80GB PS3s dont have Emotion Chips so... [Archive]

OG_Monkey

08-08-2007, 10:36 PM

just what does that mean for the quality of playing old games? Is it gonna be like the xbox 360 now and not all PS2 games will be playable and everyone who purchases this and later models will have to wait for software updates or do they still work?

I read the 1up article saying, "the thing that made backwards compatibility for the PS3 almost near-perfect is now removed". Near perfect, meaning there were still some qwinks. Now that its gone it'll be worse now?

Anyone who buys this model lemme know how it is please

qzak

08-08-2007, 10:41 PM

Errr... 1UP sucks, and is prone to inflammatory statements for the sake of being inflammatory. No offense, but don't use them for news.

Anyway, just ask anyone with a PAL PS3. They don't have the EE either, and there's very few complaints.

Gegenki

08-08-2007, 10:43 PM

Americans jeez :whogives:

No seriously, I have a Euro Ps3. Its fine. Admitedly I don't play loads of PS2 games but I haven't shoved any in that haven't worked, and I haven't heard of people saying the backwards compat on euro consoles is bad.
The only problem I know of is metal gear solid 2 crashing for me.
You guys worry too much

OG_Monkey

08-08-2007, 10:47 PM

i wont be playing PS1 games just PS2, so basically it really doesnt matter that its being taken out and shouldnt bug out at all.

Nice to know it really doesnt make a difference

masteratt

08-08-2007, 10:48 PM

Sony has a guideline that developers (most of them) follow when they are working on a PlayStation so that makes it easier for Sony to emulate games via the PS3.

And 1Up...Seriously- You are better off asking a hobo about gaming news.

zero 7

08-08-2007, 11:02 PM

just got a uk ps3 sold my jap one own 50 ps1 games and 30 ps2 games only 7 don't work

Fats

08-08-2007, 11:06 PM

I've been playing quite a few PS2 games on my Euro PS3 and all of them have worked.

Coded-Dude

08-08-2007, 11:06 PM

:whogives:

OG_Monkey

08-08-2007, 11:10 PM

Viper

08-08-2007, 11:18 PM

lmao, guess ill be avoiding that site now

Unless it's good news about the PS3, then it's OK to source them.

Right guys?

LaLiLuLeLo

08-08-2007, 11:19 PM

hahahhah...zoinks!

TrueVCU

08-08-2007, 11:22 PM

So we've established this has no impact on PS2 compatibility. What about PS1? When I do eventually acquire the new Black Box I'd like to still be able to go back and enjoy FFVIII and MGS.

Sephiroth_VII

08-08-2007, 11:30 PM

The PSX chip is still in there. In fact, it's an integral part of the PS3 architecture, and therefore, it can't be removed.

Fats

08-08-2007, 11:30 PM

Apparently there's a higher compatibility rate with PS1 games than PS2 games.

Seph beat me to it.

qzak

08-08-2007, 11:33 PM

So we've established this has no impact on PS2 compatibility. What about PS1? When I do eventually acquire the new Black Box I'd like to still be able to go back and enjoy FFVIII and MGS.

Remember that even the later models of the PS2 had software emulation for PS1 games. Meaning itt should be pretty good.

masteratt

08-08-2007, 11:33 PM

Unless it's good news about the PS3, then it's OK to source them.

Right guys?
Wrong.

Was it you or Lali who said linking to 1UP will get you banned or something (maybe it was receive a warning)?
That is a very good plan.

Viper

08-08-2007, 11:33 PM

So we've established this has no impact on PS2 compatibility.
There is an impact it just isn't felt as badly as some expected given how emulation of Xbox games on X360 have gone.

Emulation does have benefits in that it can take advantage of PS3 hardware more so than having dedicated chips.

Masteratt, I was being sarcastic. It seems like any site that reports bad news gets scoffed at with claims of them being stupid and biased until that very same site reports something positive and no one says shit about it.

Coded-Dude

08-08-2007, 11:34 PM

okay people......THESE ARE THE FACTS.
(as I know them to be) ;-]

EE is being removed, causing a limited number of titles to lose compatibility.
GS is still in there and probably won't get taken out for a while(if at all).
Most PS2 B/C is done via software already, so you won't notice any differences.

