Need for Speed: Pro Street - official thread

[GTAce]

I searched but the only thread i found was "expired"...
I saw that there is a demo on XBL so im guessing we get one soon in the PSN too, heres hoping because im really looking forward to this title.

http://www.thewallpapers.us/data/media/796/need_for_speed_prostreet.jpg

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/26723.html

Especially the smoke effects are incredible and i like the car selection.

[Jay Gee]

That looked incredible. I'm intrigued by going "really, really fast" for sustained amounts of time.

[Killing Moon]

It’s about F’ing time. With all the GT nut-huggery, I didn’t think anyone would care to make a thread on Pro Street.

I just played the Live demo at lunch today.
It is REALLY damn good. The damage modeling is absolutely sick; you can destroy your car on a ridiculous level; more detailed than TOCA3 and as dramatic at times as Burnout. The high speed races are way too good as well. They’re similar to the Speed Traps of Most Wanted, but take place on long straights and shallow curves. In the demo you can use the ’07 BMW M3 and the sense of speed is just amazing, especially for a sim.

As far as the physics are concerned, they’re easily seem on par with GT so far. My only gripe is that there wasn’t any performance damage. Though supposedly there will be in the final build.

The presentation is VERY nice also. The game takes place in what seems like a Race Wars/Hot Import Nights/NOPI environment and the visuals are gorgeous. Even though they run at 30fps, this is probably the first time where I’ve never really cared. The control response is akin to 60fps.

I hate EA, but they SO have my money on this one.

[GTAce]

It’s about F’ing time. With all the GT nut-huggery, I didn’t think anyone would care to make a thread on Pro Street.
Surprised that it was me who made the thread? :-p


As far as the physics are concerned, they’re easily seem on par with GT so far.
I dont believe you with that but i like to get surprised.

[Killing Moon]

Surprised that it was me who made the thread? :-p


I dont believe you with that but i like to get surprised.

*GASP* But good God, yes, it’s possible.

There are already numerous games on the market equal to GT in physics. It’s nothing new; physics accuracy is not a huge achievement anymore. Don’t know if you got the memo.

Play the demo when you get a chance. It’s really F’ing good.

[GTAce]

I know but i mean from the realism i dont think a Need for Speed is comparable to that.
I for sure will see it for myself because i think this game is good for a while now.

[rob the slob]

Just played it. Procedural damage for the win! Its a quality game from what I have played and has some of the best image quality i've ever seen. Near to no jaggies on screen. Its still a rental for me, though. :p

[OG_Monkey]

Yes i just finished downloading the demo off marketplace. But why is this in the PS3 section and not video games general? Anyway, about to play now. Im excited for this game, hope it doesn't let me down

[GTAce]

Because i wanted to make a thread here for discussion about the game. lol
It deserves a thread here and like i said, im guessing we getting a demo soon on the PSN, maybe even in 2 days. :)

[OG_Monkey]

Because i wanted to make a thread here for discussion about the game. lol
It deserves a thread here and like i said, im guessing we getting a demo soon on the PSN, maybe even in 2 days. :)

yea buts this game is also on the Wii and 360 and PC so yea....

[rob the slob]

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p177/blubbernalgas/1277_0008-1.jpg

[OG_Monkey]

just got done playing the demo...man i cant fuckin wait

[r33hash]

I've always enjoyed the NFS games. Especially the more recent additions. I think I might purchase this one, since I haven't in a couple years.

[OG_Monkey]

so far only complaints:

1. No cockpit view...come on, what racing game doesnt have this by now, ALL SHOULD HAVE IT

2. Totaled...we get the point, i dont know why it takes so loong

[Killing Moon]

so far only complaints:

1. No cockpit view...come on, what racing game doesnt have this by now, ALL SHOULD HAVE IT

2. Totaled...we get the point, i dont know why it takes so loong

I think not being able to bypass the “Totaled” screen is probably an old bug. More than likely it’s solved in the later builds.

As far as the cockpit view is concerned, it was probably a compromise. On one hand, they can have an internal cockpit view, but then the trade off would be a loss in something else more detrimental (damage, smoke, etc.). On the other hand, they can concentrate on the biggest features of the game and worry about an aesthetic like that possibly in a sequel.

I think the latter is more important, really.
I’d love to see a cockpit view for the sequel though.

[Segitz]

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p177/blubbernalgas/1277_0008-1.jpg

This is EXACTLY what I was talking about, what I do NOT wanna see in games, that have damage...

Bending plate is NOT what damage should be about... It should be about bending steel underneath the bodywork... The chassis, where the stability and structure of a car IS (if I drive into a deer, this damage is done (I had one myself, and my car looked about like this, really), but not if I crash into another vehicle!).

http://www.techspot.com/reviews/games/viper/viper7.jpg

This game is from 1998 (by the devs of ExciteTruck no less) and it did better procedural damage... I couldn't find a better image, but if you drove into a pole, the complete front would bend around it! Really, this game had massively good damage, nearly 10 years ago.


But doing that requires much CPU power. That's why I think, PD does not (yet?) have a damage engine, as this "damage" is purely cosmetical and not what car damage is about... It is like getting keyed but a mad soccer mum, because your son fouled him at yesterdays game fgs!


So, do we get the demo on thursday? I doubt it, but we'll see soon enough (in about 2 days actually^^)

[GTAce]

What is this for a game? Looks good for 1998.

The chance that we get a demo is pretty high, EA supports the PSN with a lot demos. :)

[OG_Monkey]

the fact you cant pan the camera and look around the car also bugs me. I remember in an e3 demo the guy was looking round the car, i guess they took it out

[Killing Moon]

This is EXACTLY what I was talking about, what I do NOT wanna see in games, that have damage...

Bending plate is NOT what damage should be about... It should be about bending steel underneath the bodywork... The chassis, where the stability and structure of a car IS (if I drive into a deer, this damage is done (I had one myself, and my car looked about like this, really), but not if I crash into another vehicle!).

http://www.techspot.com/reviews/games/viper/viper7.jpg

This game is from 1998 (by the devs of ExciteTruck no less) and it did better procedural damage... I couldn't find a better image, but if you drove into a pole, the complete front would bend around it! Really, this game had massively good damage, nearly 10 years ago.


But doing that requires much CPU power. That's why I think, PD does not (yet?) have a damage engine, as this "damage" is purely cosmetical and not what car damage is about... It is like getting keyed but a mad soccer mum, because your son fouled him at yesterdays game fgs!


So, do we get the demo on thursday? I doubt it, but we'll see soon enough (in about 2 days actually^^)
Um…you realize that you’ve contradicted yourself by saying that an old game did it, yet Polyphony probably can’t/won’t due to technology.

PD not implementing it is an excuse, man. Let it go.
Pro Street displays damage just fine. Let’s not split hairs here; something THAT anal is a bit ridiculous.

You want bad damage work? Look at Forza.

[OG_Monkey]

Speaking of Forza...they put this kinda, "helper" in. I dont know if it was for the demo or not but its that thing that be on the road that tell you when to slow down, speed up, where to be at turns, all that

[Fillibuster]

^Yeah F1 CE had that too. I hate the racing line, it makes it harder for me actually cuz it looks fucked up and it makes me angry when I drive lol

[OG_Monkey]

no bull lol. I dunno why its hear though, NFS really isnt the type of game that needs it but it does feel a little different. I dunno

[Segitz]

Um…you realize that you’ve contradicted yourself by saying that an old game did it, yet Polyphony probably can’t/won’t due to technology.

PD not implementing it is an excuse, man. Let it go.
Pro Street displays damage just fine. Let’s not split hairs here; something THAT anal is a bit ridiculous.

You want bad damage work? Look at Forza.

Well yes and no... Comparing only the two models of Viper Racing and GT shows you the difference in computational work, that needs to be done for procedural damage. Viper Racing had one car to choose from (well, a Viper^^), whereas GT5P already will have 40, where the cars alone have more polys than those in VP.

VP did a great job for its time, yet for a real look, it needs to be done much more realistic for it to be good.

I am not sure, why they don't do it (PD I mean). Can't they do it, because of hardware limitations or because they cannot program it right? I are they not allowed to do so? I do not know, but still damage is a very cool feature (not mandatory, but it would be nice nontheless).

