Waiting on KILLZONE! [Archive]

Trailblazer

06-26-2007, 09:42 AM

Good job MILR, now please be the first to promise no meltdown from you after screens/videos are published.

Oh man there will be meltdowns all around no mater what. It'll go something like this

Killzone 2 is shown:

Sony fans: Holy Christ you see that ? That's awesome! Not quite the E3 2005 but damn sure close! Best Next Gen game by far!! Playstation is a Beast!

Xbox Fan: Meh... I see some jagges and the textures on that rock over there are blurry, Sony Lies again !

Internet explodes

404 page not found.

I can't wait. Heaven or Hell it will be epic. :djparty:

Passive

06-26-2007, 09:56 AM

lol very predictable. KZ will be shown, it will be stunning and Xblock loers will shun it.

TEEDA

06-26-2007, 10:01 AM

lol very predictable. KZ will be shown, it will be stunning and Xblock loers will shun it.

I think both game will be surprising visually. In their report both dev teams said that their games will use specific lighting technology. As the two consoles share probably the same power, it will be good to compare the two titiles on the next generation system.

And to mesure the talent of the dev teams !

I' m interesting in halo 3 to see their " global illumination " the game will provide. And the indirecte lighting in Killzone .

Deferred rendering in Killzone 2

Next generation gaming brought high resolutions, very complex environments and large textures to our living rooms. With virtually every asset being inflated, it's hard to use traditional forward rendering and hope for rich, dynamic environments with extensive dynamic lighting. Deferred rendering, on the other hand, has been traditionally described as a nice technique for rendering of scenes with many dynamic lights, that unfortunately suffers from fill-rate problems and lack of anti-aliasing and very few games that use it were published.

In this talk, we will discuss our approach to face this challenge and how we designed a deferred rendering engine that uses multi-sampled anti-aliasing (MSAA). We will give in-depth description of each individual stage of our real-time rendering pipeline and the main ingredients of our lighting, post-processing and data management. We'll show how we utilize PS3's SPUs for fast rendering of a large set of primitives, parallel processing of geometry and computation of indirect lighting. We will also describe our optimizations of the lighting and our parallel split (cascaded) shadow map algorithm for faster and stable MSAA output.

makeitlookreal

06-26-2007, 02:08 PM

Good job MILR, now please be the first to promise no meltdown from you after screens/videos are published.

Please promise not to dirty your pants when you see how awesome the game looks!

dnpmakkah

06-26-2007, 08:05 PM

We have seen absolutly NOTHING from Killzone PS3 EVER yet it is possibly the most anticipated game for this years E3. It's been a couple of years since a CGI trailer was shown but for the past two years it has managed to stay on everyones mind. Something about that just sounds sick...don't get me wrong I'm excited as hell to see what has come about this game but damn if that's not sick then I don't know what is.

makeitlookreal

06-26-2007, 08:13 PM

I think they have had the time to make this game look better than the trailer.

It won't look the same, because it obviously won't have as much anti-aliasing, but I think it will match the trailer.

dnpmakkah

06-26-2007, 08:35 PM

i hope so MILR...I'm with you. I want this game too be great.

makeitlookreal

06-26-2007, 08:39 PM

Thanks dnpmakkah,

I'm almost certain this game will be great. The developers have ALREADY SAID THAT IT WILL MATCH THE TARGET RENDER.

They have tons of time to work on the game. I also think they are going to fully utilize the CELL processor. Remember, it's barely been tapped so far!

Also, a lot of games have not even used streaming textures from the HDD. Even Resistance did not use them! I think that if they use the CELL a lot and stream textures from the HDD they will be able to do AMAZING THINGS with this game.

Trailblazer

06-26-2007, 10:15 PM

Thanks dnpmakkah,

I'm almost certain this game will be great. The developers have ALREADY SAID THAT IT WILL MATCH THE TARGET RENDER.

I guest it depends on your Definition of the word Match. will the characters have multi-million polygon budgets like the characters in the CGI trailer ?

NO!

But will GG make clever use on normal maps to simulate high poly characters ?

Yes!

The question has never been, "Can the developers would match the CGI?" the answer to that has always been no.

The REAL question is "Can the Developers could mimic the CGI trailer." The answer to that is, maybe.

