Defrag?

[cliffbo]

Does the PS3 automatically defrag the hard drive or do you have to do it manually? if so, how?

[LaLiLuLeLo]

No idea if that ever even is an issue. the manual option isn't there so I'm presuming it just flushes itself when you turn it off.

askin some ol' crazy mess.

[Khaos]

Defragmentation isn't required by all types of file systems. Usually Windows file systems such as FAT and NTFS require it, while others (ones used by Linux and Macs) do fine without it. I am going to guess that since there's no option for it, the PS3's file system does not require it.

[Zer0-Sum]

I was wondering about this too. Is the PS3 like Ubuntu were as it just automatically compacts it's sectors on the HD, or is it like Windows were as it is just a jumbled mess of crap on the HD? If it becomes too disorganized it will start to get inefficient searching for data. What is the deal?

[VG Aficionado]

I'd say that PS3 either uses one of the file systems it recognises on external drives or an open source one, but I have no idea which one. I'm not sure how big can files be either, which would help to identify it. Games like Heavenly Sword install a 2+ GB file with game content, so I'd guess the limit is 4 GB or bigger. However, I know other games can install more than 5 GB of content. I have no idea whether it's more than a single file or whether it's the OS that shows it as a single file no matter what it really is, so who knows. I guess cpiasminc could shed some light on this.

[cliffbo]

I'd say that PS3 either uses one of the file systems it recognises on external drives or an open source one, but I have no idea which one. I'm not sure how big can files be either, which would help to identify it. Games like Heavenly Sword install a 2+ GB file with game content, so I'd guess the limit is 4 GB or bigger. However, I know other games can install more than 5 GB of content. I have no idea whether it's more than a single file or whether it's the OS that shows it as a single file no matter what it really is, so who knows. I guess cpiasminc could shed some light on this.

surely though, there has to be some degree of defrag?! if i downloaded four trailers, then deleted the second one, that would leave a small hole (LOL... you know what i mean) if you repeat this continuously, then surely data will get fragmented.

[VG Aficionado]

Well, that's what would happen with FAT and NTFS filesystems, but that's not so much the case with ext3 and HFS Plus. There has to be some fragmentation, but whether it's serious or not we don't know. Unless you can find someone's analysis on PS3's HDD fragmentation or someone tells us what filesystem it uses, we won't know for sure.

[Zer0-Sum]

surely though, there has to be some degree of defrag?! if i downloaded four trailers, then deleted the second one, that would leave a small hole (LOL... you know what i mean) if you repeat this continuously, then surely data will get fragmented.

Hells yah it will, unless it is like Ubuntu. From what I understand that OS(and other Linux distros) automatically compact the data on the HD.

[Khaos]

surely though, there has to be some degree of defrag?! if i downloaded four trailers, then deleted the second one, that would leave a small hole (LOL... you know what i mean) if you repeat this continuously, then surely data will get fragmented.

Fragmentation occurs when a single file is scattered across the hard disk. If each of those trailers is taking up a continuous amount of space, then the other three will still be unfragmented regardless if you delete one or not. That hole would be taken up when you download and save another file.

Linux and Mac filesystems store data efficiently, doing away with the need to ever defragment, unlike Windows. There is still fragmentation, but nowhere near the degree that it occurs on Windows filesystems.

[Zer0-Sum]

Fragmentation occurs when a single file is scattered across the hard disk. If each of those trailers is taking up a continuous amount of space, then the other three will still be unfragmented regardless if you delete one or not. That hole would be taken up when you download and save another file.

Linux and Mac filesystems store data efficiently, doing away with the need to ever defragment, unlike Windows. There is still fragmentation, but nowhere near the degree that it occurs on Windows filesystems.

Yes, but this is not MAC nor it is Linux. It is PS3 and we don't know how it handles the data. And even if he just deletes the files and it leaves the "holes" in the file system, the next time he downloads a file it will use that empty space. Then the empty space will be used. if the new data is not the same size as the "hole" it will most likely be split up between different spaces that are free on the HD. Thus fragmentation happens.

