The PS3's glory days ? - um when ? [Archive]

CARTIER90

05-26-2008, 01:02 PM

Segitz

05-26-2008, 01:18 PM

Lo and behold the reality is a little different - no one PS3 game yet has really been not capable of running on the 360 . There are a few exceptions - MGS4 and GT5, though they surely WOULD be able to run if the 360 had BD.

Is there anything in my argument ?, are the 2 systems basicallly the same in terms of capability ?. If the CELL is so allmighty, why cant we have Crysis ?...What took the allmighty piss, is that GTA4 has been proven by Eurogamer to run at fewer frames per second and at lower res than the 360 !

Hmm...

Crysis cannot run on any console... not because of the CPU, but they have MUCH too little RAM (my 2GB machine struggled) and because the GPUs are too limited too (Crysis on Full runs only chug free when usinga GPU that costs about as much as a complete PS3)

GTA4 is a different story, but I believe, it has more to do with some perks of the PS3. Since I am no programmer, I cannot really go into specifics. But the difference of the PS3 and 360 in GTA4 are REALLY negligible. The framerate differs by maybe 10% to 15%, which is by no means much, and the lower resolution is set off by the excessive motion blur on both systems.

CARTIER90

05-26-2008, 01:30 PM

Well i spose there would be some limitations, its just that I sort of suspected we would be getting games on the PS3 that were head and shoulders above the 360.

05-26-2008, 01:45 PM

The PS3's glory days ? - um when ?
um, now.

Passive

05-26-2008, 01:48 PM

Crysis cant run on consoles because the engine itself is very poorly implemented.

Looks at the early ps2 games :P not that jaw dropping give the console some time. Look at killzone 2 the 360 wouldnt be able to run that without causing some serious global warming issues.

as for glory days.

what does the 360 have coming out? GoW2.

ps3? MGS4, GT5, FFXIII, FFvXIII, LBP, R2, KZ2.

Segitz

05-26-2008, 03:17 PM

Crysis cant run on consoles because the engine itself is very poorly implemented.

what does the 360 have coming out? GoW2.

ps3? MGS4, GT5, FFXIII, FFvXIII, LBP, R2, KZ2.

Yeah, the engine of Crysis has serious flaws, especially with its memory management system (I dare to say, it leaks like a faucet, that doesn't have a valve).

And the second part is a bit "unfair" to say the least... There are some "nice" games coming to the 360 too... although, I have to think more to come up with the right answers...

360 will get Ninja Gaiden 2 (which just got rated a 7 at EG, just like DMC4... because of SERIOUS fairness and technical problems) for example, for those who like it. Banjo might be a good game too. Alan Wake spiked my interest too, when it was announced (not so much anymore since it became 360 exclusive... Here's hoping for a PC version)

And some of the PS3 games are unknown qualities... I am still on the fence for LBP and KZ2. KZ2, because until now, it just is a good looking shooter (and you saw, what Haze did...), nothing more. And LBP needs to have a nice single player, because not everybody can be bothered to build their own ones. The rest is known quality and will rock :D I will surely buy all of them^^

05-26-2008, 04:14 PM

PS3 suffers a slow start for multiple of reasons. but ALL those reasons have been resolved for a while now. we see 3rd party supporitng PS3 just fine.

if you are waiting for those amazing technical games to show off your console, then it will be exaclty the same as it has been with every PS (and general) system launching: you'll get a good taste within it's first year, then the offerings will start showing after that. a year after PS2 launched, we got MGS2, FF10, Ace Combat and GT3 showing us the true power of PS2 and what lied ahead. I don't have to tell you what appeared after that on the system.
a year after PS3 released, we say R&C, Uncharted and GT5P showing us the true power of PS3 and what lied ahead. I don't have to tell you what appeared after that on the system.

as for the 'what's possible on what' talk, I don't give a shit since 'amazing' is 'amazing' regardless of what is it on. Crysis and Far Cry are amazing. Uncharted and GT5P are amazing. GoW2 is amazing. they all deserve a salute to the devs and to the power of the systems running them.
having said that, I still think PS3 can do more than any other console for various reasons. but no discussion is needed for that as time will be the only shower. in the meantime, enjoy dropping your jaw. as for me, I am dropping my jaw for PS3 more so than other platforms.

Passive

05-26-2008, 04:14 PM

good points, all. :P i just wanted to bash a little becuase this thread came off as a ps3 isnt very good thread. and i hate those -.- alot.

Applefiend

05-26-2008, 04:19 PM

Well personally I think the PS3/360 power difference is a mute point for me. Whatever difference is probably either negligible or difficult to quantify. A title like COD4 is a good example of the PS3/360 power difference I guess, two good dev teams on the same title, get the magnifying glass out for that one.

I don't think disappointment is the right word for my feelings towards PS3, I think the machine has turned out different from what I thought it would.

PS2 for me was, and still is, the best console ever built, and the near perfect PS2/PS1 compatibility of my launch PS3 was the perfect beginning for the next Playstation. PS2 was a house held up by a number of pillars. Square, Naughty Dog, Kojima Productions, Insomniac, Polyphony, Capcom, Sucker Punch,Namco, Rockstar and a few others. As a games machine it was unsurpassed. As a home entertainment system it blew. Rubbish component DVD output, didn't play DIVX, no use as an MP3 jukebox, useless.

When PS3 came out I thought this is it, for at least the next seven years my favorite dev teams on the most powerful system. Console heaven.

We're 18 months in and some of the dream PS2 team are definitely missing in action. Namco have done a couple of titles, RR7 and T5, but nothing major. Square have been almost completely invisible as far as producing real content goes. Not even a steady stream of FF13 trailers. Polyphony had GT3 out on PS2 at this point, they've only brought out a demo. There's been no Sony own brand RPGs to speak of(Don't think Folklore counts), Capcom seem to have pretty much defected to the other side, Rockstar who were very strong in the early days of PS2 haven't done anything exclusive for PS3, Team Ico have been almost completely silent, there's no exclusive Dragon Quest 9 for PS3 on the way. There's a certain feeling of let down on PS3 being an exact next gen version of PS2. The dream PS2 team doesn't seem to be firing on all cylinders.

And not to mention nothing has happened involving MMORPGs, and area with free online, massive BD storage and easily upgradable HDD PS3 should excel at. Even 360 has two, FF11 and PSO, PS3? Nothing.

The good news is some of the old gang, Insomniac, Naughty Dog and Kojima Productions are very much still on form, and there's new stars rising. Evolution Studios for one.

What none of us foresaw in all those psinext chats is how PS3 would be strong where PS2 was weak. Who would have thought 18 months on PS3 would be the best Blu Ray player to own? Who would have thought how strong it would be as a media hub, with DIVX, WMV, streaming, remote play and the rest. It's a great performer in your living room, goes very nicely with a 1080p TV and a 5(7).1 sound system.

And there's still hope for a PS2 on steroids. I keep waiting for Team Ico to resurface. Sucker Punch might pull off greatness with Infamous. Square may reappear in 2009 perhaps. Which one of us would have thought when they showed that FF7 demo at E3 2005 they would disappear without a trace for 4 years?

Maybe not. Maybe just as Super Nintendo was the pinnacle for 2D gaming, maybe PS2 was the apex of single player gaming. It'll all be online from now on, with the single player part only for training. I hope not. There needs to be room for cinematic games with stories to tell, let's hope MGS4 will show the start of the PS3 difference.

OmniCloud

05-26-2008, 04:24 PM

Nice read apple...

It's a waiting game, but there's hope. Still a lot of announced games that went under the radar.

Rockstar making a PS3 exclusive?
SOE working on 2 PS3 exclusives?
Team ICo
Return of Jak, Uncharted sequel
FF13 and Versus
White knight Story--the people who made Dark Cloud:drool:
Sucker Punch with Infamous
The Getaway
Killzone in 09
LBP could be the next best things since sliced bread
GT5
God of War
etc...

How many of these will turn out to be big things, or even actual titles I dunno? But just because the sequels or games we were familiar with aren't popping up exclusively on PS3 doesn't mean it won't have a PS2 moment. It'll just be with different content.

DMC4/VF5/GTA4 before this gen would have all been thought of as exclusives. But there maybe games that fill that void and even conquers it?

GTAce

05-26-2008, 04:31 PM

Apple you pwnsome motherfu****, nice to read a new great post from you buddy!

Applefiend

05-26-2008, 04:31 PM

OmniCloud

05-26-2008, 04:40 PM

Yeah, I think the shorter version is all the guys who were very fast off the mark in the early days of PS2 with killer titles (Namco with RR5 and TTT, Rockstar with Smuggler's Run, Square's early wacky efforts(The Bouncer, etc), Capcom with Onimusha, EA with SSX, have been virtually silent. I think that's the main difference with PS2.

Ho hum...Yeah, and all I hear is what announcements about future projects! lol...Didn't Sony/Namco form a studio together or something? Why is Tekken 6 the only thing that's been announced so far:huh:

But like I said, it may not be familiar titles that boost PS3 back to the spotlight, but new original ones.

I think Wii is a testament to that. Yeah, you still got million sellers like Halo/Gta4/Gears/COD4, but nothing is selling like Brain Age or Wii sports/play??!?!

I think it's a shift where people want something new/different/fresh to play. I think this is where PS3 excels at--even though it's taking them forever. You'll get the Socom (not to mention a full-sequel in Socom4) and the God of War. But you'll get something different/new in the Little Big Planet/Home/Singstar.

Then you get the PSN, where it's not just mini-games, but fresh ideas like Pixel or CaC! I'm still waiting to see those games boxed up and put onto a disc.

lol, oh yeah 360's timing screwed Sony big time...But at least it wasn't like PS2 with Xbox/GC. Sony's still in the race

Bliss

05-26-2008, 05:00 PM

I watched the E3 conference back in 05 ( or was it 06 ) when Ken stood there with his powerpoint presentation - charts - FLOPS - 'amazing' motion controlled DS controller and was excited for the future of gaming.

The more powerful X Box was going to be knocked into a cocked hat - particularly as the big bar representing the FLOPS of the PS3 was bigger than the X BOX 360 - ahem, thats how technically minded I am :)

Lo and behold the reality is a little different - no one PS3 game yet has really been not capable of running on the 360 . There are a few exceptions - MGS4 and GT5, though they surely WOULD be able to run if the 360 had BD.

Is there anything in my argument ?, are the 2 systems basicallly the same in terms of capability ?. If the CELL is so allmighty, why cant we have Crysis ?...What took the allmighty piss, is that GTA4 has been proven by Eurogamer to run at fewer frames per second and at lower res than the 360 !.