Pro Street does show scratches and stuff, not damage, that's a major difference. Race Driver had damage, but not this one (imho!!).

Forza had textures that represented scratches and whatnot, that's not even damage^^

[Killing Moon]

Well yes and no... Comparing only the two models of Viper Racing and GT shows you the difference in computational work, that needs to be done for procedural damage. Viper Racing had one car to choose from (well, a Viper^^), whereas GT5P already will have 40, where the cars alone have more polys than those in VP.

VP did a great job for its time, yet for a real look, it needs to be done much more realistic for it to be good.

I am not sure, why they don't do it (PD I mean). Can't they do it, because of hardware limitations or because they cannot program it right? I are they not allowed to do so? I do not know, but still damage is a very cool feature (not mandatory, but it would be nice nontheless).

Pro Street does show scratches and stuff, not damage, that's a major difference. Race Driver had damage, but not this one (imho!!).

Forza had textures that represented scratches and whatnot, that's not even damage^^

WTF, scratches and stuff? Are we looking at the same game here? Pro Street’s damage work is much more than a series of scratches and scrapes; now you’re grossly exaggerating in order to support your over-reaching point. Seriously, even by watching a video it would show much more than that.

And not for nothing, considering that this is EA’s FIRST racing sim, they’ve already accomplished more than what GT has for the last 10yrs. straight. Which is embarrassing, to say the least. So if you’re aiming to nitpick, it’d be better to try another game to support your point. Complaining about the little, minute idiosyncrasies of damage modeling, while the game you’ve been clasping onto ceases to have any whatsoever, all but kills your credibility for an argument.

Don’t mean to turn this into another GT argument, but c’mon already.
You really, REALLY are splitting hairs right now.

[Killing Moon]

Just went through the demo again, but broke it down some more.

The physics seem spot on: you can feel just when your tires are giving out in corners similar to other high ends sims. However, the control isn’t hampered by this and from what I’m seeing, the cars don’t unrealistically slide everywhere when brake-corning ala Forza.
Plus they also have clutch-manual tranny as well. Not many console sims do this, so I’m glad they’re using it as well.

I’ve only played on the King (full simulation) setting so far and really liking it. Proves that racing sims don’t HAVE to be boring.

[SleazyBig slim]

I'm picking up Juice2 today along with R&C. The demo was better then I expected, I may still get NFS as well, but the shere online options in Juiced2 are too good to pass up. Online pink slip racing along with the ability to customize my controlls is what sold me. Does anyone know if Pro Street lets you cusomize the controlls?

[Killing Moon]

I'm picking up Juice2 today along with R&C. The demo was better then I expected, I may still get NFS as well, but the shere online options in Juiced2 are too good to pass up. Online pink slip racing along with the ability to customize my controlls is what sold me. Does anyone know if Pro Street lets you cusomize the controlls?

Most EA games don’t allow you to. They’re still on that whole console style, preset control scheme stupidity. So I wouldn’t hold my breath. Being a sim, it SHOULD let you. But don’t bank on it.

[SleazyBig slim]

Most EA games don’t allow you to. They’re still on that whole console style, preset control scheme stupidity. So I wouldn’t hold my breath. Being a sim, it SHOULD let you. But don’t bank on it.


Tell me about it not even Madden gives controller config options, thats ludacrus. Its bad enough they changed it up from the PS2 even though its the same damn controller!. EA= idiots.

[GTAce]

Wow if i cant accelerate/break with the right stick i will be pissed.

[Segitz]

WTF, scratches and stuff? Are we looking at the same game here? Pro Street’s damage work is much more than a series of scratches and scrapes; now you’re grossly exaggerating in order to support your over-reaching point. Seriously, even by watching a video it would show much more than that.

And not for nothing, considering that this is EA’s FIRST racing sim, they’ve already accomplished more than what GT has for the last 10yrs. straight. Which is embarrassing, to say the least. So if you’re aiming to nitpick, it’d be better to try another game to support your point. Complaining about the little, minute idiosyncrasies of damage modeling, while the game you’ve been clasping onto ceases to have any whatsoever, all but kills your credibility for an argument.

Don’t mean to turn this into another GT argument, but c’mon already.
You really, REALLY are splitting hairs right now.

Nono, by no means I want to turn this into a GT thread^^

What I meant with scratches is just demonstrate exaggerated(ly?) what this looks like. There's no structural damage at all, just cosmetics. The hood bends, the doors do too, but what does the chassis do? Nothing... Even at 50km/h (~30mph), hitting "something" (obviously not a mouse or somesuch) WILL bend not only your bumper, but the whole engine bay will be deformed. (look at Daytona Usa for example, they did it too, to some degree at least)


You say, NFS Prostreet is a sim? I dunno (I cannot say anything about it, as I haven't played it yet), but from what I've seen in videos (mostly the E3 stuff iirc), it is no sim at all (when talking about sims like Nascar (Papyrus!) or GP4 (Crammond)), yet you say it is... I should try it then (when the PS3 or PC demo comes around), to make up my mind.

I am still on a fence though. Ever since Underground, the franchise took a nosedive in terms of playability and fun (well except Most Wanted, which was at least partly playable) and I fear with ProStreet it is no different.

I really like nearly every NFS game ever made, but what I've always HATED about those games was the rubberband AI... I mean, I drive like a "pro" (i.e. I have a good run w/o mistakes), yet the AI can't be shaken off... That is NOT fun... (one time, the AI made a really big mistake, giving me a half lap lead in the last lap... Just before crossing the finish line, the opponent closed up on me and overtook me!!! (this was all Most Wanted)). This also applies to Motorstorm sadly... but not that extremely fortunately.


I am open to try this game still though (as I do with all NFS games).

[Killing Moon]

Wow if i cant accelerate/break with the right stick i will be pissed.

Which is exactly why I’m holding out for the PS3 version.

Nono, by no means I want to turn this into a GT thread^^

What I meant with scratches is just demonstrate exaggerated(ly?) what this looks like. There's no structural damage at all, just cosmetics. The hood bends, the doors do too, but what does the chassis do? Nothing... Even at 50km/h (~30mph), hitting "something" (obviously not a mouse or somesuch) WILL bend not only your bumper, but the whole engine bay will be deformed. (look at Daytona Usa for example, they did it too, to some degree at least)


You say, NFS Prostreet is a sim? I dunno (I cannot say anything about it, as I haven't played it yet), but from what I've seen in videos (mostly the E3 stuff iirc), it is no sim at all (when talking about sims like Nascar (Papyrus!) or GP4 (Crammond)), yet you say it is... I should try it then (when the PS3 or PC demo comes around), to make up my mind.

I am still on a fence though. Ever since Underground, the franchise took a nosedive in terms of playability and fun (well except Most Wanted, which was at least partly playable) and I fear with ProStreet it is no different.

I really like nearly every NFS game ever made, but what I've always HATED about those games was the rubberband AI... I mean, I drive like a "pro" (i.e. I have a good run w/o mistakes), yet the AI can't be shaken off... That is NOT fun... (one time, the AI made a really big mistake, giving me a half lap lead in the last lap... Just before crossing the finish line, the opponent closed up on me and overtook me!!! (this was all Most Wanted)). This also applies to Motorstorm sadly... but not that extremely fortunately.


I am open to try this game still though (as I do with all NFS games).


From what I’m experiencing thus far, the game is aiming to be a sim. I mean this by as far as the physics simulations for each and every vehicle, plus their interaction with the courses being raced. Not necessarily if they’re on real courses (though I BELIEVE there are supposed to be a few in the final build).

As far as chassis damage, I believe it’s a design decision. I mean, while I would like to see full chassis damage similar to DiRT, I can’t say that it’s super detrimental to the gameplay. I mean really, if the performance damage is on point and the deformation is reflected just as well, I believe I can live if the car doesn’t fold around a pole, y’know. If they upgrade this feature in the next games, then yes, I’ll appreciate it. But I won’t hate the game either for not trying.

I’d say get the foundation set FIRST before trying to go balls out.

[Red_Eyes]

Just so tempted to complain about NFS just like how Killing Moon complained about GT5 Prologue...