PS1 is and always has been 100% software emulation, so there is no(and never will be) impact on its backwards compatibility. 100% is where it is and is where it will stay.

There are a list of titles that have "issues" with software emulation, but most of the issues revolve around titles that weren't major hits. Most(if not all) Greatest Hits games and most all other major selling titles work just fine.

xbdestroya

08-08-2007, 11:36 PM

There will likely be a list of compatible titles, as there is for the European console. Anyway, even if not - just refer there for a basic idea. The vast majority of titles will be compatible; it's a *lot* more fleshed out than the 360:XBox list.

Anyway besides 1Up's spastic coverage, truthfully from Day 1 (even before that) we knew that software emulation was the future of this console.

PS - Also, everything Coded said. :smoke:

(With the EE removal, the old RDRAM was removed as well)

Syncere Styles

08-08-2007, 11:49 PM

How xactly does software emulation work in the PS3 anywayz?

LaLiLuLeLo

08-08-2007, 11:49 PM

With Alchemy. How else?

Shadow Voa

08-08-2007, 11:57 PM

OmniCloud

08-09-2007, 12:09 AM

Which reminds me, does anyone know if there has been any updates that make PSone games play better on the PS3?

I keep playing Chrono Cross which constantly keeps freezing at the shittiest times while I play. :(OMG!!! I thought I was the only one!!!

lol...happens to me with FF7 as well...

I'm hoping they just get released on the store...don't feel like trying my luck on Ebay...

Gegenki

08-09-2007, 12:10 AM

^ reminds me of metal gear solid 2
I played the prologue and it crashed as the video started. I hoped it was a 1 off and played again, got past it. Got to the roof with raiden. Thought, hey let me just run round here before I save it and turn off.... oh dear
The american playstation site says no major problems :(
Is there a Euro compat list? IT would answer alot, if not all questions

KRA

08-09-2007, 12:12 AM

latest ratchet and PES5 plays like shit on my euro ps3.

Shadow Voa

08-09-2007, 12:30 AM

Lol Omni, man do you know how frustrating it is to have beaten Dario twice and have it freeze up on you? The hardest boss in the game Ive had to fight twice now because of freezing!!!

Sephiroth_VII

08-09-2007, 12:46 AM

I must admit that I've given up on playing the legitimate version I bought online, since the PS3 emulator is too unstable. I'm playing an ISO on my PC now, on a FAN MADE EMULATOR, and it runs perfectly. This is embarrassing for Sony, IMHO.

curryking1

08-09-2007, 12:56 AM

This is why you play on your emulator!

I'm sure if you start up Linux on your PS3s and install PSX 1.12 (a fan made emulator for OS' like Windows and Linux, maybe 1.13 now? just extract it) you could run basically any PS1 game you want flawlessly with the program.

But ya, it's a lot less convenient than just putting it in your PS3 drive.... that really sucks that it's not properly figured out yet....

O well! I'll just continue to use my PC to play PS1 games, but still, that's really disappointing that the games aren't running properly. And FF VII as well? That's not cool....

Edit - AND CC ALSO! WTF! Those are the two games I play the most! What the hell is that!

AC!D

08-09-2007, 01:06 AM

Well guys heres the compatability list they gave us for pal territories so the same should theoretically apply to u guys in the States at least until the next update if there are ever gonna be any.

http://faq.eu.playstation.com/bc/

Why don't u guys just keep your PS2 i mean essentially it just means less wear and tear for your PS3, or just get a new one if u sold it off they are really cheap and wiill only get cheaper.

VG Aficionado

08-09-2007, 01:20 AM

I tested several PS1 and PS2 games on my PAL PS3 (without EE as well) and they all work fine. If you can use a USB adapter for your Dual Shock 2, you can even have rumble. PS3's backwards compatibility is well beyond 360's lousy BC, so don't worry about it too much.

mokmok

08-09-2007, 03:37 AM

How can the EE be "removed" without the GS, aren't they on the same chip? Or is the EE just disabled?