I just feel a little duped so far at my £425 spent.

well, you are a bit late in writing this thread, as a 1st gen game like Uncharted is already looking better than anything on XBox360, which is already showing 3rd generation games...
...and from what I know games like Killzone2, MGS4, GT5, FFXIII are not possible on the MS console. And you have still to see what ICO developers are doing with PS3 ;) .
Just remember that GREAT games are not "self-programmed", and they need time to be released...and remember that PS3 was released 1 year later.

About GTA4 ? PS3 version is performing better than XBox360, with less evident slow-down in frame-rate and FAR LESS POP-IN ISSUE, which is also effecting game-play in some cases! and most professional reviewer already stated that the graphics edge goes to PS3!
IMO PS3 is already showing more TECH than XBox360, and I'm sorry for the ones who cannot see or accept it! (caught! Killzone2. caught!)

Viper

05-26-2008, 05:48 PM

I think if you really looked beyond the PR talk, you'd have seen the two systems would be similar technically. The PS3 may "end up" showing its tech superiority later in the console cycle but it was certainly not something that was going to happen right out of the gate.

I don't think you should feel duped for buying a PS3 though. It's been my experience that people don't buy a PS3 because they expected it to be 5% stronger than the X360 but because of the games.

The games are what you pay the entry fee for.

JasonXe

05-26-2008, 06:42 PM

If the developers put the time in it then any game can look good so to speak. Lots of good games are coming out for the ps3. If i had one, i would buy mgs4, then wait for lbp. I'll think then i'll wait for ff13.

Diresu

05-26-2008, 06:42 PM

CARTIER90

05-26-2008, 07:23 PM

I dont see the correlation between last and this gen. The hype surrounding the PS3 led me to believe that it was significantly more powerful than the 360 - at least powerful enough for it to show after a year into into its lifecycle.

Now sure, some of you have pointed out worthy examples of exclusives that WILL show such power. I just hoped that more would have been out by now. But hey...after MGS4/GT/Getaway/LA Noire I might have no such issues.

masteratt

05-26-2008, 07:25 PM

Excellent thread, me and a friend were talking about how lacking the PS3 was and still is and I agree with most posts here.

I think it's just taking a LOOOOOOOOONG time due to next-gen stuff, it's not only PS3 that's lacking, it's the next-gen so it's the developers that couldn't keep up or maybe got confused by the tech, they basically just took what was going on in last-gen and upgraded it (even GTA did that).

Devs are really lacking innovation this gen and everything feels uninspired.

Am I happy with the PS3 purchase?
Yes....Just.

Also I heard mention of Rockstar and since I know Rockstar, I'll fill you in: They have THREE exclusive brand new IPs coming for PS3.
One of them is rumoured to be that L.A. Noire game they showed a 3 second or something trailer of.
Rockstar 'promised' to use Blu-Ray and the Cell to it's full capacity in those exclusive games and they sounded excited, we shall see.

It will all pick up, it's just taking much longer than usual (or maybe the normal amount? since i wasn't here for the beginning of the PS2 days).

Viper

05-26-2008, 07:33 PM

Masteratt, LA Noire had a much longer trailer than 3 seconds (2.5 minutes) and it's also coming to X360 now (Sony stopped funding it) though PS3 is still lead platform.

masteratt

05-26-2008, 07:36 PM

Yeah I always exaggerate for the lulz, it wasn't a very useful trailer basically was my point :p
And yes, now I remember Sony dropped it and Rockstar picked it up but I don't remember it going multi-platform.

Well either way, we have 3 (now 2?) Rockstar PS3 exclusive, that new Ico/ Shadow Of The Colossus and a few gems Sony will make themselves I'm sure but that's the problem, why are we relying on last gen's gems for this gen?

MAKE SOME NEW GEMS!
Inspiration seems to be at 0% across all devs at the moment :(

CARTIER90

05-26-2008, 08:04 PM

well at least someone 'gets' the gist of my point. Trust me , I am a Sony fan through and through, have no issue with the 360, I just like a little differentiation between the consoles. Which i suppose will eventually show through with exclusives.

What led me to start this thread was my experiences of playing over at friends houses with their 360 ( COD and GT in particular) now playing two non-exclusive games a lot doesnt help I guess in deciphering the differences between the consoles.

Use of Euphoria in GTA4 is encouraging, but then I dont want there to be tech in games that push the consoles to far as to effect framerates - as in GTA. Where are the shooters that make use of windage, bullet drop etc...or have I just been playing flashpoint to much ? speaking of which, flashpoint 2 is to be out on the PS3 - again, my rant may well be silenced if this particular game fulfils expectations.

I would love to see games that are really next gen in terms of making making SPECIFIC use of BD. Surely this massive leap in disc capacity is not only to be used for bloody HD movies !. Is it the time taken to create the content ?, are there not projects from years back that had been temporarily shelved with devs saying ' if only we had more room ' :) ?

Please dont point to HOME and LBP....I want proper fucking games that make me think that I payed a premium price for something ......

Viper

05-26-2008, 08:10 PM

well at least someone 'gets' the gist of my point. Trust me , I am a Sony fan through and through, have no issue with the 360, I just like a little differentiation between the consoles. Which i suppose will eventually show through with exclusives.

What led me to start this thread was my experiences of playing over at friends houses with their 360 ( COD and GT in particular) now playing two non-exclusive games a lot doesnt help I guess in deciphering the differences between the consoles.

I would love to see games that are really next gen in terms of making making SPECIFIC use of BD. Surely this massive leap in disc capacity is not only to be used for bloody HD movies !. Is it the time taken to create the content ?, are there not projects from years back that had been temporarily shelved with devs saying ' if only we had more room ' :) ?

Please dont point to HOME and LBP....I want proper fucking games that make me think that I payed a premium price for something ......
I think you're putting way too much emphasis on disc space.

Look at PS vs N64 for what I mean.
PS - 650 MB per disc (some games has up to 4 discs)
N64 - 32 MB with no multi cart options (1 game [RE2] was a 64 MB cart...on PS it was 2 discs)

While developers would love more space (even Kojima said a BD50 wasn't enough), it's almost never an issue to the point of actually shelving a project. Good compression schemes have really made disc space a minor matter.

CARTIER90

05-26-2008, 08:13 PM

dnpmakkah

05-26-2008, 08:14 PM

Not sure when we will see the PS3's glory days or if it will even have one but at least we've passed its dark days...you know...the days when we didn't have anything to play so we got excited for Folding @ Home (makes me shutter just thinking about it) :)

CARTIER90

05-26-2008, 08:16 PM

masteratt

05-26-2008, 08:17 PM

I made this when PS3 launched and I can't believe it still applies:

Sony's honest ad campaign
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee248/masteratt/thplaystation_3_ad.jpg

Viper

05-26-2008, 08:26 PM

Was there ever a racer on the N64 like GT ?, there simply was not the room ... Phil Harrison said of the getaway demo that the onscreen 'fidelity' would not be possible without BD. Although this may be horseshit ??....

If you mean total number of cars, no. But that had as much to do with how expensive it is to license out that many cars as it did disc space.

But my point was a game like RE2 which took up 2 discs (~1.2GB) was squished onto a 64 MB cartridge. That's a size difference of 18.75:1. The size difference between X360 discs and a BD50 is only 5.8:1.

Audio and texture compression schemes today all but nullify it. I'm not saying BD is bad just that it's capacity is not as big of an issue as was originally made out to be.

Here's a question. How many X360 games require 2 discs? Until this becomes a commonality, disc space isn't a real issue.

dnpmakkah

05-26-2008, 08:26 PM

well I mean the period of time that the PS3 has a lineup that the only other competitor - the 360 , could not compete with. Due directly to that console not being able to compete powerwise. This to me would be Sony fulfilling their mission statement - which E3 05 effectively was.Honestly that is not going to happen because the two systems are very similiar in ability. It will be up to the developers to make drool worthy games.

Hisham

05-26-2008, 08:49 PM

I made this when PS3 launched and I can't believe it still applies:

Sony's honest ad campaign
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee248/masteratt/thplaystation_3_ad.jpg

I seriously believe if you are looking for the PS3 to be explosive and win out the whole market like the PS2, then that pic will apply for the PS3's whole life time. I seriously doubt it will capture the success of the PS2....

CARTIER90

05-26-2008, 08:50 PM

I know , I spose a lot of my posts ( which tend to be vague in nature ) are as much airing my views as getting peace of mind over the future of the console.

Gegenki

05-26-2008, 09:37 PM

But my point was a game like RE2 which took up 2 discs (~1.2GB) was squished onto a 64 MB cartridge. That's a size difference of 18.75:1. The size difference between X360 discs and a BD50 is only 5.8:1.

Its a bit of a moot point imo.
Because we could take a raw game and compress it to fit a DVD9.
Or we could take a bigger raw game, compress it to fit 5.8 DVD9's at the same level and put it on a blu-ray.
And then you have the problem - that you really cant get it on a DVD9. Unless you find a better way to compress it. And supposing you find that? You just have a way to get more things onto blu-ray.

But that said I suppose the 360 probably has some decent hardware decompression whereas the PS3 probably does not.

julps31

05-26-2008, 09:45 PM

I watched the E3 conference back in 05 ( or was it 06 ) when Ken stood there with his powerpoint presentation - charts - FLOPS - 'amazing' motion controlled DS controller and was excited for the future of gaming.

The more powerful X Box was going to be knocked into a cocked hat - particularly as the big bar representing the FLOPS of the PS3 was bigger than the X BOX 360 - ahem, thats how technically minded I am :)

Lo and behold the reality is a little different - no one PS3 game yet has really been not capable of running on the 360 . There are a few exceptions - MGS4 and GT5, though they surely WOULD be able to run if the 360 had BD.

Is there anything in my argument ?, are the 2 systems basicallly the same in terms of capability ?. If the CELL is so allmighty, why cant we have Crysis ?...What took the allmighty piss, is that GTA4 has been proven by Eurogamer to run at fewer frames per second and at lower res than the 360 !.

I just feel a little duped so far at my £425 spent.How dare you leave Killzone off that list. :troutslap: j/k...

But seriosly...when it comes down to it. Its about the games. Not about if it could or couldn't run on the 360. Maybe Killzone COULD run on the 360 (maybe it couldn't)..but the fact is its not. And its an experience that you can only get on the PS3. Same with games like Uncharted, GT5, Ratchet and Clank, LPB, MGS5, Resistance, MotorStorm, White Knight Chronicles, and Warhawk. And I feel you'd be hard pressed to come up with a list like this on the 360..^

I feel your looking at it from the stand point of technology rather then actual games. And when all is said and done....its about the games. And the PS3 has a lineup second to none imo.

JasonXe

05-26-2008, 10:12 PM

How dare you leave Killzone off that list. :troutslap: j/k...

