MGS4 Post Mortem. Only Enter after completing MGS 4! [Archive]

Nameless

06-18-2008, 04:23 AM

I know we have several MGS4 threads around, but the spoiler tags are starting to get ridiculous IMO. This is a spot for anyone who completed the title to discuss the game spoiler tag free...

First I would like to start by saying this title was incredible from a production value perspective. Also, this was the most complete MGS experience from start to finish and I really appreciate that Kojima decided to make one final MGS title on the PS3. Also, from a gameplay perspective this is definitely the most complete title. I have to admit toward the end the game started to get a bit too serious which became cheesy, but I'm very happy with the ending.

Also, they did actually leave some room for a return of Snake if it's old snake or perhaps a clone later down the road. Honestly I would have liked to see more Raiden, because he was a cool character. I'm sure they are considering a title with the new Raiden as the lead character; I would be willing to purchase a game with him as the lead character if they got the gameplay right. *A Ninja Gaiden type of vibe comes to mind...*:drool:

Let the MGS4 discussions begin!

Hisham

06-18-2008, 04:32 AM

Can't this thread be basically used as the same thing?

http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=86484

Haha, anyways I'll indulge.

I wouldn't want a game with Raiden being a main, no matter how badass I thought he was in this game, simply for the fact that being the respected mentor, Snake told him to value his youth and try to go back to Rose. Really, I don't see him continuing fighting for the government of any country. I'm fine with his story ending here seeing as he is finally going to settle down with Rose and his kid.

If anything, Meryl would be more fitting in a new MG game because there was no indication that she would quit the military after her marrage. But I wouldn't want to see a game with her either.

The only way I can see new MG games is either they fill in parts of the storyline that are only mentioned (such as after the big shell incident, and how Raiden contacted Eva and how he became the Cyborg Ninja) or they create a totally new conflict, and there is a totally new character who may or may not meet previous MG characters.

Anything else would probably be shitty IMO, and seeing as Kojima doesn't want to play a big role in future Metal Gear games, I wouldn't want Konami to end up making the story more convoluded than it already is.

Nameless

06-18-2008, 04:41 AM

Hisham

06-18-2008, 04:48 AM

^ You make a good point regarding Raiden and I had the same thought that he should settle down with this family, but you never know if his family being in danger could lead him to fight... After all he still is a cyborg and not a regular guy so I'm sure there's some room to expand that story. If I had to guess who would be in another title I would agree it would be the Fox Hound unit. Honestly I'm not sure if I could get into a title with that crew being the lead story. It will be interesting to see if they decide to make an additional title in the MGS universe without Kojima. After playing act 4 I would be willing to purchase a next-gen remake of the original MGS title.

YES! They have shadow moses done, and they have the engine. All they have to do is pretty it up and redo the cutscenes. They don't even have to redo the voices either...

What would be awesome is if that standalone MGO pack was more like MGS1 remake with all the MGO updates. That would be so badass. I'd pick that shit up day 1 lol.

Pro A.

06-18-2008, 05:04 AM

I was impressed, in large part, with how MGS3 was so instrumental in piecing the story together. You know, when you first heard in 2003 or so that this game was taking place in the 60's you probably thought that this was just some one-off deal, Big Boss or not, but it turned out to be quite fitting in bringing the pieces of the puzzle together. I also liked the revelations regarding two particular characters from MGS in regards to the Patriots. I doubt if Kojima had that planned from day one, but again, thanks to MGS3 he was able to create a clever backdoor that also adds some depth to MGS' storyline, which is an added bonus. Kojima's plot is very relevant, very smart, and quite frank in the world it depicts, a world that we may be heading towards. MGS2 was right on the money, after all, with its themes of information and the dilution of reality vs. fiction, even with all of the psychobabble thrown in.

I also enjoyed the character interactions. The only character that I thought was out of place was Sunny. Aside from that, I got the sense that we were watching mature, real people talking to one another, and you don't see that in video games. You see it in movies--real movies. Not that mindless summer shit. Video games? Perish the thought.

I have two quibbles that perhaps someone could justify for me. One: It seemed every explanation to a character or something had to do with nanomachines. While they've been a constant presence since MGS1, it seems to me that in a couple of cases (like Vamp's) could have been explained from a more innovative perspective.

