2009 Corvette ZR-1

[PUNK em 733]

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/corvette-photos/data/723/medium/2009_corvette_zr1_26.jpg


http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/corvette-photos/data/723/medium/2009_corvette_zr1_40.jpg



Ferrari am cry. (http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1022772#post1022772)


100K for Enzo performance. Admittedly it'll prolly go for close to 200K with dealer mark ups.

[GTAce]

:drool::drool::drool::drool::drool:

[Smokey]

Nice :)

[speed stick]

I have to say it looks much better then the previous ones. And thats a good thing :)

[The Dude]

Thanks, now I have a boner that will not go away for weeks.


http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff198/USACORVETTECLUB/2009%20ZR-1/x09ch_cr047.jpg




EDIT: Fuck me it still has leaf springs!:realmad::realmad::realmad::realmad:

[Smokey]

EDIT: Fuck me it still has leaf springs!

really? LMFAO

[PUNK em 733]

Leaf springs, so what, it will still rape 99% of cars ever made.

[speed stick]

^If it rapes 99% now then it would rape 100% of them if it had a independent.

[masonite]

Do the vettes still use leaf springs at le mans? or are they allowed to convert to something made after the end of the cretaceous period?

[PUNK em 733]

True about the independent, but the leaf springs are a corvette signature, I think it'll do just fine with them.

[Smokey]

and i thought GM (holden) using pushrod was behind enough. but ill admit it still shits on fords OHC motors. but leaf springs is a joke really...

[PUNK em 733]

and i thought GM (holden) using pushrod was behind enough. but ill admit it still shits on fords OHC motors. but leaf springs is a joke really...

Why are pushrods behind? DOHCs are older tech then that. Pushrods are a joke pssh, Best V8s are made by GM. Remember this kiddies pushrods as a package are overall lighter, smaller packages that are in general super reliable. Leaf springs are such a joke then why did the Z06 post a 7.42 at the ring? Better than all but, if I'm not mistaken then all except for two or three other production cars.

But with talk like this I can see ppl have no clue when it comes to car tech.:wave:


* 505 horsepower / 475 lb.-ft. torque
* Racing technology transfer takes production engine performance to new heights
* Racing-derived CNC-ported aluminum cylinder heads
* Each engine assembled by hand by a single, specially-trained builder
* 505 horsepower @ 6200 rpm
* 475 lb.-ft. of torque @ 4800 rpm
* 7000-rpm redline
* Unique engine block with larger 104.8-mm (4.125-inch) bores and pressed-in cylinder liners
* Forged steel crankshaft with 101.6-mm (4-inch) stroke
* Titanium connecting rods
* Cast aluminum flat-top pistons
* Racing-derived CNC-ported aluminum cylinder heads with titanium intake valves and sodium-filled exhaust valves
* Dry-sump oiling system
* 11.0:1 compression ratio
* Camshaft with 15-mm (.591-inch) lift
* Hydroformed exhaust headers with unique "quad flow" collector flanges.


Sounds like a joke to me...HA..HA.

Oh well I should have known it's an American car. This always happens when talking about them. A prime example is the CTS-V, ppl complain it's heavy at about 4,000 lbs, but an M5 which weighs more, is usually given a pass on this and it's virtues praised to high heaven. Funny since a previous gen CTS-V beat an previous gen M3 and M5 in a mag comparison on a track about 4 yrs ago. I have the mag right in front of me.

[Smokey]

you sound a bit upset PUNK em 733, dont be i concour about the pushrod V8s not a four banger though. to me 'leaf' springs is like having a 3speed auto nowdays. but if they make it work.. they make it work. my pet hate is struts. a 1979 gemini with wishbone frontend can out handle some of the newer cars nowdays cause 99% of em use struts, absolute cheap crap suspension.

[PUNK em 733]

you sound a bit upset PUNK em 733, dont be i concour about the pushrod V8s not a four banger though. to me 'leaf' springs is like having a 3speed auto nowdays. but if they make it work.. they make it work. my pet hate is struts. a 1979 gemini with wishbone frontend can out handle some of the newer cars nowdays cause 99% of em use struts, absolute cheap crap suspension.