But seriosly...when it comes down to it. Its about the games. Not about if it could or couldn't run on the 360. Maybe Killzone COULD run on the 360 (maybe it couldn't)..but the fact is its not. And its an experience that you can only get on the PS3. Same with games like Uncharted, GT5, Ratchet and Clank, LPB, MGS5, Resistance, MotorStorm, White Knight Chronicles, and Warhawk. And I feel you'd be hard pressed to come up with a list like this on the 360..^

I feel your looking at it from the stand point of technology rather then actual games. And when all is said and done....its about the games. And the PS3 has a lineup second to none imo.

Matter of opinion with those games though. On the other side of the spectrum, i would want lbp and mgs. I would like to see ff13 gameplay footage and take a look at wkc. Atm im tried of fps and want something different - hence lbp and mgs. On the 360 side, i don't think your looking hard enough and just looking at 08 lineup and not its entire libary.

Sephiroth_VII

05-26-2008, 10:48 PM

We have FF XIII gameplay footage. It's old, and there isn't much ,but it is there. I don't get why people keep saying they haven't released any...

05-26-2008, 11:00 PM

I would love to see games that are really next gen in terms of making making SPECIFIC use of BD. Surely this massive leap in disc capacity is not only to be used for bloody HD movies !
how about bloody HD games? what else could the extra space be used if not for HD sound and video? you know, adding more characters, cars, etc. to a game doesn't really take that much more space. that and it is unreasonable to expcet new games to have 5 times the amount of playable data than the previous generation while at the same time have that 'next generation' quality. it's just not financially and timely feasible.

as for power, PS360 release about a year between each other. that isn't a lot in console development time. PS3 was delayed for BD and could've been released earlier. both PS360 aren't bad at all. they are great consoles with a lot of power to offer. look at any consoles releasing that close to each other and you won't see a clear difference. the most recent example is Xbox and Cube.

so unless a console launches around 2 or more years after the previous one, don't expect much difference. of course, this doesn't take into account systems that weren't designed for tech power (Wii & DS).

Segitz

05-26-2008, 11:32 PM

I think you're putting way too much emphasis on disc space.

Look at PS vs N64 for what I mean.
PS - 650 MB per disc (some games has up to 4 discs)
N64 - 32 MB with no multi cart options (1 game [RE2] was a 64 MB cart...on PS it was 2 discs)

While developers would love more space (even Kojima said a BD50 wasn't enough), it's almost never an issue to the point of actually shelving a project. Good compression schemes have really made disc space a minor matter.

But my point was a game like RE2 which took up 2 discs (~1.2GB) was squished onto a 64 MB cartridge. That's a size difference of 18.75:1. The size difference between X360 discs and a BD50 is only 5.8:1.

Audio and texture compression schemes today all but nullify it. I'm not saying BD is bad just that it's capacity is not as big of an issue as was originally made out to be.

Here's a question. How many X360 games require 2 discs? Until this becomes a commonality, disc space isn't a real issue.

In sort of a defense of the PSX version of RE2, I throw in the PC version (also 2 disc, but analyzable^^).

The game itself isn't big at all. Most of the storage used is video and audio, both of which are highly compressible. The PSXs MDEC (video codec) was VERY wasteful at very low quality (but not noticably bad on SDTVs). Since the developer who ported the game was forced from day one to drive around these issues, they knew, what they were in for. (I just see... this game was ported by "Angel Studios"... today known as... wait for it... Rockstar San Diego^^). The videos on the N64 version were even lower end than on the PSX^^ (no wonder).

How many games need two discs? Not many... How many PSX games needed two discs? Again, the same answer... But many devs cut out stuff, because they are space constrained... and that can theoretically be only 1MB. Knowing you have tons of space lets developers do stuff they would not consider if they where restrained.

Thing is, looking at some bittorrent trackers, I see that more than enough 360 games scratch the boundaries of a full disc. And I think, those games would be bigger, with the same dev time and budget, if they were on a bigger disc... Simply because they had the space to begin with. And, being a VERY videophile guy, many FMVs on 360 games are bandwidth starved and get makroblocking etc... which kills the whole experience. Other games on the other hand use VOs over and over and over again (Oblivion... sadly, the PC version is no different, although it isn't even dual layered)., which pisses me off too.

Usually, PS3 games are bigger than 360 games, even if they are the same game. GTA4 on the PS3 is 12GB, while the 360 version is ~7.5GB (maximum for 360 games). The added data goes into the TV screens in your safehouse, but where the rest is used, I cannot tell. Redundant data for faster streaming would be idiotic, as the game streams nigh on exclusively from the HDD (the clothes are loaded from the disc though, which makes shopping for clothes and changing them VERY tedious).

Seeing that many games, in the PS2/Xbox era already scratched the dual layer limit (or 2 discs and more), and the PS3 and 360 have 16 (or 8) times as much RAM, having more space on the medium that delivers us the games would be the logical conclusion.

TimmyJ

05-27-2008, 12:19 AM

It's all well and good saying that very few X360 games ship on more than one DVD-9 but given the huge increase in budgets why would any publisher want to increase the per unit cost of each game by doing this? It's a risk, one that can be negated by either removing content or further compressing pre-existing content.

When it comes to the PS3 this just isn't really an issue to publishers and, by extension, developers.

Ultimately I don't think Blu-Ray holds much of an advantage from a technical viewpoint for any games other than those that fall within the sandbox genre, but I do think that it holds the potential to make the PS3 version of a multi-plat game the more appealing one.

LaLiLuLeLo

05-27-2008, 01:37 AM

The only real advantage of blu-ray, storage space is, developers don't have to cut corners, or in Kojima's case, as many corners.

jaxmkii

05-27-2008, 04:01 AM

simple ansewer: 360 is why so many PS3 games lack.

CreativeWriter

05-27-2008, 06:30 AM

I think it's useful to look at things from Sony's POV circa 2007. I'm sure those guys thought games like Lair (Rogue Squadron with dragons!) and Heavenly Sword (Goddess of War!) were going to be massive, AAA hits that would spawn sequels. All you have to do is look at the production values in HS and Lair, the video diaries, the bonus features, to see what the Sony folks thought of them. Who would think that these massively hyped games would earn poor reviews, that a little heralded sequel to System Shock 2 would become a run-away hit for 360, that Epic, who had made three or four disappointing UT2k games in a row, would create a new IP for Microsoft in Gears that would be a game of the year contender, convincing many hardcores to choose the 360 early? All the analysts thought Sony would win the console war, thought the Wii had a silly name, thought that MS's Halo franchise wouldn't outperform Sony's well-rounded lineup...

When you think about how the PS3's launch and first year should have been from Sony's perspective, the "PS3 has no games" label wouldn't have applied. Looking back on it, Sony should have moved God of War 2 to the PS3, should have had Square on-board with a launch game (FFXII international+HD edition or something similar), should have shifted resources away from Untold Legends, Ridge Racer 6, etc, should have been more aggressive keeping GTA, DMC4, DQ9, MH3 exclusivity... It's clear, in hindsight, that things were more dire than they first appeared, launching a year late, having a high price-point, being second-movers to motion-controls...

The bad news, to answer the OP's prompt, is that the PS3 isn't going to be the all singing, all dancing system we hoped it would be in 2005. RAM limitations seem to be the bottleneck so far. The good news is that it still has time to justify our purchases with excellent games, to become more competitive in Japan and North America, perhaps even catching the 360 WW by default (if MS launches early again, which I would expect them to do if things started to turn against them). The system still has a crazy-high ceiling in terms of graphical performance, and we'll be getting some great games in 08, 09, 10. It just means lowering your expectations a little. There's a long way to go yet and some reason to be optimistic, assuming we stop considering unit sales a metric for justifying our purchases. IMO, at least, that ship has sailed.

Viper

05-27-2008, 06:31 AM

But adding a few more cars, another level or two, etc...isn't really making it "next gen". That's just more "current gen" than it already is.

The differentiation between X360 and PS3 (AT THIS TIME) is not as grand as the hype generated prior to launch but this should have been anticipated to some degree because PR speak is always PR speak.

Somehow, I don't think what Kaz, Phil, Reeves and KK meant back in mid 2006 was just an extra level or two over X360.

JasonXe

05-27-2008, 07:28 AM

I don't think no one console will win overwhelmly this time around. Just to much parody between each console that it would ultimately look as a draw at the end of each console cycle.

LaLiLuLeLo

05-27-2008, 07:35 AM

parity. not parody :P

Applefiend

05-27-2008, 08:45 AM

Yup, PS3 has taken some hits (and it really is all about the exclusives). Factor 5, Free Radical and Ninja Theory have all produced hyped games that didn't quite deliver. It makes you wonder if the new hyped games (Killzone 2, Resistance 2, LBP) will deliver too. I think they will, but it's worrying init.

For me the next gen novelty was well worn off, and these consoles have got to deliver, and not deliver stuff I could get on PC either. I'll be glad when this FPS on console fad wears off and we get to the real Playstation games. I'll be glad when Sony stop trying to out 360 360 and we get Shadow of the Colossus, God of War, FF13 and the rest.

But you know, got my 1080p Bravia X Series today, you plug that PS3 sucker into a 1080p TV you'll have no doubts about the power of PS3, only system worthy of powering that monster.

section

05-27-2008, 08:46 AM

Lesson number one: don't raise the expectation bar so high you will start reaching it only five years into the product's life cycle

Lesson number two: don't show products in 2005 you will launch in 2009 or 2010.

Lesson number three: don't mix up the awesomeness of Cell processor and all the multimedia capabilities of your machine with the reality of giving the developers and multimedia creators the freedom to up the ante little by little.

Lesson number four: release that friggin' Home already...

CARTIER90

05-27-2008, 09:45 AM

For me a 'next gen' - or perhaps now we should say current gen game requires ...

1) HDR lighting - ray tra...ok too ambitious ;)

2) Physics - as in real time - 'everything is unique' Euphoria..

3) Gameplay mechanics that simply havent been done before..
Take a look at Mirrors edge - great seeing ones own charachter
grapple for ledges - have we had another game like this ?

^^ as for HOME - streaming HD movies - mmmh, I hope my broadband is up to it, crawls for a lot
of the day .....do I really want to roam as a avatar ?....mmmmh

frosty

05-27-2008, 11:01 AM

Well, in all honesty, when I think of games that have come out this gen that have the best graphics, PS3 titles top the list (as well as make up the majority of that list). I've yet to see the 360 produce something as visually impressive as uncharted. COD4 is great on both, but there is something about the look of uncharted that I haven't seen matched on other systems.

One thing that may be letting you down is the fact that many multiplat games are too close to call as far as which is better. This can be expected to a degree, since the devs kinda have to design a game that takes all of it's target platforms' weaknesses into account. You won't have a team going too far out of their way to make sure that both versions are 100% optimized to milk every last drop of power that they can out of each platform. That just costs too much and is too time consuming.

