Why is Europe still the poor cousin?

[TimmyJ]

I'll pre-emptively open by saying that this isn't going to be a particularly long post given that I'm using the PS3's web browser but anywho, here goes.

Why is it that despite having been out in Europe for a considerable amount of time now, the European PS Store still has horrendous content compared to it's US and JP counterparts?

If Europe wasn't the Sony-land that it is then fair enough, I could understand the logic behind such lackluster offerings, but the fact of the matter is that the PS3 regularly outsells it's direct rival here and yet we only ever seem to be left with the scraps.

Looking at the JP store... well, I don't get very far owing to the fact that I can only speak and read English (and a small amount of French) but going to the US store... it's an entirely different world.

The PS1 games that are available are games that people actually want (Theme Hospital and N20? Stuff them up your arse and give us something decent Sony) such as ALL 3 Crash Bandicoot games, Spyro the Dragon etc.

The full PS3 games and add-on content that are available on the US store are released weeks and months ahead of their European counterparts (PAIN anyone?)

And perhaps most importantly to a PSP user, both demos and full games are available for transfer to the device.

Admittedly, the demos that are absent from the UK store don't really matter to me given that I can simply switch to my US account, but what happens when I want to purchase and download a full game? Simply put, I can't.

Some people may well argue that there's a language barrier, that any games have to be translated for the multitude of languages found in Europe, but I call BS.

Given the fact that PS1 games came out long ago and were (beleive it or not) released in Europe from time to time, surely there shouldn't be any issue with having to re-translate them? Surely the work was already done all those years ago?


Also, I don't know if Sony have forgottten, but there is a small country in Europe that speaks English. That's right, it's called England.

It was proved to us that Sony have regional control over the PS store to more of a degree than just continents when they made the PS Store available in countries such as Greece some time after other EU countries were able to access it.

Given that this is clearly the case why not, at the very least, simultaneously update the stores of the two English speaking countries: the US and the UK?

All in all, I feel as though Sony are treating Europe like a ginger step-child yet again, only this time there's really no excuse.

I will concede right now that this isn't a particularly well written post, that's what happens when you rant, but I still think I make some valid points... as poorly made as they may be.

Sorry for the multiple posts btw, I'm sorta limited by the PS3 browser for some reason. Any chance that a mod could merge my posts pretty please?

[Sephiroth_VII]

Translating into 30+ different languages is probably the main issue.

[Jay Gee]

Right now, both the US and EU's PSN stores have jack shit in comparison to the Japanese store. They already have Guilty Gear and Ridge Racer Type 4 up for download. I still actually have my physical copyof Crash Bandicoot Warped on me, so I could give a shit about it. Same goes for Jet Moto 3. Give me BATTLE ARENA TOSHINDEN 2, SONY. WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU???

[Matt]

I've always put the problem down to having to translate the game into a number of languages, but you make a good point. Half of the time, the games we get over here contain the bastardised version of the English language (American), so why should we have to wait?

[LiquidEagle]

Normally I wouldn't really care about this, but since I plan on living in the EU some day, I'll get right on fixing this :-p

And Matt, even the games the UK makes have American accents, Burnout Paradise is an excample... I think it would make very little sense to have a British DJ in a town that's supposed to be Los Angeles, but then again I listen to Nic Harcourt on Morning Becomes Eclectic any chance I get :laugh:

...I just proved myself wrong so I'm going to ignore this thread and pretend it never happened...

[Matt]

And Matt, even the games the UK makes have American accents, Burnout Paradise is an excample...

That's the point I was trying to make.

Half of the time, the games we get over here contain the bastardised version of the English language (American), so why should we have to wait?

[LiquidEagle]

:lol: yeah.... I would delete my post if it didn't give me such a laugh. Just forget I said anything :-p

You guys have my condolences, but we can team up against the Japanese at least :-D

[Matt]

:lol: yeah.... I would delete my post if it didn't give me such a laugh. Just forget I said anything :-p

You guys have my condolences, but we can team up against the Japanese at least :-D

I guess I can let you off ;)

[Gegenki]

Haha, you think the lack of content is bad (US and UK)?

