PS3 now outselling 360 in all regions

[Lost|Identity]

The title says it all, according to data on VGchartz PS3 is now outselling the 360 in all regions... guess that $499 price tag got it done :P

http://www.vgchartz.com/japweekly.php#hard
http://www.vgchartz.com/aweekly.php#hard
http://www.vgchartz.com/eweekly.php

Good luck catching Wii Sony.... Until 2009 that is ;)

Don't get too excited Sony fans, it's not by much of a margin

(if there is already a post of this just lock and chastise me ;) )

[masteratt]

Viper how long until PS3 beats X360 overall?

[Viper]

I too saw this. Expected for the first week of a price cut in the US. Obvious in Japan. Why the switch in Europe is the interesting one though.

Sustainability is what any price drop hopes for so which for variations from this week to next.


This reminds me, I need to update my charts too.

EDit:

Masterrat, to be honest, on average weeks, the X360 outsells it globally so it won't at what has been the average pace. If this price drop sales rate would hold steady, it still won't. It only out gained the X360 by 20,000 units WW. PS3 is behind by almost 7 million.

Did the math...6.7 years if the rates were constant from this point on.

[Phoenix]

Yep, looks like the price drop did the trick. Hopefully (for them) it makes up for the 100 dollars per unit they aren't getting.Good luck catching Wii SonyThey'll need it, that's for sure. There's no sign of slowing down now. Plus it's still half the price.

[Lost|Identity]

LOL Viper, I really didn't even think of it that way, I am just going to wait till next week and see what happens, then I might have a bit of an opinion on what this means.

[Viper]

Consider it a first step in the right direction for PS3. If Sony can sustain the level, even better. If they can increase this shift, THAT's what they are looking for.

[Coded-Dude]

One more price drop with their newer sku(larger drive, rumble, etc.) and some games - and things will most certainly increase. I expect a noticeable shift to start next year that will continue all the into '09.

[Viper]

Let's not forget MS may have shot themselves in the foot.

[Coded-Dude]

“The introduction of the 80GB PS3, the new pricing for the current 60GB model, the availability of more than 100 new software titles this fiscal year and, finally, the expansion of services for PLAYSTATION Network, will provide even more options for users and will help bring new consumers into the PS3 fold.” + the MS blunder will mean a lot of different things in the next year or two.

[VG Aficionado]

Sony has been on a roll lately and things look like they're still going to improve even more while Microsoft has stumbled quite a lot meanwhile, so that's expected for some time, I guess.

By the way, this reminds me of an article I read a few days ago regarding PS3 sales in Spain and Portugal. The PS3 installed base since the March launch is already bigger than 360's base since it launched back in November 2005. Not too shabby for the most expensive system on the market which still hasn't gotten many of the first great games.

[Viper]

It's not passed it in Spain yet but it's real close now.

PS3 - 142k
X360 - 166k

Gaining about 2,500 per week. 9.6 weeks away and it will pass it.

I do believe it did pass it in Portugal but I don't have any numbers for it.

[VG Aficionado]

What's your source for Spain?

[Viper]

You can see it right there on VGCharts. ChartTrack, retailers and publishers provide the numbers.

[VG Aficionado]

http://www.noticias.info/asp/aspComunicados.asp?nid=300511&src=0


“En sólo tres meses desde su lanzamiento, PLAYSTATION 3 se ha consolidado como el sistema de entretenimiento de nueva generación por excelencia al superar las 216.000 unidades vendidas en Iberia, de las cuales 194.000 corresponden a España”, declaraba James Armstrong, Vicepresidente Senior del Sur de Europa y Consejero Delegado de Sony Computer Entertainment Europe para España y Portugal. Según Armstrong, “en este período, PLAYSTATION 3 ha superado ya en ventas en nuestro país a Xbox 360 que salió en 2005."