That said, some of PS3's exclusive efforts really show off what the system can do. It may not be miles ahead of 360, but you can't expect that just because some chart showed a bigger block for the ps3 when it came to cpu power. GPU's are similar in power... memory is similar... so visually you can't expect too much more. That said, when it comes to audio the ps3 really does win hands down. So, even if the visuals are only slightly better (although I notice a widening gap as time goes on, such as with KZ2), the overall package does present a more powerful system considering you have uncompressed 24 bit pcm 7.1 channel surround sound alongside a standard HDD and a BD drive. It gives the developers more flexability. Over time, they will continue to learn to get the most out of the system and it's strengths will become more apparent. For me this has already happened, but as I look at titles coming around the corner, I'm seeing some really impressive things. Both systems are very powerful, and both have a lot of exiting things to offer in the coming years, but for me the PS3 has shown to be the more complete package. Even if it isn't light years ahead of the 360, it still offers a lot more under the hood and also has the ps2's developer support (even if it is taking them forever to get their games out).

Bliss

05-27-2008, 11:10 AM

well, a next gen game is something that makes you saying WOW ! a true step forward in graphics, physics, collision-system, animations, game-play, sound, the whole game! the first game for me was Uncharted, with these beautiful environments full of geometry, covered by ultra-detailed textures, amazing lighting where everything seems alive, the immersive sound...
The animations are great and the collision-system is a step forward to previous games. So a 1st gen PS3 game already managed to be a Next Gen Game, looking better than anything else. And what about MGS4? I have still to play it, but from what I saw and read, it should be another real Next Gen Game. Killzone2? have you ever seen this kind of graphics, effects, animations, atmosphere and all the things going on on screen in so huge and detailed environments ? it seems a real war, so credible for the graphics, effects, physics, animations, sound!!!
So, what do you want from this generation ? more? ok, so wait for PS4 and XBox720 :) ps: we have still to see FFXIII and versus, the final GT5, Ico projects, the final game KZ2, God of War3, the sequel of Uncharted and other exclusive not yet announced and many others! Second gen gaming for PS3 has just started, and I truly don't understand some talking about "when we'll see these glory days, blah, blah", when these days are here! it's just me, it's my opinion, but this so called "glory days" started 7-8 months ago with games like R&C, Uncharted, COD4, Burnout paradise.
"glory days" start when you start to really enjoy your console, the games.
I burned Uncharted and Rachet, now burning GTA4 and I will burn MGS4!
Glory days for me are now, starting 7-8 months ago :)

EvilTaru

05-27-2008, 11:30 AM

MGS4, Resistance 2 and LBP should make this year a very good year for the PS3.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/EvilTaru/gladtomeetya.gif

Passive

05-27-2008, 11:40 AM

^ thats all that need be said really.

The console is still young. give it time.

Viper

05-27-2008, 12:47 PM

I think a lot of people saw how the Xbox came out in 2001 and was immediately showing a graphic fidelity the PS2 couldn't handle and they were wanting, and hyped into believing, the PS3 would do the same over X360.

The cost of entry, the development curve, the development time, X360 being lead platform for most multiplatform titles, etc...have all prolonged that anticipated display of power.

frosty

05-27-2008, 01:11 PM

^and honestly, the difference in graphics between the two systems (xbox and ps2) really wasn't that great at it's launch. I remember reading Kojima talking about MGS2 on Xbox, and how he was only able to get a little more resolution out of the shadows, as well as better reflections on Snake's eyes for that version. Xbox really didn't start to show it's strengths until later on in it's life cycle... hmm.... sounds familiar...

Segitz

05-27-2008, 03:02 PM

The original XBox only had one advantage, which also was one of their bigger disadvantages... It had twice the RAM... but in a unified way without eDRAM. Thus, bumping up resolution or textures was done at the flick of a switch basically (compared to PS2 games).

But graphics isn't everything, as we see with the Wii. The PS2 always was the lower end hardware last generation, yet it prevailed in MANY ways.

My biggest "disappointment" in the PS3 is the really slow release of high class games. If you forget about the crappy games EA et al release, there's basically only a handful of games left. As of now, I bought exactly 3 games on BD (MS, GT5P and GTA4), the rest, I rented (although, I think, I'll buy Uncharted and Ratchet, when they reach bargain bin prices of <20€). I usually don't play shooters, and many of the "high class games" are shooters, which really pisses me off. There aren't any JRPGs to speak of (don't tell me to try Enchanted Arms... a game with the moniker EA cannot be good^^), there's no Horror game yet (and I have no hope of SH5 being any good... maybe PH will remedy this situation with AitD), only one jump and run adventure (Ratchet), whereas the PS2 had hundreds of them (where's Sly, Jak...)...

I still say, the PS3 (as well as the 360!!) lack games. If you don't count in shooters, there's not much left to speak of (beside some games). The Wii I cannot talk about... most software is shovelware or Mario based stuff I don't like.

But, come Xmas, this problem is blown away hopefully, by the release of LBP and other nice games (RE5 :D).

Interestingly, Square complains about low sales, yet they didn't even bother to try to release good games last year. Only remakes to speak of. Where's SEs effort on the PS3? We are 18 or 14 months into the system, yet there is NO game yet?!? What gives? I know, high profile games like FF take time, but I thought FFXII was a hiccup in terms of development length. FFX was released one year after the PS2 was launched and FFXIII won't hit before the system has reached it's second birthday. This is unbelievable!

I also hope, there will be many more PSN games released over the course of the year. I couldn't care less for games like Echochrome or Poker... Give me games like Winter or World Games on the Amiga (great party games!) or 1942, Rayden... and... for f*cks sake, give me MGS1 and all FF games as PSN downloads already! As well as RE1-3!

AbominatioN

05-27-2008, 04:45 PM

I am very happy with my PS3. Sure it was more expensive than the xbox2, but it is a truly high tech machine. A powerful game console, an excellent (and future proof) BD player, has a lot of multimedia functionalities, free online, region free games, linux, etc... Oh, and (comparing with the xbox2) really really great stability.

I believe the "glory days" are now. We have some bad games, and some good games. And in the future, we'll get a lot more of bad games and more of good games :-)

But... the one thing I'm not happy, is the lack of a hack for the PS3. I truly believe that a hack will lift the PS3 sales chart through the stratosphere. The damn thing has sold 13M with no hacks! The xbox2 has sold 19M due to the hacked dvdrom. Yes, I know it has a lot of good games, and that alone drives the sales. But, judging from my friends, 9 out of 10, bought the xbox2 just for the piracy. 1,2€ for a blank d/l dvd, adsl speeds,and every damn game is theirs. And it is even "sponsored" by microsoft itself. Microsoft still lets hacked xbox2 consoles to play games online, using a burned game disk. Microsoft knows that piracy is bad for the software, but it sure sells more hardware. And more hardware sales, attracts more software. PS2 sold 125+M due to piracy. PSP 25+M due to piracy. The same for xbox & xbox2.

I do NOT applaud piracy, but money makes the world go around. And the majority of us, can not buy all the games we like. (I live in a country where each game costs 70€, and the average monthly salary is 700€.)

PS. I have a hacked PS2 with HDD + HDLoader and a hacked PSP, and I download a lot of games for both machines, but I always buy the games that I loved. I Just got GOW2 for 20€.
If a CFW arises for the PS3, I'll get a 2nd PS3 (probably sell a kidney for the money) for the hacked games, and keep the 1st PS3 for the original & online games that I love.

[/rant]

dnpmakkah

05-27-2008, 05:17 PM

Never saw a game on the xbox that couldn't be done on the PS2...so I don't know why people always go back to it as if the differences were huge.

Bliss

05-27-2008, 05:27 PM

I still say, the PS3 (as well as the 360!!) lack games. If you don't count in shooters, there's not much left to speak of (beside some games). The Wii I cannot talk about... most software is shovelware or Mario based stuff I don't like.

well, I don't agree with you, but I respect your opinion :)

the best games need time, but I think both PS3 and XBox360 did a nice job in their first year, year and half, respectively.

PS3 : Army of two, Assassin's creed, Burnout Paradise, Call of Duty 3, Call of Duty 4, Jericho, Colin Dirt, Condemned 2, Devil may Cry 4, Everybody's golf, F.E.A.R, FIFA 08, Fight Night Round 3, Folklore, FullAuto2, Guitar Hero III, GR: Advanced W 2, GT5P, Half Life 2, Heavenly Sword, Madden NFL 08, Motorstorm, NBA 2K8, NBA Street, NHL 2K7, Ninja Gaiden Sigma, PES 08, Rainbow Six: Vegas2, R&C, Resistance, Sega Rally Revo, Skate, SingStar, The Darkness, Oblivion 4, The eye of judgment, Tiger Woods, Uncharted, Virtua Fighter 5, Virtua Tennis 3, Warhaw, WWE S VS RAW 08, Rock Band, GTA4, MGS4(in a while). (and all these games received good or very very good review!) and LBP, Resistance2, Socom, Bioshock, Siren, KZ2 and many many others will come in a while! but someone is not so happy...

...me is so happy! and PS3 is doing very VERY well! ;)

Viper

05-27-2008, 05:39 PM

Never saw a game on the xbox that couldn't be done on the PS2...so I don't know why people always go back to it as if the differences were huge.

Riddick, Doom 3, Fable, Ninja Gaiden Black, etc....

the boney king of nowhere.

05-27-2008, 05:42 PM

i always thought splinter cell 3 on the xbox looked awesome.

*irrelevant*

dnpmakkah

05-27-2008, 05:58 PM

Riddick, Doom 3, Fable, Ninja Gaiden Black, etc....Xbox 360 to PS2 is a big difference but Xbox to PS2 is not that big of a difference. Just saying it wasn't that big of a difference that people make it out to be IMO.

Viper

05-27-2008, 06:03 PM

Xbox 360 to PS2 is a big difference but Xbox to PS2 is not that big of a difference. Just saying it wasn't that big of a difference that people make it out to be IMO.

But, those ARE Xbox games.

There is a bigger difference in Xbox to PS2 than there is between X360 and PS3.

Multiplatform games last generation were not as indistinguishable as they as they are this generation.

Sephiroth_VII

05-27-2008, 07:40 PM

Not trying to be a fanboy here, but all the games mentioned were released near the end of the 360's lifecycle.

But people, there certainly was a bigger visual difference between PS2 and Xbox visually that between PS3 and the 360, because the Xbox had twice the amount of RAM. That means a lot for textures and other visual stuff.

I think most of the difference between PS3 and 360 will be found in animation, lightening, sound and AI.

curryking1

05-27-2008, 08:26 PM

The PS3 isn't going to have PS2 glory days. It's not going to have 24 or so consecutive months of 400 000 plus sales. And why is this? They've simply missed too many golden opportunities for another one to come around for this console race.

I'll try to do a decent job to sum up the current status of the PS3 in a few points.

1) The PS3 has missed multiple instances and continues to miss multiple instances to promote itself. It continues to miss opportunities to sell itself based on it's determining and individualizing features.