I submit to you that the JP stores last 10 updates were spread accross
22 Febuary, 21st febuary, 19th febuary, 14th febuary

So not only do they have way more content, but they actually get to turn their system on and say, hey I wonder if theres anything new on PSN, and find a suprise, rather than having to wait until Thursday just to know, you aren't going to get anything else - until Thursday.

The far East is supposed to be known for doing business slowly I once read an article saying you could find yourself waiting a week before you recieve a reply to an email but I know over here you expect a reply by the end of the day or in most cases within the hour (excluding lunch time). The Western PS stores are just shameful.

But obviously ours is significantly worse.
At best we get new demos a week after America.
Translation is an issue, it shouldn't be an excuse. People are getting paid to do a job so do it.

I'm sure you are all slowly becoming used to my views on people who get paid to do something.
If they can't get the job done on time people need to start losing jobs

[Matt]

But obviously ours is significantly worse.
At best we get new demos a week after America.
Translation is an issue, it shouldn't be an excuse. People are getting paid to do a job so do it.

A question for some of our mainland European members:

On the demos, do you guys get the choice of changing the language to that of your country?

[bilbobob007]

The whole language thing falls right on its ass when you talk about the Oblivion add on. Its been out since november in USA. No sign on the euro PSN and no replies at all by Sony or Ubisoft on its where abouts. The game of the year ed is out here in the uk so that means there is at least an english language version of the add on because its all on the blu ray. So where the f*ck is it. Am i suppose to go out and pay agian for the game. I really do feel short changed on this one. I have said this before on a few threads.

Its funny but those regions with the content dont seem to care. Till the euro store gets something first then its a different matter!

Question to anyone here from Spain. Is your PSN as bad. If so you really are been p*ssed on by Sony. Spain is PS3 Sales heaven. You deserve better.

[Raitei]

the worst thing though, is when something developed here gets released elsewhere first (take heavenly sword for example)

[Matt]

The only game I know that's been released here before anywhere else is Singstar.

Big whoop :(

[Segitz]

Well...

I agree mostly and I add that we pay way more for every thing here (except PSN stuff, which interestingly often is cheaper here than in the US). 70€ games^^

All updates this year pretty much sucked, except 2 (Everyday Shooter, which was delayed for nearly half a year and PJ Monsters)... I hope, they really put in the second gear soon.

I couldn't care less if my demos are in english... I don't even care if they are japanese (Patapon in Japanese was a bit harder to understand^^).

The german store sucks most, as nearly none of the interesting demos or trailers even make it here. I am 25 (turning 26 soon), yet nearly no demo here or dl content rated 16 or above gets released here at all... I really hope, Sony mends this soon. I mean, iirc, the HS AND Uncharted demos were not released on the German PSN... I mean, what is this? (Good thing, my CC also works on the Austrian PSN)

[LiquidEagle]

Don't forget that we got MGS2 & MGS3 before the Japanese did, too!

[Matt]

It seems really odd that the Euro PSN isn't the same for every country. There must be something odd going on in Germany, because you guys never seem to get half of the content!

Don't forget that we got MGS2 & MGS3 before the Japanese did, too!

MGS2 took aaaaaages to get over here, although we did get the "European Extreme" difficulty :-D

[XboxEvolved]

The same thing happens with a lot of online stores, be it the XBLM, iTunes or whatever. Much of it has to do with publisher issues, and technical issues.

[zero 7]

Another thing where is our DAMNN PLAYSTATION CARDS SONY?!!!!!!

[cliffbo]

Singstar, Buzz, PlayTV

[The Dude]

Because the Euro market does not spend as much money on video games as the American or Japanese market. They need money to cover development costs as soon as possible, so it makes sense to release content in the markets where they are more likely to sell the most first, then port them to smaller markets.