[jaxmkii]

drag racing is cool when your 13-23 years old after that it gets boring

[Killing Moon]

Just so tempted to complain about NFS just like how Killing Moon complained about GT5 Prologue...

It’s just KILLIN’ you, ain’t it.
Problem is, you wouldn’t have nearly as much ammo and supporting grounds to do so. LOL




Jk’ing. :-D

[GTAce]

Demo is in the US store, downloading atm.
I hope i can accelerate/brake with the right stick..

[Killing Moon]

Demo is in the US store, downloading atm.
I hope i can accelerate/brake with the right stick..

WORD? Gonna DL it now. Thanks dude.
Yeah, same here though. If the graphics engine is on par w/ the 360 version, then it's a guaranteed purchase for me.

[GTAce]

Damn again just with R2 and L2. 8(
Hope they will make an option in the final game.

Demo is good, like it, cant wait for the full version.
I dont think you can call it a sim tbh, but its WAY more realistic than Carbon or MW or whatever. lol
Great game, good graphics, good sound, awesome music and i want more. 8)

[Jay Gee]

November is officially a super-saturated month for good games. Ridiculous.
*will download after work*

[Killing Moon]

Damn again just with R2 and L2. 8(
Hope they will make an option in the final game.

Demo is good, like it, cant wait for the full version.
I dont think you can call it a sim tbh, but its WAY more realistic than Carbon or MW or whatever. lol
Great game, good graphics, good sound, awesome music and i want more. 8)

More than likely they will (disappointing for the demo though). EA usually has the R-analog setup for PlayStation games in final builds.
Mine's 70% over here. Blargh

[Nameless]

I just downloaded the demo gonna see if it supports my Logitech wheel...

Update: The Force feedback support is solid and it auto detected my Logitech Wheel.
The visuals are impressive and the sense of speed is really well done; the steering wheel kind of shakes violently when you kick in the Nitro... I'm not sure if the arcade style of play would get boring after awhile, but if this game has solid online I may consider a purchase.

If the 360 supported my Logitech wheel I would strongly consider the title for the 360, because I know more players will be online for the MP component. Since the PS3 has solid wheel support it will be my platform of choice for all racing titles...

[Killing Moon]

Umm...what, the hell?!
I just tested it w/ GT5 Prologue and Ninja Gaiden. The TV our PS3 is using displays 1080i.

So um...why the f**k is this game only displaying at 480p.
Am I doing something wrong here?

[Nameless]

^ The demo may only support 480/720P...
I'm sure the final product will support 1080i.

[Red_Eyes]

The demo was a disappointing. After Killing Moon hype it so much, I thought it was going to be so much better than GT5P. NFS plays like all other typical racers out there. And maybe because I have an SD tv, but there are so much jaggies.

[Killing Moon]

The demo was a disappointing. After Killing Moon hype it so much, I thought it was going to be so much better than GT5P. NFS plays like all other typical racers out there. And maybe because I have an SD tv, but there are so much jaggies.

LOL kid much.

And yeah, if there are jaggies, it's definitely the PS3 version...or your TV.
Pro Street doesn't play like any other typical racer out there other than the sims on the market. Did you even play the demo and on what control mode?

I'll be honest, it's not as if I didn't expect someone to try and return venom. However, "typical racer" is a weak attempt, frankly.

C'mon now--need to hate from the GT5 bitterness that I spread?
To be fair, w/ so much GT5 sucking on this forum--how disappointing was THAT only to find out that the Prologue demo only played exactly like GT4? Oh, that and GT5 is probably one of the more drastic culprits for aliasing/jaggies to date.

Already knew where this was going; sadly predictable (but hey, so am I, right?).
Don't be a hypocrite.

[Nameless]

TBH I think the 360 version of NFSPS has superior AA compared to the PS3 demo, but I could be wrong... The versions basically look the same visually on both platforms and I'm actually impressed with NFSPS. Since they decided to include crashes it forces you to race more realistically because you have consequences for playing bumper cars... If the game plays well online I could see the crash feature being cool during online play. I could also see idiots ruining races by crashing people on purpose. It would be slick if they had a ranking system and you could quickly determine these types of racers and boot them from the lobby before the race starts.

Also, after playing NFSPS it just confirmed my need for crashes in online races; it's long overdue and the bumper cars are just not cutting it anymore IMO...

[OG_Monkey]

I played this again...and im starting to think

where did the NFS go?...where did it go? This game tries too hard. Its not the same NFS anymore

[Nameless]

^ With the addition of crashes police chases would have taken on a whole new life in NFSPS...

[OG_Monkey]

huh?

what they need to do is bring out a hot pursuit 3/4, wherever it left off

[Killing Moon]

huh?

what they need to do is bring out a hot pursuit 3/4, wherever it left off

Y’know, to this day I still don’t know WTF people are complaining about in regards to NFS’ roots.

Hot Pursuit 2 (PS2) was the last of the old formula—which had about 5 iterations already, so they changed and went the Tuner (and ricer) route. People loved it, others complained. Then they continued on w/ Underground 2, made it better in many areas, people still bitched about there not being enough “exotics” in the game. So they bring back the exotics AND police chases in Most Wanted (the best one since HP2)---people still bitch about the old formula.

I mean at this point, WTF do you guys even WANT from Need for Speed anymore? They brought back the exotics, they mixed it in with JDM’s and American domestics, then brought back police chases. What’s the problem? lol

[Nameless]

^ There's police chases in NFSPS?

[Killing Moon]

^ There's police chases in NFSPS?

LOL no, Pro Street's a racing sim in city tracks. I heavily doubt that police chases will be in the game.

[Nameless]

^ As you can see I have not followed the Need for Speed series for a long time... I thought the game was a street racer so the police would be part of that equation, but if they are racing on city tracks I see your point.

[Killing Moon]

^ As you can see I have not followed the Need for Speed series for a long time... I thought the game was a street racer so the police would be part of that equation, but if they are racing on city tracks I see your point.

I guessed that much.
Really though, how many people have really followed NFS to judge them fairly on here to begin with? My guess—not much.

[GD|eNSo]

Just played the demo, and skimmed through the thread. Might have missed it, but is there something wrong with the res or is it suppose to be this way? The demo has a very muggy look to it rather then sharp and smooth I remember seeing in some vids...?...

[Nameless]

^I kind of noticed the same thing during gameplay it was not muggy, but there's an odd blurring and some jaggies during gameplay that is not present in the 360 demo.
I'm not sure if this issue is only related to the demo or will be in the final PS3 release.

[Segitz]

LOL no, Pro Street's a racing sim in city tracks. I heavily doubt that police chases will be in the game.

Ok, now that I tried the demo and made up my mind, I say...

NFS:ProStreet is UTTER RUBBISH!

I mean, come ON! Even setting it to pro, I go round corners like glued to the track! This game is not sim, it is not even arcadey (no drifting, much). This game is even MORE mainstreamy as it can be... You don't have to control your car... Just press left or right when turns come (and do not lift accel. as you can drive every corner at full speed).

The graphics are "ok". Not even close to GT5P, but ok. Textures (the yellow middle line is ugly^^) are washed out and ... whatnot.

The car damage looks worse than in Burnout (still no bending chassis et al) and the damage model is inconsistent (i.e. I crashed into a telephone pole one time at 300km/h, where I was totaled, but the next round, I could still drive with heavy damage).

The "pre race" stuff is also killing my patience... I want to drive, not watch cars "being cool"... You can't even skip it FGS!

I can't even express how bad this demo was...

Demo Rating 2/10 (1 point for the smoke and 1 for the overall graphics, the rest is NOT noteworthy, the controls would even recon a minus rating!)

[Killing Moon]

Ok, now that I tried the demo and made up my mind, I say...

NFS:ProStreet is UTTER RUBBISH!

I mean, come ON! Even setting it to pro, I go round corners like glued to the track! This game is not sim, it is not even arcadey (no drifting, much). This game is even MORE mainstreamy as it can be... You don't have to control your car... Just press left or right when turns come (and do not lift accel. as you can drive every corner at full speed).

Okay, I have to call bullshit on this one. The game doesn’t play that way in any manner and this is even after my own sessions with an arcade game for extensive time (PGR4, actually). There were many times where I had to worry about cadence braking and taking corners at the proper line just as smoothly as GT for years now.