--1a) People still do not know what BluRay means confidently enough to purchase it

--1b) People obviously don't realise that the PS3 plays BluRays if they aren't even confident with what BluRay is itself

--1c) What does the PS3 actually do?? No one knows! I seriously don't really know! Really! You may know... but you already have a PS3.

2) Sony has failed to get movie studios on board with saying 'PS3 plays BluRay'

--2a) I have only seen 1 advertisement that mentions PS3 plays BluRay... that's out of hundreds of advertisements.

3) Sony takes risks on developers... but why are these such bad risks?

--3a) Ninja Theory takes the cake by explaining it's own demise. They have a terrible track record with no remotely AAA status IP ever made. The only reason they had one AAA aspect (cutscenes) was because Sony made it so. Why risk on Goddess of War when you have the authority to simply make another God of War... even if it were rushed... it would still in fact be God of War.

--3b) Factor 5 is a more interesting one to detest. They have only a single rememberable IP (Rogue Squadron) ever made in their library other than Turrican from ages no one can properly remember. Yet someone allows them to make Dragon Squadron. That's amazing...

---------------------------------------

I don't think Playstation 3 fans really appreciate the severity of the situation the PS3 finds itself in. I don't think people are willing to actually think about these things.

But at least I'm sure you can be willing to appreciate another thing. Even in this massive hole the PS3 is now stuck in... The PS3... almost in some illusory way... still has great support from big names and big publishers.

4) Metal Gear Solid 4, Little Big Planet, Gran Turismo 5, Resistance 2, Afrika, The Getaway, Killzone 2, White Knight Chronicles, Final Fantasy XIII... and countless other support from devs with unnannounced projects or currently on announced ones.

--4a)What other console which experienced third place treatment gets to see that kind of exclusive support? How and when is Sony still able to muster this? It honestly must be momentum and reputability carrying over from the lifetimes and brand of the Playstation 1 and 2 and the brand of Sony.

This is only to say Playstation 3 owners should be very satisfied even with all the damage the PS3 has sustained over 2 years of life.

We still have this to experience and somehow there is still some form of retribution there. It's unreal... and absolutely so!

...That even if the Playstation 3 ends up dead last it may still end up as exactly what we all wanted in the end and a damn good Playstation. That's the kind of glory days the Playstation 3 might still yet achieve.

JasonXe

05-27-2008, 08:43 PM

what is Afrika? A pokemon snapshot game?

dnpmakkah

05-27-2008, 08:52 PM

Multiplatform games don't have that much of a difference between them, at least not in my view.

Segitz

05-27-2008, 09:44 PM

2) Sony has failed to get movie studios on board with saying 'PS3 plays BluRay'

I am not quite sure, what you mean by that. After HDDVDs death, every major studio releases movies on Blu Ray. Every new movie gets Blu Ray Treatment day one (at least from what I saw).

--2a) I have only seen 1 advertisement that mentions PS3 plays BluRay... that's out of hundreds of advertisements.

I've seen at least 2. The one with the dog in the washing machine (when the "This is Living" campain launched and the second was when Spiderman 3 was released on Blu Ray. There were others, but I can't recall them.

4) Metal Gear Solid 4, Little Big Planet, Gran Turismo 5, Resistance 2, Afrika, The Getaway, Killzone 2, White Knight Chronicles, Final Fantasy XIII... and countless other support from devs with unnannounced projects or currently on announced ones.

That's more what I like :D

--4a)What other console which experienced third place treatment gets to see that kind of exclusive support? How and when is Sony still able to muster this? It honestly must be momentum and reputability carrying over from the lifetimes and brand of the Playstation 1 and 2 and the brand of Sony.

I doubt that it's only that. Remember, when Nintendo was boss (back in SNES and NES day), publishers still shunned them, because Nintendo treated third parties badly. They learned from it, but Sony seems to not have done the same mistake. Seeing that high-budget games like MGS and FF get exclusive PS3 treatment shows, at least to some degree, that Sony treated their third parties fairly.

This is only to say Playstation 3 owners should be very satisfied even with all the damage the PS3 has sustained over 2 years of life.

I wouldn't say damage. Much of this is "make believe" by opposing fanboys. The PS3 sold 12m units in 18 months or so, which is "above average", even factoring in the price the PS3 costs.

...That even if the Playstation 3 ends up dead last it may still end up as exactly what we all wanted in the end and a damn good Playstation. That's the kind of glory days the Playstation 3 might still yet achieve.

It won't end up dead last... At least if you count 2 and 2 together. I just hope for my PS3s sake, that Sony won't abandon the PS3, when they release the PS4 earlier than expected. That would hurt, as to me, the PS3 is THE BEST console ever made (except the Amiga... but that is a different story altogether)

Thx for listening

drakkar

05-27-2008, 10:25 PM

GTAce

05-27-2008, 10:27 PM

(Titles bolded is what I would call heavy hitters/sales preformers)
Then bold friggin LBP. >8(

drakkar

05-27-2008, 10:29 PM

oops, my mistake. Will change!

GTAce

05-27-2008, 10:33 PM

Thats way better. :thumbl:

Bliss

05-27-2008, 10:39 PM

drakkar

05-27-2008, 11:06 PM

Bliss

05-27-2008, 11:23 PM

I think that all that has to be said is that the PS3 does have games, great games. So if you have one there is something to play on it! And I didn't even go into some of the older greats, Resistance, Motorstorm, Oblivion, Ninja Gaiden Sigma, Warhawk, and yes even Heavanly Sword has merit.

exactly, and I suspect that the ones who "complain" about the line-up don't even know which games are released for PS3. they simply don't know PS3 line-up.
Anyway, as you said, the point is made, so no further words.

EvilTaru

05-27-2008, 11:33 PM

what I tried to say...
...I think this is a very very good line-up, oh why someone is still talking? :)
PS2 was far from this in the beginning! and what about XBox360 in its first year, one year and half ? my opinion ? PS3 1st year and half >> XBox360 1st year and half. IMO PS3 is already showing its bigger muscles and it will set apart in 2009.

It's a fucking awesome line-up.

Domination

05-28-2008, 12:31 AM

Gegenki

05-28-2008, 01:52 AM

Applefiend

05-28-2008, 02:14 AM

Saw this today from Deadmeat the idiot boy, but does kinda illustrate my point:

http://www.ps3news.ca/05262008/09/codemasters_talks_ps3_grid_vs_xbox_360

Codemasters Talks PS3 GRID Vs. Xbox 360
by Robert Gordon

With GRID coming out next week, it's crunch time for Codemasters to get things right after the underwhelming demo.

According to executive producer Gavin Raeburn (aka Uncle Chewy), not only have there been major improvements made, but there's more tweaks on the way in patch form.

"Firstly, we v-sync every frame, but allow the game to overrun if needed, which is very rare and is much preferable to a complete frame drop," he wrote on the company's official forum.

"Secondly, our performance tests show that the 360 is running at a rock solid 30fps and the PS3 rarely drops, being rock solid 99% of the time. San Fran in the demo is probably our worst performer when the action gets really heavy on a couple of those long straights," Raeburn continued.

"Thirdly, we don't lead on any platform. We have dedicated teams on each platform as that is the only way to get the best from each of them," he added.

"Fourthly, there are some extra performance improvements between the demo and release on PS3 as we were tuning right to the last minute. This should be apparent in our forthcoming reviews. Just to be on the safe side, we also have some further improvements lined up our patch," concluded the Codemasters exec.

So all these system wars are about a lousy 1%? :D Stuff like this is why I'm going PS3 only. Pick the one with the exclusives you like, really. All about the exclusives.

Domination

05-28-2008, 02:18 AM

Basically sony marketing is poor.
I would say that in light of their current position it makes sense.
Take the time needed, establish yourself, then market the hell out of what you got.
But I just don't see that happening otherwise the PSP probably would have followed a similar route.

What i can say is that recent surveys - albeit from a not entirely representative group - have shown high interset in the PS3. So sony may be waiting for a time when it works out better to market the ps3.
Like when the price comes down -> instead of exhausting market awareness and tolerance at a point when people aren't going to buy it.

But I duno, that agency sony have doing their ads sucks though.

Everyone of their platforms has suffered the same exact transition following a notorious entry. From my perspective and opinion, I don't think it was so much that Microsoft had a grand entry when they introduced their platform nor do I believe them to have one now; I honestly feel that, just like always, it was Sony that stumbled over their own feet when they usually introduce a new system as the number one cause that created distance between both they and the competition.

The upside to it all is that their platforms gradually establishes momentum over time. Many may believe this to be too late. Me, I feel that a road is being set to not only create tension but also to halt any sales that could potentually be established in any future event by a great margin to jeopardize any chance they have to catching up with their comeptition.

Gegenki

05-28-2008, 03:14 AM

You know its only just occured to me that I don't actually know whats on live.
I just get this word of mouth thing that live is much better than PSN.
I mean with the xbox they were saying Live - and i was like... live lets you play online. And people said Live was better then and I was like... you pay to play online...
And now live has all this stuff and I'm still here thinking, what has live got? I don't know whats on it, I don't know what it looks like, as far as the 360 goes im a general consumer, and I don't know anything about the 360 ahead of a couple big game names and the blade.
I reckon at this point that its almost exclusively word of mouth thats tiping the 3 way balance.

psx_warrior

05-28-2008, 03:14 AM

It's as it's always been. Sega Genesis had comparible graphics to Super Nintendo, even though it was technically enferior. PS2 was technically enferior to Gamecube, but RE4 looked vertially the same on both consoles, and the same will probably be said this gen of the 360 and PS3. Just look at COD4. As far as its glory days go, obviously, it's a high end console that's really expensive, so if you look at it that way, we should be happy that it's not gone the way of the 3DO. Personally, I'm more than happy with the PS3. The Blue Ray drive allows me to watch totally gorgeous versions of movies I've loved for years. The selection of games is good, and the graphics are totally slamin on my high def tv.

Gegenki

05-28-2008, 03:18 AM

Would it not be teh case that if you allowed 1 version to be better your really just shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to taht user base

Hisham

05-28-2008, 03:30 AM

I think we are forgetting what has been available, and what will be available.

Let us take a look from last october up to the end of this upcoming December (assuming all dates don't slip):

In October we got: Folklore, Eye of Judgment, Rachet + Clank: Future Guitar Hero 3

In November we got: Call of Duty 4, Assassins Creed, Uncharted, Rock Band

In December we got: Unreal Tournament 3, The Orange Box

January brought us: Burnout Paradise

February brought us: Devil May Cry, Lost Planet

March brought us: Army of Two, MLB The Show 08, Rainbow Six Vegas 2, Hot Shots Golf: Out of Bounds

April brought us: Gran Turismo 5 Prologue , Grand Theft Auto IV

May brings us: Singstar, Haze, Quake Wars,

June will bless us with: Metal Gear Solid 4

Sometime in Summer: Wipeout HD, Siren

August will see: Madden 09,Mercenaries 2,

September will see: Socom: Confrontation, Bioshock, Star Wars: Force Unleashed

October will see: Little Big Planet, Motorstorm: Pacific Rift

November will see: Resistance 2

And I am sure I missed a slew of other games. But to say that this line up is disappointing, well, we really have to re-evaluate what is realistic. The good news is that E3 has yet to happen, so anything from that show is gravey. As for not being next gen enough, well that is for you to decide. I for one am not disappointed with what next generation has had to offer.