[bilbobob007]

Because the Euro market does not spend as much money on video games as the American or Japanese market. They need money to cover development costs as soon as possible, so it makes sense to release content in the markets where they are more likely to sell the most first, then port them to smaller markets.

Do you have any figures to back that one up. Because i'm not sure im going to agree with you there on that. Even the layout for the PSN in the u.s is better than ours. Mind you I think the euro one has changed a bit. I'm sorry but it dont take that long to convert languages over and that is usually the garb that you get when you ask where content is.

The truth of the matter is Sony wants to conquer the USA from microsoft. So they are buttering the bread states side. Show me proof otherwise and i will capitulate on this. To us from europe it looks that way. I'm not trying to start a war here, this is how it looks and feels to a lot of us.

Plus i'm not sure if i remember this correct but at the birth of the PS3 were Sony not bragging about how non region coding was going to stop game releases been so far apart across the world. Help stop piracy too?

[cliffbo]

Do you have any figures to back that one up. Because i'm not sure im going to agree with you there on that. Even the layout for the PSN in the u.s is better than ours. Mind you I think the euro one has changed a bit. I'm sorry but it dont take that long to convert languages over and that is usually the garb that you get when you ask where content is.

The truth of the matter is Sony wants to conquer the USA from microsoft. So they are buttering the bread states side. Show me proof otherwise and i will capitulate on this. To us from europe it looks that way. I'm not trying to start a war here, this is how it looks and feels to a lot of us.

well i can agree to an extent with that, but i actually think that Europe is where Sony are at the moment. they've already overtaken 360 in Japan and are rapidly catching the 360 in Europe... so i think that Europe will be their main concern for a quite a while yet. the problem with Europe is that there are so many different languages to cater for

the 'this is living' ads that got so much criticism were European in nature.

[Matt]

The one thing with having to localise the games, is that we're only talking about PSN downloads here. Surely there can't be that much text to translate in these games? Especially something like Blast Factor: Advanced Research. All they'd have to translate is the menus and the occasional in-game text popup.

Edit: I would be interested to hear if there is a lot to having to change a game from NTSC to PAL, if anything is required at all.

[cliffbo]

The one thing with having to localise the games, is that we're only talking about PSN downloads here. Surely there can't be that much text to translate in these games? Especially something like Blast Factor: Advanced Research. All they'd have to translate is the menus and the occasional in-game text popup.

Edit: I would be interested to hear if there is a lot to having to change a game from NTSC to PAL, if anything is required at all.

i don't think that's an issue anymore with HD TVs. i think things are going to change soon though. Sony have already said that they are going to amalgamate PSN... can't remember when they said it would happen though

[KRA]

i think more time takes to get rights to relase game in different countries
with different rules and institutions that need to aprove it...
or something than translating...

[Matt]

i think more time takes to get rights to relase game in different countries
with different rules and institutions that need to aprove it...

If that's the case, then I would've thought they could do something so that they have the rights to release a game in all countries at the same time?

[cliffbo]

i think more time takes to get rights to relase game in different countries
with different rules and institutions that need to aprove it...
or something than translating...

good point.

[Sephiroth_VII]

i don't think that's an issue anymore with HD TVs. i think things are going to change soon though. Sony have already said that they are going to amalgamate PSN... can't remember when they said it would happen though

It's still an issue, since a lot of people still have SD-tv's.

[cliffbo]

It's still an issue, since a lot of people still have SD-tv's.

you have a point...

[satriales]

Because the Euro market does not spend as much money on video games as the American or Japanese market. They need money to cover development costs as soon as possible, so it makes sense to release content in the markets where they are more likely to sell the most first, then port them to smaller markets.
That's not true at all. If anything Europe is probably the biggest market for video games especially when it comes to the PS3.

[Matt]

That's not true at all. If anything Europe is probably the biggest market for video games especially when it comes to the PS3.