[cliffbo]

Fragmentation occurs when a single file is scattered across the hard disk. If each of those trailers is taking up a continuous amount of space, then the other three will still be unfragmented regardless if you delete one or not. That hole would be taken up when you download and save another file.

Linux and Mac filesystems store data efficiently, doing away with the need to ever defragment, unlike Windows. There is still fragmentation, but nowhere near the degree that it occurs on Windows filesystems.

but if the new file is larger than the hole, that file would get fragmented

[cliffbo]

this explains a system that may well be in the PS3

http://www.ufsexplorer.com/inf_linux_undelete.php

http://geekblog.oneandoneis2.org/index.php/2006/08/17/why_doesn_t_linux_need_defragmenting

[VG Aficionado]

What if the file is store somewhere else rather than in that hole? I mean, a good file system would prevent fragmentation by storing it where it should rather than in the first hole it finds.

this explains a system that may well be in the PS3

http://www.ufsexplorer.com/inf_linux_undelete.php
You can't say that considering Linux is installed in a different partition, which could have a different file system than the one the PS3 OS uses.

[woundingchaney]

Fragmentation occurs regardless and I would imagine there is some innate way in which the PS3 runs a defrag on the disk while not in operation. Do we even know what file system the PS3 uses??

Given that this is a device intended for years of usage one would expect there to be some sort of defragmenting ability.

[cliffbo]

Fragmentation occurs regardless and I would imagine there is some innate way in which the PS3 runs a defrag on the disk while not in operation. Do we even know what file system the PS3 uses??

Given that this is a device intended for years of usage one would expect there to be some sort of defragmenting ability.

i don't think it needs to defrag:

this is all i could find


http://geekblog.oneandoneis2.org/index.php/2006/08/17/why_doesn_t_linux_need_defragmenting

[woundingchaney]

Regardless once the disk reaches a certain level of use fragmentation will become problematic and defragmenting will be needed (to what extent depends). Scattering the location of data will of course lead to less of a need for defragmenting as gaps are generally larger and more able to accomodate more data spaces. The PS3 uses the HDD often and in various storage space scenarios with relatively little disk space given the time frame usage of the console (5+ years) I would still believe that some level of defragmentation on the PS3 is used, it simply isnt done through the user. Though to be honest I simply dont know.


Factor in the ever growing online distribution of content I cant see how the HDD wouldnt become fragmented over time.

After all Sony is banking on a 40 gig hdd currently and has released as little as 20 gig in the past.

[Khaos]

Yes, but this is not MAC nor it is Linux. It is PS3 and we don't know how it handles the data. And even if he just deletes the files and it leaves the "holes" in the file system, the next time he downloads a file it will use that empty space. Then the empty space will be used. if the new data is not the same size as the "hole" it will most likely be split up between different spaces that are free on the HD. Thus fragmentation happens.

but if the new file is larger than the hole, that file would get fragmented

Linux and Mac filesystems store data efficiently, doing away with the need to ever defragment, unlike Windows. There is still fragmentation, but nowhere near the degree that it occurs on Windows filesystems.

I would have to say that, since there is no defragmentation utility on the PS3, you can expect that their filesystem utilizes a Linux-type approach to file handling. If not, then that would a truly idiotic move on Sony's part. Running a defrag utility in the background during times of non-use is more impractical (what happens if the user powers on the console while it's defragging?).

[VG Aficionado]

An active silent defragger is impractical simply because it would screw up thousands of average Joe's PS3s periodically. A filesystem that prevents fragmentation somehow is the way to go, although an user controlled defragging utility would be nice in a forthcoming firmware upgrade if necessary.

[Zer0-Sum]

I just hope it is set up like Linux. (fingers crossed) Fragmentation would not really be an issues then at all.

[woundingchaney]

Fragmentation on such a drive structure wouldnt be as rescource heavy though. Why wouldnt it be possible to defragment in the background and simply end defragmentation once a heavy application is launched. Defragmenting could even be done after installs or other scenarios without a user's knowledge of it.

[TimmyJ]

Or is there some chance that HDD defragging could be a part of firmware updates?