Not upset, more like frustrated. I hear ya about struts, though that example may be a bit extreme.

[PSXBatou]

A Ferrari Enzo is around 1,000,000 USD for a reason, and its much more than a motor spec. The Enzo is more car than that vette would ever hope to be.

Furthermore comparing a Chevy to a Ferrari is about the same as comparing a Kia to a Mercedes.

Where does it beat it again, other than price (which isn't too hard to accomplish given the 1m tag)?

Ferrari Enzo
Engine dohc 48V V-12
Bore x stroke 92.0 x 75.2 mm
Displacement 5998 cc
Compression ratio 11.2:1
Horsepower (SAE) 660 bhp @ 7800 rpm
Torque 484 lb-ft @ 5500 rpm
Fuel delivery elect. sequential port
Transmission 6-sp sequential manual

Impressive specs, but Chevy could have done a lot better imo. No way its worth what they will sell for though imo.

[cpiasminc]

Do the vettes still use leaf springs at le mans? or are they allowed to convert to something made after the end of the cretaceous period?
I believe on the race circuits, they do use conventional independent coilovers and what not, or so I've heard -- it would make sense that for those types of applications quick adjustability is pretty important. The aftermarket is certainly happy with the leaf springs, though -- it means there's a big market for suspension mods for the C6. There are a lot of aftermarket bolt-in coilover conversion kits the new Corvettes, and they're unsurprisingly big sellers.

Why are pushrods behind? DOHCs are older tech then that. Pushrods are a joke pssh, Best V8s are made by GM. Remember this kiddies pushrods as a package are overall lighter, smaller packages that are in general super reliable.
The flaw of pushrods is just loss of motion and energy, really. The main problem is you've got a cam moving one thing, which moves another which moves another which finally moves the valves... several points for energy loss and the differences in leverage and many points of contact means points for loss of motion and multiple friction points in the chain from cam to valve. OHC designs don't have this problem, which makes them significantly more efficient in the end.

Of course, pushrods are simpler and easier to understand, and easier to upgrade, whereas DOHC is complicated and has much tighter working tolerances, which in turn is a real source of difficulties. In the days of Duesenbergs and Morgans, reliability of DOHC was definitely a problem. And you'd expect that because more cams that needed more complex factors to consider in their profiles means more potential failure points. It's why electromechanical valve actuation (which is theoretically superior to either option) will probably never happen. Nowadays, that's harder to argue. Manufacturing tolerances for everything are far tighter than they used to be, and so standing up to what OHC needs is comparatively easy (hell, look at the fuel pump on the C6). There are plenty of OHC engine designs even in mass production where the product lines actually have a zero failure record.

to me 'leaf' springs is like having a 3speed auto nowdays. but if they make it work.. they make it work. my pet hate is struts. a 1979 gemini with wishbone frontend can out handle some of the newer cars nowdays cause 99% of em use struts, absolute cheap crap suspension.
What's funny about the C6 is that it uses a transverse composite leaf spring, which requires specialized packaging and having to rework the locations of a lot of things underneath the car, and the use of composite materials in order to achieve the desired spring rate means that ultimately, the rear suspension layout they chose is actually more expensive than a simpler coil/multilink suspension.

I think it just works out for the Corvette because it means less unsprung weight and lower center of gravity.

[PUNK em 733]

Impressive specs, but Chevy could have done a lot better imo. No way its worth what they will sell for though imo.

The specsI posted were for the Z06. Funny you say that, when the brake systew alnoe is around 20-25K. So the brakes alone would warrant the increase from the Z to the 100K ZR1. Though with markups it will hit prolly close to 200K.

[GTAce]

jhPFggwiLwk&e

[masonite]

what sort of changes to camber or spring rate are there in leaf spring setups compared to coilovers under load? i would've thought coilovers had a more consistent feel as load changed. cpi?