That's what I was thinking, because it's been mentioned a lot that Europe is the best territory for them. Doesn't seem to matter that much at the moment though :(

[cliffbo]

That's not true at all. If anything Europe is probably the biggest market for video games especially when it comes to the PS3.

American population: 301,139,947 (July 2007 est.)

European population: 490 million (estimated)

[Sephiroth_VII]

you have a point...

I wish I didn't :(

[bilbobob007]

Still does not matter tho at the end of the day my money spent is as good as anyone elses. they new the things that had to be done to localise games ect to start with. Is anyone telling me Sony never went into this eyes open and never considered the ramifications of the exercise. After all they have been having to do localisation to dvd with PS2 games for years. Some of the releases over the PSN are taking as long to come as they did when they were disk based.

I'm pretty sure they stated massive release date differences would become a thing of the past. Dont see it so far. Would look for clarification but right now i'm enjoying UT3 far too much. Will scout for it later.

How can they claim to be unifying the PSN when they cannot even get a few games out the gates months after the release in other territories.

[Gegenki]

It's still an issue, since a lot of people still have SD-tv's.

PS2 games had a 3 line boot script. You can open one now in a text editor. System.cnf i think it is. One of the the lines tells it whether to boot in ntsc or pal. Some mod chips can override that.
Pal vs NTSC is simply a change in render mode though it can effect the look and speed of videos so FMV's probably would have had to be edited. The PS3 handles things just fine though, it's well equipped for this with its changeable video modes. Now with consoles being as powerful as they are most cut scenes are in real time. The only videos you get in most games now might be the intro and the company logos. Even so shouldn't take forever to fix videos to a slightly different display scheme. The do it fine with movies. (Cinema = 24fps, Pal = 25fps, ntsc = 29.97fps
I believe there is also a video conversion process that can be done on the fly - dont quote me on that - so this isn't even an issue.

This is just crap. We should complain until we get an official statement. Surely this site must have a bit of pulling power by now

[Segitz]

Well, usually we get 104% PAL Speed up 25fps movies here on dvd... i.e. 24fps get sped up by 4% to 25fps (this, any player can do).

24/(1000/1001) (i.e. 23.967fps) to 29.97 also is easily done via the 3:2 pulldown you yanks always suffer from stuttering movies...

Thankfully, BDs et al are nearly always pressed at 24fps and thus don't make this a problem with new tvs (that support 1080@24)

But there's different stuff to consider too...

There's not only the difference in framerate between PAL and NTSC (easy to remember... "Never The Same Color" :D). PAL has a higher resolution (576P) than NTSC (480P). Many games use the PS2 to its fullest and cannot render at a higher resolution. Earlier (in Mega Drive times), games where just slowed down and borders at the top and bottom were added to compensate the difference in resolution, and I am glad that's over. There are even PS2 games, that use this "technique" sadly.

[The Dude]

When we talk about markets, we are talking about much more then just raw numbers of consoles and software sold. The most expensive cost of doing business is by far the marketing of a product. This includes advertising, distribution, and the actual product. In Europe, you have 48 unique countries, each with their own cultures. There is no way you are going to sell a product in France, the same way you are going to do it in the U.K or Germany. The market is extremely fragmented, because of it, it is very expense to do business unless your product originated from there. There are other things need to be considered, such as shelf space in retail store is more expensive in Europe then the US. The European market gives a smaller return on investment then others.

For the record, the US alone spent over 18 billion (http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_080131b.html) in video games last year, I could not find an accurate sales number for the Euro market to compare it to

[jaxmkii]

American population: 301,139,947 (July 2007 est.)

European population: 490 million (estimated)

shyt but you guys had a 6,000 year headstart

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Cuz it's like 50-'leven different languages and trade laws? Is that not reason enough?

[TrueVCU]

Also PAL getting screwed is basically just part of the natural order at this point?

(I kid, I kid)

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Gamers should really consider these things before becoming European.

[OmniCloud]

I just wish I could play some of the Playstation 1 games from the Japanese store...

Besides that, I'm fine...

