Resident Evil 5

[cliffbo]

the only thread i could find was locked.

Resident Evil 5 to be released as soon as October?
Posted on March 1st, 2008 at 05:51 EDT

According to rumors in the latest issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly, Capcom plans to release Resident Evil 5 before/during the holiday season of this year.

Now we would just say that this could be an April Fools Joke to get fans riled up; however, PSU has heard from our own sources that this is true. We were told that not only will Resident Evil 5 be in stores by the holidays, but could be on shelves as soon as October.

Due out on PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360, Resident Evil 5 is set ten years after the events of the original game, with players assuming control of former S.T.A.R.S Marksman, Chris Redfield.

Now working for an organisation known as ‘BSAA’, Redfield is dispatched to investigate an isolated village in the African desert, where he soon discovers that the locals have become infected by an unknown plague or virus, turning them into relentless, malevolent killers.

As with its predecessor, Resident Evil 5 uses an over-the-shoulder perspective to allow for precision aiming, and also incorporates the use of melee attacks, such as the ability to punch your opponent, knocking them to the ground. Various weapons such as the handgun, Shotgun, Assault Rifle have also been confirmed, though much of the game’s plot and gameplay remains unknown.

Expect more details on Resident Evil 5 to crop up over the next few months.


http://www.psu.com/Resident-Evil-5-to-be-released-as-soon-as-October-News--a0002925-p0.php

http://www.psu.com/media/resident-evil-5/site_resident-evil-5-ss-21.jpg

http://www.psu.com/media/resident-evil-5/site_resident-evil-5-ss-22.jpg

http://www.psu.com/media/resident-evil-5/site_resident-evil-5-ss-23.jpg

http://www.psu.com/media/resident-evil-5/site_resident-evil-5-ss-24.jpg

http://www.psu.com/media/resident-evil-5/site_resident-evil-5-ss-25.jpg

http://www.psu.com/media/resident-evil-5/site_resident-evil-5-ss-20.jpg

HD trailer: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/22800.html

SD trailer: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/22801.html

[TEEDA]

That would be the second amazing game using the framework Engine to demonstrate good graphics for multiplayer game.

[Segitz]

That would be the second amazing game using the framework Engine to demonstrate good graphics for multiplayer game.

True... Lost Planets port is utter shite, yet DMC4 is great^^ (maybe Capcom didn't think, Lost Planet was worth a good port)

[Leedogg]

Capcom themselves announced at E3 07 that RE 5 wouldn't be released until 2009. So I take this with a grain of salt....

[chartwel]

well, look how far they were when the last trailer was released. the game looked very polished so its not hard to believe that they might be getting close to finished soon. i sure hope so, one more quality title to buy. this year is definitely going to make me broke.

[TEEDA]

I guess like the MGS series they will probably announce a Resident Evil " online " just like the Outbreak series back on PS2 and PC.
Capcom just have so many games and titles to refresh on next gen plateform.
And they are talented and creative enough to make new Ips as well.
Dead rising was a brillant idea but just sounded unfinished.
But i just had the impression that the concept of the series which is " survival horror " has diminish a lil bit.

I mean in RE 1 . 2 . 3 were all about mansions , surprises and bizzare zombie creatures. And 4 and 5 just want to be maybe more " realistic " involving more human behavior.
Can't wait to see more of the ennemies to come.

[chartwel]

i definitely hope they do a next gen version of outbreak. that could really be something.

[yoshaw]

Meh, wake me when there's some real news on the game. Like a capcom press release or somethin'

[AC!D]

I just hope they innovate just a little cause Capcoms HD gen games like Devil May Cry have been the same as the PS2 games. I hope they dont plan to ride the same gameplay mechanics of Resi 4 through the next couple of games in the series and let the Resi games become stale again like before Resi 4.


You hear that Capcom ??? this is a new gen so please innovate!

[cliffbo]

I just hope they innovate just a little cause Capcoms HD gen games like Devil May Cry have been the same as the PS2 games. I hope they dont plan to ride the same gameplay mechanics of Resi 4 through the next couple of games in the series and let the Resi games become stale again like before Resi 4.


You hear that Capcom ??? this is a new gen so please innovate!

to be honest, i see no problem in reusing the style over and over... to me the the real problem is keeping the story fresh

[AC!D]

to be honest, i see no problem in reusing the style over and over... to me the the real problem is keeping the story fresh

You see thats where i disagree cause i think the change in gameplay and control scheme are the reason why Resi 4 was so popular. Lets be honest resi stories have never been good i mean Capcom asked Romero to do the script for the Resi evil movie and Capcom turned down his script so i wouldnt exactly call Capcom clever when it comes to telling a story. Go and play Resident Evil Outbreak and then tell me what was the difference between that game and Resident Evil 4 and i asure you it wont be the story. The game series has never been about keeping the story fresh rather designing gameplay that empowers the player and keeps zombie killing innovative, level design scary, Amazing bosses, enemt design, survival horror elements and none of that level retreading half arsed crap that halo and now unfortunatley Devil May Cry 4 is known for.

[cliffbo]

You see thats where i disagree cause i think the change in gameplay and control scheme are the reason why Resi 4 was so popular. Lets be honest resi stories have never been good i mean Capcom asked Romero to do the script for the Resi evil movie and Capcom turned down his script so i wouldnt exactly call Capcom clever when it comes to telling a story. Go and play Resident Evil Outbreak and then tell me what was the difference between that game and Resident Evil 4 and i asure you it wont be the story. The game series has never been about keeping the story fresh rather designing gameplay that empowers the player and keeps zombie killing innovative, level design scary, Amazing bosses, enemt design, survival horror elements and none of that level retreading half arsed crap that halo and now unfortunatley Devil May Cry 4 is known for.

how could they change it though? i just think that 3rd person is best for telling a story because you can see your character 'acting' and 'responding'. i take what you mean about story though... which is in essence why i mentioned it :)

[AC!D]

how could they change it though? i just think that 3rd person is best for telling a story because you can see your character 'acting' and 'responding'. i take what you mean about story though... which is in essence why i mentioned it :)

Not so much change it as add to it Cliff. I mean think about it what exactly did Kobayashi add to Devil May Cry 4 except the pretty graphics that could not have been done on PS2?

When i say add to it i mean add some Melee combat moves like Uncharted. Add the abillity to improvise making weapons from components around you when you run out of bullets and making the enviroment more destructible so that when your stuck in a room like you were in Resi 4 the zombies dont just jump in through the windows but break down the walls making gameplay more tense and unpredictible. Add wall penetration of bullets to make the enviroment more important against some bosses where you can hide behind buildings and shoot them through walls ( Creates a more hectic atmosphere and makes the gameplayer more tense. Let the survival horror elements like the virus getting hold of you come back into the game and become more prevelant like in previous Resi games ( Some of the hardcore old school resi crowd were upset that most of the survival stuff was taken out. Those are just my ideas but you get my point. Innovation is what Resi 4 did and innovation is what AC!D wants.

[cliffbo]

Not so much change it as add to it Cliff. I mean think about it what exactly did Kobayashi add to Devil May Cry 4 except the pretty graphics that could not have been done on PS2?

When i say add to it i mean add some Melee combat moves like Uncharted. Add the abillity to improvise making weapons from components around you when you run out of bullets and making the enviroment more destructible so that when your stuck in a room like you were in Resi 4 the zombies dont just jump in through the windows but break down the walls making gameplay more tense and unpredictible. Add wall penetration of bullets to make the enviroment more important against some bosses where you can hide behind buildings and shoot them through walls ( Creates a more hectic atmosphere and makes the gameplayer more tense. Let the survival horror elements like the virus getting hold of you come back into the game and become more prevelant like in previous Resi games ( Some of the hardcore old school resi crowd were upset that most of the survival stuff was taken out. Those are just my ideas but you get my point. Innovation is what Resi 4 did and innovation is what AC!D wants.

i'd like to see 'acting' brought into the game. for instance, if you try to force your character through fire, he actually fights against it slightly and protects himself from the flames. or if he's in a gas filled room he begins to stumble and pass out. a shake of the Sixaxis would snap him out of it for a short while. things like this would add tension

[AC!D]

i'd like to see 'acting' brought into the game. for instance, if you try to force your character through fire, he actually fights against it slightly and protects himself from the flames. or if he's in a gas filled room he begins to stumble and pass out. a shake of the Sixaxis would snap him out of it for a short while. things like this would add tension

Thats exactly what im talking about. What worries me is that Capcom has gone stale since Resi 4 and Okami. Things might get worse now that the clover devs have gone independant. A year ago would you have expected a crap port of a PS3 game from the amazing Capcom that's one year late or more of the same for Devil May Cry 4? The only thing i saw that was new in the trailer for Resi 5 was sprinting zombies, the possibility of turning into a zombie/creature, some sunlight mechanics that seam more irritating than interesting gameplay design at the moment and better physics so i hope there is more.

[Lucid Delusion]

I would be all for a next gen version of Outbreak. I loved that game. THe only problem was the lack of communication between teammates which I think really hindered the idea of cooperative play. They would definitely have to incorporate some voice chat into a next gen version.

[AC!D]

I would be all for a next gen version of Outbreak. I loved that game. THe only problem was the lack of communication between teammates which I think really hindered the idea of cooperative play. They would definitely have to incorporate some voice chat into a next gen version.