If the PS3 uses a file system that requires little to no defragging then surely defragging would take a minimal amount of time, thereby making firmware updates an ideal chance to perform what is effectively a necessary function.

If this is the case then it's unlikely that we'll see a defragging option until close to the end of the PS3's life.

[Red_Eyes]

Defrag is done before you download a file and during installation, if neccessary. Only the neccessary files will be defrag.

I noticed...
I try to download a file. Either it starts downloading immediately or PS3 will display a please wait message for around 30 seconds before it starts downloading. During that waiting period before it starts downloading, the hard drive usage indicator LED is blinking. The conclusion is that the PS3 is defragging and moving files around to get enough nonfragment space for the to-be-download file.

[Sephiroth_VII]

Possible.

[Khaos]

Possible, but it could be accessing the hard drive for many other reasons. I think defragmenting large files found on the PS3 would take longer than 30 seconds though.

[woundingchaney]

Wouldnt that depend primarily upon the size of the initial file.

PS3 installs are know to take a good bit of time (given the size of the install) it may be possible that the PS3 defragments before the install phase. With the processing power of the cell this could cut down on typical defrag time and it would be the only large app. running thus leaving a reasonable amount of system rescources.

Well now I really want to know about the PS3 defrag situation. :)

[Zer0-Sum]

Is there no where to find out? Sony provides no info on this subject at all? I looked around on the internet and could find nothing....

[digital neXus]

Really, there is no info about PS3 defrag. Only questions, and simmilar answers......"we need defrag util for PS3"..and of course........"chkdsk" (hope fully functional for hardware/bad sector search/repair) :D

PS3 is sure in some kind of format, OS/Linux type......who cares. (works awesome).
But defrag/chkdsk util is really useful. Primarely if you download something onto HDD end erase it, and fill it again with USB, or DVD. Delete one album in MP3, and then save some movie onto that HDD, it will fill the gap of the former MP3 album, and fill the rest of the gaps towards the emptiest parts of the HDD. But only when needed to. That, well, depends on OS storaging type.
So truly if PS3 does some defrag, it must be on PS3 booting or periodicly. Hell a PC can do that without any lag. Sorry.....it can.........it runs on Windows :D

Well........if not.........we sure need automatic and, of course, manual :D

[Garfunkel]

Simple.

Disconnect the PS3 HDD from the PS3, hook it into a laptop drive bay or a Desktop bay, insert the gparted livecd, boot the gparted livecd and load the HDD into that, it should report the file system. AFAIK it is fat32... If gparted doesn't detect the filesystem then it's something weird.

Couldn't you just install linux on a seperate partition and use it to detect the other partitions? I'm surprised nobody has done this yet to find what filesystem it uses. Sure, if it a journalised file system then you won't ever have to worry about fragmentation, but if it is fat things can get nasty over time.

[Red_Eyes]

It's encrypted and won't show up.

[cliffbo]

evidently the system is called: Synergistic Processing Unit File System

[cliffbo]

i'll stick this here for those who are interested:

PS3 Linux - The void has been filled..Full install instructions for Fedora Core 5!
Posted Nov 17, 2006 at 01:04AM by Pranav T Listed in: How-To, News, Linux Tags: Linux, ISO, Sony, Mozilla, VLC
Ó
413 QJ

PS3 LinuxYes, the void has been filled! You will be able to install Fedora Core 5 on your PS3s right now if you have all the components ready! The void we're talking about here is the OtherOS Installer which has just been released by Sony on their Open Platform for PLAYSTATION site. So let us be the first ones to tell you how it's done. We're getting our own PS3 in a few hours and we'll make sure that you have the whole install process with pictures later on. Until then, check out the instructions:

First, download all of the components that I've listed here.

* PS3 Linux Addon CD - Burn it on a CD at a slow speed (4x - 16x)
* OtherOS Installer by Sony
* Fedora Core 5 PPC image (DVD) - Burn it at a slow speed (2x - 8x)
o HTTP Download - [here]
o Bittorrent Download - [here]
o More HTTP Mirrors - [here]

You will need a USB keyboard and a mouse to use Linux on your PS3! Make sure you have it before jumping into the installation!