Viper

06-26-2007, 10:25 PM

There are 4 types of gamers waiting for K2.

1. Game is shown, they say, "Nice" and go pre-order.
2. Game is shown, they say, "WTF?? This is bullshit. Fuck you Sony."
3. Game is shown, they say, "Finally, it's over. Oh joyful day."
4. Game is shown, they say, "But, but, but.....the Halo 3?"

Gamer 3 goes to gamer 1's house and has fun playing K2 while gamers 3 and 4 think of various schemes to kill everyone.

Shadow Voa

06-26-2007, 10:27 PM

^ And see? I just wanted to see it and decide whether or not I plan on playing it, so many complications...

Applefiend

06-26-2007, 10:46 PM

If it has dudes with big guns who swear a lot and costs lots and lots of money to make I'm in. :)

yoshaw

06-26-2007, 11:04 PM

Please promise not to dirty your pants when you see how awesome the game looks!

LMAO, good one!!

Now I'm dead sure you're gonna have a meltdown regardless. :spit:

If it has dudes with big guns who swear a lot and costs lots and lots of money to make I'm in.

Right behind ya, captain! lol

makeitlookreal

06-26-2007, 11:08 PM

No, I'm not going to have a meltdown.

I already expect the game to match the target render.

VG Aficionado

06-26-2007, 11:16 PM

And that's exactly why you're going to be extremely disappointed.

Shadow Voa

06-26-2007, 11:30 PM

My suggestion have a swearing pillow beside you MILR... because come E3 Killzone 2 debut. If it isnt what you wanted, I expect youre going to need that pillow.

makeitlookreal

06-26-2007, 11:39 PM

"I guest it depends on your Definition of the word Match. will the characters have multi-million polygon budgets like the characters in the CGI trailer ?

NO!

But will GG make clever use on normal maps to simulate high poly characters ?

Yes!

The question has never been, "Can the developers would match the CGI?" the answer to that has always been no.

The REAL question is "Can the Developers could mimic the CGI trailer." The answer to that is, maybe."

You are completely wrong. The final game can indeed match the target render!

I don't care if a character has a million polygons or only a few thousand if it LOOKS AS GOOD to my two eye balls!

If it LOOKS AS GOOD as the target render then it has been matched.

I think that by using all kinds of tricks the game will LOOK JUST AS GOOD.

Sephiroth_VII

06-26-2007, 11:41 PM

^That's what he said.

makeitlookreal

06-26-2007, 11:43 PM

"And that's exactly why you're going to be extremely disappointed."

You will be disappointed when the game turns out to match the target render and your total negativity is exposed to everyone.

Shadow Voa

06-26-2007, 11:50 PM

"And that's exactly why you're going to be extremely disappointed."

You will be disappointed when the game turns out to match the target render and your total negativity is exposed to everyone.

At least he knows he will be able to enjoy it on his PS3. That's all that will be amounted in the end, he will play it if it looks good and be content, not bitter that his initial guesses were incorrect.

makeitlookreal

06-26-2007, 11:54 PM

I'm not going to be bitter if I'm wrong. I admit that I'm not always correct.

However, the developers of Killzone 2 have ALREADY SAID THE GAME WILL MATCH THE TARGET RENDER.

If they don't keep their word then I will indeed complain, but I will move on and look for other games that match the promises of their developers!

VG Aficionado

06-27-2007, 12:16 AM

You just don't get it. Whatever it looks like, I won't be disappointed because I'm not expecting miracles. I'm almost positive that it will look good enough to me, and that the game features will be more than decent from what we know. I am optimistic by nature, but my expectations are well grounded since I've got a good idea on what's possible on PS3, partly because I actually own one and mostly because I've played many games in my life and I know what I'm talking about.

My concern is that we're going to have to deal with your hopeless whining when you see the new games don't match your dreams. We'd like to enjoy E3 and to do so we do not want someone like you complaining about the graphics and only the graphics when we're ready to be thrilled about the games and don't want to hear diatribes on every single graphical flaw of upcoming, work in progress games. But you don't understand and/or don't even care whether we enjoy ourselves discussing things that have nothing to do with graphics, right?