I dont mean to be a arse Lucid Delusion but Outbreak was one of two games that was so frustrating for me to play that i literally threw the game away ( The other was Angel of Darkness if your wondering :) )

[Lucid Delusion]

I dont mean to be a arse Lucid Delusion but Outbreak was one of two games that was so frustrating for me to play that i literally threw the game away ( The other was Angel of Darkness if your wondering :) )

Angel of Darkness...oh man, let us never mention that game again. Haha

Outbreak was unique. It wasn't a great game but it was fun to play for a bit. Like I said, the lack of communication between people playing the game really hindered things. People tended to split up and go off on their own. I count even count how many times I would finally connect to a game, and then two minutes later I was walking by the dead body of one of my teammates.

It's still a really good idea, but the actual execution was a bit off. If you were to put something together like that now with the RE4 control scheme and voice chat capabilities I think it would be really fun to play.

[NeoPlayStation]

Resident Evil 5 playable off-screen (http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/18134)

[yoshaw]

Wow, thanks. Downloading now. +rep!

EDIT: WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW!!!! Creamed my pants. Can't wait for this to come man. Capcom make it happen. I'm a 3 year old again. Dies n goes to heaven.

[VG Aficionado]

Resident Evil 5 playable off-screen (http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/18134)

Even more surprising(?) news today:

http://i31.tinypic.com/1z21s79.jpg

http://www.the-horror.com/

I was sent this goody by a friend who works at Capcom's San Fransisco building. He spied an artist working on what appeared to be boxart for an upcoming port of Resident Evil 4 for the XBOX 360 and PS3 entitled "Resident Evil 4 Classic Edition". Details are sketchy, but from what my contact could gather, the game will feature Hunk more than before. When pressed further, they said Hunk would be getting his own story-campaign, similar to Ada's Separate Ways scenario in the PS2/PC/Wii versions. I'm attempting to get direct captures of the boxart, and not a quick cellphone grab but this will have to do for now. We'll have more to report on this in the coming days!*insert milk joke here* (although it's being said by Capcom representatives this is not real)

[chartwel]

while i would love to see an updated version show up on PS3, thats definitely a fake.

[dnpmakkah]

Wish he wasn't so muscular but it's cool nonetheless.

[Matt]

Damn it, I wish I could watch that video.

[Gummy]

Wish he wasn't so muscular but it's cool nonetheless.

ahaha but kratos is like super muscular.
well... it's a different game, so ya.

I guess, they should've toned up his body instead of making him bulky looking.

[NeoPlayStation]

Dailymotion (youtube like) version (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4uqvw_biohazard5xvid_videogames)

[Epix]

Info from the DVD:

"Ever since the dawn of time,
the most primordial human emotion has been...
FEAR"

The DVD starts with footage of the original RE, where the original nightmare started as Chris and Jill try to escape the mansion.
In RE2, the battle against Umbrella unfolded as Raccoon City died.
In 3, an incessant hunter pursued Jill Valentine.
In the deserted island of Rockfort, more mysteries unfolded in CODE: Veronica.
Convict Billy Coen was an unexpected ally in Zero.
And in a village infected with madness, Leon rescued the president's daughter in 4...

The series was introduced in 1996 and broke sales records.

Now a new game is coming... Biohazard 5.

Takeuchi Interview (very rough/basic translation)

Footage of the devs examining Chris' Biohazard 5 character model on a PC. The original Biohazard was developed on older hardware, but in 5, the hardware allows for the character models to be adapted to various situations.

There were various teams that could make the game at the beginning.
Africa confirmed - Or, at the very least, the village is modeled after an African village
Sunlight will be a focus of the game to achieve a new kind of feel not done before.

Chris at first can walk around the village with no one attacking him, but he sees two people attacking another and dragging the guy into the room. Chris follows in, and the action starts after the mutation.

More footage of Chris fighting the ganados. So far, it's very similar to RE4.

5's System
Shinji Mikami's Biohazard 4 is the base for the system, with evolutions and improvements planned.

Chris Redfield
Takeuchi was a staff member of the original Biohazard, of which Chris was a star of. 5 takes place 10 years after the original RE, and Chris has a new mission.

Weapon Variation
Chris is up against a huge number of enemies. The game will have variation in weapons including series classics like the Handgun and Shotgun and such. The footage shows the developers examining a handgun character model.

Fight Elements
The game will make use of the action buttons (QTEs) from Biohazard 4 once again.

Message to the Fans
Fans have eagerly awaited prior titles and now await Biohazard 5. Capcom's working hard on the game's unexpected graphics, system and story. The Biohazard series has taken on various forms in its history. Presently a CG movie is also in works (Biohazard Degeneration) and that will be shown as well. There is a lot to look forward to in the Biohazard world this year. We will delve down into the story and characters of the Biohazard series, and thus this year will be filled with Biohazard. Please look forward to more information on the title this year.

Final World from Mr. Takeuchi
WAIT FOR THE MEDIA SUMMIT

[yoshaw]

When the heck is this MEDIA SUMMIT?

[dnpmakkah]

I love the close up camera positioning. It give it such an immersive feel.

[curryking1]

^Totally man, I love it.

[cliffbo]

must buy! MGS has a rival

[Matt]

must buy! MGS has a rival

Sure, whatever you say.

I think he's finally lost it :P

[Jay Gee]

WTF Cliff? MGS? What are you smoking?

[GTShotoKen]

I'm glad that this game will follow the RE4 forumla, but I don't won't it to be RE4 two either.

The part at the end of the video seemed exactly like RE4. The enemies seemed to use the same animations when shot, died, and evaporated exactly the same as in RE4.

I would like a more advanced gibbing system past the head. That little feature would make fighting enemies seem a whole lot different.

I loved the physics interactions shown (what little was shown). Hopefully both the player and enemy will use physics based objects to their advantage.

[curryking1]

The part at the end of the video seemed exactly like RE4. The enemies seemed to use the same animations when shot, died, and evaporated exactly the same as in RE4.

I would like a more advanced gibbing system past the head. That little feature would make fighting enemies seem a whole lot different.

Totally agree. The 'taking a hit from the cleaver' animation was exactly the same.

Also on the topic of gibbing would be appropriate especially on the torso and thighs and stuff. I mean... this is a series primarily about zombies and other sorts of crazy diseased victims...

I don't want over the top gibbing, but the type of gibbing I would kind of like to see would be on the lines of some light flesh wounds. Not like dismemberment every two shots you take, and I actually wouldn't like dismemberment (something like SOF II would seem unreasonable in this context to me for some reason), but simply having like more visible and detailed decals on the bodies would be best I think.

Even just like stains on clothes or clothes getting ripped after shooting them would be cool.

[cliffbo]

Sure, whatever you say.

I think he's finally lost it :P

WTF Cliff? MGS? What are you smoking?

i meant graphically. :). you can't argue that the graphic don't look incredible

[Epix]

Gibbing?

[curryking1]

Gibbing means like... flesh destruction? I dunno, it's not really a word lol.

[cliffbo]

i just think there's something very real about the graphics. the way the villagers/zombies, mull about and the shadows... i don't know it just impresses me as much as MGS

[Epix]

Gibbing means like... flesh destruction? I dunno, it's not really a word lol.Like realtime body deformation? ftw?

[curryking1]

I guess you could call it that hahaha. Sounds kind of funny to diagnose someone with 'realtime body deformation' hahaha.

[Heinrich4]

Strange ! Cris with steroids?

I dont like much with proposal RE4(controlls,camera,not scare,more action game without puzzles) in my opinion Re Code Veronica and Remake for cube are majors tittles of franchise.

(this game it seens to me more RE4 HD than somthing realy new...im still waiting for more informations,impressions etc)

[cliffbo]

looks like the rumour is gathering pace for the Classic. hit link for vids:

http://www.xboxic.com/news/4532

Resident Evil 4 Classic Edition for PS3/Xbox 360?
Posted in Trailers, Rumors, Games, Xbox 360 by Adam Riley on March 30th, 2008 at 17:59

Sketchy details emerged early last week about the possibility of yet another version of Resident Evil 4 being readied for the marketplace. Following the success of the game on the GameCube, PlayStation 2, PC and Wii, if the source was to be believed then there is yet another iteration in the works for the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, called ‘Resident Evil 4: Classic Edition’. But is this truth or nothing more than an elaborate April Fools’ joke?

Resident Evil 4 Classic Edition - on its way to PS3 and Xbox 360?According to website ‘The Horror is Alive’, this is definitely the truth and nothing but the truth, with Capcom eager to squeeze even more sales out of the highly rated entry into the popular Resident Evil franchise. But rather than merely porting any of the previous editions, it seems Capcom will be pouring even more than before into this next generation update. The original entry on the website states:

“I was sent this goody by a friend who works at Capcom’s San Fransisco building. He spied an artist working on what appeared to be boxart for an upcoming port of Resident Evil 4 for the XBOX 360 and PS3 entitled “Resident Evil 4 Classic Edition”. Details are sketchy, but from what my contact could gather, the game will feature Hunk more than before. When pressed further, they said Hunk would be getting his own story-campaign, similar to Ada’s Separate Ways scenario in the PS2/PC/Wii versions. I’m attempting to get direct captures of the boxart, and not a quick cellphone grab but this will have to do for now. We’ll have more to report on this in the coming days!”