Anyway, why is the GS still required if the emulation is all software?

Viper

08-09-2007, 03:39 AM

I thought the GS was removed a long time ago.

seahorse

08-09-2007, 03:52 AM

silent hill 2 doesn't work so i'm never buying a playstation 3.

LaLiLuLeLo

08-09-2007, 03:58 AM

That's lame. I mean, you could just keep your PS2. Gamestop/EB is only gonna give you beans back for it anyway.

curryking1

08-09-2007, 04:03 AM

And 1Up...Seriously- You are better off asking a hobo about gaming news.

Please remind me to rep you for this! Hahahah!!!

VG Aficionado

08-09-2007, 10:44 AM

:lol:

And some still think 1crap and EGM are reliable...

silent hill 2 doesn't work so i'm never buying a playstation 3.Are you sure it doesn't work even on the current 60 GB version sold in the US with a price cut? Anyway, that BC list site is not up to date, as they keep on improving the software emulation all the time. If SH2 doesn't work now through software emulation, chances are that it will in the next few weeks.

dork

08-09-2007, 10:49 AM

i'm pretty sure seawhore was kidding.

VG Aficionado

08-09-2007, 10:58 AM

Probably yes, but I've heard so many ridiculous complaints (not from him though) that sometimes one has to wonder :shrug:

seahorse

08-09-2007, 12:07 PM

yeah i was kidding. i'll get a ps3 when i finish uni.

dork

08-09-2007, 12:07 PM

excellent. i'm buying.

Passive

08-09-2007, 12:18 PM

How xactly does software emulation work in the PS3 anywayz?

Magic ;)

Derrick Barra

08-09-2007, 01:02 PM

:lol:

And some still think 1crap and EGM are reliable...

Sorry guys, not trying to ruin the thread, but could somebody please send me a PM with some of the stuff that makes everybody say EGM/1up is unreliable? (Links Please?) I feel left out since I really like those guys and I want to see what all the hubalub is about. Thanks!

Anyways I wouldn't question telling my friends to buy the 80gb PS3 since the backwards compatibility is of higher quality than the 360's (which really doesn't have good backwards compatibility IMHO).

Sephiroth_VII

08-09-2007, 01:49 PM

I thought the GS was removed a long time ago.

From what I understand it serves as "South Bridge" for the PS3. I could be wrong though, since it's been a long time since we discussed it.

Leedogg

08-09-2007, 03:37 PM

From what I understand it serves as "South Bridge" for the PS3. I could be wrong though, since it's been a long time since we discussed it.

yea that and the Cell processor can't emulate the EDRAM thats in the GS chip right now

Segitz

08-09-2007, 07:04 PM

From what I understand it serves as "South Bridge" for the PS3. I could be wrong though, since it's been a long time since we discussed it.

Naa,

the R3051 (the PS1s main processor) was the I/O processor (sort of what the southbridge is in PCs but a bit different) in the PS2. This was quite a good move, as it didn't cost Sony money to develop it and it was cheap to produce.

In the EU PS3, there's no EE anymore (PS2s main processor). As Carl said, also the eDRAM was removed, so the CPU emulation is mainly done on the CELL and graphics still run natively on the GS with (I think) using the RSXs GDDR3 as substitution for the eDRAM (it is slower, but imaginative emulation can counter the deficiancies).

Afaik, PS1 emulation is purely done in SW on the PS3 (on the PSP, the main processor supports the instruction set of the PS1, so the CPU code runs natively on it).

VG Aficionado

08-09-2007, 07:22 PM

The 4 MB of eDRAM haven't been removed, as there's currently no way to emulate efficiently what the GS does as a whole. Only the EE and the 32 MB of Rambus RAM were removed. The GS was somewhat integrated in the same place where the southbridge is, but I don't know how or why or whether it has southbridging purposes. I'd say it allows for cheaper manufacturing and doesn't require internal rearrangement that would force to change the design of the cooling system.

OG_Monkey

08-10-2007, 06:48 AM

Why are they removing the Emotion CHip anyway if anyone knows?

masteratt

08-10-2007, 06:51 AM

Cheaper production.