Anyway, I already know explaining all this to you yet again is totally useless because you only want to believe that PS3 is miraculous when it isn't. To date, there hasn't been a game that matches your unrealistic and outrageous expectations, and the worst of all this is that you don't seem like you're able to understand why it won't happen, ever. You're always disappointed, I've got yet to see you praising a game for things other than graphics and it doesn't seem like your attitude is going to change anytime soon. I wish you could understand that your attitude annoys the hell out of us, but you only care about yourself and are never conscious that this is a community and we would appreciate that your broken record would stop spinning.

Viper

06-27-2007, 12:42 AM

*starts to speak*

*stops*

*looks at brick wall outside*

*ponders the parallels*

*speaks*

Go Killzone 2.

*avoids train wreck*

OmniCloud

06-27-2007, 01:06 AM

I hope it turns out well...Phil has kept it underwraps for so long, it's like...Dammit what are you guys doing???!!

Insomniac has showed what the can do with PS3...
Naughty Dog has showed what the can do with PS3...

GG's turn is up, and honestly, I'm pretty sure it's gonna be amazing...

False_Messiah

06-27-2007, 01:37 AM

That interview where someone from guerrila games tells that killzone will surpass E3 05 demo was a fake. A Gamefaqs user wrote it, if im not mistaken.

The game will look great, and sony is confident. Otherwise, they wouldnt date a new demonstration just after microsoft meeting.

They just have to show something that will make microsoft speechless, Crysis is not a direct rival. Put that in mind.

VG Aficionado

06-27-2007, 01:47 AM

They just have to show something that will make microsoft speechlessAnything that looks better than Halo 3 will be enough. And to be honest, it's going to be quite easy to surpass it.

makeitlookreal

06-27-2007, 01:58 AM

It will not take a miracle for Killzone 2 to match it's target render.

It will simply take a lot of money, a lot of hard work, a lot of CELL usage, and streaming from the HDD.

The PS3 has only been launched for less than one year. I find it disturbing that people are placing such severe limitations on the kind of content the PS3 can produce. So far we are seeing very good looking games that are only utilizing a portion of the PS3's power. I think games the quality of the killzone trailer are VERY possible.

Viper

06-27-2007, 02:02 AM

The Halo series never was a graphic masterpiece to start with as far as I'm concerned.

makeitlookreal

06-27-2007, 02:03 AM

Killzone 2 will easily beat Halo 3 in terms of graphics. Halo 3 does indeed look good, but it's not anything amazing.

Applefiend

06-27-2007, 02:05 AM

**** the preview movie. All I care about is how it compares to existing PS3 shooters, not some pre rendered CG that's come out of Maya.

As Mr Jaffe might say **** the CG movie right in the ***.

Recognize the trailer for what it was, advertising fluff.

Halo 1 was pretty good for the time graphically. Bungie were very aggressive about early use of shaders. Halo 1 has to rank as one of the best launch games ever.

I still think the vehicles in Halo 1 drive better than the vehicles in Resistance. Awesome bit of work. I imported an xbox just to play it, came out at midnight to get the sequel.

Fats

06-27-2007, 02:05 AM

Seriously, STFU about Graphics will you? Christ. I hope it doesn't meet the render just to spite you.

Not that I think it will reach the render, it will look pretty though.

<3frosty

06-27-2007, 02:09 AM

I want to see less shallow footage and get actual gameplay details and possibly footage of some gameplay. After the first game, color me not that interested in this game as of right now. The massive hype around this game is already palpable and has been since E3 a few years ago.

However, i dont get lost in it because i still have the original game that wasn't all that impressive. Bigger budget and better techniques arent all thats needed to fix the game i bought for the PS2. Ill be waiting to see some footage and see how many PS3 fans simply gobble up a great (though not nearly as good as the E3 trailer of a few years back) looking trailer with probably no real footage of true gameplay shown.

Here's to hoping for a demo.

Trailblazer

06-27-2007, 02:15 AM

You are completely wrong. The final game can indeed match the target render!

I don't care if a character has a million polygons or only a few thousand if it LOOKS AS GOOD to my two eye balls!

If it LOOKS AS GOOD as the target render then it has been matched.

I think that by using all kinds of tricks the game will LOOK JUST AS GOOD.

Yeah thats basically what I meant. Heres an example, do i think that Motor storm Matched the CGI? No i don't, but when i play Motorstorm, and I'm deep into a race, and there dust and mud flying everywhere, Dirt bike riders are flipping me the bird, while 8 other cars are trying to run me off the road, while
half of them explode trying, sending debris and car parts right at me, I sometimes think. "Shit this is better then the CGI trailer!"