(Titles bolded is what I would call heavy hitters/sales preformers)

Holy $#^! I forgot Rock Band!

Almost all of this list is multiplatform... Exclusives is what really drives a system... Now if you knock off all the multiplatform games (also timed exclusives like UT3) you get:

In October we got: Folklore, Eye of Judgment, Rachet + Clank: Future

In November we got: Uncharted

In December we got: Nothing

January brought us: Nothing

February brought us: Nothing

March brought us: MLB The Show 08, Hot Shots Golf: Out of Bounds

April brought us: Gran Turismo 5 Prologue

May brings us: Singstar

June will bless us with: Metal Gear Solid 4

Sometime in Summer: Wipeout HD, Siren

August will see: Nothing

September will see: Socom: Confrontation

October will see: Little Big Planet, Motorstorm: Pacific Rift

November will see: Resistance 2

The line up suddenly turns out a whole lot less appealing when most of the games are avalible elsewhere. Exclusive wise, the 360 still has more games.

I will say what I have been saying from the start of this generation though. It has gotten off to a pretty shitty start from all fronts. I noticed this time around, I am mostly catching up with games I never played in the last generation rather than waiting on next gen titles. This year, the only next gen exclusvies I am excited for are MGS4 and Resistance 2 (T6, not so much anymore). Back when I had the PS2 (got it a year after release), I had so many games to get, and so many more that were comming out that it was crazy.

This gen is feeling like the Gamecube because I remember when I would go months without buying a game for the gamecube because of the drought of games that intrested me on that system. And it isn't even the PS3 itself, the 360 suffers from this too, I find. And the Wii only has one fucking game that I really want, and the rest are meh.

[/end rant]

I really just am amazed at the crappiness of this generation as a whole so far (probably because there are so many goddamn shooters on the market). There is one thing that has me hyped though and that is the resurgance of fighters, and that is something that I look foward to when they start getting released. Other than that, I probably only have a few titles here and there that I am really interested in paying full price for.

EDIT:
but RE4 looked vertially the same on both consoles,

Having owned, and played them both, this is nowhere near true. Gamecube's lighting was TONS better, and there was a big difference in the way the games looked. Play wise it was the same, but the Gamecube version got the nod big time.

Viper

05-28-2008, 03:37 AM

You are simply understimating the PlayStation. That is all I can tell you.
You speak of a brand, I speak of the actual hardware. Also, didn't I just say the PS3 would pull ahead graphically, it's just a slower process than expected? How exactly am I underestimating "Playstation"?

It's as it's always been. Sega Genesis had comparible graphics to Super Nintendo, even though it was technically enferior. PS2 was technically enferior to Gamecube, but RE4 looked vertially the same on both consoles, and the same will probably be said this gen of the 360 and PS3. Just look at COD4. As far as its glory days go, obviously, it's a high end console that's really expensive, so if you look at it that way, we should be happy that it's not gone the way of the 3DO. Personally, I'm more than happy with the PS3. The Blue Ray drive allows me to watch totally gorgeous versions of movies I've loved for years. The selection of games is good, and the graphics are totally slamin on my high def tv.
Have you seen both? They had to remove a lot of polygons, textures, lighting and shaders for the PS2 version to even run properly and the cutscenes weren't real time, they were recorded from the GC build and played as video on the PS2 build.

curryking1

05-28-2008, 03:40 AM

Thanks a lot Hisham man. I was under the same impression. I mean... he basically listed every game that came for the damn PS3 for god's sake lol. We were talking about games that drive the sales of a system correct?

You can have as many Burnouts or Maddens or whatnot but that won't increase the momentum of a system. You can get it anywhere and that's just giving a helping hand to something that isn't helping itself.

Momentum doesn't care about Army of Two. Doesn't care about Wipeout HD. Nor even Uncharted or Ratchet and Clank if sales are to go by at all (and that does spell the rate of sales...). Momentum cares about Final Fantasy and Metal Gear and hopefuls like Little Big Planet and Killzone 2. Everything else is just the grease between the wheels of success.

And I honestly think this generation sucks as well. The PS3 is boring. I don't play it. That is all. It is in fact boring. Next gen is in fact boring.

All there is to play are a bunch of half hearted games with pretty faces which on closer inspection aren't pretty at all. I play PS1, PS2, and SNES games way more than I play any combination of PS3 games. I mean how many times do I need to play Uncharted? Resistance is amazing but it too can only go so far. Even GTA...
My GTA Rant... this is an aside...

GTA IV was supposed to be the ultimate standard for next gen... but it turned out more of a ultimate last gen game. 'A far more interactive city' my ass. I can't even find a building to run into and out the back of to evade the police... or at least have a dramatic off-the-walls shootout. And the innards of buildings were the most interesting part of the game environment wise!

What a waste of a GTA iteration which had so much going for it as well. I mean... GTA III pushed the technical limits of the most advanced system on the market... GTA IV just placed some decorated eggs into a basket and called it a day. Ok it wasn't so dire and GTA IV was amazing... but for the love of God it could've been so much more.

And rags to better rags my fucking ass. I have $250 000 by the middle of the ***king game!! What the ***k is that?!

-------------------@Segitz

I doubt that it's only that. Remember, when Nintendo was boss (back in SNES and NES day), publishers still shunned them, because Nintendo treated third parties badly. They learned from it, but Sony seems to not have done the same mistake. Seeing that high-budget games like MGS and FF get exclusive PS3 treatment shows, at least to some degree, that Sony treated their third parties fairly.

That's what I'm saying man. We are lucky for this. We are lucky that even among all so many poor things to occur to the PS3 as poor ports and a mild general developer negligence and interest in the PS3 (as in guys like Ubisoft or EA or etc)...

We are lucky that so many projects are still on the PS3. Without Sony's friendliness from the past, we would not be so lucky, you are right. I was just saying we are fortunate to still have so many games to look forward to even with poor PS3 commercial success.

I wouldn't say damage. Much of this is "make believe" by opposing fanboys. The PS3 sold 12m units in 18 months or so, which is "above average", even factoring in the price the PS3 costs.

I'm not talking about damage Segitz. I'm talking about poor performance as in 'below Sony's and Sony fans expectations. And no one can deny that is where the PS3 lies... below expectations.

And my expectations have changed to solely games now. I can no longer expect 100 million PS3s in households around the world. My new expectations have still not been reached though, I just want to make sure I keep consistent with that. I need to really have a good reception to all those games that are expected to be fantastic which are those exclusive PS3 games.

It won't end up dead last... At least if you count 2 and 2 together. I just hope for my PS3s sake, that Sony won't abandon the PS3, when they release the PS4 earlier than expected. That would hurt, as to me, the PS3 is THE BEST console ever made (except the Amiga... but that is a different story altogether)

You're missing the meaning of the lingo here... I say 'even if' it ends up dead last. As in... it doesn't matter where it ends up... It will still be amazing. Which is in perfect agreeance with yourself... Got it now? :P

It's going to take me all the MGS4, Killzone 2, WKC, Afrika, LBP to convince me again the PS3 is the system deserving of my praise, and that's the same reason for you Segitz.

And thank you for reading my post all the way through, Segitz ;)

curryking1

05-28-2008, 03:54 AM

Have you seen both? They had to remove a lot of polygons, textures, lighting and shaders for the PS2 version to even run properly and the cutscenes weren't real time, they were recorded from the GC build and played as video on the PS2 build.

Viper speaks pure truth here. The PS2 version was noticeably but thankfully not terribly stripped down from the GC version. The PS2 version also could not handle as many enemies on screen even with the lower poly counts and fewer and lower resolution textures and effects.

I have no idea how this pertains to anything as I didn't read what you guys were talking about... but this is the truth between the GC and PS2 versions of RE4.

drakkar

05-28-2008, 04:00 AM

Thanks a lot Hisham man. I was under the same impression. I mean... he basically listed every game that came for the damn PS3 for god's sake lol.

We were talking about games that drive the sales of a system? You can have as many Burnouts or Madden's or whatnot but that won't increase the momentum of a system.

Momentum doesn't care about Army of Two. Doesn't care about Wipeout HD. Nor even Uncharted or Ratchet and Clank if sales are to go by at all (and that does spell the rate of sales...).

Momentum cares about Final Fantasy and Metal Gear and hopefuls like Little Big Planet and Killzone 2. Everything else is just the grease between the wheels of success.

And I honestly think this generation sucks as well. Honestly, the PS3 is boring. I don't play it. That is all. All there is to play are a bunch of half hearted games with pretty faces which on closer inspection aren't pretty at all. I play PS1, PS2, and SNES games way more than I play any combination of PS3 games. I mean how many times do I need to play Uncharted? Resistance is amazing but it too can only go so far. And I mean GTA IV.. GTA IV was supposed to be the ultimate standard for next gen... but it turned out more of a ultimate last gen game.

That's what I'm saying man. We are lucky for this. We are lucky that even among all so many poor things to occur to the PS3 as poor ports and a mild general developer negligence and interest in the PS3 (as in guys like Ubisoft or EA or etc)...

We are lucky that so many projects are still on the PS3. Without Sony's friendliness from the past, we would not be so lucky, you are right. I was just saying we are fortunate to still have so many games to look forward to even with poor PS3 commercial success.

I'm not talking about damage Segitz. I'm talking about poor performance as in 'below Sony's and Sony fans expectations. And no one can deny that is where the PS3 lies... below expectations.

And my expectations have changed to solely games now. I can no longer expect 100 million PS3s in households around the world. My new expectations have still not been reached though, I just want to make sure I keep consistent with that. I need to really have a good reception to all those games that are expected to be fantastic which are those exclusive PS3 games.

You're missing my point... I say 'even if' it ends up dead last. As in... it doesn't matter where it ends up... It will still be amazing. Which is in perfect agreeance with yourself... Got it now? :P

It's going to take me all the MGS4, Killzone 2, WKC, Afrika, LBP to convince me again the PS3 is the system deserving of my praise, and that's the same reason for you Segitz.