TrueVCU

08-10-2007, 07:02 AM

It's sad that they're still losing money on the PS3 despite it's insane pricetag.

masteratt

08-10-2007, 07:04 AM

Well it's even insanier to produce.

I can't believe they only made $2 Billion profit on the PS (according to Viper).

Sony is too generous- they need to do more money picking.

TrueVCU

08-10-2007, 07:10 AM

At least they don't glue the thing together.

masteratt

08-10-2007, 07:27 AM

Actually, because the number of units sold was not as high as we hoped, the loss was better than our original expectation.
I'm starting to feel a bit bad for Sony- Seriously.

OG_Monkey

08-10-2007, 08:08 AM

damn

Sephiroth_VII

08-10-2007, 12:31 PM

Everyone, DON'T BUY A PS3!!! If you already have one, buy as many games as possible to repair the damage you've done to Sony!! :rant:

TrueVCU

08-10-2007, 02:59 PM

Repent! REPENT!

OG_Monkey

08-10-2007, 06:41 PM

oooook

Viper

08-10-2007, 06:45 PM

Everyone, DON'T BUY A PS3!!!

I'm currently doing my part.

I just saved Sony $50 - $200.00 (depending on actual loss per console). They should seriously send me a check for half of that as a gesture of good faith for helping out.

Segitz

08-10-2007, 07:35 PM

A free game would suffice^^

TrueVCU

08-10-2007, 07:36 PM

I smell a class action suit!

Gegenki

08-12-2007, 11:37 AM

Blogcritics on why U.S. PS3 will lose backward compatibility

According to Blogcritics' writer Mark Buckingham, Sony Computer of America (SCEA) has indeed removed backward compatibility on U.S. 80GB systems, effectively throwing U.S. PS3 owners into the same boat as their European counterparts.

In his article posted in Blogcritics, the Emotion Engine used in launch consoles (and enabled PS1 and PS2 games to run on the PS3) was eschewed in favor of software emulation for the newer 80GB PS3 units that will eventually replace the 60GB SKUs available in the market today. Sony's official reason for dropping backward compatibility on the PS3 is to concentrate on new games, new content both on the PS3 as well as PlayStation Network.

Buckingham was disappointed in the fact that Sony chose to focus more on delivering better content on its current system, in the expense of taking out an existing feature to lower costs. With PS3 SKUs that have the Emotion Engine already phased out, or will be eventually phased out in favor of the Emotion-less 80GB SKUs - there is no escaping from the newer non-backwards compatible PS3s. There is still hope though, as PS2 compatibility can still be attained through software updates.

We'll bring you more updates on this as they come, so be sure to check back.

http://ps3.qj.net/Blogcritics-on-why-U-S-PS3-will-lose-backward-compatibility/pg/49/aid/99685

Well firstly, Mark Buckingham is extremely ignorant. At first I considered it bad journalism, but then I reaslised blogcritics is a blog? is it not? And then I got it from PS3.qj.net, which is definatly a blog. + Explaining that the source was clearly ignorant could be seen as editorialisng?
Suddenly I see why blogs can be, possibly the worst thing to happen to public awareness.

I just realised the last part is written in 3rd person by ps3.qj
The actual article is much longer but qj.net didn't do to badly summing it up.
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2007/08/10/233621.php

VG Aficionado

08-12-2007, 11:44 AM

http://ps3.qj.net/Blogcritics-on-why-U-S-PS3-will-lose-backward-compatibility/pg/49/aid/99685

Well firstly, Mark Buckingham is extremely ignorant. At first I considered it bad journalism, but then I reaslised blogcritics is a blog? is it not? And then I got it from PS3.qj.net, which is definatly a blog. + Explaining that the source was clearly ignorant could be seen as editorialisng?
Suddenly I see why blogs can be, possibly the worst thing to happen to public awareness.

Even though at some point it sounds like it will have absolutely no BC at all, it really does say that "There is still hope though, as PS2 compatibility can still be attained through software updates.".