I think the KIllzone Developers will get closer to their Target render then the Motorstorm Developers. They have a higher Budget, a larger team and even more importantly More TIME!

I think they will match the art style of the CGI trailer

At first I didn't think they would match the animations but after seeing Uncharted, It's certainly possible.

I think The Lighting will be great but not as great as the CGI.

I think The smoke and partcle effects will not quite match the CGI but will get close.

I think There will be At lest 2xAA so there will be some Jaggies

And I think The textures will not be as good as the CGI but with them streaming textures from the BD , clever shader technique's anisotropic filtering and motion blur will hide these flaws to some degree.

Basically I think there will be parts of Killzone 2 that will match the CGI, some things that will fall short, and some things that will exceed the CGI.

I just want the game play to be ground braking and for there to be Plenty of Home trophies. :devious:

Viper

06-27-2007, 02:18 AM

Trailblazer

06-27-2007, 02:32 AM

The complexity and draw distance keeping solid AF and complexity were the real set backs to keeping it from looking in game. Those are the two parts I think they'll have the most trouble with matching.

I bold the parts that i don't think they will have a problem matching, but cause Resistance has those things in spades, and I would argue dose them better then any console game to date. But anisotropic filtering? Yeah that one of those post processing techniques that really eat up fill rates. thats will be a hard one to match.

Viper

06-27-2007, 02:35 AM

<3frosty

06-27-2007, 02:40 AM

Viper

06-27-2007, 02:42 AM

To the trailer? Go to gametrailers.com

Trailblazer

06-27-2007, 02:57 AM

RFOM does not come close to the complexity or draw distance shown in that trailer. Watch it again. It's insane. And the AF is stunning as well as the complexity in the draw distance doesn't waver at all. Miles away everything still looks crisp and well defined.

Yeah I have watched it and I've played through Resistance about 5 times now, and that was why I said what i said in the first place. I would actually say the Resistance surpasses the Killzone CGI in the areas of Geometric complexity and draw distance. Mostly in the later levels.
Also in the Killzone CGI you never see more the 8 characters on screen at the same time. Again In this area Resistance > Killzone CGI.

but overall :Killzone CGI>>>>>>>>>>> Resistance Game play
maybe overall : Killzone CGI>>>Killzone Game play

masonite

06-27-2007, 08:57 AM

E3 at the MILR household...

*Killzone 2 direct feed trailer avaliable*
*trailer loading*
*trailer loading*
*trailer loaded*

*game has unparallelled physics, paper blowing in the wind makes porra sturvat look like super mario 1*

*game has incredible story, written and directed by spielberg, who refused to work on E.T 2 so he could do this*

*A.I in development for 5 years, co-developed by defence force, enemies even piss properly, and have philosophical, unscripted conversations with each other on the origin of religion*

*textures on flocks of birds flying past not that great* (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/mgg7077/Animated%20Gifs/HeadSmash.gif)

Viper

06-27-2007, 08:43 PM

PUNK em 733

06-28-2007, 01:38 AM

No, I'm not going to have a meltdown.

I already expect the game to match the target render.

You are nuts man, you really should be committed!

makeitlookreal

06-28-2007, 12:20 PM

But I'm a nut with freedom of speech. :-)

I think Killzone is going to be awesome. I can't wait until E3!

GTAce

06-28-2007, 04:21 PM

milr PLEASE expect a awesome game that will rule and blow away all of us BUT dont expect the target render PLEASE do me the favour. 8(

VG Aficionado

06-28-2007, 04:30 PM

yoshaw

06-28-2007, 06:52 PM

But I'm a nut with freedom of speech. :-)

No offense. But FOS shouldn't mean you get the freedom to lose a brain in the process.

Viper

06-28-2007, 07:13 PM

Basically, MILR, we're all just concerned about you. We don't want you to go all Virginia Tech on us if the frame rate drops below 60 fps or if a model has a few polys short of a million.

Shadow Voa

06-28-2007, 09:51 PM

He seems to forget that a Killzone tech video was shown three months ago and the press didn't think it looked as good as the prerendered trailer. The game isn't suddenly going to improve enough to match the 2005 trailer from March to July. In fact, it never will... but he just can't understand it.