[cpiasminc]

what sort of changes to camber or spring rate are there in leaf spring setups compared to coilovers under load? i would've thought coilovers had a more consistent feel as load changed. cpi?
My first intuition about spring rate for a leaf spring stems from the fact that buckling formations tends to have degenerate geometry conditions meaning you can have a consistent spring rate up until you reach a certain angle of deflection where the spring rate can suddenly change to extremely high or extremely low (depending on which direction we're talking about). The generic solution to this, though, is multi-leaf springs. The C6 has a monoleaf, but it's a composite material base rather than all-metal, which suggests to me that there are sufficiently many layers inside that it's effectively like having a multi-leaf spring, and maybe even gives you some minor level of progressive spring rate(?).

The thing about the transverse layout of the C6 leaf spring is that it does have a fixed center mount that effectively isolates the two sides, making it behave like independent suspension. I'm not sure what the receiving mount on the wheel end is like, though. If those mounts are fixed to the axle housing, then you're basically guaranteed that extra load will give you more negative camber. If those receiving mounts are hinged loop hangers, then you can eliminate most all camber under *expected* load ranges, but you introduce a weak point in the suspension. Still, for a car as light as a Corvette, it's hardly an issue I'd think.

[Smokey]

even typing 'leaf' springs pains me to a degree :)

[PUNK em 733]

even typing 'leaf' springs pains me to a degree :)


Awesome dude.:moon:

This car will obliterate most, if not all of your favorite cars. The end.:wave::devious:

[Smokey]

well the cars i like are based on mass produced family sedans so yeah no doubt. but even they use fully independant suspension :). itll be good when HSV starts using the 7litre ls7 i think as it will do 0-100ks in 4.7 secs not bad for a 1800kg family car :)

[masonite]

ah ok, cheers, thanks for that CPI. I still have trouble understanding why chev went through all the trouble of developing a brand new leaf spring design that mimicked IRS instead of just using IRS. Ditto with the new mustang. Its like the dinosaur olympics - who can recreate the most arcane suspension system and make it act like a modern one.

[cpiasminc]

I'm sure there's a certain level of just "if it ain't broke" mentality to it since every Corvette since the C2 has had that same suspension layout. On top of that, since it can effectively make it act like IRS as well as an anti-roll bar and its supposedly lighter, I guess that's enough for them.

[Xer0]

ah ok, cheers, thanks for that CPI. I still have trouble understanding why chev went through all the trouble of developing a brand new leaf spring design that mimicked IRS instead of just using IRS. Ditto with the new mustang. Its like the dinosaur olympics - who can recreate the most arcane suspension system and make it act like a modern one.

To be fair on the Mustang's side, I don’t think Ford really even tried.

As for the Corvette, its an odd case; Its advocates say that even despite its "old" OHV engine and "simple" leaf spring set up it dominates cars were as its opponents don’t look at it simply because they regard it as "cheap". Both are wrong. Its engine is just as advanced as anything out there and its suspension is equally complicated, baring its interior, this isnt some cheaply made car.

[masonite]

oh its definately not some cheaply made car, we have chev's OHV engines here in australia and they're the hottest things we've got. But they certainly lack the polish of their competitors. And even if its capable of smashing its opponents, the question still remains whether such feats are achievable with mere mortals behind the wheel. Some cars (including some stereotypical supercars it must be said - im looking at you every lambo built until audi took over) really needed extremely skilled drivers to prevent them from being disassembled at 150mph with a concrete spanner.

[PUNK em 733]

What mere "mortal" can drive any supercar at their limits?? I could give tow flying feces about a lack of polish. The small block chevy is one of the most reliable pieces of machinery in history. I can certainly deal with a lack of polish, esp since that extra cost of polish means you have to deal with breakdowns that cost an arm, and a leg.

[Xer0]

oh its definately not some cheaply made car, we have chev's OHV engines here in australia and they're the hottest things we've got. But they certainly lack the polish of their competitors. And even if its capable of smashing its opponents, the question still remains whether such feats are achievable with mere mortals behind the wheel. Some cars (including some stereotypical supercars it must be said - im looking at you every lambo built until audi took over) really needed extremely skilled drivers to prevent them from being disassembled at 150mph with a concrete spanner.