Anyway, I've already seen too many people thinking that upcoming PS3 models will have no BC compatibility whatsoever. And I'm afraid some think this because an smart ass from MS "predicted" Sony would release a 40 GB model before the end of this year which would also lacking BC and other stuff so that they could compete with Microsoft and the new pricing :duh:

Segitz

08-12-2007, 12:02 PM

Some will argue that nice things can be accomplished through software emulation, and they're right. Super Nintendo and Sega Genesis games look a lot cleaner in higher resolutions and put through various software filters. Running Metal Gear Solid on Bleem! made it a lot nicer-looking. However, with software emulation, typically only the biggest and best-selling handful of games get supported. Offbeat-but-worthwhile titles like Ico, Katamari Damacy, Skygunner, Okami, and Viewtiful Joe likely won't get support since they didn't sell a billion copies, and Sony's own admission that they're more interested in supporting new content as opposed to old isn't reassuring.

Man, this guy is full of s**t. (Meh, Sonys bc list is down ATM)...

Since I can't tell if his mentioned games are supported or not, I throw in other games, that I know will work.

RECVX works w/o problems. I was by no means a "billion seller". Since some 1700 out of 2500 or what (just guessing) work, you can't say, that they "drop BC". ALL of my owned games work, ALL of them. And EVERY update Sony has issued provided us with added compatibility.

Since Sonys approach of a fully fledged emulator is what it is, a fully fledged emulator, his assumption of "dropping less good selling games" is totally off. In the first updates even GT4 didn't work at all.

MSs approach (game centric, not hardware centric) will be like what he described. Here, bad selling games will not be supported, but there are great games (PGR2) which still aren't supported.

VG Aficionado

08-12-2007, 12:09 PM

The fact that he uses the word "billion" already shows how sensationalistic all that crap is. Ignore that BS.

Viper

08-12-2007, 07:30 PM

Gegenki, never go to a blog for news. If the source at a real site is a blog, take it with a grain of salt.

Few blogs have any real credibility to them and they must work hard to earn it. it's good policy just to assume a blog's news as being BS first.

OG_Monkey

08-13-2007, 12:39 AM

Even though at some point it sounds like it will have absolutely no BC at all, it really does say that "There is still hope though, as PS2 compatibility can still be attained through software updates.".

Anyway, I've already seen too many people thinking that upcoming PS3 models will have no BC compatibility whatsoever. And I'm afraid some think this because an smart ass from MS "predicted" Sony would release a 40 GB model before the end of this year which would also lacking BC and other stuff so that they could compete with Microsoft and the new pricing :duh:

seems likely...

satriales

08-13-2007, 03:01 AM

seems likely...

If by "likely" you mean "very unlikely" then yeah...

OG_Monkey

08-13-2007, 03:24 AM

LaLiLuLeLo

08-13-2007, 03:28 AM

That's just not in line with Sony's mission. Which is, putting out cutting edge feature packed electronics in an elegant system.

Viper

08-13-2007, 03:38 AM

i mean, sony releasing a PS3 with no wifi, no bc, and probably a wired controller with no bluetooth inside the ps3 doesnt seem like something they will do if they are so stuck up on keeping the PS3 at 500-600 dollars?

I agree with you.

Sony's current philosophy is adding more value. They are keeping the cost kinda high but continue to add value to the package. It would completely go against what they are doing to introduce a unit stripped of features.

curryking1

08-13-2007, 03:45 AM

Totally agree with the above two posts, great posts, all part of the philosophy, image, you name it, that goes along with the product :)

Viper

08-13-2007, 03:47 AM

It's like Pachter keeps trying say that Nintendo will introduce an HD Wii in 2009.

The analytical moron doesn't get it. It's all about direction and philosophy.

LaLiLuLeLo

08-13-2007, 04:41 AM

I think he's just slinging shit because Sony was getting a lot of positive attention leading up to his entry. Anybody could have come up with that shit.

Der, the even number between 20gb and 60 gb is 40! So it'll be a 40gb unit! And...and..to cut costs, there'll be no wifi, and no wireless controller, and no backwards compatibility! Derrrrr!!! Because taking out the PS3's capability to interface with Bluetooth electronics makes a ton of sense.