Get ready to use the ignore list, fellows. Don't let the delusions and ridiculous complaints ruin E3 for you.

Way ahead of you VG, I wouldnt let his complaints ruin E3 for me and I assume most wouldnt want that either. MILR seriously have a backup plan for disappointment man... cause I have a feeling its on its way for you.

curryking1

06-29-2007, 01:13 AM

I'm hoping for the best too. What else would there be to hope for? lol.

Come on KZ, be great for the success of our favourite console (of some of us) in the Playstation 3, but more importantly, be great so we can all enjoy it because we love KZ!

CreativeWriter

06-29-2007, 08:26 AM

Watching the Lair trailers today and comparing them to even the first Lair teaser released on PSN, it's clear that the early vids were almost 100% CGI. As far as I'm concerned that should stop. Show me concept art, stills, in-engine scripting (like MGS4). That'll be enough to get me hyped using my imagination (see Star Wars: Force Unleashed), but CGI that can reasonably be mistaken for gameplay has got to go. Even cut-scene FMV is misleading.

Looking back on E3 05, it was almost impossible for any of those vids to be real-time. It's amazing that Insomniac had anything to show with the non-finalized hardware. Back then everyone thought I8 looked terrible, but that's because it was the only realtime stuff there. Fight Night, Motorstorm, etc... none of the finished products have come even close to the CGI trailers. I'm sure if we waited another 2 years on Killzone we'd get something close, but it's a pipe dream to hope that a "2nd gen" PS3 game will match those CGI vids now that we've seen the "only very good looking" 1st gen games. Forget the Killzone CGI trailer. Just hope for a good looking game...

gibmonster

06-29-2007, 09:00 AM

What I'm hoping for is that the game will match the chaotic war atmosphere shown in the CGI trailer. No matter how the graphics turn out. I'm sure it will still be a steller looking title and a bloody awesome game to play. But the atmosphere, art direction and character interactions are more important than the technical asthetics..which will be excellent given how far we are into the lifecycle of next gen consoles.

makeitlookreal

06-29-2007, 03:33 PM

I will never forget the Killzone trailer.

It's something the developers said they will match and I want to know if they will keep their word.

curryking1

06-29-2007, 08:42 PM

MILR, for the last effing time.

It's not going to look (entirely) like that trailer. No. Read that.

You're pro freedom of speech? You should also excercise the freedom to read other people's posts. Freedom of speech isn't completely free btw. Racist remarks are not allowed.

But what really ticks me off is that you think you can say all these things, but you don't have to listen to what anyone else has to say. Why should anyone have to suffer reading your posts if you don't read ours? And if you do read anyone else's posts, you're clearly not paying any attention to what they say. If I were a mod I would be considering a temporary ban for that kind of behaviour if I could assume you weren't mentally ill or a child or something.

VG already said people have already seen a demo of the game and it's not the visual goliath that the FMV trailer is, not by a longshot. And it may improve and look solid for what next gen actually is, but no improvement will make it hit that trailer.

Eeennnnn. Oooooooo. Nooooooooo. It spells the word 'No.' Not going to look like the trailer. That's f-i-n-a-l. Final.

And for fuck's sake. You're ruining any realistic or mildly entertaining discussion we can have about the game. FUCK! Seriously, stop!

saberus

06-29-2007, 09:16 PM

It was not a demo of KZ2, it was a demo of a new engine they were showing based on some KZ2 assets, least that is what Phil.H said. Also he asked every to please do not base the game on what they are seeing.

So I have good feeling that its going to be a great looking game at least. Will it look as good as the trailer?? no, but I'm shure it will catch the excitement of it.

<3frosty

06-29-2007, 09:19 PM

What's that you say? Someone just went shit crazy?

Passive

06-29-2007, 10:43 PM

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/8553/untitledza8.jpg

makeitlookreal

06-30-2007, 12:08 AM

Racists remarks are not allowed in this forum, but racist remarks are indeed a part of free speech.

Anyway, I don't expect this game to look exactly like the trailer!

I've said this TEN TIMES!

I expect it to match the trailer. I do NOT expect it to look just like the trailer.

I think it will look different, but the actual "quality" will be matched.