Two: I can't help but shake, especially with MGS2's revelations, that Ocelot's motives are somehow... inconsistent. Uh... could someone help me out here please? I'm sure it somehow makes sense, but... you know... its giving me headaches thinking about it.

The ending, though a bit overwrought, is a fitting coda to the saga and to Solid Snake. This is the best game of the series and, perhaps, the best game of 2008 (gonna be a close one between this and GTAIV).

Nameless

06-18-2008, 05:19 AM

I think the character development in this title was off the charts...
I felt a real connection with Snake in this title and somewhat felt his pain; it was the first times in videogames that I felt a real emotional connection with a character. I really started feeling bad for Snake and wanted to see him go out a hero. The only other MGS that did a good job in the area was Snake eater, because I really felt a connect with the original Snake and Boss characters. I do have to say that MGS4 took it to another level and I was glad they decided to let Hal get some action with Naomi... This made Octacon seem like a more realistic character and not some lifeless computer geek. I do have to admit some of his crying spells got a little old, but this game really went all out building an adult story with compelling characters.
The only character that was not that impactful was Liquid, because he got very little on screen time except for the final battle. The snake eater theme was incredible during that fighting sequence.

I will definately play through this again on the extreme settings, because this title is justification for the PS3 purchase period...

Hisham

06-18-2008, 05:34 AM

LaLiLuLeLo

06-18-2008, 05:37 AM

Just one thing.

Did people actually like the last boss fight. Apart from having epic presentation, the gameplay for that was shit. I guess being used to fighting games makes me bias, but the system for that was bleh. I would have rather just had a gun battle, really.

Well, while it is a fist fight, mechanically, it's not a fighting game, and doesn't try to be. I personally thought it was great, if only for taking it back to the last fight against Liquid in MGS, but improving on it with the CQC and evasive abilities. It's all about expectations, cuz I definitely wasn't expecting it to feel like any fighting game. Within the rules of this game I think it works fine, I had a blast.

Pro A.

06-18-2008, 05:40 AM

That was about the only way you could end it between Snake and Liquid Ocelot, really. A gun fight wouldn't have worked with the spirit between these two characters.

Hisham

06-18-2008, 05:45 AM

Well, while it is a fist fight, mechanically, it's not a fighting game, and doesn't try to be. I personally thought it was great, if only for taking it back to the last fight against Liquid in MGS, but improving on it with the CQC and evasive abilities. It's all about expectations, cuz I definitely wasn't expecting it to feel like any fighting game. Within the rules of this game I think it works fine, I had a blast.

True, but really, I still didn't like it.

And yes, I agree that it had to end in a fist fight, but for the boss fight itself could be different. They could have both ran out of ammo, and have a fistfighting cutscene.

I did enjoy the presentation of the ending though. It was some epic shit. The life bars changing, music changing, it made me all tingly, even though I didn't really like the fighting.

LaLiLuLeLo

06-18-2008, 05:46 AM

I'm not trying to change your mind. Just understand that you're wrong. :P

Nameless

06-18-2008, 05:48 AM

TrueVCU

06-18-2008, 05:54 AM

As Lali put it while play, you're basically beating the liquid out of him :p

LaLiLuLeLo

06-18-2008, 06:07 AM

^^ I agree that the fighting felt consistent with the rest of the gameplay mechanics, but it would have been nice to have a better idea of the controls and moves. I really felt like it was trial and error to figure out the advanced controls during the fight.

The hard part was figuring out to make sure you dodged Liquids doom fist. Fuck that move. But I did enjoy 'discovering' the bit of depth the fighting did have.

Passive

06-18-2008, 08:16 AM

Why are there so many MGS4 threads? O.o

Red_Eyes

06-18-2008, 08:42 AM

As for another sequel, maybe a Metal Gear Aikiba. He's so cool. He's like, Captain Commando, with his dark sunglass. LOL.

Passive

06-18-2008, 08:50 AM

Akiba isn't a strong enough character. Sorry to say :P

Goki

06-18-2008, 09:26 AM

I finshed the game, I dont understand... Whats up with Liquid's Doppelganger.