And thank you for reading my post all the way through, Segitz ;)

You can't honestly believe that madden does not push systems? The rerason for the list of the games (which tons of gamers seem to get so flustered by) is to prove that the price he paid for a PS3 is justifiable, well at the very least to hardcore gamers. Now also the topic starter does not have an xbox360, hence those games carry more validity. As for techinical trumpery, well that is still to be determined, and has been demonstrated by most of the third parties, they aren't so interested in pushing eacch machine due to the difference in each others architecture.

But, I digress. The post was merely a way to show the original poster that he still purchased a damn good games machine.

curryking1

05-28-2008, 04:13 AM

We're just looking at pushing a system differently.

Yes, every game does it's bit. And surely Madden does garner lots of attention. And for sure there are a lot of people who will buy a new system because a new Madden came out and they really want to play a next gen version.

But I mean Madden is a very miniscule marketing power in comparison to games like Final Fantasy or Zelda or Mario or Halo.

When these particular games release it is like an event or similar. You can statistically prove with so much ease that these particular games literally 'moved systems' and therefore really changed the momentum.

These games take a consistent typical sales velocity that is unique to the particular product at a completely average level of attention and turn the dial completely up you know?

And my second point would be the easier one... Madden is on all systems and when we look at the relevance in relative terms it means next to nothing. Those are the two particular reasons give my choice of definition of 'system seller.'

1) The games that really set themselves apart as spectacles for a large blockbuster audience and can be easily described and proven to move consoles

and...

2) Because these are competitors in a race... it is all very relative... and when something is considered to support across all systems it removes it's relative relevance.

But remember this at least... I agree with you and I'm completely under the impression that the PS3 is still a great system and that is due to the fact... there's still thankfully great things to be waiting for...

Domination

05-28-2008, 04:16 AM

You speak of a brand, I speak of the actual hardware. Also, didn't I just say the PS3 would pull ahead graphically, it's just a slower process than expected? How exactly am I underestimating "Playstation"?

Have you seen both? They had to remove a lot of polygons, textures, lighting and shaders for the PS2 version to even run properly and the cutscenes weren't real time, they were recorded from the GC build and played as video on the PS2 build.

I believe I read your original post wrong, Viper.

OG_Monkey

05-28-2008, 04:36 AM

I don't think no one console will win overwhelmly this time around. Just to much parody between each console that it would ultimately look as a draw at the end of each console cycle.

Pashhhhhhhhiiiiiit! You heard of, the Wii?

Nameless

05-28-2008, 04:43 AM

Honestly anyone who says the PS3 has no games is an absolute fool IMO...
I just had this conversation with someone who sounded pro 360 while playing COD4 on the PSN yesterday. The guy went into a rant saying anyone who purchases the PS3 is a fool unless they want a Bluray player, because all of the good games are multi-platform. I can actually somewhat agree with that thought process, but it's still a bit flawed IMO.

Personally I think both platforms have not really delivered a plethora of AAA exclusive titles since their release. The PS3 is now starting to hit a stride with several exclusive titles being released late last year and throughout 2008. I would say the major difference in the Platforms is definitely exclusive content, but the multimedia capabilities of the PS3 can not be ignored. *I’m referring to the 60/80/120GB versions of the hardware.*

If you are looking for a gaming console only and do not own an HD display and nice sound system I would recommend the 360 or Wii without question. If you have a nice AV setup and really want to use it to the full potential and utilize the SD card slot to move music to your cell phone, PSP & iPod or use your Sony camera and memory card to transfer pics; the PS3 is the only real choice. *Don’t forget media streaming, remote play and PSP game demos.*

Most 3rd developers are creating multi-platform content for the PS3, 360 & PC so it really comes down to the hardware feature set and 1st party exclusive titles to differentiate the consoles. When you consider the PS3 is already amazing hardware & look at the currently released exclusive content and announced titles the PS3 is already in its Glory days IMO.

I own both consoles and have not played my 360 once this year...
I prefer using the HDMI output on my PS3 and the multimedia capabilities with my PSP, Camera & cell phone. Once Ninja Gaiden 2 is released my 360 will be put back into service and will get some long overdue attention... ;) That’s my 2 cents.

Gummy

05-28-2008, 06:20 AM

Chad Warden knows what's up.

Glory days? I think it'll be more than just days.

CARTIER90

05-28-2008, 08:54 AM

Curry, you echo my thoughts of GTA....I hardly play it - played the others like mad. Why is it, that its just not 'fun' - the framerate is WORSE than SA, that to me takes the biscuit, shelved !

I think truly innovative titles, by the nature of them, will be a rare breed. The market will always be full of the sport franchises, endless sequels and letdowns (GTA4)...

I just thought gaming would have matured by now, LBP is promising, but il stick my neck out here , is looking to me the very epitome of 'gimmick' (ducks for cover). HOME i can never see having the time for and is essentially yet another gimmick, I dont want to be a fucking avatar ! - and my broadband NEVER works fast enough for streaming HD.

AFRIKA - ahem, just gimme a .50 and those tusks are mine ! - imagine the escaping from safari keepers minigame ! ;)....aaah twont be..

What I am quite impressed by, mind you, are games like Flashpoint 2 - nothing captured my imagination like the original on the PC - truly dynamic gameplay when ones experience is different everytime, shits on the linear majority of shooters from a great height.

I'll be honest, I want to see the end of linear games and have free roaming ones the new standard, yes I appreciate this would take much more time. This is what I wanted the 'nex gen' to be. I think the PS4 - X720 is where the next true generation is, we are experiencing a 5/6 yr transition.

Bliss

05-28-2008, 02:32 PM

Almost all of this list is multiplatform... Exclusives is what really drives a system... Now if you knock off all the multiplatform games (also timed exclusives like UT3) you get:

In October we got: Folklore, Eye of Judgment, Rachet + Clank: Future

In November we got: Uncharted

In December we got: Nothing

January brought us: Nothing

February brought us: Nothing

March brought us: MLB The Show 08, Hot Shots Golf: Out of Bounds

April brought us: Gran Turismo 5 Prologue

May brings us: Singstar

June will bless us with: Metal Gear Solid 4

Sometime in Summer: Wipeout HD, Siren

August will see: Nothing

September will see: Socom: Confrontation

October will see: Little Big Planet, Motorstorm: Pacific Rift

November will see: Resistance 2

The line up suddenly turns out a whole lot less appealing when most of the games are avalible elsewhere. Exclusive wise, the 360 still has more games.

And why I should buy multiplatform games elsewhere(XBox360) when the best multiplatform games are looking/performing better on PS3?! =COD4, Burnout Paradise, DMC4, GTA4, Oblivion4! and why, if I'm interested in a more powerful hardware with BD format with a built-in HD, where I can play the exclusives I like more plus the best multiplatform games performing better on PS3, why oh why I shoul play the multiplatform games elsewhere? if I like the above mentioned????

and now show me your XBox360 line-up in XBox360 first ONE YEAR and half! and I'll show you, from my point of you, that XBox360 has the weakest line-up! ;)

I will say what I have been saying from the start of this generation though. It has gotten off to a pretty shitty start from all fronts. I noticed this time around, I am mostly catching up with games I never played in the last generation rather than waiting on next gen titles. This year, the only next gen exclusvies I am excited for are MGS4 and Resistance 2 (T6, not so much anymore). Back when I had the PS2 (got it a year after release), I had so many games to get, and so many more that were comming out that it was crazy.

it's just you, who are interested only in MGS4 and Resistance2. Many other are interested in MGS4, Resistance2, Killzone2, LBP, Socom, Tekken6, the full GT5, RE5, Ico projects, God of war3, the sequel of Rachet and Uncharted, FFXIII and Versus, PS3 version of Bioshock, and many others! and, sorry, what exactly was available for PS2 in its first year? can you show me the PS2 line-up in its first year? don't get me wrong, I respect your opinion, but please don't complain about PS3 line-up(no great gamkes) as it was a fact or compare to XBox360(you think it did better in the beginning) as it was a fact 'cause it's only your taste, opinion, and many others here think the opposite of you.
Here we are speaking about these "glory days", we are not speaking about any comparison with the other console, not speaking which console has more multiplatform games, we are just telling that PS3 has a lot of games, and GREAT games! a great Line-up! and more great games are coming. you are not happy? it's just you...

curryking1

05-28-2008, 03:02 PM

...MGS4, Resistance2, Killzone2, LBP, Socom, Tekken6, the full GT5, RE5, Ico projects, God of war3, the sequel of Rachet and Uncharted, FFXIII and Versus, PS3 version of Bioshock...

But dear lord man... None of those are out yet! And you can't buy something that's not out yet. No one that's waiting for MGS4 specifically would've bought a PS3 years ago. No one waiting for FF XIII would've bought a PS3 years ago.

Because let's be completely honest.... it has been almost two years now and we have seen little of what makes Playstation 3 a Playstation. These are what make Playstation and Playstation:

FF, MGS, GT, GTA, LPB, KZ2, Afrika, The Getaway, KH, and other games that are highly likely to sell great, and a reasonable price because that's what virtually everyone picking up Playstation for games wants.

You simply can't keep saying 'THIS IS THE BEST LINEUPZ EVER GUYS PPL WILL BUY SO MANY PS3S RIGHT NOW!' We all know it's an amazing lineup. Who do you think we are? Do you think we, who visit a Playstation 3 forum, have not heard of these games?

For every one of us there are 10 or 20 people who will only pick up the Playstation when those big amazing games are actually here. Because they are the larger market. And the larger market only buys stuff when it happens. They aren't endlessly watching the internet for games news like us. The mass market will buy PS3s for FF XIII and MGS4 when FF XIII and MGS4 actually come out.

...best multiplatform games performing better on PS3...

No one in the real world gives a crap about this, and it's not even true for a majority of multiplatform games! Everyone has to stop acting like this matters. We can talk about it and compare multiplat games and all, but in the actual grand scheme of things no one cares. People on the internet have to stop acting like this actually matters to a significant degree.

Want to keep saying this over and over again? Then prove, to a significant degree, that this changes the purchasing behaviours of a general consumers.

__________________________

There is only really one game I would call just a decent flagship title currently which has gotten great commercial reception and popularity and that is Resistance - Fall of Man. Everything else has not reached such reception and has simply become... again grease between the wheels.

We have great technical showcases and some other decent games... but we have only a single game that can be called a flagship game. And for the love of God do not start naming every PS3 game that came out and say 'Oh look it's a system seller too!!'

_____________________________

I'm personally sick of so many people not admitting that the PS3 is in a situation where it essentially has been stagnant for 1.5 years.

Seriously, a person must be blind and stupid not to see this. It has had nothing to claim 'Blockbuster hit!' over for 1.5 years except for again... 1 game. Only Resistance can claim it really held attention high enough to move PS3s much faster than the PS3 could go without it. But even Resistance wasn't such a powerhouse.

If you cannot admit that then you are not fit to discuss anything regarding the PS3's past, present, or future.

----> I quoted everything because it seems easier to read for me....