“In just three months since its launch, PLAYSTATION 3 has become the favorite next generation entertainment system by surpassing 216k sold units in Iberia (Spain and Portugal), 194k of which belong to Spain", said James Armstrong, Senior Vicepresident of Southern Europe and managing director of SCEE for Spain and Portugal. According Armstrong, "In this period, PLAYSTATION 3 has surpassed X360 sales in our country already, which launched in 2005".

Note the word "sold". Whether it really is sold to consumers or shipped to retailers, that beats me.

[Hisham]

The thing is, aren't they planning to phaze out the 60 GB unit by the end of this year? Then again they have one system at $599 unless they drop the price once the 60 GB is phased out.

Anyways, we'll see in the long run, once the bigger games come out for the PS3, we may see them outselling the 360 like crazy.

But I still don't see a massive shift untill 2009 maybe.

[Viper]

VG, any PR piece you hear is shipped. No matter which console it's for.

[VG Aficionado]

The thing is, aren't they planning to phaze out the 60 GB unit by the end of this year? Then again they have one system at $599 unless they drop the price once the 60 GB is phased out.There's no $599 system to begin with. Right now, the US has the $499 barebones 60 GB system and a $599 limited edition bundle containing a 80 GB system + MotorStorm will be released in August. Since both SKUs are going to be quite limited in number, one might assume it's likely Sony will release a barebones 80 GB system that will replace the current barebones 60 GB SKU when the stock is gone.

Europe will soon have no barebones 599 € PS3 anymore. All SKUs will be bundles, and the most expensive one (which still keeps the stigmatic price though) will contain two games and two controllers. I bet they'll start selling a 500 € barebones 80 GB system once the 60 GB stock decreases significantly, and that should happen by the end of this year as well.

I say that, by November this year, we'll see a SKU consisting in a 80 GB PS3 + rumble/touchsense enabled controller at $499 or 499 €. New bundles will probably be in order as well.

Anyways, we'll see in the long run, once the bigger games come out for the PS3, we may see them outselling the 360 like crazy.

But I still don't see a massive shift untill 2009 maybe.Yeah, I can see PS3 doing a progressive serious catch-up in the next couple years, but it's going to require a further price cut and more games. The $399 price cut should most definately happen sometime next year, and the good games should be releasing on a quite steady basis starting this fall.

[Hisham]

Ahh, that makes more sense as a pricing strategy. Thanks for clearing that up VG.

[IEatFriedPikmin]

of course its going to pass in sales... but it could be temporary. The price drop hasn't even been around for a month yet.

I tend to look at history when it comes to things like this. When the Gamecube had a price drop making the system only $100, sales shot through the roof... but we all know it still really didn't help sales after a few months.

[frosty]

My personal opinion is that once the 60Gb's are gone, the 80 will go bare bones and sell for $500, and a new rumble equipped unit will replace it (possibly with a bigger HDD and/or a game bundled) for $599. However they may go out on a limb and listen to the public (which they seem to have been doing very, very good at lately) and lose the $599 stigma, and drop the 80Gb to $450'ish and retail the new rumble unit at $499-$550. I make this assumption based on the reports from a while back that they plan on dropping to the 65nm process for Cell (and maybe even RSX) sometime this year which will save them even more money on component costs. They seem to be doing a good job of reducing the cost per unit, so we'll have to wait and see exactly how bold of a move they plan on making.

I do know this much, Sony wants to capture the Christmas market from MS. I don't think they are too worried about Nintendo, seing as that unit caters to a totally different market and really isn't in direct competition with PS3 (Not to mention that over half a year later, Ninty STILL can't get enough units on the shelf). It's Microsoft that they are worried about, and I feel Sony is going to use their recent popularity gain and some price cuts, as well as MS's recent blunders, to try to overtake the 360 in holiday sales by a large margin. We'll have to wait and see. It's going to be a very interesting holiday season indeed.