I sincrely didnt understand the end of the game.

CreativeWriter

06-18-2008, 09:26 AM

Since this game had some anti-AI themes, JD and GW seeing war as a means of social control rather than an ethical/moral problem, I wonder if we couldn't have a Metal Gear Solid: Metal Gear (or something) where our protagonist is either 1) mostly AI/cyborg trying to reclaim humanity (Raiden) or 2) entirely AI, discovering the limits/benefits of newborn consciousness. Think Data from Star Trek in cyborg ninja getup. Since we just spent 40 hours or so critiquing artificial intelligence, it would make sense, thematically, to reverse field a bit--explore the first true artificial intelligence/personality growing out of the PMC/war economy (since that's a logical place for "thinking computers" to "evolve"). If MGS4 (and the MGS series) has been about technology (cloning, AI, nanomachines) threatening humanity, perhaps it's time for humanity to threaten newborn AI life. We might even have a relatively simple plot--AI finds itself conscious on the battlefield, must "sneak" to avoid former masters/creators/unsympathetic humans or other "enslaved" AIs... Like Snake, it would be in the AI's "nature" to kill, but "sneaking" would be an evolution of the AI's moral capacity. Do it Kojima...

The Valve people can also steal my idea (credit me please) for Portal 2 if they like ;).

LiquidEagle

06-18-2008, 11:57 AM

Best. Game. Ever.

Passive

06-18-2008, 01:47 PM

and always will be.

Segitz

06-18-2008, 02:08 PM

I finshed the game, I dont understand... Whats up with Liquid's Doppelganger.

I sincrely didnt understand the end of the game.

If I understood correctly, Ocelot is Liquids "mental" Doppelganger... He was supposed to be Liquid, but he wasn't... hence "only" Doppelganger

Passive

06-18-2008, 02:23 PM

To all intents and purposes, Liquid Ocelot and Ocelt are the very same.in a perfomance of superlative quailty, augmented by advanced psychotherapy, hypnotherapy and the nanos, Ocelot esentially became liquid, but still remained Ocelot on a concious level. He retains memories, emotions and personality that Liquid had but still has his own as Ocelot. He did this to fooll the Patiots, hiding his true intentions. Making the system think he was liquid.

curryking1

06-18-2008, 03:36 PM

This is my preferred ending.... I didn't like a lot about the ending. I did like how Snake has his last days though. That was very fitting to me.

I didn't really write this in a way that it's easier to read. I just tried to write it really fast in another MGS4 thread and I copy and pasted it here. :D

Up until you beat the shit out of Liquid and kill him, I thought everything was absolutely perfect about the story.

I didn't like how they turned Zero into the bad guy. I wish the bad guy was simply made the CIA and other Major US Agencies which work above the government.

My ideal ending was this....

Meryl realises she still loves Snake after her nanomachines are gone (which would be in a sense of 'becoming a mother,' as starting a family with someone, unreasonable, because nanomachines only let people do the most logical and reasonable thing I guess) and leaves with Otacon, Sunny and Snake all together.

As you can see I couldn't care any less about the Meryl Johnny thing. The scene in Outer Haven was cool, but I think it should've stopped there and Meryl goes back with Snake. This is my Final Fantasy/Disney Movie perfect ending mindset working here and I think it would've been way more awesome.

I like how Jack got back with Rose, although the scene was kind of poorly done and that bothered me. Why? Because the entire game was absolutely perfect pretty much until after you kill Liquid and his spirit leaves Ocelot.

Also, Donald Anderson is not Sigint, and Paramedic didn't help create the Patriots either. Patriots was completely a CIA + US Agency thing to make the whole world secure. Zero, Big Boss, Sigint, Paramedic, Ocelot all found this out and fully understood The Boss' will from the after being foiled by Solid Snake a second time in Metal Gear 2. Liquid takes Ocelot's body and is the only one who does not understand The Boss' will so he does his stuff. Big Boss manages to escape after Metal Gear Solid 2 because they think Solidus' body is hidden and because his body is made frmo other people's body parts, and he comes back in the end to tell Snake all of this once the AI is destroyed. He couldn't before come to Snake as being interacting with him would screw them both over with the virus Snake is carrying I guess.