[zero 7]

Gamers should really consider these things before becoming European.

but we cant help where we are born

[curryking1]

Cuz it's like 50-'leven different languages and trade laws? Is that not reason enough?

Ya... shouldn't this alone explain it? Seriously, how many countries are in Europe?

Japan is one country.. North America is essentially just two. One language for each. I'm sure SCEJ has no problem getting merchandise licensed for sale in Japan.

Not only do these two spend more on the gaming, but there's next to nothing to hold it up from getting here faster and cheaper.

Btw, is PS3 classified as a computer or games console? I remember they wanted the PS2 classified as a computer to avoid some tariffs in Europe and elsewhere but it wasn't granted. What is the PS3 classed as?

^That was a joke... the next part of the joke is.. well you can move your butt out of there... eventually! :P

[B Dizzle]

shyt but you guys had a 6,000 year headstart

Yeah, but you guys cheated by shipping a load of people in:wave:

[TrueVCU]

One language for each.


Three, actually. Substantial french and spanish speaking minorities in Canada and America, respectively. Although only the Canadians force people to translate things into french.

Even with this being the case it still makes localization for NA far less of a bitch than the EU, where you've got 10 different major languages to deal with just off the top of my head, some of which have nothing to do with each other.

And just because I feel like showing off, those ten languages are: portuguese, spanish, french, dutch, german, polish, italian, romanian, greek, and swedish. And those are just off the top of my head.

[Matt]

The only ones that I ever see on games over here are English, French, Spanish, German, Italian and Suomi (whatever the hell that is).

[TimmyJ]

The argument of translation issues has been passed around a few times but the fact of the matter is that translation shouldn't be anything of an issue for:

1) PS1 games
Any translation work was done long ago when these games were released - these games don't see any kinds of updates, they are simply converted for use on the PS3/PSP as I've personally done many times for my PSP.

2) ENGLAND
There may well be translation issues with some PSN games, but these fall on their arse when you consider that the population of England does, by and large, speak the same language as the population of the US.
Sure there could be some licensing issues, but enough to cause a (thus far) three month gap between the US and UK releases of PAIN? Not likely.

And if Sony have decided that they will wait to release PSN games on the UK Store until all translation work is done to allow a simultaneous Europe release then... don't! Stagger the releases for goodness sake!!!!!!!

[TrueVCU]

until Britain embraces its destiny and joins with the US it will be forced to suffer with the rest of the continent :P

[Matt]

until Britain embraces its destiny and joins with the US it will be forced to suffer with the rest of the continent :P

NEVER!!

[TrueVCU]

NEVER!!

Search your feelings, you know it to be true

[bilbobob007]

Gamers should really consider these things before becoming European.

Wow i think i better nip back in my time machine and tell my parents to move to America. the phrase should not be European but, EUROPEEDON. Bad but who cares.

Oh and by the way. This language thing. We are from all over the world right here on this forum, just remind me again what language we are all talking?

[Matt]

Bad English :D

[bilbobob007]

Bad English :D

Hell the the english are the worst speakers in the world, of there own language.

As a side note to that, has anyone else noticed that the british invented nearly every major sport in the world, but are in fact shite at all of them.

[TrueVCU]

That's enough of a journey into the land of derailment.

[belgarn]

The only ones that I ever see on games over here are English, French, Spanish, German, Italian and Suomi (whatever the hell that is).

Suomi = Finnish ;)

[cliffbo]

Leaked: PlayStation Store classic release list for 25 European games
supadupagama February 27th, 2008

* PSP
* PS3
* News

Listen to this article "Hey! Listen!"

Vib Ribbon is one of the PlayStation One cult classicsEuropean PlayStation 3 owners are about to get a huge amount of 25 fan favorite and cult classic PlayStation One games on the PlayStation Store in the near future. After a search on the PEGI ratings board website for PlayStation Network titles, the following games showed up.