[Viper]

I suspect they'll finally lose the $600.00 boil on their ass. It hasn't served them very good at that price point regardless of what's in the package. Also considered Kaz stated they don't want to have multiple SKU's anymore at all in a video interview.

Sony's done a good job of giving great value for the price but they simply must get the price itself down and if they want to avoid another major media circus, they'll leave the $600.00 brick wall behind them as soon as they can and never look back at it.

[Lost|Identity]

Well it looks like the lead is holding for a second week (the links on my first post will take you to the new numbers)

If this can hold for a third week (and really for a month) it would say a lot about a comeback for Sony, but I think it's still too early for anything definite.

[Viper]

Gaining only 20,000 per week on a 6 million unit gap isn't a comeback. That gap has to start closing much faster than that. True, it's far, far better than losing 20,000 a week like they have been.

So I think it's best to look at that way. Good new direction. Nothing more yet, nothing less.

[Lost|Identity]

I didn't say it was a comeback, I meant that if the small margin could be maintained it could mean the beginning of a larger market gain ie a comeback.

[Dakota Grabowski]

yuck, I hate VGChartz rumored numbers and made up stats. At a few other forums boards, we tend to block any links coming from that site... along with Kotaku and the like.

I won't believe any stats until NPDs, Media Create charts and the official PR. Fan made stuff is never correct but just assumptions and guesses.

[Viper]

yuck, I hate VGChartz rumored numbers and made up stats. At a few other forums boards, we tend to block any links coming from that site... along with Kotaku and the like.

I won't believe any stats until NPDs, Media Create charts and the official PR. Fan made stuff is never correct but just assumptions and guesses.

The only reason I don't mind them is because they typically fall in line with my own predictions are rarely off by more than 10% +/-.

Let's put it this way, Nintendo just announced that 9.27 million Wii's were sold as of the latest from NPD. VGChartz has an extra week of sales tabulated into their figures. According to NPD, Media Create, Chart Track, GfK and others, Wii sells ~230,000 units per week WW. Add 9.27 million plus 230,000 = 9.5 million. What does VGChartz have posted as the total? 9.49 million.

I'd say that's pretty damn good.

[Dakota Grabowski]

still I'll take hard facts over speculation.

That is why I usually don't take any rumors for anything besides what they are.

Speculation = Speculation. Just more fanboy nonsense to get people talking.

[Viper]

You do realize VGChartz gets their weekly US numbers from retailers, don't you?
It's the same thing as NPD only they don't have official contracts.

NPD gets sales from various retailers and extrapolates what they think was sold at the other retailers based on sales from those they obtained. VG does the same thing.

While true they are unofficial numbers, they are more than baseless speculation.

Nexgenwars is the one that's way off and just speculates by use of a sales timer.

[Dakota Grabowski]

estimations (or as what I'll call them: baseless speculation) are pointless for everyone besides people that work at any of the big three or publishers/devs.

VGChartz is often off with their European and Japanese #'s which is more than enough for me to write them off as another fanboy site.

The only time I'll ever use VGChartz for anything is for their guesses of how many jelly beans are in a jar so I can win a few bucks at a local charity.

[Dakota Grabowski]

Also, here is a comment from a recent interview with the owner of VGChartz

Ah, yes, the infamous vgchartz. Wait, why would arstechnica give this guy a soapbox if Brett is unwilling to provide his full name? You call this journalism?

Seems to me that GfK, NPD, Charttrack and Entebrain have a right to be upset since he was using their numbers out of the gate and only recently changed his site to avoid further legal troubles.

"Brett" is quick to point out in one breath that his site is merely a fan site and shouldn't be taken seriously but in another breath he will quickly note how valuable his numbers are to the industry, how other data providers shouldn't be taken seriously because they are no better than his numbers, and so on. So, which side of the fence is Brett standing on today?