I really don’t know; is this a product of the PS3 version?

The graphics are "ok". Not even close to GT5P, but ok. Textures (the yellow middle line is ugly^^) are washed out and ... whatnot.

The car damage looks worse than in Burnout (still no bending chassis et al) and the damage model is inconsistent (i.e. I crashed into a telephone pole one time at 300km/h, where I was totaled, but the next round, I could still drive with heavy damage).

The "pre race" stuff is also killing my patience... I want to drive, not watch cars "being cool"... You can't even skip it FGS!

I can't even express how bad this demo was...

Demo Rating 2/10 (1 point for the smoke and 1 for the overall graphics, the rest is NOT noteworthy, the controls would even recon a minus rating!)

M’yeah…I think this is the PS3 version talking here. I dunno WTF is up. Everyone who has played this game or witnessed it here at work has loved the way it looks. Especially the artists.

Maybe EA fouled up this version. I don’t know.

[Segitz]

Okay, I have to call bullshit on this one. The game doesn’t play that way in any manner and this is even after my own sessions with an arcade game for extensive time (PGR4, actually). There were many times where I had to worry about cadence braking and taking corners at the proper line just as smoothly as GT for years now.

I really don’t know; is this a product of the PS3 version?

Hmm, I (and this is PURELY me) say, this game for ME, is utter rubbish. This game does not control like a sim AT ALL (for me!!). I mean, I've driven cars (and I am talking real cars, the ones that stand outside your house) for seven years (yeah, driving licences for cars are 18+ in Germany) and I know how to drive and how cars drive. And NFS does NOT in ANY WAY replicate that. I mean, come ON. You can go around corners at 200km/h and the car doesn't even over or understeer at all (the amount it does is not in any way "sim like"). I mean, just compare it (play wise, not graphics, that's another department) to any game that says of itself it is a sim... Like GT, Nascar 1 and 2 (Papyrus FTW!), GT Legends or Grand Prix 4... This game is NO SIM, not even ONE BIT.

And controlwise, there should be no difference at all between 360 and PS3.



M’yeah…I think this is the PS3 version talking here. I dunno WTF is up. Everyone who has played this game or witnessed it here at work has loved the way it looks. Especially the artists.

Maybe EA fouled up this version. I don’t know.

The graphics are ok, but the post processing and stuff is just too "non-realistic". The smoke is great and the cars look ok (the HDR in GT5P is 100% better, but that game is in a COMPLETE different league), but that's about it. The tracks look really meh (Ok, that may be, because I prefer real life tracks, but thats just me)... so... I dunno just bland (all the flags and stuff do NOT add "coolness").

This game sorely tries to be cool but utterly fails on SOOO many levels (first of all, it is too mainstreamy controlwise, as I said before, even my mum could get first place in this game, without any training).

[Killing Moon]

Hmm, I (and this is PURELY me) say, this game for ME, is utter rubbish. This game does not control like a sim AT ALL (for me!!). I mean, I've driven cars (and I am talking real cars, the ones that stand outside your house) for seven years (yeah, driving licences for cars are 18+ in Germany) and I know how to drive and how cars drive. And NFS does NOT in ANY WAY replicate that. I mean, come ON. You can go around corners at 200km/h and the car doesn't even over or understeer at all (the amount it does is not in any way "sim like"). I mean, just compare it (play wise, not graphics, that's another department) to any game that says of itself it is a sim... Like GT, Nascar 1 and 2 (Papyrus FTW!), GT Legends or Grand Prix 4... This game is NO SIM, not even ONE BIT.

And controlwise, there should be no difference at all between 360 and PS3.





The graphics are ok, but the post processing and stuff is just too "non-realistic". The smoke is great and the cars look ok (the HDR in GT5P is 100% better, but that game is in a COMPLETE different league), but that's about it. The tracks look really meh (Ok, that may be, because I prefer real life tracks, but thats just me)... so... I dunno just bland (all the flags and stuff do NOT add "coolness").

This game sorely tries to be cool but utterly fails on SOOO many levels (first of all, it is too mainstreamy controlwise, as I said before, even my mum could get first place in this game, without any training).

First off, Gran Turismo IS a mainstream game. About as mainstream as you can get. Please let’s not try to create some type of stigma that GT is for hardcore underground gamers only.

Secondly, if you’ve ever been to an auto show, especially a Tuner one, then you’d recognize Pro Street’s persona. Everything from HIN, NOPI, Race Wars and Formula D have presentations the way Pro Street is doing. So you’re off the mark. Sorry for you, but the automotive culture is, was and always will be synonymous with “cool”. Even from older pop culture, like Vanishing Point to the modern Fast and the Furious.

That’s the way it is in reality, buddy.
If you can’t hack it, get another hobby.

Lastly, your comments about Pro Street’s control are so off the mark it’s laughable. Quite literally, it really is laughable, as I just shared your post with several of my buddies both at work here and a few tuner buddies online who have played the demo. Believe, I’m being nice but even leaving this be. So really, I’m not going to go on a back and forth idiot charade with you on it. Like you said, to “you”, right?

Typical Gran Turismo fanboys, man. No different that your general Xbox Halo zealots.



EDIT UPDATE:
Just did a side by side control comparison w/ GT5 Prologue and Pro Street on the 360.
Both seem to have the same grip as if using Medium grade racing tires. Both pose strong physics, especially in cornering and braking.

The catch? Pro Street by default uses ABS and Stability management.
I really don't know what's up, maybe it's the PS3 version, maybe you guys are lying, hell, maybe this is just a predictable hate-answer to my GT5 posts.

But whatever it is, it's bullshit. And it's not the Pro Street demo (360) from what I've played over and over again (along w/ Prologue).

[Red_Eyes]

I keep hearing that this game suppose to be a sim. But when I played the demo, it's so arcady. WTF?

[section]

It's pure arcade even on that King mode or whatever it is but fun arcade.

[Segitz]

First off, Gran Turismo IS a mainstream game. About as mainstream as you can get. Please let’s not try to create some type of stigma that GT is for hardcore underground gamers only.

Secondly, if you’ve ever been to an auto show, especially a Tuner one, then you’d recognize Pro Street’s persona. Everything from HIN, NOPI, Race Wars and Formula D have presentations the way Pro Street is doing. So you’re off the mark. Sorry for you, but the automotive culture is, was and always will be synonymous with “cool”. Even from older pop culture, like Vanishing Point to the modern Fast and the Furious.

That’s the way it is in reality, buddy.
If you can’t hack it, get another hobby.

Lastly, your comments about Pro Street’s control are so off the mark it’s laughable. Quite literally, it really is laughable, as I just shared your post with several of my buddies both at work here and a few tuner buddies online who have played the demo. Believe, I’m being nice but even leaving this be. So really, I’m not going to go on a back and forth idiot charade with you on it. Like you said, to “you”, right?

Typical Gran Turismo fanboys, man. No different that your general Xbox Halo zealots.

Oh, come on... You sound like an EA rep now.

I never intended to say GT is a hardcore game at all, and if it came out that way, sorry. It clearly also is a mainstream game, of course, it sells that well. And yes, I have been to the Essen Motorshow as well as the IAA (less tuner more car manufactorers). I have also less of a problem with those "cool" tuners (I don't like it, but whoever wants it shall do it), but NFS takes it to an even higher level... It is just too much!

And the controls... You cannot tell me, AT ALL, that this game, in ANY way, controls like a sim... The physics engine isn't even physics, it is RUBBISH. You have the same grip at 200mph as with 10mph... You just do not lose control... This is ridiculous! And your comrades say it controls good... Well, I can't argue that, to each his own, but don't even try to convince anyone, that this game is a sim (which you said several times).

Also, I am not defending GT here, I am just comparing the controls. I usually steer clear of arcade racers, but some of the good ones (like Outrun C2C) I play.

And again, my opinion is, that this game is utter rubbish. The controls are not fun, they aren't challenging at all, so there is no need for training and all that stuff.

But if you like it, please do, but just don't say it is a sim... IT IS NOT!

[Killing Moon]

Oh, come on... You sound like an EA rep now.