Zero and Big Boss cooperated, Zero, Paramedic, Sigint all died fighting in between Metal Gear 2 and Metal Gear Solid. Big Boss escapes the entire world and comes back after you have destroyed the AI system.

I think my ending is much better. :D

Edit - I wish they made Eva hotter. I know she's old, but who really needs the complete bounds of age. :(

Edit 2 - Laughing Octopus was the hottest Beauty by far.

Edit 3 - This game is the ***king shit.

LaLiLuLeLo

06-18-2008, 04:43 PM

Curryking your ending isn't better at all, it's just things that you naturally expected out of the characters based on your own tastes. But I respectfully disagree.

Everyone point and laugh at curryking.

Nameless

06-18-2008, 05:11 PM

LaLiLuLeLo

06-18-2008, 05:26 PM

^^ I have to agree it would have been nice to see Snake actually get "the girl" at the end. It did not have the be Meryl, but at least have him get something more instead of Hal & Sunny... The whole Old Snake and Big Mama deal was kind of creepy considering in a way that was his mama. :huh:

If you gave Old Snake some kind of love interest it would have to be Meryl, because Hal got to tap Naomi... Unless they introduced a new character or let Snake walk into the sunset with one of the BBs if you choose to let them live after the battle.

God why does everyone feel like Snake HAS to fall in love or have a girl at his side at the end? It wouldn't have fit his character at all! Sure in MGS1, but in this one? He's done with that. That's not how things are anymore, and he's only got a year to live, tops. Snake is not the kind of person to invest himself that deeply into a woman, which is why he just keeps Otacon around for company, as a best friend, and he puts up with Sunny because Otacon has to take care of her. He's not exactly nice to the girl, didja notice?
Trying to wedge a love story into the plot, as jam-packed as it already is, would have been a fucking disaster, and it would not have fit the tone of the game.

Nameless, to address your concern in particular, his relationship with Big Mama wasn't really sexual in any way. She went on repeatedly about how she gave birth to him and was his mother, and he was born like any other child regardless of his nature, and how she loved his father. It was definitely more a mother and son relationship, in the short capacity that it could be one (they just met after all), I don't see how you could take it as a, 'Hey I'm old, you're old, lets have old people sex when this is over with!

Seriously.:doh:

curryking1

06-18-2008, 05:27 PM

Sephiroth_VII

06-18-2008, 05:31 PM

Just one thing.

Did people actually like the last boss fight. Apart from having epic presentation, the gameplay for that was shit. I guess being really fond of fighting games makes me bias, but the system for that was bleh. I would have rather just had a gun battle, really.
After reading the boss walkthrough at GameFaqs, I found out that there were quite a few advanced moves for the fist fight which I never used. You can find them by pressing SELECT. Sure, it's not TEKKEN, but still quite good.
^^ I have to agree it would have been nice to see Snake actually get "the girl" at the end. It did not have the be Meryl, but at least have him get something more instead of Hal & Sunny... The whole Old Snake and Big Mama deal was kind of creepy considering in a way that was his mama. :huh:

If you gave Old Snake some kind of love interest it would have to be Meryl, because Hal got to tap Naomi... Unless they introduced a new character or let Snake walk into the sunset with one of the BBs if you choose to let them live after the battle.
Snake was dieing. He'll probably be dead no more than a few months after the ending, so giving him a love interest really isn't realistic. He probably wouldn't accept her anyway, because he'd be afraid of ruining her life with his death :2cents:
Grrrr!!!

Snake doesn't need to get the girl. But Meryl loves Solid Snake. End story. The nanomachines made her hate him at the beginning!! TEh NANOMACHIENS!

RRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

Accoriding to the document of MGS2, a lot of shit happened between Snake and Meryl after Shadow Moses. It just didn't work out.