The corvette, the Z06 in particular, has been described as scary at the limit and needing a really big set of balls to drive at its full potential. I think they did change the suspension around a bit to make it not as twitchy in the MY2008 facelift. However assuming you had Joe schmo driving, he would probably put up better numbers in something like a 911 or Viper then a Corvette, well Z06 at least, the regular Vette doesnt have the same problems.

[Smokey]

What mere "mortal" can drive any supercar at their limits?? I could give tow flying feces about a lack of polish. The small block chevy is one of the most reliable pieces of machinery in history. I can certainly deal with a lack of polish, esp since that extra cost of polish means you have to deal with breakdowns that cost an arm, and a leg.

it is an awsome pushrod motor. thats one of the things i hate today is cars are loosing their "gruffness" its all about millisecond auto gears changes & not feeling it. motors that idle like theyre not running. i like a whack in up/downchange if in auto. maybe thats why i love manuals can be as smooth or necksnapping as ya want when ya whack a gear. when i get myself another Commodore/ute i will be camming it CIA, full system & shorter diff gears just to rough it up and give it a bit more poke.
wait for smoothness when we are stuck with electric cars

[PUNK em 733]

The corvette, the Z06 in particular, has been described as scary at the limit and needing a really big set of balls to drive at its full potential. I think they did change the suspension around a bit to make it not as twitchy in the MY2008 facelift. However assuming you had Joe schmo driving, he would probably put up better numbers in something like a 911 or Viper then a Corvette, well Z06 at least, the regular Vette doesnt have the same problems.


Let's not start spewing feces, just cause we don't like a car/or a paticular thing about said car. The C5 Z06s were awesome handling machines, that were quite easy to handle, yet I'll admit the first yr or so the C6 Z06 was skittish at the limits. But the '07 and fixed that with a slight retune of the suspension, I think it was the shocks actually, though I can't be 100% sure. I think they were a tad too stiff, so over mid corner bumps, the car was described as almost as if it was a skipping stone. Wasn't major but it was there.

[Xer0]

Let's not start spewing feces, just cause we don't like a car/or a paticular thing about said car. The C5 Z06s were awesome handling machines, that were quite easy to handle, yet I'll admit the first yr or so the C6 Z06 was skittish at the limits. But the '07 and fixed that with a slight retune of the suspension, I think it was the shocks actually, though I can't be 100% sure. I think they were a tad too stiff, so over mid corner bumps, the car was described as almost as if it was a skipping stone. Wasn't major but it was there.

So let me get this straight, your agreeing that they were scary to drive at the limits and that the facelift (it was the 08MY btw, not the 07's) fixed most of it, just like i said, yet, your trying to tell me im bullshitting? Not once did i say it didnt handle well either, just that it was scary to drive balls out, and btw, the C6 is the first generation Corvette that actually handles well enough that it compares to porsches and the like, the C5 not so much. Really, dont start an argument when there isnt one.

[PUNK em 733]

So let me get this straight, your agreeing that they were scary to drive at the limits and that the facelift (it was the 08MY btw, not the 07's) fixed most of it, just like i said, yet, your trying to tell me im bullshitting? Not once did i say it didnt handle well either, just that it was scary to drive balls out, and btw, the C6 is the first generation Corvette that actually handles well enough that it compares to porsches and the like, the C5 not so much. Really, dont start an argument when there isnt one.



SO the C6 Zs can handle, but the C5s are garbage?!:lol:


Okay man, you win.:spit:

[Xer0]

SO the C6 Zs can handle, but the C5s are garbage?!:lol:


Okay man, you win.:spit:

Quick, pick out the phrase "handles like garbage" in
Corvette that actually handles well enough that it compares to porsches and the like, the C5 not so much

Oh shit, you cant! Damn, that blows.

The C5 handled well for its price, the C6 handles well regardless of its price, notice the difference?

[Smokey]

damn punkem you get upset so easily

[PUNK em 733]

damn punkem you get upset so easily

Not really I just hate ignorance. The C5 is what put the Vette on a world class level, the C6 refines the formula.

One more, final question, can a Z51 C6 out handle a C5 Z? I gotta see this...


I could bring tons of data just googling, but what's the point?