I never intended to say GT is a hardcore game at all, and if it came out that way, sorry. It clearly also is a mainstream game, of course, it sells that well. And yes, I have been to the Essen Motorshow as well as the IAA (less tuner more car manufactorers). I have also less of a problem with those "cool" tuners (I don't like it, but whoever wants it shall do it), but NFS takes it to an even higher level... It is just too much!

And the controls... You cannot tell me, AT ALL, that this game, in ANY way, controls like a sim... The physics engine isn't even physics, it is RUBBISH. You have the same grip at 200mph as with 10mph... You just do not lose control... This is ridiculous! And your comrades say it controls good... Well, I can't argue that, to each his own, but don't even try to convince anyone, that this game is a sim (which you said several times).

Also, I am not defending GT here, I am just comparing the controls. I usually steer clear of arcade racers, but some of the good ones (like Outrun C2C) I play.

And again, my opinion is, that this game is utter rubbish. The controls are not fun, they aren't challenging at all, so there is no need for training and all that stuff.

But if you like it, please do, but just don't say it is a sim... IT IS NOT!

EDIT UPDATE:
Just did a side by side control comparison w/ GT5 Prologue and Pro Street on the 360.
Both seem to have the same grip as if using Medium grade racing tires. Both pose strong physics, especially in cornering and braking.

The catch? Pro Street by default uses ABS and Stability management.
I really don't know what's up, maybe it's the PS3 version, maybe you guys are lying, hell, maybe this is just a predictable hate-answer to my GT5 posts.

But whatever it is, it's bullshit. And it's not the Pro Street demo (360) from what I've played over and over again (along w/ Prologue).

Nice exaggeration on the 200mph to 10mph grip comparison. What course were you playing again?








Completely full of s***

[GTAce]

KM dont write to much and download the PS3 demo.
Heard enough comments that the demos are the same and yes its not a sim.
While i disagree with Segitz on the fun factor its right that its not a simulation.

[Segitz]

[B]

Completely full of s***

Don't go down that route, you are making a fool of yourself!

Yes we disagree and yes a exagerate (you do too btw), this game was and never will be anywhere near any sim (or near sim) game PERIOD.

[jaxmkii]

Ok who sayed this game is better than GT and had an awsome damage model?

[Jay Gee]

Man, that Gametrailers clip of this game looked 30 times better than what I'm seeing on my PS3. Going really fast for long distances did seem like a good idea when I read about it, but it wasn't that hot when I actually did it. Think I might just rent this one and see how it goes. Can't wait for Ridge Racer 8. Hmm, sounds catchy. Slogany even.:DDD

[KRA]

the one thing that i like in nfs: pro street are baloons :)
designed by a very nice artist Motomichi Nakamura (http://www.motomichi.com/characters_nfsballoons.html).
he made very nice knife's music video too.

617ANIA5Rqs

[Smokey]

it dont look too bad off PSN for an arcade racer... could be a purchace

[GTAce]

Cool new video (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/27480.html?type=mov)
The smoke just looks incredible.

[Sephiroth_VII]

KM, I just downloaded the demo and played the desert track in "King Mode," and the only time is crashed/left the track while never letting go of the throttle was on high hills when the car flew through the air.

This game is not a sim, and it's not realistic.

But, after playing it, I think I can finally understand what it is you want from GT: You want it to be like a Hollywood movie, which is what NFS is, not a simulation.

[Killing Moon]

KM, I just downloaded the demo and played the desert track in "King Mode," and the only time is crashed/left the track while never letting go of the throttle was on high hills when the car flew through the air.

This game is not a sim, and it's not realistic.

But, after playing it, I think I can finally understand what it is you want from GT: You want it to be like a Hollywood movie, which is what NFS is, not a simulation.

No, genius, but nice try.
Play the 360 version; the PS3 version apparently is very broken. And not just the Speed King mode.

[Sephiroth_VII]

Ok, but it's rather hard to find a 360 with the NFS demo around here.

[VG Aficionado]

Why the hell would the demos be any different?

Not that a lot of what's been said here makes sense anyway :duh:

[Killing Moon]

Why the hell would the demos be any different?

Not that a lot of what's been said here makes sense anyway :duh:

So far I’ve been noticing that the demos are very different. The controls seem a bit off, the visuals are drastically lower quality and who knows what else for what the final build brings.

As I said, I don’t know what’s up. But I’ve played a ton of sims and still do today. There’s a severe difference between the way Ridge Racer, Burnout, PGR4 (which is closer to a sim, really) and even previous Need For Speed series control in comparison to this. So the claims of being able to pull off corners w/o braking, flawless grip, etc. seem all the more full of shit considering that a few of my colleagues here at work have tried the same thing due to their lack of experience. And you know what happens? Either they crash, end up off the road or fly off the course into the rocky terrain (Speed King). Shit like that doesn’t happen with the average player weaned on Burnout. It usually tends to happen to those playing a sim like Forza or Gran Turismo.

Just to check up, even I tried this on King controls and wasn’t able to pull off the claims here (only to see if I’m losing it here). Now best case scenario---the “easy” control claims here are more than likely due to the game running with ASM on (you can’t toggle it off in the demo). Which probably leads to the fact as to why spinning out isn’t as easy as it could be w/o the setting turned off (compared to Prologue on sim controls, to be fair).

Again, all this is possibly due to my playing the 360 version. I just don’t know.

To put things into perspective, I constantly play 3 games/demos back to back here. PGR4, Pro Street and then GT Prologue demo. Of course, every so often I’d play Race-WTCC using the X360 joypad for PC. That and with also getting home and throwing on either TXR-Drift (another sim), TOCA3 or GT4.

So again, something’s up. Either it’s the PS3 version that is off somehow, or this is just a bunch of bullshit.

[Segitz]

You have a PS3 KM, don't you?

So why don't you just compare it yourself? That should be no problem! (and to add to that, the PC demo plays "the same" as the PS3 game... obviously with a keyboard instead of a pad, but there's not much of a difference)

And what does Wikipedia say about NFS:PS??

Well...
Need for Speed: ProStreet will take the Need for Speed series in a new direction of gameplay. Instead of an arcade style of gameplay which has dominated the series, ProStreet will focus much more on realism and move closer to, but not into, racing simulation, and still with options to use driving assistants to make driving easier and more arcade-like

There you have it... and ooohh, what is that I found^^

'Simulation' is a dirty word, says Need for Speed producer
Looks to distance new NFS from Gran Turismo and Forza

(...)

"We're definitely not looking to make a simulation. I think 'simulation' is a bit of a dirty word", said Doyle, who made it clear Pro Street is not EA's answer to Forza at all.

(...)


Source (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=168875)


They must clearly have maken a mistake in that interview, didn't they?

So again, something’s up. Either it’s the PS3 version that is off somehow, or this is just a bunch of bullshit.

Yes, of course KM, we are just bullshitting you when we say, NFS:PS is an arcade game... Really... what benefit does this bring us? Why does the PC demo play the same? Why does even the producer of NFS:PS say it is NOT a simulation??

[OG_Monkey]

so im guessing this game doesnt have a crappy story mode anymore

[Killing Moon]

You have a PS3 KM, don't you?

So why don't you just compare it yourself? That should be no problem! (and to add to that, the PC demo plays "the same" as the PS3 game... obviously with a keyboard instead of a pad, but there's not much of a difference)

And what does Wikipedia say about NFS:PS??

Well...


There you have it... and ooohh, what is that I found^^



Source (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=168875)


They must clearly have maken a mistake in that interview, didn't they?



Yes, of course KM, we are just bullshitting you when we say, NFS:PS is an arcade game... Really... what benefit does this bring us? Why does the PC demo play the same? Why does even the producer of NFS:PS say it is NOT a simulation??

Their own research on simulation (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21368.html) physics.

Hmmn...considering the vehicular movement and control in the demo, seems like it's pushing toward "sim" to me. Unless a sim is only categorized as so by having real courses only.

[GTAce]

Segitz, i love you. LOL

Damn cant rep you.

[section]

So pushing towards simulation aka "being a simulation" these days means having a tad less arcadey controls than your usual arcade racer?

L.o.l. I rest my case.

Anyway will eventually buy this game because it's pure joy to play :)

[Sephiroth_VII]

KM, I don't really give a damn about this whole GT vs. NFS thing. I just downloaded the demo for the hell of it, and I'm giving you my honest review of its controls.