The picture of the PlayStation 3 box art can be seen in this article and more at the source. It seems that, if true, we will be hearing more details about the game in the very near future as the planned release is indeed 2008, most likely to bring some of the Resident Evil fanbase over to Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 in preparation for the release of Resident Evil 5 in 2009.

However, when asked “Are there any plans for the future to port RE4 on Xbox360 and PS3? Maybe with graphic restyling (720p) and new features…” over on Capcom’s Official Website, the response was thus:

That is what Resident Evil 5 is for. No plans for RE4 on 360 or PS3 at this time.

- Christian Svensson, Capcom Entertainment Inc. - Vice-President of Strategic Planning & Business Development.

The Horror is Alive, though, insists that something is indeed in the works, and has now provided the following two video clips of the supposed game in action. Check them out below:

But what are your thoughts on the matter? Could this indeed be real or just a hoax to get people’s hopes up for no reason? Be sure to air your opinions by posting below and stick around for more updates…

[Matt]

However, when asked “Are there any plans for the future to port RE4 on Xbox360 and PS3? Maybe with graphic restyling (720p) and new features…” over on Capcom’s Official Website, the response was thus:

That is what Resident Evil 5 is for. No plans for RE4 on 360 or PS3 at this time.

[chartwel]

That guy already posted on the original site admitting this was an april fools joke. they do it every year. hes already been banned from neogaf...........there is no port coming to the ps360 for Resident Evil 4.

[Kiosko]

Thank goodness. Forget RE4, GET TO WORK ON Re5!!!! :P

[jaxmkii]

lost intrest

[Kiosko]

I will never lose interest, unless it became another Duke Nukem fiasco...

[jaxmkii]

your alone zombies are everywhere... again

W.W.J.D.

[Matt]

RE5:

your alone zombies are everywhere... again

W.W.J.D.

GT5:

You're in a car, driving around a track.....again.

But seriously. if you've lost interest in the game, then don't bother posting in here.

[Kiosko]

Don't look into the light!

[jaxmkii]

hoping someone will prove me wrong.

[jaxmkii]

RE5:



GT5:

You're in a car, driving around a track.....again.

But seriously. if you've lost interest in the game, then don't bother posting in here.

and im finding GT is getting stale too

[Kiosko]

More GT for me! It probally will be the my first and last gt! I'm not really into these kinds of games, but it's so pretty and the GT TV interest me as I watch shows like nascar and stuff. Well I used to but this will ignite my motor. Now Ahem....Resident Evil+Brightness+Africa+Speed+Steroids=?

[Fredag]

Resident Evil 5 video in English

http://www.gamersyde.com/news_6297_en.html

A few weeks ago Famitsu Weekly was bundled with a DVD including a long video about Resident Evil 5, and showing a few seconds of game footage along with a long interview of Jun Takeuchi. Well it looks like Capcom now dubbed that video in part in English, and subtitled the rest before releasing it. Pretty nice of them, and quite interesting too.

[yoshaw]

^Ohh nice, been waiting for translation on this one. +rep as soon as I can again.

On another note. I'm fair skin, not white, not dark. So I don't know how exactly to relate to this article below. My opinion sides with the game. As I'm mature enough to realize such things wouldn't bother me even if my skin was darker than what it is now. I've never been treated differently because of my skin color. To put it out like that in this day and age. I think this concern is overdone. Or maybe I just love RE series way too much. In anycase, just pointing out that this post is purely my opinion alone. Please don't jump on me if I said something rude or it felt that way to anyone. My apologies in advance if it did.

Here's the article,

Croal lays into "racist" Resident Evil 5

Newsweek's games writer, N'Gai Croal, has expressed his concerns over the imagery depicted in the trailer for Capcom's forthcoming title Resident Evil 5, a trailer for which was shown at E3 last year.

"Wow, clearly no one black worked on this game," was his first reaction to seeing the trailer, he said in an interview with MTV Multiplayer.

"It's like when you engage that kind of imagery you have to be careful with it," he went on to explain. "It would be like saying you were going to do some sort of zombie movie that appeared to be set in Europe in the 1940's with skinny, emaciated, Hasidic-looking people.

"If you put up that imagery people would be saying, 'Are you crazy?' Well, that's what this stuff looks like. This imagery has a history. It has a history and you can't pretend otherwise.

"That imagery still has a history that has to be engaged, that has to be understood. If you're going to engage imagery that has that potential, the onus is on the creator to be aware of that because there will be repercussions in the marketplace."

The Resident Evil 5 trailer shows protagonist Chris Redfield in a small, poor and dusty village, the location of which isn't specified but is strongly reminiscent of certain third world countries.

Redfield is the only white character portrayed in the three minute trailer, while all of the zombies are made up of black inhabitants, who Redfield proceeds to try and kill - both male and female.

But Croal's argument isn't with the fact that the zombies shown were all black - it's the general treatment of the subject material that's he's concerned with.

"The point isn't that you can't have black zombies. There was a lot of imagery in that trailer that dovetailed with classic racist imagery," he said.

"That's the whole thing where only Chris Redfield appears to be human before they turn into zombies; the humanity of other people is in question. It's like you barely see their faces, he doesn't really interact with them, he sort of walks through this thing and it's sort of, 'Is he there? Is he not?'

"It's a very strange thing, and it taps into sort of this very racist iconography. I think that's the only way I'm describing it. I'm not saying that was their intent. But it seems that a lot of people who were up in arms about the trailer couldn't see that and didn't want to engage it.

"I think, again, the point is not that Capcom can't or shouldn't make a zombie game set in what appears to be an impoverished country where the majority of residents are black.

"I'm not saying that. But what I am saying is that if I was Capcom, I wouldn't have suggested to put out that trailer. I would have said, 'You know what, this has tremendous capacity for being misunderstood, and we want to signal that this is not what you might think it is' - and they didn't do that."

Initial reaction to the Resident Evil 5 trailer was mixed, with some people expressing unease at the content, while some gamers dismissed any racist connotations.

The game is set for release on the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 platforms later this year.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/croal-lays-into-racist-resident-evil-5

[AC!D]

Clearly Croal has never been to Africa cause thats exactly what villages look like in the poorer and dictator ridden countries. I got the impression from the trailer that Chris was there to help the villagers who were under viral experimentation from Umbrella so again i dont get where Croal gets big stong white man kill all evil black ppl in village BS from.

This is obviously gonna be a hot topic so maybe Capcom should just replace the black zombies with white ones and let these political campaign non gamer idiots look for something else to attack to score their political points. Its kind of funny how since the gaming industry has boomed more than any other industry except maybe the gun industry in recent years that all these attention seekers like Jack Thompson, Hilary Clinton, Roper, Obama, BBFC, Gordon Brown, Arnold Schwartz.... ( Biggest Hypocrite of them all) and many more have arrived to score political votes from moms and dads but little do they know that moms and dads if not at the moment will soon replace the older generation of non-gamers and we will be voting and paying for their salaries with our taxes.

[LiquidEagle]

Did people make this much of a fuss when Black Hawk Down came out??

[AC!D]

Did people make this much of a fuss when Black Hawk Down came out??

Nope but as i stated in my previous post gaming is the hot political topic for politicians and other groups to gain points with their respective supporters.
Whats next Patapon is Racial cause it represents tribalism?

[Matt]

There's that guy who thought Echochrome was racist, so who knows.

[curryking1]

Nope but as i stated in my previous post gaming is the hot political topic for politicians and other groups to gain points with their respective supporters.

^That too, and also the defense of Black Hawk Down is too easy. It was a real war and real event. But not only that.. it has the effect of being patriotic and even more defensable considering it was about the US Army.

This is not to imply I think BHD is racist... I'm just saying a crazy person would have to be even crazier to attack it for being racist.


"The point isn't that you can't have black zombies. There was a lot of imagery in that trailer that dovetailed with classic racist imagery," he said.

"That's the whole thing where only Chris Redfield appears to be human before they turn into zombies; the humanity of other people is in question. It's like you barely see their faces, he doesn't really interact with them, he sort of walks through this thing and it's sort of, 'Is he there? Is he not?'

"It's a very strange thing, and it taps into sort of this very racist iconography. I think that's the only way I'm describing it. I'm not saying that was their intent. But it seems that a lot of people who were up in arms about the trailer couldn't see that and didn't want to engage it.

"I think, again, the point is not that Capcom can't or shouldn't make a zombie game set in what appears to be an impoverished country where the majority of residents are black.

"I'm not saying that. But what I am saying is that if I was Capcom, I wouldn't have suggested to put out that trailer. I would have said, 'You know what, this has tremendous capacity for being misunderstood, and we want to signal that this is not what you might think it is' - and they didn't do that."

So he wants a disclaimer? What is Capcom supposed to say? 'This is not racist, so don't think it is?'

This Croal guy, from what I'm reading, seems to be backpedalling. The whole premise of the accusation that RE5 can be interpreted as racist is a pretty 'crying-of-wolf' to be honest...

If you know the actual context of Black Hawk Down, no one would accuse it of such things. But similarly, I think someone should also know the context of Resident Evil before jumping to conclusions.

