One of Garf's infamous rants: Why are computer science students so naive?

[Garfunkel]

OK, So I'm sitting in class today at uni, I'm a computer science student in my first year at one of Australia's top universities. This uni is supposed to pull in some of the best students from around the world to study. So here I am, sitting in my programming lab. I look down at the tutorial sheet and chuckle at the title: "Introduction to Linux and the command line". (No, before you start, this isn't going to be totally about Linux). I flick through the pages that I'm supposed to do in my two hour lab; a very simple affair. It simply walks you through how to do very simple command operations on files and directories; copying, deleting, making, moving etc. At the end you are to submit two small text fies with answers to really easy questions. I put the paper down, stretch and start typing.

2 minutes later I have done my work and am busy trying to work out why I can ping google.com through the command line but cannot access the net with Firefox. I am bored. I look around at some of the other kids in the class, most of which have perplexed faces and are seemingly in a state of utter desperation. Many are asking for help from the teacher and she is being literally ran off her feet with questions. Without feeling like an arrogant prick I ask if I can leave to eat my lunch because I finished so early.

Granted, I am probably a little more experienced then most of the students in that class, I have been using Linux for a few years now and have fallen in love with the command line. Yes, our relationship has been rocky at times when I come home and sometimes type the wrong command, but our marriage is a very strong one. I understand that some students may be a little slow at this so I don't take much note of the confusion the class seems to have.

I come back about an hour later after eating my lunch and wondering around the campus. The lab is basically in the same state as before. Most students have hardly past the first pages of command s they are supposed to type and the teacher appears to be getting frustrated at the lack of progress being made.

At this point I am dead inside. I am astounded that out of a class of 20 or so computer science students, I seem to be the only one with any experience what so ever of what I am doing. From day one we are taught that in computer science we will be using Linux to code because that is how the industry is. As computer scientists we must understand the command line. We must program for the command line and must interpret it. I have no idea why people are taking computer science if they don't fully understand what it is about. We program in C++, we use the command line and yet nobody seems to have a clue what we are actually meant to do. I overheard one student say that the command line is "stupid and slow". Even worse I heard a conversation with the teacher take place in which the teacher said that in our final exam we will have to write a 'few' lines of c++ code. The student said, and I quote; "what? we actually have to code it by hand?". To me it just amazes me that people get it this wrong. WHY THE FUCK ARE PEOPLE TAKING COMPUTER SCIENCE AT UNI IF THEY THINK THAT PROGRAMMING != ACTUALLY WRITING FUCKING CODE. A bash command line is a programming language in itself and I came into this course thinking that at least 10 or so percent of people would know a simple command like 'pwd' or 'ls'. Instead out I find NOBODY in an entire lab class who has ever used Linux before in their lives and would never touch a command line with a ten meter poll. WHY THE FUCK DO THESE FUCKING IDIOTS DO THE FUCKING BLOODY FUCKING COURSE???????? I have met hundreds of people randomly around the street and on the internet who not only use Linux but also use the command line. And this is a general, non-technical field. If people who are supposedly going to be experts in IT have never even heard of the term "command line" or "Linux" I think it speaks volumes about how poorly high schools teach those who undertake computer studies.

One thing that I am thankful for is that our professors are forcing everyone to install Linux on their computers at home. If we compile applications that we write for assignments and they do not run or compile under Linux we get huge mark reductions. At least that will force a bit of sense into these 'computer scientists' WHO HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT HOW THE INDUSTRY IS MOVING.

I am going to a little get together the uni has set up over next weekend organized by a local Linux user's group. They are going to be showing people what Linux is, why they are using it and will help people install it on their laptops. I am going to hand out free ubuntu cd's at the event. I am not going to get anything out of the event but it will be interesting to see more of the incredible naivety I have seen in my degree thus far.

So yep, I said this wasn't about Linux - and it seems like it is doesn't it? Not in the slightest. This is not just concerning Linux in computer science, but also programming concepts and computers in general. FUCKING HELL PEOPLE ARE STUPID IF THEY ENROLL IN A COMPUTER SCIENCE COURSE AND DON'T EXPECT TO BE LEARNING HOW TO ACTUALLY WRITE PROGRAMS.

:rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant:

I am tired, good night all.

[kaphwan]

I can remember that feeling of being surrounded by people who had done no prior research into the course they were taking and obviously had no idea.