Also, I usually play GT with all driving aids on, and I still spin out in corners once in a while.

I'm not saying I was able to get a really good position in the race I when I tried driving with the throttle permanently pressed, but I didn't go off-track in a single corner. The only reason I didn't make it to 1st place was that I kept flying off the top of the hills and doing very unrealistic barrel-rolls, but I'm sure a better driver would be able to do it, since I'm not all that good but still made it into 4th place.

Give it up, NFS is not a sim. 'it's an entertaining, well made, arcade game.

[Killing Moon]

So pushing towards simulation aka "being a simulation" these days means having a tad less arcadey controls than your usual arcade racer?

L.o.l. I rest my case.

Anyway will eventually buy this game because it's pure joy to play :)

Well considering that the number one supported “sim” here on these forums contains the marginal lowest feature for what constitutes as “being” one, let’s not start throwing stones in glass houses here.

Which also begs to wonder, what do some of you even consider a racing simulation?

[Sephiroth_VII]

I would consider a driving simulator a game which focuses on perfectly emulating the various forces applied to a vehicle, both by the engine and the environment.

A racing sim would also have to include the player driving in a race against other players or A.I, and the player tuning the car with the parts available in the real world for the specific vehicle, and them affecting the weight/power of the car as they would in the real world.

NFS fails to meet the demands of a racing sim and a driving sim by modifying real world physics to make a game closer to how the director wants it to be.

[PUNK em 733]

nd not for nothing, considering that this is EA’s FIRST racing sim, they’ve already accomplished more than what GT has for the last 10yrs. straight. Which is embarrassing, to say the least.




:look:


Ooookaayy:spit:

[VG Aficionado]

:duh:

[julps31]

Hmm...April fools come a lil early? Haha...

[Killing Moon]

So considering that OBVIOUSLY GT5 is the defacto example of a racing sim on these forums, let’s break this down according to your own logic.
I would consider a driving simulator a game which focuses on perfectly emulating the various forces applied to a vehicle, both by the engine and the environment.
So by this logic, GT fails considerably here.
Let’s take into account:
• Lack of accuracy for more than 60% of the roster in their games. Which has been pointed out by MANY sources, most importantly those who either race for a living or as a hobby. Only a select amount of vehicles are accurately portrayed, which of course are the ones marketed (the Falken Skyline, for instance).
• There are ZERO engine characteristics for Gran Turismo. Like many other games, you slap on some sort of turbo charger and “racing chip” for an upgrade. This in no way makes their expression dynamic or realistic.
• Zero environment interaction. Other than sideline cones, nothing is interactive with the vehicles and there certainly isn’t any deformation of any sort.

By this logic, GT is not a sim.

A racing sim would also have to include the player driving in a race against other players or A.I, and the player tuning the car with the parts available in the real world for the specific vehicle, and them affecting the weight/power of the car as they would in the real world.

GT fails yet again by this description. How?
• AI is all but nonexistent, even in Prologue still.
• Weight/power upgrades are done in arcade games as well. And considering that it’s been discussed and proven numerous times by gearheads online and otherwise, the upgrades in the GT series are anything but accurate. The best way to simulate power upgrades for a sim would be to use the dynamics for each vehicle’s engine and then the results for every upgrade available within the game. Not for nothing, GT gets this wrong with almost every other vehicle, with slant biases around KY’s personally favorite cars.

A couple of perfect example: a Buick GNX doesn’t top out at 600bhp with engine upgrades and EVERY car should be able to have forced induction (turbo/supercharger) upgrades.

While I can’t stand the game, I’d DEFINITELY give this feature to Forza before I’d ever give it to Gran Turismo. And even they don’t have a manner of tuning the heart of engine upgrades, the ECU.

By this logic, GT is not a sim.

Fact of the matter is, a “simulation” for racing or driving is a very meticulous and sometimes vague description. However, both examples at the very least TRY to accurately portray vehicle physics either from numerical data gained about said vehicles, or test-driven data from hands on experience. Having real courses doesn’t make a simulation in the least, but merely enhances the experience toward more of professional racing experience.

Your descriptions (which more than likely are on par with everyone else’s) are way too inflexible and leave out a lot of other games by definition.





What's my point?
Don't criticize Pro Street for not being an "accurate" (which is vague in and of itself for a videogame) sim simply because a specific version is too easy to control.

It seems pretty obvious that EA is trying to dodge the 100% "simulation" moniker so that they don't suffer from just this. Overly defensive and anal fanboys who are more easy to judge everyone else's efforts within the genre than the game they blindly support.

The fact that they're collecting as much data as possible in order to emulate the real world physics of each car within the game already proves that the game is a simulation. Other than being better in presentation and heading more toward the Tuner route, how different is their efforts from Enthusia in this respect?

Maybe it is easy to control (on PS3) in the desert map. I could be wrong.

[Jay Gee]

*hugs his copy of Ridge Racer 7*
*^____________________^*

[VG Aficionado]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiidge Raaaaaaaaaaacerrrrrrrr! (7)

It's been a while since I last played it. Hmmm...

[GTAce]

Maybe it is easy to control (on PS3) in the desert map. I could be wrong.
THEN DOWNLOAD THE FRAKING PSN DEMO

There are 2 things i cannot believe:
1. How the fuck you can call it a sim
2. In which direction this thread has gone

The next one who mentions GT in this thread gets a neg rep. >8(

[Killing Moon]

THEN DOWNLOAD THE FRAKING PSN DEMO

There are 2 things i cannot believe:
1. How the fuck you can call it a sim
2. In which direction this thread has gone

The next one who mentions GT in this thread gets a neg rep. >8(

I already DID DL it, genius. Didn't I say that previously in this thread? Hence the references to the 360 version.

[jaxmkii]

THEN DOWNLOAD THE FRAKING PSN DEMO

There are 2 things i cannot believe:
1. How the fuck you can call it a sim
2. In which direction this thread has gone

The next one who mentions GT in this thread gets a neg rep. >8(

QFT!!!

killing moon if you think NFS is a better sim than GT you need to turn off pimp my ride and go get some real track time in.

untill now i have respected your right to opinion but now your realy sounding like some on who knows nothing about cars and should not be having a opinion about what program more acurately depictates vehicle dynamics.

i have an educated opinion on this having over 11 years experance Road racing (www.racelimerockpark.com) AutoX and rallycross im currently a licenced BMW/Audi/VW master tech as well as a two season veteran of the SBRS program and still maintain my SCCA competitors status.

killing moon you are wrong about this STOP IT!

[Killing Moon]

*sigh* Whatever; I'll fold.

[masonite]

Overly defensive and anal fanboys who are more easy to judge everyone else's efforts within the genre than the game they blindly support. You do realise you've spent the entire thread jumping on anyone who's disagreed with you, right? And you've spent most of the thread judging one game on a demo, whilst telling us not to judge another game on a demo? And that you quickly claim that the toca series is the holy grail as soon as anyone so much as breathes on it?

[curryking1]

No, masonite, you're wrong, we are all clearly the anal ones, not Killing Moon.

[VG Aficionado]

Yeah, and Killing Moon doesn't (*winkwink*) deserve massive negrepping for all the over the top, bitter and derailing posts he's been making in the last year. I mean, he has plenty of time to complain about GT5, but then he sees Killzone 2, is amazed by it and then he says he's been too busy to have been paying attention to it. What a nice guy!

[OG_Monkey]

Anyone know is Drift and Drag is still in? I think Drag is still in, thats the one where they both start of and pop wheelies and shit right?

But drift better/has to be in

[GTAce]

Drift is in just like drag racing.

[OG_Monkey]

nice. so what exactly are the modes that are in this game? And what about online?

[yoshaw]

Wow, like I can't tell who's the single anal entity in this entire thread. :roll eyes:

This NFS has good graphics and smoke no doubt. But ramping on GT every chance one gets. tsk tsk

[OG_Monkey]

Wow, like I can't tell who's the single anal entity in this entire thread. :roll eyes:




...who now?