01. Bust a Groove (Other/Music games)
02. Crash Bandicoot 3 (Action/Platform)
03. Colony Wars (Action/Platform)
04. Cool Boarders 2 (Sports/Extreme Sports)
05. Cool boarders 3 (Sports/Extreme Sports)
06. Destruction Derby 2 (Racing)
07. Devil Dice (Puzzle)
08. Everybody’s Golf (Sports/Golf)
09. Klonoa (Action/Platform)
10. Kurushi Final (Puzzle)
11. Motor Toon Grand Prix (Racing)
12. Namco Museum (Other/Mini game Collection)
13. Namco Museum 2 (Puzzle)
14. Namco Museum 4 (Puzzle)
15. Omega Boost (Action/Shooter)
16. Ridge Racer (Racing/Arcade Racing)
17. Ridge Racer Type 4 (Racing)
18. Rollcage (Racing)
19. Spyro: Year of the Dragon (Action/Platform)
20. Tekken 2 (Fighting/Beat-Em-Up)
21. Tekken 3 (Fighting/Beat-Em-Up)
22. Twisted Metal (Racing)
23. Vib Ribbon (Other/Music games)
24. Wip3out (Racing/Futuristic Racing)
25. WipeOut 2097 (Racing/Futuristic Racing)

http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2008/02/27/leaked-playstation-store-classic-release-list-for-25-european-games.htm

[curryking1]

Three, actually. Substantial french and spanish speaking minorities in Canada and America, respectively. Although only the Canadians force people to translate things into french.

Lol! My god, I forgot French hahaha. Almost all my games have second instruction manuals and case things :):):)

But honestly, essentially it's just English (and for 30 million/300 million people, a French translation). I said 'essentially' before. Does Mexico really get launches the same time as Canada and the USA? Are there translations of instruction manuals for Spanish in America? I'm asking, I don't know. I don't live there.

P.S. I miss Phil Harrison already :(

[cliffbo]

with the list above, this, PlayTV, Buzz and Singstar, i think we Europeans have it real goooood!

Go!Messenger launches this Friday for PSP
By James Orry - 27/02/2008 - 12:40pm GMT

http://static.videogamer.com/videogamer/images/pub/go_messenger.jpg

Enables PSP users to communicate for free using video, voice and instant messages.

Sony Computer Entertainment Europe has announced the launch of Go!Messenger, a new wireless communication package for PSP from SCEE and BT.

Go!Messenger makes it easy for PSP user to communicate via video, voice and instant messages for free over any wireless broadband internet connection. Using the Go!Cam users will have the ability to make real-time video calls to friends all over the world.

Go!Messenger will also function for free at over 2,500 BT Openzone hotspots found in City centres around the UK.

"With Go!Messenger, the PSP is pushing new boundaries, adding unique communication features to all the existing multimedia experiences," said Stephane Hareau, PSP European Marketing Manager. "Enabling more than 11 Million PSP users across the SCEE region to communicate with each other, through Video or Voice chat, truly confirms the always evolving nature and potential of PSP.''

The Go!Messenger client will be available to download by selecting the Go!Messenger icon found under the Network menu on the PSP. Follow the instructions and download the client from the website.

http://www.videogamer.com/news/27-02-2008-7630.html

[Sephiroth_VII]

Finally...

[AbominatioN]

http://www.videogamer.com/news/27-02-2008-7630.html

Is it also only for PSP-2000 ? I've got a PSP-1000...

[the boney king of nowhere.]

klonoa and kurushi final!

[Smokey]

The truth of the matter is Sony wants to conquer the USA from microsoft. So they are buttering the bread states side. Show me proof otherwise and i will capitulate on this
it has always been this way ps1,2,3 and will be the same when ps4 hits

[Segitz]

Is it also only for PSP-2000 ? I've got a PSP-1000...

Well, since I got the newest PSP FW installed and the Go Messenger option is shown in the XMB, I think PSP-1000 users are good to go... Not like the shit, that is Skype (that is also running on my freaking cellphone for christs sake!)