"Oh, I started psychology so I could help people like OPRAH. I don't care much for all this talk about science and stuff I just want to HELP PEOPLE"

*cringe*

[Coded-Dude]

lol @ mouse jockeys


You'd think at least some of them have seen/used DOS as well.
Also, not everybody uses vi/emacs for programming in the industry.
Many use things like Visual Slick Edit(VSE) or gVim.

[Garfunkel]

lol @ mouse jockeys


You'd think at least some of them have seen/used DOS as well.
Also, not everybody uses vi/emacs for programming in the industry.
Many use things like Visual Slick Edit(VSE) or gVim.

We are using stupid ass nedit for programming while I'm using gedit. (Have no idea why they think gedit is any worse, ewww it's easier! that must mean it's worse!)

[GTAce]

Great thread.
I dont use Linux and i am completly useless for stuff like this but i can imagine how you feel.

[Zeep]

i know how it feels. i'm in my first year of studying comp sci and we're just learning basic java, and although i wouldn't say i had any significant programming experience before this, it's frustrating to see people who can't even understand the structure of a basic if/then or while statement.

[Zer0-Sum]

Garf, I has a similar issue when I was at art school. While our respective areas of study are different, the situation was the same. Fellow students had come to an art school but had never really done "art" like painting, drawing, ect. They came to art school expecting that it would make them an artist. They did not know shit about color theory, figure drawing, and the like at all. So I figure this is not an uncommon situation in colleges around the world.

Anyways, I figure you can just look at the rest of the people in your classes and laugh at them(privately of course). They are effectively your competition. Take heart in the fact that your know that much more than them. So kick ass, take names man and leave them all in your dust.

[Coded-Dude]

you should offer tutoring for a small fee.........

[Zer0-Sum]

you should offer tutoring for a small fee.........

That is a GREAT idea. Seriously. Make them pay for your help.

[iSDK]

That is a GREAT idea. Seriously. Make them pay for your help.

i 2nd this idea.

[Zeep]

Then when they show up, just insult them for an hour.

[JasonXe]

i never used linux but i know the basics of C++. Its not that hard and wish I can get a degree that easy. The only reason why i want to drop out of cs is b/c im not good in math.

[Unspoken]

i know how it feels. i'm in my first year of studying comp sci and we're just learning basic java, and although i wouldn't say i had any significant programming experience before this, it's frustrating to see people who can't even understand the structure of a basic if/then or while statement.

I don't think I can ever look back to Java after the horrifying experiences in the classroom with other students I've had.

Like, my sophomore year, I took a VB.NET class and a basic Java class. I excelled in both and had almost top marks. However, nobody else (except one or two people) could really program.

I'm not that strict on Java people, seeing as how it's all just straight coding, but COME FUCKING ON! The acronym "VB" is quite interesting, especially since it's "VISUAL Basic." You don't even want to know the number of times I had to go explain exactly how to put a text box on a GUI. :rant:

Still, Java was pretty bad. Only one other kid knew what was going on in that class, and we pretty much just went around and told others what to do. The class was cut short after the first quarter and was replaced with what seemed the be web design.

Then I go to Advanced Programming, in which the class votes to do Java (I wanted to do JSharp or C++). So I fly through the first few chapters, and I look at people getting caught up on obviously easy stuff. This time, though, I'm with other classmates I knew from VB.NET, who should have been able to figure it out. I was frustrated.

So yeah, needless to say, all but two people dropped Advanced Programming. I dropped because of the said facts and also the system the teacher switched to was extremely homosexual (start businesses, make money, money determines grades, etc.).

I agree with you, Garf. If people want to go into a field that requires programming, why do they expect that there won't be any programming in the class you're taking?! *pulls hair out*

[WolfmanNCSU]

My first two years in comp sci was very similar. It was not until my Junior year before these people are weeded out and you will finally have classmates that have a clue. A few will still find their way (copy programs, have good group members, etc). At least for now you will get a kick out of rocking out a project in about two hours in a lab while others are panicking through out the night.

You will also enjoy when we you have to create/give presentations in front of the class to present your projects etc. I got a even bigger kick watching these students struggle to speak in front of groups.

[Garfunkel]

you should offer tutoring for a small fee.........

HAHHA LOL. I wish i could but i'm not really much of a programmer yet either. I am also shockingly bad at math.

But at least when I go into programming class I understand that I will be programming. And that is the direction I want to go in (not precisely programming but something along those lines.)