[Killing Moon]

Wow, like I can't tell who's the single anal entity in this entire thread. :roll eyes:

This NFS has good graphics and smoke no doubt. But ramping on GT every chance one gets. tsk tsk

Right---pot calling the kettle black much; as if whenever modifying a vehicle comes up in a subject, immediately all attacks go toward NFS in general. Really, as if NFS has been the only game to accomplish this. Problem is, I’m the only one really supporting this game here 100% (to no surprise, since it’s not Gran Turismo for everyone else), which then causes me to need to yell the loudest.

Eh, my fault.

Though just to prevent rattling the cage any further, I’ll fold with the notion that Pro Street is more toward BECOMING a simulation than being a definitive one. Still standing with the fact that for their first ATTEMPT at a sim (a street racing themed one, anyhow), they’re pushing harder than the competition has for the last decade or so. Other than maybe TXR, of course.

Only a few more days till release.

[PUNK em 733]

^^^

Holy shit is this dude nucking futs.

Get the white jacket, better make it two, psychosis gives you that extra crazy strength.

[masonite]

Right---pot calling the kettle black much; as if whenever modifying a vehicle comes up in a subject, immediately all attacks go toward NFS in general. Really, as if NFS has been the only game to accomplish this. Problem is, I’m the only one really supporting this game here 100% (to no surprise, since it’s not Gran Turismo for everyone else), which then causes me to need to yell the loudest.

Eh, my fault.

Though just to prevent rattling the cage any further, I’ll fold with the notion that Pro Street is more toward BECOMING a simulation than being a definitive one. Still standing with the fact that for their first ATTEMPT at a sim (a street racing themed one, anyhow), they’re pushing harder than the competition has for the last decade or so. Other than maybe TXR, of course.

Only a few more days till release.


The problem is that NFS always made the modifications the focus, and put negligible emphasis on the machines themselves. Having a "NOS" vinyl was seen as being "better" than appreciating the machine - hell, the game rewarded you for turning a beautiful machine into a disgusting, fibreglass encrusted blob of shite. GT has always been the opposite - its about appreciating the machine, not the brand names. You can modify them, but thats not the point - not having brand names increases the emphasis on the machines.

You claim GT is inaccurate because the cars don't "max out" where they should - well, no cars can theoretically max out - depending on how much money you're willing to put into it, the car can get more and more powerful. The problem is that at some point it stops being that car, and becomes something else. It all comes back to an appreciation of the machines itself - by doing engine swaps, changing all the body work, etc you're making the car faster, but you're not really racing with that car anymore. GT succeeds in that criteria because it recognises those limits. There are some mods, but they don't detract from the original emphasis being put on the car. At no point do they become the purpose of the game. NFS fails those criteria because it ignores those limits and tries to cash in on a shitty movie that spawned a legion of boy racers. If you like that, then fine, play the game you like. Just don't tell everyone a game they enjoy is shit because it appreciates the machines more than you do, or that a game that puts emphasis on body panels is better than a game that puts emphasis on the machines. You're not comparing like with like, given the criteria you're using the compare them.

No-one is asking you to fold, nor are they asking you to stop rattling the cage - by all means, do that as much as you want. Just don't cry about a game because it emphasises something you don't care about, and disregards something you do. If you don't like it then fine, but trying to "convince" everyone that what they appreciate is wrong is pointless and ignorant.

[yoshaw]

^You're talking to a funkill'n wall here, Masonite. Expect more of "dun give a shit other than my own" posts as usual. Your post was great however. +rep!

[Killing Moon]

The problem is that NFS always made the modifications the focus, and put negligible emphasis on the machines themselves. Having a "NOS" vinyl was seen as being "better" than appreciating the machine - hell, the game rewarded you for turning a beautiful machine into a disgusting, fibreglass encrusted blob of shite. GT has always been the opposite - its about appreciating the machine, not the brand names. You can modify them, but thats not the point - not having brand names increases the emphasis on the machines.

NFS hasn’t ALWAYS done anything. There were only TWO games that had this game design approach and that was Underground 1&2. Secondly, you didn’t HAVE to go ape shit with your vehicles’ visual vinyls in order to become good at the game. So right then and there, your cynical pigeonholing of the series is flawed just by the basis of what the titles’ gameplay was out the box.

As far as what EA went for, it was simply based on what’s popular at that point in time. Just the same as high priced pasta rockets and exotics were overly popular w/ the white suburban kids during the 90’s—they emphasized this w/ previous NFS’, yet no one complained. EA simply went for what was more popular at the time of the new millennium, which happens to be Tuner culture among Asians, Black and Latin kids (more or less), all thanks to a certain movie that helped the awareness boom.

You claim GT is inaccurate because the cars don't "max out" where they should - well, no cars can theoretically max out - depending on how much money you're willing to put into it, the car can get more and more powerful. The problem is that at some point it stops being that car, and becomes something else. It all comes back to an appreciation of the machines itself - by doing engine swaps, changing all the body work, etc you're making the car faster, but you're not really racing with that car anymore.

No, GT is inaccurate for MANY more reasons other than just maxing out your vehicle. Once again, pigeonholing an entire post toward one point of emphasis in your argumentative favor. Getting dull to kick the dead horse, GT is off by a large margin by how it expresses many vehicles’ characteristics, performance tweaks/upgrades and even drivetrains. Now I don’t honestly expect EVERY car to be accurate virtually, that’s simply impossible. However, when so many zealots and media claim that Polyphony’s title is completely accurate in all facets, then it becomes annoying. Then something needs to be said.

As far as appreciating the machines---get off it. No one succeeds in Gran Turismo by driving a stock-show floor model. You HAVE to upgrade and tune the vehicle way past its “natural” state in order to progress through the game. There is virtually zero difference between upgrades/tuning in GT compared to the very same approaches in TXR, NFS: Underground and dozens of other games on the market. All with the exception of one: you can’t modify the exterior.

Case in point for Turismo: modifying a ’03 BMW M3 from stock value, toward a 500hp, carbon monocoque, nitrous ridden, racing suspension version is nothing alike. The car IS drastically different from its origin completely—which puts your “Gran Turismo is about appreciating the machine” bullshit to rest. It IS a tuner game and always has been—even more emphasized in GT4 by the multitude of Japanese Tuner companies that provide you with parts (even though other than 2 differences, they’re the same parts that you can get from the game’s OEMs). The problem is that PD bullshits their way toward expressing this with a host of inaccuracies, inconsistencies and stone cold biases.

What you and a host of others on here are trying to push is that GT, as an entire game, is about nothing other than driving stock cars around a track ala the Prologue demo. Which again, is complete bullshit.


Modding your car in Underground and GT is within the same ball park, dude. The only serious differences are that NFS in the past has been an arcade game and you cannot modify the exterior in Gran Turismo. GT, Forza, TXR and the recent popular NFS’ are cut from the same cloth, contain the same mechanics, the same procedures toward success and similar end results.

There isn’t a severe difference, bottom line.
Other than Gran Turismo and Forza have about as much personality as a block of wood.


GT succeeds in that criteria because it recognises those limits. There are some mods, but they don't detract from the original emphasis being put on the car. At no point do they become the purpose of the game.

Really?

So please, do tell and even show me how you can succeed past even a ¼ of the game w/o upgrading and modding the vehicle. From its first inception, GT has been about tuning your vehicle toward racing success. Get off it---the game is not some sort of pure driving title about dull license tests and stock races. The meat of the game IS tuning to racing competitive success, simply because that’s always been an integral part of Japanese automotive culture.

NFS fails those criteria because it ignores those limits and tries to cash in on a shitty movie that spawned a legion of boy racers

Once again, get off the bullshit.

NFS did it with only TWO games, not the entire F’ing series. Most Wanted was a severe departure from that (you barely used vinyls in the game, plus they had zero emphasis on the design whatsoever) and Carbon emphasized togue drifting/racing more than anything, not to mention combining good aspects of Most Wanted into the foray.

If you’re going to criticize the games, at least be on point and up to date with what you’re talking about.

Lastly, the Fast and the Furious 1 was a HUGE eye opener for many people unaware of the tuner culture. Other than being dramatic, there wasn’t much unrealistic about the flick, which contained a shit load of cars by people actually involved within the culture. The leagues of ricers after that had shit to do with the movie; it's only due to the problem that most Americans and others alike are fucking morons and soak up pop culture.

How funny and ironic is it that the game being played TWICE in the movie by RJ Vera and Michelle Rodriguez was what?!