Constipation of the brain and diarrhea of the mouth.

Nameless

08-13-2007, 04:46 AM

Can anyone confirm if the 80GB comes with the new rumble axis controller?

Viper

08-13-2007, 04:48 AM

Can anyone confirm if the 80GB comes with the new rumble axis controller?

Sony is denying it.

Nameless

08-13-2007, 04:55 AM

^ That sucks...
I was hoping the rumble controller would be released soon.

LaLiLuLeLo

08-13-2007, 04:55 AM

Someday buddy. Someday...

Viper

08-13-2007, 04:58 AM

It's supposedly coming, as Lali said. Sony has already admitted it almost completely but have stopped short of when.

Nameless

08-13-2007, 05:03 AM

^ I guess they have a dilemma regarding packaging the controller with any version of the PS3, because they have current versions on shelves now.
I thought that was part of the reasoning behind the price cut...

I just hope some of the new titles being released this fall support the feature in their code. I heard that Dirt planned to support the feature and I hope titles like Warhawk and Heavenly Sword make the same move.

OG_Monkey

08-13-2007, 06:48 AM

That's just not in line with Sony's mission. Which is, putting out cutting edge feature packed electronics in an elegant system.

I agree with you.

Sony's current philosophy is adding more value. They are keeping the cost kinda high but continue to add value to the package. It would completely go against what they are doing to introduce a unit stripped of features.

ok ok, i see how they operate now.

It's supposedly coming, as Lali said. Sony has already admitted it almost completely but have stopped short of when.

Yeah, no doubt a new controller is ocming out, if it doesnt indeed have rumble, the it will probably just be an update to the current sixaxis controllers and not really a "new" controller

so far all they said recently was they are tweaking the sensitivity of the motion sensoring, and just minor stuff really

VG Aficionado

08-13-2007, 08:05 AM

I wouldn't expect it before November. Not only a new peripheral wouldn't appear less than a month after it's been announced (and it hasn't happened... yet). All of the new bundles are limited editions, specially the 80 GB one, so they're most likely getting rid of the existing stock of sixaxis controllers, and they've been shipping those with refined motion sensing and analog sticks as well.

Rest assured they surely are working on a new controller, but whether it'll be released this year or not remains to be seen. Not that I could possibly care before MGS4 though.

OG_Monkey

08-13-2007, 08:07 AM

BTW, if rumble does in fact come, a simple game update could implement this into the game right? After the devs, added it in and all that...

VG Aficionado

08-13-2007, 08:14 AM

It should be easy for multiplatform devs to implement traditional rumble, and as a matter of fact the guys from Codemasters claim that the code will be there in the PS3 version for a future controller to support it. However, I'd expect more from 1st party devs since touchsense is not the same as rumble. It's supposed to be more sophisticated and provide more varied feelings than rumble, and I bet Kojima would manage to do something special with it that couldn't really be done with good ol' rumble.

Sephiroth_VII

08-13-2007, 01:55 PM

The 80 GB is not temporary, but the bundle with Motorstorm is. The 80 GB is supposed to replace the 60 GB.

satriales

08-13-2007, 02:57 PM

i mean, sony releasing a PS3 with no wifi, no bc, and probably a wired controller with no bluetooth inside the ps3 doesnt seem like something they will do if they are so stuck up on keeping the PS3 at 500-600 dollars?
Removing all of those features isn't going to save much on costs, yet the consumer would expect the PS3 to be much cheaper as it has less features.

BC is always going to be there as it's done by software and removing it would not save any money.
The HDD went from 60GB to 80GB because of the way HDD prices work. The 80GB HDD probaly costs the same as (or less than) the 60GB and that's why Sony have gone with those for now.
A 40 GB HDD is not going to save much money (if any).
No point in creating a wired controller as it would have to be USB and the wireless ones already come with a USB cable. It would be a bit pointless just to remove the wireless part of the controller and again I doubt the savings would be worth it.
Removing the wifi and card reader might save some money (I'm not sure how much).

Overall I don't think removing features is going to save enough money and I find a 'barebones' PS3 very unlikely.