I'm not defending RE5 but also because I don't think it needs defense. I think Croal needs a better reason to say 'This needs a label saying "I am not racist."'

P.S. At the same time Croal's words could even be interpreted as defense of Resident Evil maybe. Maybe his thinking is the intent is not trying to be racist but is simply worried others may interpret it as such. Who knows.

All in all, it looks like an uphill battle for Resident Evil 5... and probably a lot of free publicity to boot as well.

[Matt]

If you were being attacked by zombies, and they all happened to be black, would you pause and think, "hang on, will I be a racist if I start killing these guys?"

[curryking1]

Are you asking me or in general?

[Matt]

That was just a general question.

I bet if you looked closely at a lot of games, you could say they were racist. Like all the enemies in Uncharted being black and hispanic, or portaying people from Eastern Europe as immigrants, like in GTAIV. Or the bad guy in practically every game/film ever made being English. (lol I know that one is hardly related, but I never understood why it's like that).

I just think this guy has jumped in a little too quickly. It's not as if we know a lot about the story of RE5, but it's not like he just felt like going to some third world country to execute some people is it?

[LiquidEagle]

You kidding me!? Killing zombies is the epitome of being racist, because I think zombies technically are a different race!

Anyhoo, I maintain my Black Hawk Down analogy. Obviously that movie was based on a real event, but if you know what the movie's about you'd have to be an idiot to call it bigoted. Likewise, once you see what RE5 is about (all you have to know is ZOMBIES), you'd have to be an idiot to call foul on the fact that a white guy is killing black zombies.

[curryking1]

Anyhoo, I maintain my Black Hawk Down analogy. Obviously that movie was based on a real event, but if you know what the movie's about you'd have to be an idiot to call it bigoted.

I agreed with that lol :P

The context should count for something in both cases.

I think I'm just still wondering what Croal thinks a disclaimer/whatever type of disclaimer he means would do. I mean... that is what he is asking Capcom to do it seems... to let people know somehow it's not racist.

Wouldn't that just be saying what the context of RE5 is then? Or asking people not to quickly pull the trigger until they can easily find out what the context is?

[Segitz]

Everything and everybody and be "constructed" racist... I don't know how black people feel in the US (I say black, because most "colored" people around here aren't american, so african-american doesn't apply), but when some people say, that a game is racist because of that... those people have some serious issues.

If it was the other way around (i.e. a black guy killing whites), nobody would say a word. Ok, the history in general would be different, but still, the "end of all means" would be exactly the same, but vice versa.

Why is such stuff ALWAYS destilled down to such dumb things... I doubt even Capcom knew, they were doing something offensive. I also get offended by many US movies, where german WW2 soldiers are portrayed as dumb heartless monsters (most of those people where children, who where forced to go to war), who'd kill anyone in a blink of an eye, yet the Americans are "the super soldiers"... Do I complain, or do Germans complain?? Surely not!

There should be an Iraq War game, where you could play as Taliban and use your guerilla tactics against the Americans... I swear to god, that many Americans would cry foul (I don't want to generalize here, just for the sake of an argument here!)...

[OG_Monkey]

They are killing my ancestors! IM MAD!

[AC!D]

They are killing my ancestors! IM MAD!

Dont you mean you are gonna kill them when you get the game lol :)

[Transcend]

So because Leon looked vaguely similar to some of the Spanish zombies you kill throughout the game; there's absolutely nothing wrong with that situation (to the critic who claims Resident Evil 5 is racist)?

Just to clarify (because I could never find proof), this game takes place in Haiti, right?

[Matt]

All I know is that it's somewhere in Africa.

[OG_Monkey]

And my parents are African! I'm more mad! Jk

But seriously, it couldve been in America, I wouldn't have cared, but setting it in Africa is just fucked up IMO. I don't really care that they are black, like I said, it couldve been black people in America, but not Africa. And I see where some are coming from, before it was color vs color, now its a white guy killing a bunch of black people in Africa, and he had the nerve to say "we wanted to show where the virus started", thats fucked up to me cuz it reminds me of HIV which is a problem in Africa, its just wrong.

I'm not saying its racist! I'm saying the setting is just wrong. There are white people in Africa too. Will that affect my purchase of the game? Maybe, cuz like I said, my parents are African, so am I, I guess, but I was just born in the US so African-American. I mean if I buy it, I'll love it to death, but the fact that I'm killing a bunch of African and black people will still ne in my head. AGAIN, I'm not saying its racist, just disrespect. Go kill a bunch of Asians in Japan with a white/black guy as the main character and say thats where the virus started etc, see what'll happen.

-OG!

[curryking1]

There are white people in Africa of course. Many white people in South Africa. But that doesn't mean that their aren't thousands of completely black communities in Africa OG.

I can see the sensitivity with the HIV issue though. That's actually a good point. I also think I kind of see the point as well with Africa in general in a very poor social situation and having 'any' game character go there and kill large communities of people. It's not like genocide and poverty is an issue that has left much of Africa...

I think the better thing about killing 1000s of Japanese people in Tokyo in a game or 2000 Brits in Britain is that realistically it's not remotely like what the reality is. That really well just wouldn't be happening and there's no real imagery to observe because it doesn't realistically apply.

Africa is still in a pretty grim reality so I guess that's what makes it most touchy. So... I guess I'm kind of reserved about the whole idea too I guess.

[OG_Monkey]

Your point is? You think I don't know that?

[cliffbo]

i'm sick of this black/white issue! how many people would have complained if it was in a white community? PC bores me to death! i hate racism, but this isn't racist at all, it's just the setting they chose for this game

[Matt]

Why does setting a game in one place make it worse than another?

[curryking1]

Your point is? You think I don't know that?

OG, let me edit my posts... I edit a lot... want to read it now? No thanks to the attitude btw. Chill.

Why does setting a game in one place make it worse than another?

I guess simply because it still has some real emotional value still. I think it should as well.

Genocide or widespread death from disease or ethnic cleansing isn't really a worry in a developed country is it?

Genocide and starvation and disease (these foaming at the mouth, malnutrition, etc...) is a very real world for a lot of Africa though. Especially for black people in Africa considering it is black people who happen to make up much of the least fortunate people and live in such slums (or worse) and who are exposed to these horrors.

Just try to look at it with a more sensitive eye to real and current world issues. I think that's the best point of all as to why it's questionable to put this in Africa.

It's not really the killing only black people that is bad, it's just that in Africa it's very realistic that many people are diseased and are murdered everyday. Murdered with starvation or murdered with disease or murdered through guns and shooting. I think that's a fair point to raise.

[cliffbo]

Why does setting a game in one place make it worse than another?

exactly!!!! we are all the same. OG you are a great bloke

[Matt]

Curry, it's a video game where people turn into zombies.

To respond to your last point, people die everyday in New York, so why isn't there such a problem with GTAIV?

[curryking1]

Matt, I think I understand that.

You don't need to emboss the letters in another post saying the same thing to get your point across. I understand the point.

I'm just saying it's a touchy issue and I agree with OG I think.

I mean should we see a videogame about holocaust victims being turned into zombies too? I dunno. Maybe some people want that or others don't care if it happens. It's not important to them whether or not it happens.

But the reality is that some people are still very attached to these horrible events like the holocaust.

Others are really attached to horrible events in Africa. And these events are still occurring.

Should we have a game simulating 9/11 as soon as it happened? I dunno.

That's all.

All I know is people tell me awareness is the solution to a lot of problems. But I can also see some valid humanistic arguments against the setting of this particular game.

[LiquidEagle]

Yeah, this really doesn't matter. Croal shouldn't have said anything IMO.

And Curry, there have been movies that not only simulate 9/11 (they're more documentaries though), but stuff like MGS2 featured Arsenal Gear crashing into the Financial District of NYC (and it was originally going to have picked up the Statue of Liberty too!), and CoD4 was set in Chernobyl -- we all know how sad Chernobyl is.

[Matt]

Seeing as the holocaust happened in WWII, why isn't there such an outcry when those games come out?

Anyway, this is pointless, the game is coming out, whether people like it or not.

[Transcend]

I think this is a case of some people being too sensitive.

It's not like the HIV crisis in Africa is a new phenomenon - it exists, and has existed for quite some time now; would there be a more opportune time to make a game in Africa (i.e when HIV/AIDs is no longer an issue?) - something not likely to happen for quite some time.

I realize that there are still some negative stigmas attached to it - but we need to put the fact that this is a video game to the forefront of the argument and start using sensible judgement when we interpret things.

What are you suggesting, OG?

That they sprinkle in a few white people here and there to even out the quota? :)

[curryking1]

Seeing as the holocaust happened in WWII, why isn't there such an outcry when those games come out?

First off, what does this mean? Do you mean why people don't care that World War II games come out? Maybe because there is rarely ever reference to the Holocaust and the games entirely focus on kicking Nazi butt? Which few people have a problem with?

(I know Segitz kind of recognizes that not all German soldiers were 100% straight up 35 year old evil people, but we'll leave that out for sake of simplicity).

And if there were a game about the Holocaust, or a book, or a movie now, maybe because it happened in World War II and there's a lot fewer people who are emotionally disturbed or attached to the issue now?

People are a lot less emotionally attached and now more willing to witness the events *as observers* considering there is so much less actual connection to the events themselves as time goes on.