The legitimate data providers all get their numbers directly from retailers and in some cases marry those numbers with information provided from publishers, consumers and/or manufacturers. "Brett" claims to have a sophisticated model that brings him within reasonable target of actual sales. However, by my calculations, he's regularly off by 20% or more (and 20% is on a good day for him).

He claims other data providers numbers are no better than his, yet he uses the numbers from these data providers as a benchmark? I'm confused.

Brett, all eyes are on you. If you want to play in this game, you'd better be ready to step out from behind your curtain and provide detailed analyses to back your numbers.

There are several cases, such as when he overestimated the Xbox 360 sales by 40% which is a wide margin. Guesses are nothing more than speculation. I'll stick to accurate and precise information rather than speculation.

[Viper]

Seems to me that GfK, NPD, Charttrack and Entebrain have a right to be upset since he was using their numbers out of the gate and only recently changed his site to avoid further legal troubles

There is the difference. You're knocking the old formula as was this article.


The way it is now

Unlike many other websites (which use manufacturer shipment figures and reports to estimate current console sales), VG Chartz collects data directly from retailers all over the world. Retailer sample sizes are small compared to professional tracking services, but are large enough to provide very accurate projections of the latest console sell through figures worldwide. We are the only provider anywhere in the world of weekly American sales charts and are expanding our data collection and coverage all the time. To find out more, visit our about us and methodology pages.

[Dakota Grabowski]

Not my comment, it's another.

Anyways, VGChartz is a hot topic that has people in opposition and people for it. I won't force anyone to stop using it... just be wary ;)

[Viper]

I find nothing to be wary about. They consistently are within 15% of NPD and do even better than the monthly analysts predictions.

It's well thought out, broken down nicely and better yet, not even NPD is completely accurate and going by console maker shipment numbers is absolutely insane. Point is there are no accurate numbers. Period.

His are free, NPD charges thousands of dollars for the data and doesn't present any of it to the media directly.

[Dakota Grabowski]

sure there is a lot to be wary about. Their May reports were 40% off for the 360 last time I saw / heard.

So people need to be wary about estimations, guesses, speculations, and what not since its not cold hard evidence.

[Fats]

Dakota, I'd go with Viper on this one. He's like some statistical God.

:shifty:

[Viper]

Dakota, issues like that happen even for NPD. Just recently they had to issue a revised data for PSP as they were off by 60,000.

Also to note, how do you know they were 40% off? Are you basing that on NPD's numbers? Remember, NPD isn't accurate either.

[Dakota Grabowski]

Lol, I don't have to go with anyone 'Fats'.

Stats should always be determined by facts. Facts are things of actual existence and of course have actuality.

Speculation on the other hand is an assumption of unusual business risk in hopes of obtaining commensurate gain.

I don't like guessing games because there is no definite answer. So, if people love the idea of guessing how many pennies are in a coin jar - by all means - they can have with their games.

But VGChartz is nothing more than an irrelevant website that provides people with #'s that are of course just simple guesses -- a.k.a feeding fanboys with console war information to fight about.

Usually, I like to go to forums that avoid rabid fanboyism and usually those forums put a ban websites such as Kotaku, NextGenWars, Joystiq, VGChartz,GamerDreamz and what not from being mentioned in discussions about video games.

Here's a guess. Someone is going to reply to this post.

[<3frosty]

Dakota, issues like that happen even for NPD. Just recently they had to issue a revised data for PSP as they were off by 60,000.

Also to note, how do you know they were 40% off? Are you basing that on NPD's numbers? Remember, NPD isn't accurate either.

Im with Viper on this. :thumbl:

They all estimate, and they all make mistakes.

[Lost|Identity]

Stats should always be determined by facts. Facts are things of actual existence and of course have actuality.

Speculation on the other hand is an assumption of unusual business risk in hopes of obtaining commensurate gain.

Statistics as a science never has a solid factual basis, distributions (from the normal to the chi-squared) are defined as approximations, so your statement is self contradictory.

