thing you can say negative is that it doesn't stand out at all. Saying it looks like a mishmash of other design cues is moot since you can basically say that about 75% of the entire automotive industry. I just get the impression that everybody's crying because it flies in the face of what you'd expect and nothing more than that (people hate change).


That in there is the problem, its too normal, and it is pretty ugly too when u put it up against the new Lancer or Mazda 3 and not as distinctive as the new Civic. Subaru is a niche auto maker and shouldnt be chasing the likes of Honda or Toyota in terms of volume which is what a design like this is aimed at doing.

[masonite]

I don't get the big deal with everybody complaining about the new Imprezas. They look completely normal to me. And I mean normal in the sense that there's nothing unique about that appearance in any way whatsoever. There's nothing great about it, but there's nothing ugly about it either. It looks like a million and one other hatchbacks. The only thing you can say negative is that it doesn't stand out at all. Saying it looks like a mishmash of other design cues is moot since you can basically say that about 75% of the entire automotive industry. I just get the impression that everybody's crying because it flies in the face of what you'd expect and nothing more than that (people hate change).

As far as I'm concerned, the main thing I see in the hatchback is that there's a chance for a WRX to be fun and also not entirely useless. Granted, the older WRX sedans weren't quite as useless (and overpriced) as a Mini Cooper, but that's not saying much.

its true that most other cars take design cues from competitors, but if it isn't done cohesively it doesn't look good.

im sure it'll grow on everyone somewhat, but after the bug eyed impreza, and the "wings and fuselage" impreza, i think people were looking for a more aggressively styled car - a bit like it's closest competitor, the new lancer.

For such a successful model its unusual for it to be so derivative - especially with the late nineties mazda 323 grille.

the purpose of the car is to reposition subaru, and it will probably be successful - the inside of the car s supposed to be much improved - but it simply blends in to every other cheap hatchback from the outside.

can't wait to see what they do with the sti though...


oh, and im not really planning to modify the car, after looking at insurance costs... eventually i might do exhaust and headers, but that'll be it, regardless of the car i get.

[goku2057]

That in there is the problem, its too normal, and it is pretty ugly too when u put it up against the new Lancer or Mazda 3 and not as distinctive as the new Civic. Subaru is a niche auto maker and shouldnt be chasing the likes of Honda or Toyota in terms of volume which is what a design like this is aimed at doing.


Bingo. I liked my Imprezas when they looked more agressive. I don't want a WRX or STi to look normal. I want them to stick out. I want them to look over the top. That's part of the reason I love them Subies so much.

[The Dude]

A subaru isn't made to pick up chicks and look pretty. It's built to be a rugged rally machine that kicks dirt in the face of its competition. I like my awd cars with an agressive stance, mud in the wheel wells and rock chips in the bumper. Anything less is a diservice to a subaru.

[masonite]

A subaru isn't made to pick up chicks and look pretty. It's built to be a rugged rally machine that kicks dirt in the face of its competition. I like my awd cars with an agressive stance, mud in the wheel wells and rock chips in the bumper. Anything less is a diservice to a subaru.

since when is aggressive not pretty? ;)

[goku2057]

A subaru isn't made to pick up chicks and look pretty. It's built to be a rugged rally machine that kicks dirt in the face of its competition. I like my awd cars with an agressive stance, mud in the wheel wells and rock chips in the bumper. Anything less is a diservice to a subaru.

This coming form a guy who hasn't owned one. I had a stint with a WRX, but my poor man's wallet couldn't afford it. You can pick up chicks in them. Just let the turbo whine a little when pulling in front of the mall, etc.

[masonite]

This coming form a guy who hasn't owned one. I had a stint with a WRX, but my poor man's wallet couldn't afford it. You can pick up chicks in them. Just let the turbo whine a little when pulling in front of the mall, etc.

lol, thats supposed to pull chicks? everyone in my suburb must be a f*cking babe magnet then ;)

you can pull anything with a WRX, as long as theres no cannon, stupid bodykit, stupid chromies, or stupid bov.