Now the situation in Africa? Main idea - it's current, alive, real world scenario. Right now, while we sit here, and many people are very interested in the welfare of Africans in need, many of whom are in fact black.

I'm quite aware there are many people disturbed by the fact that *currently*, as in happening right now, a ridiculously them being blacks in Africa having ridiculously low levels of welfare.

It'd be nice if one of you could string more than 2 coherent sentences to actually have a discussion, but I guess I'm too wishful. Maybe something more than 'Oh it's just a videogame' would be nice.

I'm just bringing up the argument. Don't shoot the messenger.

It's a discussion. I'm just taking the time to explore another side of the argument and see what's going on there and trying to understand it better. If you've already made up your mind long before we've even started discussing this I'm not sure why you'd partake in a discussion. Just saying. That's goes to all people on this issue.

God, at least Transcend actually made an effort to put a comment in about it. Thank you. And thank you Liquid also.

And Curry, there have been movies that not only simulate 9/11 (they're more documentaries though), but stuff like MGS2 featured Arsenal Gear crashing into the Financial District of NYC (and it was originally going to have picked up the Statue of Liberty too!), and CoD4 was set in Chernobyl -- we all know how sad Chernobyl is.

9/11 - It's well known that a lot of people were partisaned over the idea and were debating whether or not it was too early. Not the documentary ones (documentaries were like the 2003 fad or something), but the feature films with star casts.
MGS2 - not a realistic situation. Very fictional in terms of how it happened. It has a jumping robot octopus. I'll leave it at that.
Cherynobyl - It was only 1986 but it's something that favours zero interest. Why? I don't know. Not enough love for Russia I guess. STALKER was also in Cherynobyl but there was zero uproar on the issue simply because it wasn't a popular humanist issue.

Have a good day peeps, peace outz.

[Matt]

Well I'm so sorry for not being clever enough to be able to articulate myself as well as you guys can. I do have brain damage, you realise, and since then I've hardly managed to have a "decent" discussion with anybody, so please excuse me if the way I say things isn't clever enough for you.

People have made exactly the same points as I have, they've just put it in a way that is more constructive to the argument. I won't bother contributing anymore, because obviously I'm not good enough to.

[curryking1]

Are you really that offended that you want to take it that personally? We are on the internet, on a videogame forum. Chill.

I guess this avatar get to be the one antagonized by both sides of the argument for trying to look at both sides of the argument. Poor me. :(

[Matt]

Are you really that offended that you want to take it that personally? We are on the internet, on a videogame forum. Chill.

I guess this avatar get to be the one antagonized by both sides of the argument for trying to look at both sides of the argument. Poor me. :(

I'm annoyed that people come in and make the same points I've made (albeit in a better way), and you basically say that I'm not putting any effort in.

As you say, this is the internet, so big deal.....

[masteratt]

Capcom said that's the place they've chosen because that's where humanity started, in Africa.

With colonies over the world setting up there and so on and so it's only natural that the virus starts there for humans.

I completely understands the points against this and think they are 100% valid but they are simply just looking into it too deep and sensitively.

[Segitz]

So...

thing is... where I have a problem with WWII shooters is, that it shoves every German into the "Nazi Category". I've had PLENTY discussion with Brits, Americans and the like, and they all were "afraid" of me... When I was in London, I was sometimes greated with the Nazi Salute... WTF is that about? But this comes more from movies than from games, I think. I mean, look at crap like Hellboy or whatnot...

Thing is, we in Germany have the "Central Committee of Jews" (literally translated), and they ALWAYS cry foul when something, even remotely can be construed antisemitic, even if it doesn't make sense on a grand scale. This doesn't involve any videogames (at least, as far as I know), but mostly politicians etc.

There was this one time, where one of the committee guys was involved in a coke and whore scandal... He was found guilty (iirc), yet his TV career didn't even get a dent. (If he wasn't a member of that commitee, I would bet quite a bit of my hard earned money, that he wouldn't be on TV anymore).

I guess, those African-Americans are similar that way. Since nothing "media worthy" was happening, they jumped onto RE5, just for the sake of it.

I think, I am one of the least racist people I know, since I couldn't care less about race or looks (I usually prefer asian women too^^) (I do however have problems with religion, but that is a different story... and I don't want to persuade ANYONE to abandon his belief), yet when I judge people, I get the sledgehammer of "racist" hit right in my face by some people. I have my prejudices, no doubt, but those do not involve race!

[LiquidEagle]

MGS2 - not a realistic situation. Very fictional in terms of how it happened. It has a jumping robot octopus. I'll leave it at that.
Cherynobyl - It was only 1986 but it's something that favours zero interest. Why? I don't know. Not enough love for Russia I guess. STALKER was also in Cherynobyl but there was zero uproar on the issue simply because it wasn't a popular humanist issue.

Exactly -- MGS2 wasn't a realistic situation, neither is RE5. So why should one be a big deal and the other one isn't? It's not like RE5 is mocking the fact that Africa is in horrible shape, people are just jumping to the worst possible conclusion and then trying to cover their irrationality by saying, "it's not my opinion, but somebody out there is going to think this." I say we let the people who are going to be stupid & overly sensitive (a really annoying combo) be as they are, and they can make a fuss if they want, but we as reasonable people should know better then to continue discussing this complaint as if it has credibility, or even to generate a silly argument that we all admit only people who are uninformed and overly sensitive would make.

With that, I don't want to be in this thread any more. I don't want you to take offence Curry, but I just don't want to continue perpetuating an argument that I think is completely unnecessary.

[OG_Monkey]

OG, let me edit my posts... I edit a lot... want to read it now? No thanks to the attitude btw. Chill.




It wasnt a attitude with that, my bad

[AC!D]

I was born and live in Africa and im guessing not a single one of you have ever set foot there and yet harbour such strong opinions on whats offensive based on what exactly the shit you see on CNN? I havent exactly seen this uproar coming out of Africa for the game just so called politically correct Americans and Brits. Its a fictional world with the undead for f..k sakes who cares what colour they are.

[bilbobob007]

I can see why some parties could be offended by the trailer. After all everyone must remember that a large amount of the population will swallow any old drivel spouted from newspapers ect.

I just think its a way to get ratings or whatever. Look at the end of uncharted, The protagonist in that turned out to be dark skinned. So are we saying all baddie treasure hunters are mexicans or whatever he was, cannot remember.

As i remember it plenty of white trash died in previous resident evils. Dont remember anyone shouting about them. Hell look at all those villagers in R.E4. I dont hear many Rednecks shouting from there pickups.

Wow that should of offended just about everyone.

[Nameless]

All I have to say is the location and combatants could be viewed as socially insensitive based on the current condition of most African nations. I personally have not found any of the current footage troubling, but this game could be a powder keg if not handled properly.

Also, I can only imagine the youtube music videos made from game footage...

At least one good thing is coming from this controversy we are discussing the political, social and health issues plaguing African nations. Unfortunately some of the comments are reckless and thoughtless, but at least the discussions are taking place…

[yoshaw]

Ahhh god!! I almost read it. Put spoiler tags around it Bilbobob.

God dammit!!! Mods, step in asap please. Jeez!!

Bilbo, I'ma gonna burn that fuse on yer terrorist pussy cat n blow it to smithereens. RAWR!!

PS: Wait a second. That pussy(bilbo avatar (http://forums.e-mpire.com/image.php?u=17043&dateline=1201305914)) is wearing an Arab-esque clothing with TNT strapped all over, right?! Could this also be deemed racist? lol

[Matt]

Fixed.

[AC!D]

All I have to say is the location and combatants could be viewed as socially insensitive based on the current condition of most African nations. I personally have not found any of the current footage troubling, but this game could be a powder keg if not handled properly.

Also, I can only imagine the youtube music videos made from game footage...

At least one good thing is coming from this controversy we are discussing the political, social and health issues plaguing African nations. Unfortunately some of the comments are reckless and thoughtless, but at least the discussions are taking place…

I think you dont quite understand why some ppl find this entire thing a laugh Nameless because i dont believe its a real issue. Why isnt there an uproar from these so called journalists about the real issues e.g The Zimbabwe elections with the dictator Mugabe not releasing the vote count after 2 weeks now because he lost the election. Why is there no uproar about American Companies in Nigeria practically stripping the country of oil with all the profits going to the elite Dictators and there are many more examples but im sure you get my point.

These are the real issues that could help Africa. How exactly does the banning of Res 5 help Africa ? This is the part where you tell me that this is a gaming issue well then to you i say doesnt putting measures in place to stop racism on X-box live or on PSN more real an issue than Resi 5?

[Segitz]

I think you dont quite understand why some ppl find this entire thing a laugh Nameless because i dont believe its a real issue. Why isnt there an uproar from these so called journalists about the real issues e.g The Zimbabwe elections with the dictator Mugabe not releasing the vote count after 2 weeks now because he lost the election. Why is there no uproar about American Companies in Nigeria practically stripping the country of oil with all the profits going to the elite Dictators and there are many more examples but im sure you get my point.

These are the real issues that could help Africa. How exactly does the banning of Res 5 help Africa ? This is the part where you tell me that this is a gaming issue well then to you i say doesnt putting measures in place to stop racism on X-box live or on PSN more real an issue than Resi 5?