No one ever knows if the information they are getting is "Fact" with a capital F. I would never imply that these numbers have to be right down to the 1's column. I do know that the estimates that VGchartz uses are taken from data they get directly from retailers. Your arguments against this are speculation themselves. Mistakes in the realm of market prediction are ubiquitous they are bound to happen sooner or latter. I see no reason to believe that VGchartz is feeding out biased data or is blatantly wrong.

I have a question for you. What does it mean for something to be just basing numbers on speculation? Speculation is unavoidable. VGchartz uses numbers they get from retail sources and this will at some time mean they make mistakes, but so does the NPD (and so does Meryl Lynch for a little perspective), no one can get all the information and get that absolutely objective perspective that you seem to be craving (and maybe saying you have).

Your argument against VGchartz seems to hinge on the idea that the information they are giving is false, or wrong, so when the NPD comes out and these numbers are close, shouldn't that disprove your point?

Here's a guess. Someone is going to reply to this post.

God I hate that cocky little remark, of course someone will reply, you've posted in a "discussion", please be respectful when doing so.

If you reply to this with something akin to "Your making this a bigger deal than I was" then I think I'll just take that as a "you win" ;).

[Dakota Grabowski]

lol are you kidding me? Go find another soapbox to preach on. I am not hearing it.

Dr. Oxford, who happens to be the most successful and influential English language dictionary
http://www.ritter.org.uk/Graphics/ODWE_dj.jpg
*wink* *awinkiedink*

"A single piece of information capable of exact numerical representation, such as the arithmetic mean of a sample."

Once again, I'll take an exact 'science' over some speculation. Nothing about my post is speculation. It's a fact that they estimate and I'll have nothing to do with estimations and guesses.

I am guessing you want to "win", so you can continue to debate about something you have no idea works. VGChartz has never revealed their sources and must to be ever be considered a viable option for a source themselves. One may argue about the NPD, but I see more NPD information in official press releases than I have VGC. Matter of fact, I don't think I have saw anyone quote VGC, within the pub/dev side of things, besides one or two select.

[Lost|Identity]

So I guess we just have a philosophical disagreement on this, and I'm fine with that. I definitely have disagreements with many Webster definitions, but that definition doesn't' really contradict anything I posted, exact numerical representation is in no way absolute. I was not trying to attack you directly, only defending my own perspective.

When the next NPD comes out I guess this will be more then speculation in your opinion so I'll just wait till then to continue a discussion with you.

[Viper]

Once again, I'll take an exact 'science' over some speculation. Nothing about my post is speculation. It's a fact that they estimate and I'll have nothing to do with estimations and guesses.

Lmao, Dakota, NPD estimates half the sales. You do know this, don't you? Walmart is the largest seller of video game products but it does not provide NPD with sales data. That relation ship was several 5 years ago. Now NPD just estimates what they think Wal Mart sold.

NPD is far from exact and that's the problem you have with VGChartz. You're knocking VGChartz for the exact same thing NPD does.


Of course they can't reveal their sources. NPD's contracts with all the retailers forbids it so it must remain anonymous. Granted, that does tarnish their credibility but they make up for it with numbers that are close enough to NPD, Media Create, GfK, Chart Track and the publishers themselves to warrant some validity.

Analysts (Meryll Lynch, Webush, DFC Intelligence, The Yankee Group, Strategy Analytics, Kagan Research, Piper Jaffray, Citigroup, UBS, Friedman Billings Ramsey, In-Stat, IDG, American Technology Research, Nomura Securities, Enterbrain / Famitsu, SFG Research, Screen Digest, did I forget anyone?) all estimate. They all take samples and extrapolate from those samples the figures they present. Just like NPD. Just like VGChartz.

So there you have it.

[<3frosty]

Lmao, Dakota, NPD estimates half the sales. You do know this, don't you? Walmart is the largest seller of video game products but it does not provide NPD with sales data. That relation ship was several 5 years ago. Now NPD just estimates what they think Wal Mart sold.