Gran Turismo 2!!

Which is, guess what---a fucking tuner game that’s actually appreciated by many tuning enthisiasts [at one time].

*gasp*

No-one is asking you to fold, nor are they asking you to stop rattling the cage - by all means, do that as much as you want. Just don't cry about a game because it emphasises something you don't care about, and disregards something you do. If you don't like it then fine, but trying to "convince" everyone that what they appreciate is wrong is pointless and ignorant.

My point about Gran Turismo is simple.

Stop deluding yourselves about it being this all singing, all dancing, high pedestal, Holy Grail of a simulation, when it’s actually not very different (and not even much better) from so many other titles on the market other than through popularity of name.

Truthfully, that’s really my only beef about the game on this forum. If it wasn’t so overrated for being more than what it really is, I probably wouldn’t shout about it so much.





LOL

I mean, really, let’s get raw about it: what’s the real difference between this game and Halo? They’re both heavily marketed, mainstream games that are pushed publicly to be more than the sum of their parts in a sea of other more superior titles.

Gran Turismo IS the Halo of the PlayStation.



...and I'm spent.

[GTShotoKen]

Damn KM, although I still love GT more from a personal preference; I have to give you props man for dishing out a really well thought out argument.

You support your reasoning very well, much respect. :)

[lips]

this game really chocked on my pc. basically, aa is out of the question even on 8800 card. I hope it is much better on ps3; most wanted was pretty good, but nfs:c was the beginning of a death spiral for the series in my mind.

[Segitz]

Well now^^

As this is not a GT thread, I will keep it short, and show you, why I prefer GT over NFS.

First of all, starting with GT1, the selection of cars is massive. No other game for its time had that many cars and had a fun game underneath. The tuner option also was avant garde for its time. GT2 - GT4 built up on this formula. Not always in the best way (not too many drastic changes, bad AI...), but the fun was always there and the graphics always were top notch.

To put it very short. For me, GT is one of the most fun racing/driving games there is.

NFS was once a great racing game. NFS1 was THE best racing game in... '95 iirc. Then there was the problemchild NFS2... Well, it sucked, but I can forgive a good game. NFS3 4 and 5 where good and Porsche was THE BEST in the series. Then came Underground (or rather TFTF) and then, everything went downhill. Yearly releases with little to no innovation. Bad selection of cars (imho) and dumb story lines (dumb is an understatement here). MW was a better one, but again, dumb storyline nobody cared about^^ Carbon, I won't mention this one at all... It was just a mess imho. And judging from the demo and the trailers, PS won't be better either (imho!!!). It is just so... soulless and uninspirational. It lacks every appeal the "real" driving/racing games have (I mean like GT, FM and even PGR or Test Drive).

[masonite]

Alright, i did have a fairly long post written up, but segitz is right, this isn't the place. Although if anyone wants to see it, im sure i can bring it back ;)


Segitz hit the nail on the head though, so i'll leave it at that.


KM, i will share one thing with you about why people don't seem to be very friendly to you:
Its because of your attitude towards anyone who doesn't share your belief. Above all, the most incredible thing is that in trying to convince everyone else how stupid they are, you've made even more radical claims about games such as GTR, NFS and TOCA. In order to try and show how overrated GT is, you've overrated other games beyond comprehension. I've intentionally made small references to TOCA in my posts over time, and you've taken the bait predictably - i don't believe you've missed an opportunity to claim the greatness of TOCA. To claim other people somehow don't understand cars because of they think GT is a good game is the ultimate hypocrisy, as your attitude towards other games is no less radical - and to make matters worse, you've been sucked in by your own hype - many people simply don't have the extreme love you claim they have - their defensive posts are due to your attitude, rather than their views.

[GTAce]

@all: :whogives:

[Killing Moon]

Well now^^

As this is not a GT thread, I will keep it short, and show you, why I prefer GT over NFS.

First of all, starting with GT1, the selection of cars is massive. No other game for its time had that many cars and had a fun game underneath. The tuner option also was avant garde for its time. GT2 - GT4 built up on this formula. Not always in the best way (not too many drastic changes, bad AI...), but the fun was always there and the graphics always were top notch.

To put it very short. For me, GT is one of the most fun racing/driving games there is.

NFS was once a great racing game. NFS1 was THE best racing game in... '95 iirc. Then there was the problemchild NFS2... Well, it sucked, but I can forgive a good game. NFS3 4 and 5 where good and Porsche was THE BEST in the series. Then came Underground (or rather TFTF) and then, everything went downhill. Yearly releases with little to no innovation. Bad selection of cars (imho) and dumb story lines (dumb is an understatement here). MW was a better one, but again, dumb storyline nobody cared about^^ Carbon, I won't mention this one at all... It was just a mess imho. And judging from the demo and the trailers, PS won't be better either (imho!!!). It is just so... soulless and uninspirational. It lacks every appeal the "real" driving/racing games have (I mean like GT, FM and even PGR or Test Drive).


Hmmn, the way you broke this down, I can respect your view, dude. I can't argue w/ how Carbon was sloppily put together. Smooth in some areas, but yeah--did feel rushed.

Y'know I've STILL yet to play Porsche Unleashed. I keep running into it, but keep missing it.

Agree to disagree on the your GT notion though. Turismo seems to be dragging its feet with building off of their foundation. I STILL find myself playing GT2 on PC emulator and having more fun and more depth to the entire package than GT3 and 4 combined.




Okay, with the exception of obvious technological advances.
Cool post, BTW.

[OG_Monkey]

comes out this week right?

[LaLiLuLeLo]

If that's true I sure as hell am gonna miss it. Assassin's Creed bitch!

[killermmn]

If that's true I sure as hell am gonna miss it. Assassin's Creed bitch!


assassin what:huh::huh::huh:

[Smokey]

hell, the game rewarded you for turning a beautiful machine into a disgusting, fibreglass encrusted blob of shite.
Noo.. masonite this hit the nail on the head lol

[GTAce]

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/27731.html?type=

360 version is way sharper.
EA messed it up again a bit but thats the only difference i noticed.
The graphics overall seems to be the same but the PS3 version looks like it has a filter on.
Reminds me of the effect you could switch on and off in the 3 GTA games from the last generation. lol

[Segitz]

I didn't find it to be much different (360 and PS3)... But I only had a small glimpse at the video, no thorough look...

What I did see was that the reflections where different on the bonnet and such, but the rest was virtually identical on first look...

Yeah, maybe they are different, maybe the PS3 version is slightly worse, but then again, if the difference is negligible, then it is not that bad (or rather a step up for EA^^). Judging from the demo, it at least runs at no slow downs^^

[PUNK em 733]

A 6.8 for the "GT KillA"


GT am cry. (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/834/834795p1.html)

[nemesis121]

A 6.8 for the "GT KillA"


GT am cry. (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/834/834795p1.html)


After playing that Demo i thought it was ok, so i am not surprised by that score.

[VG Aficionado]

A 6.8 for the "GT KillA"


GT am cry. (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/834/834795p1.html)

:lol:

[Killing Moon]

Youch.

[PUNK em 733]

Youch.



To say the least.

[cliffbo]

well, judging by those comparison pics, the 360 definitely looks sharper. i'd be interested to find out whether they test both on the same TV and use the same cables

[OG_Monkey]

PS3-360 comparison HD

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/27731.html

but anyway, i dont think i really like what they did with NFS this year....

[GTAce]

http://forums.e-mpire.com/showpost.php?p=1736724&postcount=117 :-p

[OG_Monkey]

...always gotta still my shine >_>

Review HD:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/27735.html

[GTAce]

:lol: Thanks for the link.

Okay im a bit surprised about the scores because i had fun with the demo and will rent it at least for sure.
I actually think the scores are to low.

[OG_Monkey]

i think they are just where it needs to be, but imma still get it

[Killing Moon]

Wow, I liked the Gametrailers review (as usual). 7.7, but a completely fair and detailed review---which is rare in this day and age.

Still got my order lined up.

[OG_Monkey]

So i got this game...hate to say it...i really dont like it

They are trying to hard to "fit in". They shouldve kept the same old NFS we liked. EA is still slipping on this series.

But online is pretty fun, thats where its really at.