Alright, once you have these things ready, here's how you prepare your PS3 for another operating system, which in our case, is Fedora Core 5.

* You'll need a USB storage drive (can be a Memory Stick, Compact Flash drive, external hard disk, etc..)
* Now plug the drive into your PC.
* Make a folder called "PS3" in the root of the storage drive.
* Inside the PS3 folder, make an "otheros" folder.
* Move the otheros.self to the otheros folder on the USB storage drive.
* Now, use a software like WinRAR to open the Addon CD ISO which we just downloaded.
* Inside that ISO file, navigate to the kboot folder where you'll find a file - otheros.bld
* Extract that single file to the otheros folder on your USB storage drive.
* Now, remove the USB drive from your PC and plug it into the PS3.
* Now before we do anything, make sure to format your PS3's Hard Disk.
* Make two partitions, one for Linux and the other for the PS3 Game OS. If it's a 20GB disk, you can make 2 partitions of 10GB each.
* If it's a bigger disk, the partitioning scheme is upto you.
* Now go to the Settings Menu -> System Settings -> Install Other OS.
* Click on OK to start the installation. This will install the kboot image to the PS3.
* Once done, it will go back to the menu.
* Navigate to Settings -> System Settings -> Default System and select "Other OS".

Now that you've selected Other OS from the default system menu, when you restart your PS3, you will be greeted with the Other OS installer message. In case you're stuck with the Other OS installer and you want to go back to the Game OS, just press the Power button for 5 seconds or more when starting your PS3. Be advised that doing this will restore the PS3 to it's default factory resolution.

* Alright, now insert the Fedora Core 5 DVD into the PS3.
* Restart your PS3.
* When the PS3 starts, you will be greeted with the kboot message for the Fedora Core 5 installer.
* You can only install via a DVD, CDs aren't supported!
* When the installation starts, one Hard Disk will be recognised - sda Linux.
* At the kboot prompt, type in "install-fc sda"

Once it starts, you will see a message:

Please insert Fedore Core install DVD.
Is it OK? (y/n):
Just press y to begin install.

This will prepare your PS3 for Linux. Once done, you will be able to select one of the 2 install methods:

* Fedora Core minimum install
* Fedore Core full install

Select whichever install you want. We'd recommend a full install to reap all the benefits of Linux on your PS3. At this point, the real installation will start. It will ask a couple of questions, but they will be basic stuff. Remember that when you install Fedora Core 5 on your PS3, the second partition you made will be formatted and you will lose all your data on that partition.

The installer will start unpacking and installing the data to your hard disk. After a small while, you'll see this message:

Please insert a Addon Packages CD.
Is it OK? (y/n)
Remove the Fedora Core 5 DVD and insert the Addon Disc which you burned a while ago and press y.

A little while later, you will see the following message:

Install done.
Type reboot to start Linux or type halt to power off

Rejoice! You've just successfully installed Fedora Core 5 to your PS3. Now you could shut off your PS3 and take a walk outside. But knowing Linux nuts, I'm sure you'll be dying to check it out.

Just type in reboot to restart your PS3. When your PS3 starts, you will be able to login as root with the password you supplied during install. Just type it in and have fun with Fedora Core 5! You will be able to install any app as long as it has a PPC build of it. That includes most major applications like Mozilla Firefox, VLC player and more..

Now if you want to go back to the Game OS, just type in boot-game-os at the prompt. Have fun with Linux on your PS3. We will be updating this post with pictures of our own Linux installation as soon as we get our PS3, which will be in a few hours. In the meanwhile, make sure to read the official FAQ by Sony. For more info, download the documents here and go over them to know the full capabilities of Fedora Core 5 on your PS3.

Now please spare me so that I can go and beat the UPS guys up for delaying our PS3 delivery.

http://ps3.qj.net/PS3-Linux-The-void-has-been-filled-Full-install-instructions-for-Fedora-Core-5-/pg/49/aid/73144