P.S. Bliss, I strongly agree with you that we should be happy as Playstation 3 owners because we do indeed have a lot of potentially amazing games to look forward to.

Bliss

05-28-2008, 03:20 PM

come on, MGS4 is out in few days, and most will be in 3-5 month.
and you don't need to wait 'cause PS3 already has a great line-up, which will get stronger and stronger from now...I'm sorry you cannot get my point...

so, if I'm happy with R&C and Uncharted I'm stupid? 'cause I don't see your "so called stagnant" situation? if I enjoy Resistance, Oblivion4, or Burnout Paradise, Motorstorm, GTA4, COD4, or Ninja Gaiden Sigam or GT5P, or Heavenly Sword, I cannot be satisfied? 'cause my taste is different from yours?
tell me..

curryking1

05-28-2008, 03:27 PM

Viper

05-28-2008, 03:40 PM

Curry, many people on the Internet still don't realize the PS2 was THE casual console last generation and that people bought it for a single game here or there or Madden/PES/FIFA.

We are vocal, we are zealous, we are avid fans of our industry.......but we are also the few, the niche, the minority. We represent a small portion of the market that acts like the elite vocal representative. We think that our opinions and actions are the determining factors of progress and success.

We are major minors and understanding this goes a long way into understanding our industry as a whole.

Bliss

05-28-2008, 03:48 PM

I'm not talking about me waiting. I already have a PS3.

I'm talking about everyone else that wants another Playstation waiting. Most people don't buy fifty games, they don't want all the random games. They just want GTA or FF or NBA Live to play because those are popular games.

Not everyone wants to play the monthly flavour because they aren't that interested in every videogame on the planet, I hope you realise that.

got it, but we have GTA4, and we have NBA 2K8, which is GREAT with a friend or in 10 players on-line, NHL 2K7 which is great, MGS in few days, FIFA 08 and PES08, just missing FFXIII and Versus...
I think your expectation are unrealistic...

curryking1

05-28-2008, 04:43 PM

Bliss, I'm not saying it's not an awesome lineup. I'm not saying there isn't a lot of fun to be had on the PS3. We are lucky still to have so much blockbuster support for us avid fans. And we are also lucky even to see a decent multiplatform offering as well. The PS3 is still seeing good support even in last place which is great.

All I'm saying is the Playstation 3 in comparison to the PS2 does not have enough of the 'big wall of games' and it doesn't have enough of the 'reasonable price' and not nearly enough of the 'DVD (BluRay) effect' to glue it all together like the PS2 so easily did.

Aside - I really hope the BluRay effect strengthens soon.

The PS3 simply isn't going to do as well as the PS2 in terms of overall sales and unrelenting overall support. It doesn't have enough of those awesome three pieces to finish the puzzle.

Remember, I completely agree with you that there is fun to be had on the PS3. A lot of blockbusters and even all the games the casuals want to play.

But I just see too many things hindering the PS3's plan to move forward, and these things are really limiting it.

Curry, many people on the Internet still don't realize the PS2 was THE casual console last generation and that people bought it for a single game here or there or Madden/PES/FIFA.

That was a good call Viper. The PS3 this gen isn't the only one to have this kind of 'every other game' support. And whatever the PS3 does have of this kind of support... the 360 will get more or less the same support... and the Wii will completely punish both the PS3 and 360 in this respect.

The Wii has everything the PS3 needs to complete the puzzle. Big wall of games from massive developer support, the very, very reasonable price, and instead of the DVD effect it has the Wiimote (which is arguably even better).

Bliss

05-28-2008, 05:07 PM

Bliss, I'm not saying it's not an awesome lineup. I'm not saying there isn't a lot of fun to be had on the PS3. We are lucky still to have so much blockbuster support for us avid fans. And we are also lucky even to see a decent multiplatform offering as well. The PS3 is still seeing good support even in last place which is great.

All I'm saying is the Playstation 3 in comparison to the PS2 does not have enough of the 'big wall of games' and it doesn't have enough of the 'reasonable price' and not nearly enough of the 'DVD (BluRay) effect' to glue it all together like the PS2 so easily did.

Aside - I really hope the BluRay effect strengthens soon.

The PS3 simply isn't going to do as well as the PS2 in terms of overall sales and unrelenting overall support. It doesn't have enough of those awesome three pieces to finish the puzzle.

Remember, I completely agree with you that there is fun to be had on the PS3. A lot of blockbusters and even all the games the casuals want to play.

But I just see too many things hindering the PS3's plan to move forward, and these things are really limiting it.

That was a good call Viper. The PS3 this gen isn't the only one to have this kind of 'every other game' support. And whatever the PS3 does have of this kind of support... the 360 will get more or less the same support... and the Wii will completely punish both the PS3 and 360 in this respect.

The Wii has everything the PS3 needs to complete the puzzle. Big wall of games from massive developer support, the very, very reasonable price, and instead of the DVD effect it has the Wiimote (which is arguably even better).

well, generally I would say it's too early to speak and make conclusion...

about the Wii, it's not "competing" on the same level as PS3 and XBox360, it's last generation hardware, chip, with a lot of funny games for family with children, or friends playing after dinner to have fun together....most are casual gamers...and don't take it as an offence...simply NINTENDO went in another direction(very smart move, 'cause they cannot compete anymore in the old way=Game Cube); it's not any more like DC, PS2, GC and XBox, comparable price, comparable specs. , where it's fair to make a comparison in selling numbers.

and you say : The PS3 is still seeing good support even in last place which is great.

you speak about last place...still seeing good support...when PS3 was out ONE FULL YEAR after XBox360,
selling now better worldwide...?! The trend is what we should look at :)

Viper

05-28-2008, 05:25 PM

well, generally I would say it's too early to speak and make conclusion...

about the Wii, it's not "competing" on the same level as PS3 and XBox360, it's last generation hardware, chip, with a lot of funny games for family with children, or friends playing after dinner to have fun together....most are casual gamers...and don't take it as an offence...simply NINTENDO went in another direction(very smart move, 'cause they cannot compete anymore in the old way=Game Cube); it's not any more like DC, PS2, GC and XBox, comparable price, comparable specs. , where it's fair to make a comparison in selling numbers.

*sigh* Here we go again.

They are competing whether you or any other gamer on the planet likes it or not.

Do all 3 compete for publisher resources?
Do all 3 compete for shelf space?
Do all 3 compete for your money?

Don't give me that "they don't compete" crap. It's just an excuse to feel better about not winning.

As for the hardware, it's actually pretty damn high tech. You equate high tech with high powered. Try telling Intel their new Atom chip isn't high tech. IBM's Broadway chip is using the latest (at the time of initial production in late 2006) chip manufacturing processes. It also contains a high end Broadcom Wi-Fi chip, lots of high end 1t-SRAM memory and a bluetooth controller unit powers two dynamic accelerometers and IR.

If it were also just a kids and party system, then why is Godfather, Scarface, No More Heroes, RE4, Bully, Manhunt 2, etc... already on it with the Conduit, Deadly Creatures, Mad World, Fatal Frame IV, etc...on the way?

I know you were generalizing but it's a generalization that been beaten to death with a spiked mace dipped in acid.

Domination

05-28-2008, 06:18 PM

*sigh* Here we go again.

They are competing whether you or any other gamer on the planet likes it or not.

Do all 3 compete for publisher resources?
Do all 3 compete for shelf space?
Do all 3 compete for your money?

Don't give me that "they don't compete" crap. It's just an excuse to feel better about not winning.

As for the hardware, it's actually pretty damn high tech. You equate high tech with high powered. Try telling Intel their new Atom chip isn't high tech. IBM's Broadway chip is using the latest (at the time of initial production in late 2006) chip manufacturing processes. It also contains a high end Broadcom Wi-Fi chip, lots of high end 1t-SRAM memory and a bluetooth controller unit powers two dynamic accelerometers and IR.

If it were also just a kids and party system, then why is Godfather, Scarface, No More Heroes, RE4, Bully, Manhunt 2, etc... already on it with the Conduit, Deadly Creatures, Mad World, Fatal Frame IV, etc...on the way?

I know you were generalizing but it's a generalization that been beaten to death with a spiked mace dipped in acid.

I have to disagree with you here, Viper.

Do all 3 compete for publisher resources? Yes.

Do all 3 compete for shelf space? Yes

Do all 3 compete for your money? Yes

However, because their direction of appeal is targeting a user base completely different at the end of the day is what makes the two different. Let me start by giving you an example: If a parent non-interested in gaming wanted to purchase the PS3 for its DVD or Blu-Ray capability for themselves while buying a gaming system for the family, how would they achieve this on the Wii? The point is, for them to be interested in the Wii they would have to, at some point, be interested in gaming. This is the problem I find with your debate.

Hisham

05-28-2008, 06:33 PM

And why I should buy multiplatform games elsewhere(XBox360) when the best multiplatform games are looking/performing better on PS3?! =COD4, Burnout Paradise, DMC4, GTA4, Oblivion4! and why, if I'm interested in a more powerful hardware with BD format with a built-in HD, where I can play the exclusives I like more plus the best multiplatform games performing better on PS3, why oh why I shoul play the multiplatform games elsewhere? if I like the above mentioned????

and now show me your XBox360 line-up in XBox360 first ONE YEAR and half! and I'll show you, from my point of you, that XBox360 has the weakest line-up! ;)

It is a fact that most multiplatform games are similar, and ususally the 360 versions of them, infact are better. Just look around, GTA4 on the 360 suffers less slowdown, and there are a lot more instances of this.

And here, I'll give you my first year 360 purchases (got it around

it's just you, who are interested only in MGS4 and Resistance2. Many other are interested in MGS4, Resistance2, Killzone2, LBP, Socom, Tekken6, the full GT5, RE5, Ico projects, God of war3, the sequel of Rachet and Uncharted, FFXIII and Versus, PS3 version of Bioshock, and many others! and, sorry, what exactly was available for PS2 in its first year? can you show me the PS2 line-up in its first year? don't get me wrong, I respect your opinion, but please don't complain about PS3 line-up(no great gamkes) as it was a fact or compare to XBox360(you think it did better in the beginning) as it was a fact 'cause it's only your taste, opinion, and many others here think the opposite of you.
Here we are speaking about these "glory days", we are not speaking about any comparison with the other console, not speaking which console has more multiplatform games, we are just telling that PS3 has a lot of games, and GREAT games! a great Line-up! and more great games are coming. you are not happy? it's just you...

Excuse me, but I didn't pass my opinion off as fact, and it isn't just me, a lot of other people (curry included) aren't satisfied by this generation of consoles. If it seemed like I was passing it off as a fact, then sorry, but I really wasn't. I am just trying to provide the flipside view for the person who isn't satisfied (not just with the PS3, the 360 too). Seriously, how many people are going to buy EVERY game in that list. I could list off all the 360 exclusives (and believe me, the 360 does have mor