There's a big difference between the two...

The one is about Africa itself and the other one is about something that is about Africans. Same here. When politicians make new laws (or try to), that make a marriage "on test for 6 years" (so, you can get divorced in a blink of an eye) possible, yet we have really big problems with integration of foreigners...

As I said before, I think those people, that complained about it being racist are only construeing this into the matter to be noticed in the news and media, not because it really is racist.

And the problems in Africa... Do you think, America gives a damn about that continent after a century of exploitation and whatnot? (Same for Europe, although to a lesser degree)

[AC!D]

There's a big difference between the two...

The one is about Africa itself and the other one is about something that is about Africans. Same here. When politicians make new laws (or try to), that make a marriage "on test for 6 years" (so, you can get divorced in a blink of an eye) possible, yet we have really big problems with integration of foreigners...

As I said before, I think those people, that complained about it being racist are only construeing this into the matter to be noticed in the news and media, not because it really is racist.

And the problems in Africa... Do you think, America gives a damn about that continent after a century of exploitation and whatnot? (Same for Europe, although to a lesser degree)

Well said Segitz!

[yoshaw]

I wanna read some new info on RE5 rather than reading why people want to argue Race and RE5 in the same sentence or want to protect it from accusations. Augh, I'm gonna vomit. It kills to admit that I was the one who posted the Croal article >_<

[AC!D]

I wanna read some new info on RE5 rather than reading why people want to argue Race and RE5 in the same sentence or want to protect it from accusations. Augh, I'm gonna vomit. It kills to admit that I was the one who posted the Croal article >_<

The problem with news on the game now is that we dont know if the game will be delayed because of this uproar. Assuming that what Takeuchi said about the game being set in Africa as the start of all life is true then the game is going to have to undergo a complete rewrite and also the shadow/light gameplay mechanics will have to change unless a similar climate like in the middle East can be used but then ensues more uproar if you use Arab zombies. So this could cause a huge delay to the game thanks to ppl like Croal.

[Nameless]

^ Croal gave his opinion everyone has one...
It would be reckless and unfair to blame a delay on his comments.
Capcom should have known the setting could have potential ramifications and to think otherwise is very naive IMO. I agree with Croal I doubt a single African or African American is part of the development process. *Hell they could have contacted a consultant...*

[yoshaw]

You think there's something wrong with not consulting with an African American. Sounds odd given how WWII army games don't have german or other consultants at hand to differ right from wrong. Most it appears, they just go by movies or material at hand. I'm sure there's much more to the equation but just like you're assuming Capcom isn't/maynot be consulting a African/American regarding this. Same with me assuming no other developer either.

Why the uproar only for one race and not others? I'm sure each race out there has had a bad association of some sort they don't want portrayed yet it does get portrayed. Not to make this personal but you know I do feel offended sometimes when such things occur. Why not Arabs or Asians or Tibetans. Augh, I'm just blabbering here. There is so much more to this world than me worrying about this issue. Sorry if I sound bored by the issue.

I just wanna play a frikkin game. It's the same reason why a lot of past games have gone by without causing an uproar amongst communities(Arab/Russia/China/Korea/Pakistan) that have been shown as bad people in the past in lots of videogames to date. Why should one race be considered superior to others.

Ah, I don't give a damn otherwise! But if someone(Croal) flails the topic in front of my face as their race needs more attention to detail, ofcourse I'm gonna be offended. Everyone is the same to me and this is a frikkin videogame. Croal has an opinion, fine. But if others run with it only to impose it as a major issue. I'm not ok with that. Sorry.

Edit: Fcuk, I went ahead n started again. My bad if someone quotes me and I don't reply. I just don't give a damn seriously. To me everyone is equal and I'm sorry if any race feels offended over a videogames portrayel. But I'm not in a position to criticise it IMHO. I haven't criticized any other race's demoralization before. Why should it concern me now? That's why, I just want RE5 as the developers intended. I don't care what the game is just like other games, no matter whatever their material was.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I'll just say this. Anyone who believes that games can be art, or even high art, can't employ the 'it's just a game' argument. In defense of any game that sparks controversy. It's the definition of contradictory.

[curryking1]

I'll just say this. Anyone who believes that games can be art, or even high art, can't employ the 'it's just a game' argument. In defense of any game that sparks controversy. It's the definition of contradictory.

[yoshaw]

I'll just say this. Anyone who believes that games can be art, or even high art, can't employ the 'it's just a game' argument. In defense of any game that sparks controversy. It's the definition of contradictory.

I'd say it again in general terms(and as an opinion) if I hadn't made my point across earlier. Where were these concerns and righteous feelings(from Croal or anyone else) when other races or communities were getting the same treatment in videogames?

I don't want to hear foul cry from Croal about mistreatment of one color when he wasn't there to cry foul for other races getting mistreated in past videogames. Correct me if I'm wrong. Otherwise, that's just selfish behavior on Croal's part, IMO.

Hence, my notion, that it's just a frikkin videogame and no one of us should be banging on the subject of "oh, it's racist because", because we don't have the right to IMO. Who the fuck are we? Aren't we just gamers only? Yea, we must correct what's wrong. But why in this case only. Why awaken our senses and righteousness only for one subject now when we didn't bother for any other in the past? Why RE5 be treated differently than any other?

Prove me a rational about this whole situation.(rhetorical)

I understand the contradiction each of us could have with the topic. The issue, no matter how much I'd want to stay clear of, does come off a bit overly sensitive. Even when I said this earlier, I'll stick with it this time. No more participation from me in this topic. I've made it look like black and white but ofcourse there are plenty shades of grey on the topic. Apologies if I offended someone in the process. Ahh, I'm gonna do a 12 hour sleep now.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

That's 2 things: People standing up for their respective ethnic backgrounds; a person shouting for the sake of everyone else's race is going to be the exception no matter where you go. the meme of 'my people' is ingrained in human behavior. sorry, but that's how it is. He's human. Not excusing it, but that's the fact. I'm gonna stand up for the people who look like me. We can preach the ideal and take the high road, but let's paint the broad strokes here.

2nd thing. White Guilt. I think it's self explanatory. Yes, Capcom is a Japanese company, but they will be selling the game in america, where black people, if not directly, have indirectly been and felt beset at all sides by disenfranchisement, discrimination and prejudice, not to mention caricature. So today's white people have to pay for the mistakes of their fathers. And a lot of times, Japan doesn't even get racism (except against...other...asians...explain that one) and sometimes are down right insensitive. And it doesn't help when their only impression of black people comes from MTV and other exported American television. So...not saying your argument isn't legit, Yoshaw, but don't ignore the obvious. Human nature, american history and as the result a lot of baggage the country carries. American Slavery was over 130 years ago, but in the breadth of human history that's nothing.

[curryking1]

So... should I just quote you again Lali?

I strongly agree. These are not ancient issues. These are current, delicate issues. Racism is still a very prevalent thing. And even poverty and disease and genocide in Africa are current issues and recent events respectively.

Capcom's game developers obviously don't take these situations to heart. Japan is a pretty modern country. There's no famine or mass poverty and overwhelmingly prevalent disease. And a black and white issue isn't something that Japan is most exposed to.

But there's a ton of people who have to experience these issues first hand, and a ton of people who want to fight it with them, and some silly cheesy videogame from half way across the world that even just visually undermines those steps towards sending those issues away can be taken very seriously.

It's funny that even sometimes evidence can show that things people will say should be allowed to 'slide by' can actually statistically deter progress of some hypothetical group's or groups' humanitarian action. But that often isn't a requirement to suffice the needs that people should demand in protecting people that look like themselves.

Because effectively it's not really protecting your group of people only. It's protecting yourself too, and that's always important as well.

[masonite]

So... should I just quote you again Lali?

I strongly agree. These are not ancient issues. These are current, delicate issues. Racism is still a very prevalent thing. And even poverty and disease and genocide in Africa are current issues and recent events respectively.

Capcom's game developers obviously don't take these situations to heart. Japan is a pretty modern country. There's no famine or mass poverty and overwhelmingly prevalent disease. And a black and white issue isn't something that Japan is most exposed to.

But there's a ton of people who have to experience these issues first hand, and a ton of people who want to fight it with them, and some silly cheesy videogame from half way across the world that even just visually undermines those steps towards sending those issues away can be taken very seriously.

It's funny that even sometimes evidence can show that things people will say should be allowed to 'slide by' can actually statistically deter progress of some hypothetical group's or groups' humanitarian action. But that often isn't a requirement to suffice the needs that people should demand in protecting people that look like themselves.

Because effectively it's not really protecting your group of people only. It's protecting yourself too, and that's always important as well.



Well said. A trailer of a white person walking through a country of black people infected with a disease that gives the white person a reason to kill them all is insensetive to the issues, regardless of how far removed it is from real life. The fact that its set in africa is even worse, because of the history of racism and apartheid that is prevalent throughout the history there.

People talk about 9/11 as a comparison, but the reality is that there is no comparison. 9/11 is an isolated incident, where 3000 people died. It's tragic, and people are understandably sensitive about it. However it pales in comparison to the tradgedy of the way native people have been treated in africa over the last few centuries, and to claim one isolated tradgedy is too sensetive to talk about whilst an issue which resulted in the death and displacement of millions of people can be imitated in a video game is quite a high form of hypocrisy.

there may have been a movie made about 9/11, but if there was a game made about it, or even echoed it, there'd be uproar.