[masonite]

Punk em, some cars are easier to drive at their limit than others. Some can be pushed confidently, others will bite. Some are forgiving, some are not. A car designed from the top down, with billions invested in it, to be an incredible, track focused supercar, will be easier to drive than a coupe with a massive donk slapped in it in order to try and make it perform like a supercar. In the hands of a pro, both cars will perform at their limit, in the hands of a buyer, (who, in all honesty, will probably have more money than sense) one car will give warning one will not.

The bottom line is, a traditional supercar is amazing because it's designed entirely for its purpose. Sacrifices are made in order to achieve the goal, and handling is one of those goals.

Now you can take a standard car, and modify it, and it'll be cheaper, and on paper look just as good, but when it comes to driving it, it'll be a completely different beast.

It's all about what the design was intended for. the AE86 isn't a cult car because it can be modified, its a cult car because the chassis can handle the modifications.

So the vette c6 can go around the nurburgring in a 7:42. How does that compare to the cars around it? look at the Porsche GT3. Both cars are within a tenth of each other. Now that sounds pretty impressive for a vette, eh? but what if we look at the specs? The vette pumps out a massive 515 bhp, in a 1450kg package. The porsche has 1440kg - very similar - but pumps out a relatively measly 415ps (1ps is slightly less than a hp - so the figure in hp would be slightly lower). And don't even mention torque - the gt3 manages a measly 299lb/ft, to the corvette's stump pulling 424 lb/ft. But if those power and torque figures are so heavily biased towards the vette, why are the times so similar? because the porsche is built around a 3.6L boxer, designed to handle as well as it possibly can - without destroying the handling with excess power. The Vette is the brute strength method of tackling the nurburgring - lose a bunch of time through the tight and tricky stuff and pray its got enough legs to pull it all back through the straight. You've been telling us how perful it is, how great the motor is, how its got so much more power than anything else - but thats exactly what the problem is. The normal vette doesn't have the problems with twitchiness and unforgivingness that the C6 has because the chassis can handle the power. Another good example would be the 996 GT2. They didn't call it the widowmaker for nothing...

Personally i'd rather have a car thats fun through the corners, that depends on me driving it properly, rather than a car that relies on stuffing a big donk between the front wheels and pulling its way back to the competition on a straight.

Punkem, you might not care about polish, but thats easy to say when you're looking at specs on a website. When you've got the money to buy one, spending hundreds of grand on a car that looks, and feels like a rent a car tends to detract from the experience. Especially when the car corners like a rentacar too. Whats the use of all that "performance" if you need a formula 3000 trophy in order to use it?

Let's not start spewing feces, just cause we don't like a car/or a paticular thing about said car.
As far as i can see you're the one getting worked up here. People aren't going to give you any slack when you start laughing at their opinions and acting facetious.

i like a whack in up/downchange if in auto. You should drive my VW Polo ;)

[PUNK em 733]

Uh huh, right I see yeah you got me.

[jaxmkii]

^If it rapes 99% now then it would rape 100% of them if it had a independent.

its a 4link monleaf independent. not what your thinkin. actually best setup you can use low mass

[cpiasminc]

its a 4link monleaf independent. not what your thinkin. actually best setup you can use low mass
I wouldn't be quick to say "best"... Yes, it's low mass and lower unsprung weight and potentially lower center of gravity, but it's higher cost, lower flexibility in use cases, needs specialized packaging, not adjustable at all (without introducing weak points in the suspension link geometry, that is), it's 100% car-specific, and it exhibits very slow (near linear) damping behavior which may not be an issue for most normal driving, but for performance applications, it has the potential to hurt you badly. Also being transversely mounted means it's inherently at greater risk of heat damage and chemical damage (this wouldn't be true if you weren't using them... on an automobile)... which means that you either need to use more expensive materials and shielding, or you need to be very restrictive in your under-vehicle layout of pretty much everything.

The single most important advantage that coil springs have over leaf springs is that they are easily adaptable to just about any application, and they are such a commodity that you can easily find something to suit your application.

[GTAce]

:worthy::worthy::worthy: (http://ultimatecarpage.com/car/3603/Chevrolet-C6-Corvette-Z06-427-Special-Edition.html)