NPD is far from exact and that's the problem you have with VGChartz. You're knocking VGChartz for the exact same thing NPD does.


Of course they can't reveal their sources. NPD's contracts with all the retailers forbids it so it must remain anonymous. Granted, that does tarnish their credibility but they make up for it with numbers that are close enough to NPD, Media Create, GfK, Chart Track and the publishers themselves to warrant some validity.

Analysts (Meryll Lynch, Webush, DFC Intelligence, The Yankee Group, Strategy Analytics, Kagan Research, Piper Jaffray, Citigroup, UBS, Friedman Billings Ramsey, In-Stat, IDG, American Technology Research, Nomura Securities, Enterbrain / Famitsu, SFG Research, Screen Digest, did I forget anyone?) all estimate. They all take samples and extrapolate from those samples the figures they present. Just like NPD. Just like VGChartz.

So there you have it.

But NPD is used in the media outlets and by video game companies. They HAVE to be superior. :roll:

[Dakota Grabowski]

If I am 'forced' to take on estimation, I'll be rolling with the NPD -- that's where the discussion ends for me.

NPD is more reliable, respected, reputable and among the gaming community. I'll stick with them if I ever have to report numbers based on speculation.

VGChartz on the other hand doesn't have a good reputation, is banned at a few of the top forums from even being mentioned, is laughed at by hardcore analysts, and is even compared to NextGenWars -- aka not a good thing.

When Sony, Nintendo, EA, Microsoft, Konami, Activision, Ubisoft and even say SEGA start using VGChartz information, then I'll start listening. Until then, there is no discussion.

[Coded-Dude]

I laugh at hardcore analysts.........all the companies you mentioned use their own numbers for their own products.
(why would they need NPD when they know how many units they sold)

Anywho, this thread is derailed.

[the boney king of nowhere.]

this thread is intense.

[Dakota Grabowski]

I laugh at hardcore analysts.........all the companies you mentioned use their own numbers for their own products.
(why would they need NPD when they know how many units they sold)

Anywho, this thread is derailed.

um... your guess is as good as mine but the fact remains they do use NPD numbers almost every month with their Press releases.


According to NPD, three of the top 10 games in June were Xbox 360 games or exclusives, including “Forza Motorsport 2” (MGS), “Guitar Hero II” (Activision) and “The Darkness” (2K Games). This marks 22 appearances for third-party titles on Xbox 360 to break the monthly top 10 best-selling games list in the past 9 months. Third party games continue to thrive with half of all retail spending taking place on Xbox 360. -Microsoft Press Release July 25th, 2007

Do I have to find more proof or is that good enough since it regards news released today.

[Coded-Dude]

okay.......a company talking about third party games would have to use NPD(unless that third party company released figures before NPD), but for their own hardware and software; NPD is basically worthless.

[Dakota Grabowski]

that rests my case... devs/pubs use them.

[Coded-Dude]

wow.......yes and no. You talk as if it is the bible for every company for every product.
They would OBVIOUSLY use them for third party, wtf else are they gonna use.

Who needs weekly reports when your making quarterly announcements? (thats just more math) :wtf:
If they came out and said, we use NPD monthly announcements because the other guy is just not accurate, I would concede....but that just isn't the case.

[woundingchaney]

NPD is the most widely used stat tracking within the industry (AFAIK) and Im sure is probably slightly more efficient reliable than VG charts but we are splitting hairs here guys. Both tracking statistics should be acceptable given the relevant information and the discussion being based on it, with a recent price drop and additional media attention I dont doubt at all that the PS3 is currently outselling the 360.

[Dakota Grabowski]

I wouldn't want you to concede because I am not questioning your faith in one or the other.

I am just stating that there's no way I will ever use VGChartz because right now I would rather follow the standard of what the pubs and devs prefer: NPD.