When it came to 9/11, people insisted the entire world be censored. But when it comes to racism in africa (whether implied or real) the same people are saying its not that important. Really, the game shouldn't have gotten this far into development before someone pointed out the possible interpretations of what is being displayed.

[Segitz]

Well said. A trailer of a white person walking through a country of black people infected with a disease that gives the white person a reason to kill them all is insensetive to the issues, regardless of how far removed it is from real life. The fact that its set in africa is even worse, because of the history of racism and apartheid that is prevalent throughout the history there.

If you boil it down to this, then... yeah it seems racist, but this is not, AT ALL, what the game is about. It is like saying the same thing about RE4... "You are in Spain, there are people infected with disease... Kill them". This is NOT what the game is about.

[Z]

RE5 is one of those games that scream "next-gen". it looks amazing and I cannot wait for the wicked boss fights. one look at any part of the game, nobody will doubt it is huge and 'next-gen'. I would put it on the level of R&C, Uncharted, GT5 and the rest. it is especially impressive when they showed it so early (with MGS4 and GT5). I still want to think the game is coming out this year. though there is no confirmation, I hope it does. RE4 was great, and RE5 looks to even upper it*.


* note: Z likes to invent new uses and words like that. he is sleeping with Mariam Webster, so he can. you, however, can't. suck it.

[masonite]

If you boil it down to this, then... yeah it seems racist, but this is not, AT ALL, what the game is about. It is like saying the same thing about RE4... "You are in Spain, there are people infected with disease... Kill them". This is NOT what the game is about.

a trailer for a game can never fully explain what a game is all about, indeed, its trying not to. Sure, the game is not about racosm, but that is how the game can appear to look. The game isn't being explicitly racist, but given the history of the region, it is insensetive to create a game where such a conclusion is able to be made.

Spain hasn't experienced the horrors of an apartheid system, and RE4 didn't show one cross section of society being destroyed by another. RE4 doesn't echo past social attitudes; the trailer (and possibly the game) RE5 does.

Whilst the concept of genocide may seem so foreign to us in the west that we can easily live with a similar idea existing in a computer game, the reality is that africa is no stranger to this horrific situation, and a computer game with neutral intentions can come across quite badly if it doesn't take the local history into account. Genocide doesn't come to mind at all when we think of Spain, however it does whith Africa.

[JasonXe]

Making my head explode, this whole race thing is. Hear something about the game already, I just want to. Hmmmmmm.

[bilbobob007]

Ahhh god!! I almost read it. Put spoiler tags around it Bilbobob.

God dammit!!! Mods, step in asap please. Jeez!!

Bilbo, I'ma gonna burn that fuse on yer terrorist pussy cat n blow it to smithereens. RAWR!!

PS: Wait a second. That pussy(bilbo avatar (http://forums.e-mpire.com/image.php?u=17043&dateline=1201305914)) is wearing an Arab-esque clothing with TNT strapped all over, right?! Could this also be deemed racist? lol

SORRY i typed that message late on and completely forgot. my bad really am sorry.

Yes it could be seen as racist. But I like to think we still just about live in a world where people can see the funny side of things. I sure dont mean no offence with it.

If it does offend people by all means just say and i will change it.

[yoshaw]

That's 2 things: People standing up for their respective ethnic backgrounds; a person shouting for the sake of everyone else's race is going to be the exception no matter where you go. the meme of 'my people' is ingrained in human behavior. sorry, but that's how it is. He's human. Not excusing it, but that's the fact. I'm gonna stand up for the people who look like me. We can preach the ideal and take the high road, but let's paint the broad strokes here.

Lali, your word carries weight. There is no way I can ignore a fact, no matter how hard I try to step aside from it. It does take an exception and world is not made of that kind of people looking after all at once, very true. The 'my people' meme you described is exactly what it is.

My bad, for I was talking big in earlier posts, demanding previous wrongs amended as well. Whereas, a good path would be to demand any future wrong doings to be corrected. And this is where I stand corrected now.

I might have come off a bit arrogant earlier in the thread. My Apologies!

2nd thing. White Guilt. I think it's self explanatory. Yes, Capcom is a Japanese company, but they will be selling the game in america, where black people, if not directly, have indirectly been and felt beset at all sides by disenfranchisement, discrimination and prejudice, not to mention caricature. So today's white people have to pay for the mistakes of their fathers. And a lot of times, Japan doesn't even get racism (except against...other...asians...explain that one) and sometimes are down right insensitive. And it doesn't help when their only impression of black people comes from MTV and other exported American television. So...not saying your argument isn't legit, Yoshaw, but don't ignore the obvious. Human nature, american history and as the result a lot of baggage the country carries. American Slavery was over 130 years ago, but in the breadth of human history that's nothing.

Another fact you state at the end. A detail, I admit I might have not seriously researched during this discussion. Indeed, the sensitivity related to this matter should be respected given the occurences in the past. Treading safely is the only way for Capcom before/after they release the game in North America or anywhere else in the world. I stand corrected my friend.

[AC!D]

This is why the world will never change because ppl will always convert the non real issues into bigger ones with a zero potential positive outcome instead of taking action on the real issues which could change the world for the better.

[Gummy]

So... RE 5 will be a good game.
I'd buy it so I can kill zombies, woo!

[cliffbo]

So... RE 5 will be a good game.
I'd buy it so I can kill zombies, woo!

i don't know if i dare kill those zombies

[curryking1]

This is why the world will never change because ppl will always convert the non real issues into bigger ones with a zero potential positive outcome instead of taking action on the real issues which could change the world for the better.

You're hilarious.

I guess you've experienced so many things in the world to come to this conclusion.

Let's just say racism doesn't exist and not think about it anymore and it will disappear.

That will certainly magically turn all the racist people and ethnic wars into a large cloud of fine perfume.

Your self claiming proactive solution is "do nothing because we should assume it's not there." When it is in fact there and millions of people experience it everyday. Amazing.

[Passive]

tbh... i dont care what color their skin is. they try and eat me, they're going down ^^

[curryking1]

tbh... i dont care what color their skin is. they try and eat me, their going down ^^

There seems to be an odd assumption that me or Lali or someone else thinks this is a bad thing. Not that you are thinking it Passive... I'm taking your post because it's not actually one I want to single out. Just for illustrative purposes ;)

But that is just the general feeling I'm getting from other responses in the thread... that we don't want you to kill zombies solely for some sore feelings and other misplaced reasons.

Just to make it clear to others... it is simply that it will be making a statement, regardless of whether they intended it to, in places like America where black and white issues are still more than common place.

If it doesn't bother 'you' (speaking as you in general) that isn't a problem, it is only the statement and image it can represent especially in a place like North America.

[JasonXe]

tbh... i dont care what color their skin is. they try and eat me, their going down ^^

Relationships, can I knock down a zombie and have, hmm? Herh herh herh.

[Passive]

^lol read those in yodas voice i do herh herh herh


But for srs now lol.
I very much agree with you Curry. I was stating that i dont give a shit because im not at all like that. in my eyes boths sides of the arguement are racist. hear me out. okay there are those who will get their jollies off by killing black folks therefore rasist in some way. BUT there are those who see killing black folks as a bad thing. most would say thats not racist. but in my view thats just as bad as a racist person. To sit there and claim your not racist only to single out and get worked up over killing black people in a game? if anything.. that highlights out black people more doesnt it? :P

Not sure if that made a whole lot of sense to anyone as im just spewing my mind here but its like a sexists. there is the kind who will slap a girls ass for funsies. and then there is a man who will try and protect that girl. who is the worst sexist out of the two? imo both are as bad, slapping ass is bad in the obvious way but thinking a girl needs protecting is also sexists. Same applies for the whole racism issue, to bring up the issue is such a light promotes racism in a way, it brings up the issue alot more and therefore reminds us its in the worse further adding salt to the wounds of history.

[masonite]

^lol read those in yodas voice i do herh herh herh


But for srs now lol.
I very much agree with you Curry. I was stating that i dont give a shit because im not at all like that. in my eyes boths sides of the arguement are racist. hear me out. okay there are those who will get their jollies off by killing black folks therefore rasist in some way. BUT there are those who see killing black folks as a bad thing. most would say thats not racist. but in my view thats just as bad as a racist person. To sit there and claim your not racist only to single out and get worked up over killing black people in a game? if anything.. that highlights out black people more doesnt it? :P

Not sure if that made a whole lot of sense to anyone as im just spewing my mind here but its like a sexists. there is the kind who will slap a girls ass for funsies. and then there is a man who will try and protect that girl. who is the worst sexist out of the two? imo both are as bad, slapping ass is bad in the obvious way but thinking a girl needs protecting is also sexists. Same applies for the whole racism issue, to bring up the issue is such a light promotes racism in a way, it brings up the issue alot more and therefore reminds us its in the worse further adding salt to the wounds of history.


Well no, they're not both racist/sexist, one side is racist/sexist and the other side is patronising if taken to the extreme. The guy protecting the girl isn't doing so because she's a girl, he doing it because someone is being sexist. Rather than sit there and watch, and pretend it doesn't matter, he's going out there and helping her.