No, it will not have the same level of antialiasing, but through tons of tricks it will look just as good and will be MATCHED.

VG Aficionado

06-30-2007, 03:56 AM

If only that made any sense...

It won't be matched, no matter how you want to understand the word "matched". We all understand it but you.

Not only this is a waste of time, but we are feeling you are going to ruin all the E3 threads.

makeitlookreal

06-30-2007, 01:52 PM

It makes perfect sense. It will be matched.

VG Aficionado

06-30-2007, 03:17 PM

Perfect sense in your dreams, that is.

Applefiend

06-30-2007, 04:19 PM

Any chance this thread could be about something other than that 2 year oid advertising puff trailer and MILR.....? :)

curryking1

06-30-2007, 05:22 PM

We can start now! What's your favourite gun in multiplayer? Which do you think is the most effective/good for killing regardless of being cheap? Which one is your least favourite? Which one looks the coolest? Which one is the best for blowing people up? Ok, that's enough questions for one post lol.

Mine is, in the order of those questions, ISA rifle, grenade launching pistol thing, can't remember least favourite, Helghast AR or ISA sniper or ISA rifle or rocket launcher, and grenades.

Jay Gee

06-30-2007, 09:29 PM

The Pup (grenade pistol) in the KZ beta was broken so they toned it down to mediocrity in the final version. My favorite gun in multiplayer is the ISA Shotgun. The ISA AR is the most effective weapon because of 203s, period. My least favorite weapon is the Pup. Best boom weapon would be the Helghast Hydra, ISA AR 203s, and the Tank Buster.

makeitlookreal

06-30-2007, 11:31 PM

I like sniping in games.

Fats

06-30-2007, 11:34 PM

MILR, you wouldn't be posting such short, simplistic posts just to get your signature around now would you?

curryking1

07-01-2007, 05:31 AM

My god! I forgot the shotgun! It's been so long since I've played a round of KZ. Perfect close quarters weapon, and damn sexy looking if I may say so myself lol.

Any realistic expectations for the game at least? Any guesses on where the trailer/preview/demo will take place?

I'm guessing they'll show a firefight in a Helghan slum to show off those lighting effects that were talked about before. In the demo from GDC or wherever it was, maybe SGD, they also mentioned a tank running over and breaking stuff... I hope we get a real variety in gameplay environments and scenarios. There damn well better be a crap load of KZ stuff! It's been over 2 freaking years! TWO YEARS DAMMIT! I NEED MY KZ FIX ASAP!

Anyways, I'm expecting/hoping for a ton of destruction. Lots of sparks everywhere, subtle smoke effects for firefights, larger and dense smoke hazes for larger explosions, lots of debris and material flying through the air, dropping on the ground, stuff falling over, breaking etc etc, lots of dust seen in light rays, anything 'explodey' and action movie-ish. :)

VG Aficionado

07-01-2007, 12:06 PM

There will be highly destructible environments. The tech video reports mentioned that a Helghast took cover behind a wall or something and the player kept on shooting it until it was torn apart enough to make it useless for cover. The explosions and environments were said to be big as well.

antuk15

07-01-2007, 01:33 PM

Its all in the lighting, and from what ive read about the games lighting engine it looks like the lighting element of the CGI trailer will be exceeded in the final game. Not to mension PS3 can tick off another HDR+AA title.

:worthy:

makeitlookreal

07-01-2007, 01:57 PM

If Killzone 2 can borrow Heavenly Sword's skin shaders and combine that with their new lighting system that would rock.

curryking1

07-01-2007, 05:28 PM

I don't think so. I'm think Guerilla will have a formula for themselves that will be great for skin.

And you can't just borrow the skin shaders from one game and transplant them into another. And maybe resources are being used elsewhere for this and that and they have to use quality here and there rather than there or here etc etc etc. These comments baffle me, they are just so absurd. They're definitely taking their engine and making the best of it they can, and maybe it can have as good quality or better for whatever than whatever.

HS' skin shaders aren't that great in gameplay anyways, the game is supposedly going to have tons of people on screen. Her arm is just white, I didn't see much definition or detail on her arm during gameplay. I'm sure you mean the cutscene shaders.

But even still, I think Guerilla has some quality for the graphics up their sleeves to be better than HS overall in my opinion, accounting for the differences in style and scale and yada yada yada.