Highlighting the issue of racism isn't the same as racism. You're drawing attention to the fact that a certain situation is a problem, not the situation itself.

[Matt]

OK, maybe we should draw a line under this and get back to the actual game, rather than the racism discussion.

If you wanna carry it on, then by all means, go and start a topic in general discussion or world affairs. But let's leave this topic for the actual game, rather than this.

[Passive]

The guy going out of his way in my view is still a sexist IF he generalises and thinks all girls need protecting, therefore helping out the girl based on his "girls are weak" view.

and you make a valid point about racism. let me poner :P and sleep. i'll get back to you lol. Nice to see a deep topic on here though.


EDIT: or not lol

[AC!D]

You're hilarious.

I guess you've experienced so many things in the world to come to this conclusion.

Let's just say racism doesn't exist and not think about it anymore and it will disappear.

That will certainly magically turn all the racist people and ethnic wars into a large cloud of fine perfume.

Your self claiming proactive solution is "do nothing because we should assume it's not there." When it is in fact there and millions of people experience it everyday. Amazing.

If you read my previous posts 2 pages back you would see what im getting at and you would get off your high horse. If you think you are so right why didnt you answer my questions in those posts?

Incase you cant understand what my question was then ill spell it out for you again. Why not get proactive in something that will have a positive effect on the war against racism instead mouthing off against Resi 5 which will have a zero positive outcome except making ppl like you who mouth off feel better about themselves. The obvious one for you in gaming would be the constant racism online if that is to hard for you to figure out. Why not speak out on that and have MS and Sony do something about that?

These groups speaking out why do they hide when the bigger issues pop up like the probs in Africa or even racism in online gaming instead only pop up to take shots at games like Loco Rocco and Resi 5? just like the media are taking shots at violence in gaming by paying ppl for their stories of violence related to games and then publishing them.

The game might be insensitive to some but banning it or changing it will change nothing is my point. We should all be getting involved in something that would change things. Get active in a real issues like online racism and that will change the world and then these ppl that mouth off might actually have to get their hands dirty cause actions speak louder than words and because they will count for more votes at the end of the day.

Then Lali said If a game is considered art then we should all have a problem with Resi 5. So its ok to target the game industry suddenly cause its booming with money but give the movie industry a pass for movies like Black Hawk Down?

It pisses me off that my neighbours in Zimbabwe are suffering real issues while you guys proclaim your disgust and expend your energies on a game based on zombies when you could be speaking or lobying your government to do something about that. Oh wait i forgot cause there is no oil there like there is in other countries and there is more money and politics in gaming cause it involves kids right!

[cliffbo]

tbh... i dont care what color their skin is. they try and eat me, they're going down ^^

:lol:

[Matt]

I love how pretty much everything I say in any thread is ignored. ¬_¬

[AC!D]

I love how pretty much everything I say in any thread is ignored. ¬_¬

Yeah sorry Matt im done on those issue :)
I just had to reply to that pathetic response he gave me.

[AC!D]

As someone who has not played any Resi games before Outbreak can anyone tell me if Resisdent Evil Umbrella Chronicles ( Yes i know its a Nintendo game im sorry ) threads the story of the past games up nicely for someone like me to play and get to grips with the story in time for Resi 5?

[curryking1]

Acid, you're being ridiculous.

You can't stop racism by simply claiming these factors do not affect anything simply because you don't want them to.

I've already made a point that simple 'Resident Evil 5' imagery can be shown to statistically affect the way people percieve things and it can actually compound prejudice, especially in those predisposed to it or who are already inclined to think that way.

And it doesn't help your argument since millions of people will in fact be playing this game for extended periods of time.

If people were more educated on general subject matter to genuinely know 'hating and killing black people' is wrong, that is how you fight racism. You fight racism using education.

But since educating people is sometimes really hard, you have to point out ***t for people too stupid to do find it out for themselves.

You don't fight racism by saying 'Oh it probably doesn't do anything.'

You need to stop being so defensive about videogames. Yes, they are 'mistreated' but not to the extent you are saying.

Movies don't simply get free passes. Do some research. You think theatres will show the random odd anti-semitic or anti-islamic or anti-christian movies just because they are films?

Movies actually do take a lot of consideration into making sure they don't pull bad cords with society. Especially on the issue of black and white racism in America. It's clear that no one was offended by Black Hawk Down because it's concept was clearly described and it was a geniune event.

The concept of a real event is easy to understand. As well as the concept of wars which actually happened. As well BHD had themes that even depicted that they were not enemies of black people (soldiers running in street with black children running parallel them and in front of them).

And you definitely don't want to magically assume no one on the board has experienced serious racism first hand. That's really stupid of you.

[Matt]

OK, seriously, let's stop this now.

Carry on the discussion somewhere else if you want.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Then Lali said If a game is considered art then we should all have a problem with Resi 5. So its ok to target the game industry suddenly cause its booming with money but give the movie industry a pass for movies like Black Hawk Down?



Way to completely miss my goddamn point, moron. Sorry but I can't stand someone twisting my words like that. Let me try and clarify for those of you that didn't excel at reading comprehension.

I DID NOT SAY IF YOU THINK GAMES CAN BE ART THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE A PROBLEM WITH RESIDENT EVIL 5. THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID, YOU IDIOT.

IF you believe that games can be an art form, and a form of artistic expression, then you must first understand that a piece of creative work is not completely art until it has an audience. Creative Expression - Audience = Not Art. The audience's consumption and reaction to a piece of work is the final and most integral piece of the artistic puzzle. If you are a creator of artistic expression, then you get everything that comes with it. We create art because it makes us happy to do so, and we willingly subject ourselves to the public opinion. Anyone who 'makes art for themselves' and doesn't show it to others is in denial, and is not a true artist. The purpose of art is to be seen/heard/felt/shared. THEREFORE you are subject to the critique, compliments, criticism and outcry of the public. When poets, experimenting with their art form in the 19 and early 20th century STARTED RIOTS with their works, the aficionados of poetry didn't bitch out and go, 'what's the big deal, it's just poetry.

Anyway. MY ORIGINAL POINT WAS: If you believe that games can be high art, then you can not hide behind the excuse or the shelter or the defense of, 'it's just a game'. Because you cannot in one instant say that games can be a medium capable of the dynamics of human emotion and expression etcetera in other art forms, and then reel back when games are put under scrutiny by people like you and me and say, it's just a game, thereby lowering games to primal, simplistic, forgettable entertainment. You're being a hypocrit.

I did not say if you think games can be art you should have a problem with RE5. I said if you think games are art, you cannot use the 'it's just a game' argument in its defense. I'm sorry to lay it all in your lap, but you're gonna have to do some critical thinking, and use a more cogent argument in support of the game in question, AND acknowledge that people have every right to react the way the do. Because that's what art does. It makes people react in profound ways. If Re5 managed to do that, you should be happy that our favorite medium of entertainment has reached such a level of visceral potency. The fact that it has drawn such attention is a victory. AC!D you completely missed the whole fucking point, man. God...I'm so livid with you right now.

Just because you don't get or understand their sentiment, does not make it any less valid. Least of all less valid than yours. You have to hear what people have to say, and think, really think about your response, your rebuttal to their arguments, instead of calling them crazy or stupid and being dismissive to such assertions. It's not a vacuous concern being brought up, and it occurred to me the first time I saw the RE5 trailer.


Edit: I read your entire post, not just the part where you're wrongfully jabbing me, and I gotta say, get off the 'somebody should do something about this!' soap box dude. 'We should band together and make a difference!' doesn't mean dick if you're not willing to take action yourself in whatever way you can. So don't try to use a pathos argument or directly attack individuals instead of countering their actual argument.

[cliffbo]

i'm pretty hyped for this game! we've only seen the villagers and i'm sure there will be some epic big boss battles

[cliffbo]

IF you believe that games can be an art form, and a form of artistic expression, then you must first understand that a piece of creative work is not completely art until it has an audience. Creative Expression - Audience = Not Art. The audience's consumption and reaction to a piece of work is the final and most integral piece of the artistic puzzle. If you are a creator of artistic expression, then you get everything that comes with it. We create art because it makes us happy to do so, and we willingly subject ourselves to the public opinion. Anyone who 'makes art for themselves' and doesn't show it to others is in denial, and is not a true artist. The purpose of art is to be seen/heard/felt/shared. THEREFORE you are subject to the critique, compliments, criticism and outcry of the public. When poets, experimenting with their art form in the 19 and early 20th century STARTED RIOTS with their works, the aficionados of poetry didn't bitch out and go, 'what's the big deal, it's just poetry.

well if the criteria for art is an audience, that has to favour the argument that games are art surely?! to me art is a creation that expresses the inner feelings of the artist, whether it is shown to the public or not. i've discussed this argument many times with many artists and still think it's a snobbish view. what it suggests is that if a great artist only paints one Monalisa and nothing else, that picture could stay in an attic for 100 years and would only be art when found. this argument is interesting because it puts art in the hands of the viewer and not the artist. 'i don't paint, but my eyes create art'

[Matt]

I love slamming my head against this brick wall.

I'm closing this thread for now. Go and discuss this somewhere else.

If anybody has any news they want to contribute that actually relates to the game, then I'll open it back up.