Nameless

06-18-2008, 05:34 PM

^^^ I'm not taking it to that extreme, but at the end of Act III when Johnny was holding Meryl you could see Snake holding Big Mama in the same scene and then Big Mama looked at Snake and had a flash back to the original Snake it was just a little odd IMO. It was nothing big and I thought the addition of Big Mama was brilliant from a story perspective.

curryking1

06-18-2008, 05:35 PM

I dunno, that's just my preference. The nanomachiens fucked up their relationship. At the end, the nanomachines leave - Meryl still feels love for Snake through what they've been through together.

And most important of all, the nanomachines are what make people more efficient and reasonable. Therefore Meryl, after losing the nanomachines, does the unreasonable thing, yet it is still what represents what she truly wants even if it's unreasonable.

THAT IS MY CONCLUSION! MERYL LEAVES WITH SNAKE AT THE END TO SEE HIM DIE! No one can change my mind! :D

I really wish I picked up all those damn statues btw... I ***king stamina killed all the bosses, but I didn't know they dropped items... why can't they just give the damn statues to you :(

LaLiLuLeLo

06-18-2008, 05:47 PM

Grrrr!!!

Snake doesn't need to get the girl. But Meryl loves Solid Snake. End story. The nanomachines made her hate him at the beginning!! TEh NANOMACHIENS!

RRRRRRRRRRRR!!!! they didn't need to have stupiud old people sex. It was just about Meryl being there to see Snake off into death. Just like Otacon, who was there with Snake all the time, sees Snake to the end.

In the same way...

I should ask you... why did Kojima feel the need to make Meryl fall in love with someone? I mean ***k!?! Why change it up!!! God!! I can't believe he did that... makes me so sad... at least it fits in with the rest of the Solid Snake story... that he has a hard life.

But still! Why make Meryl and Johnny marry?! I totally didn't understand what Kojima was trying to say there!?!? WTF?

What is that supposed to fucking mean!? What theme is that about?!

I was so fucking happy when Johnny fell off the damn Outer Haven ship! Why couldn't he have just died! BASTARD! FUCKING BASTARD!

Snake and Meryl's relationship after MGS1 ended bitterly. The hell does that have to do with Nanomachines?? Nanomachines weren't regulating her feelings towards Snake.
And Meryl and Johnny? Just goes back to how love can bloom on the battlefield. Johnny went super sweet after Act 3. Love that guy! He saved Meryl's life, and started holding his own! And he had a striking resemblance to Snake if I do say so myself.

^^^ I'm not taking it to that extreme, but at the end of Act III when Johnny was holding Meryl you could see Snake holding Big Mama in the same scene and then Big Mama looked at Snake and had a flash back to the original Snake it was just a little odd IMO. It was nothing big and I thought the addition of Big Mama was brilliant from a story perspective.

Cuz...maybe...he looks JUST FUCKING LIKE HIM?! :laugh:

curryking1

06-18-2008, 05:55 PM

Didn't Snake and Meryl ride off into the sunset at the end of MGS1?!?!? Something happened after I guess.... but ***k that! Nothing happened after if I didn't play it or read it... :(

And Meryl and Johnny? Just goes back to how love can bloom on the battlefield.

But Snake and Meryl did it first! WHY!? WHY GOD/KOJIMA! WHY!?!?!!?

Johnny went super sweet after Act 3. Love that guy! He saved Meryl's life, and started holding his own! And he had a striking resemblance to Snake if I do say so myself.

That was so GAY! WTF WAS THAT! I was actually thoroughly annoyed by everything that Johnny did after that point. I thought that was completely a waste of good time and space.

Did anyone else see in the credits btw... Voice of God = Kojima hahahha. When was Voice of God used or was that completely a joke just for the credits??

Cuz...maybe...he looks JUST FUCKING LIKE HIM?!

Lol ya, that would make some sense :D

LaLiLuLeLo

06-18-2008, 05:58 PM

Didn't Snake and Meryl ride off into the sunset at the end of MGS1?!?!?

You're not listening

BETWEEN MGS1 AND 2, they break up. It doesn't work out. Snake disappears and becomes an alcoholic, until him and Otacon create Philanthropy.

KEEP UP.

curryking1

06-18-2008, 05:59 PM

Rrrr! Why Meryl! Why God! Why Kojima!

Yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!?!?!?!? Go Back To Snake You Stupid Girl! I'm so sad :(:(:(:(:(:(

Get over the fights! Snake stopped smoking and drinking! Come on!! You still love him Meryl! WHY! :(:(:(:(:(

You're not listening

Man I totally put in my post 'I guess something happened after that' before you replied! Y U SO MEAN!?

LaLiLuLeLo

06-18-2008, 06:00 PM

Rrrr! Why Meryl! Why God! Why Kojima!

Yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!?!?!?!? Go Back To Snake You Stupid Girl!

Man I totally put in my post 'I guess something happened after that.' Y U SO MEAN!?

HAHAHAHA PITIFUL CREATURE! YOUR ANGUISH SUSTAINS ME!!!!

curryking1

06-18-2008, 06:02 PM

Every relationship has it's bumps... :(

This game sucks! Lol j/k, forgive me God.

masteratt

06-18-2008, 06:04 PM

ENOUGH!

curryking1

06-18-2008, 06:46 PM

RRRRRRRRRRRRR!

RAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

rrrrr....rrr.... rrr....r...

Done. :D

masteratt

06-18-2008, 06:50 PM

You so craaaaaaaaaazey.

And you can be as crazy as you want but never EVER, even jokingly, say a bad thing about Hideo or any of the MGS games (except MGS2 ¬_¬).

curryking1

06-18-2008, 07:36 PM

Don't even talk any ***t about MGS2!

Anger...... rising!!!

Segitz

06-18-2008, 07:43 PM

Johnny went super sweet after Act 3. Love that guy! He saved Meryl's life, and started holding his own! And he had a striking resemblance to Snake if I do say so myself.

THAT IS EXACTLY what I thought, when I first saw him in Act 3. If Kojima and the rest play it out right, I could see a Metal Gear "Akiba"... (although the name sounds ... not good)

But I must say, the firefight in Act 5 bore a striking resemblance to the Maelstrom fight of PotC 3... And I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now... it's just... stupid imho (stupid writing!)

chartwel

06-18-2008, 08:23 PM

in the end, i though meryl was kind of shitty to snake when she shouldnt have been and never did say sorry. that was my only problem.

and kojima did a hell of a job bringing back all the characters and truly ending an incredible saga. i couldnt be more happy with how the storyline resolutions turned out.

Sephiroth_VII

06-18-2008, 08:34 PM

Why hasn't this been moved to the MGS4 forum yet?

Hisham

06-18-2008, 08:38 PM

Curry, remember a part of a healthy relationship is acutally being attracted to somebody. After seeing Snake the way he was, do you think she would still be attracted to him. There love wasn't that strong afterwards (from after MGS1 onwards) and they pretty much developed back into a mentor, student thing by the end of the game. And I agree it isn't in Snakes character to settle down with somebody knowning he will die in a half a year's time. He would shoulder that burden himself, and wouldn't want to hurt anybody he loves.

THAT is why he doesn't end up with a women.

Why isn't this in the Metal Gear forum?

Segitz

06-18-2008, 10:56 PM

Has anyone tried to wear the face camos in cutscenes... Next playthru, I will either wear young snakes or Campbells masks when encountering Meryl^^ I really hope, they react differently (like Volgin in 3), depending on what you wear...

masteratt

06-18-2008, 11:00 PM

I wore the facecamo by accident when you were in Drebin's vehicle and being attacked by Gekkos.
It was the worst cut-scene ever due to Snake not being Snake and jus this masked guy and no, no-one reacted in that one.
And I didn't read anything about anyone reacting to your clothing in cut-scenes do dunno if it's in there.

curryking1

06-18-2008, 11:22 PM

Curry, remember a part of a healthy relationship is acutally being attracted to somebody.

Ya but you're forgetting a very important thing!

Everybody LOVES SOLID SNAKE.

That's right... I said it...

I'm gonna use Young Snake's face the whole game (except when I need the face camo I think) when I try to get The Boss medal lol.

I didn't like how Snake kept his Face Camo on in cutscenes either. I had him wearing the mask at the end of Act 2 and I was like... damn I just messed up part of the end of Act 2 lol.

(I find it absolutely insane that you can spot the three rolly guys following you and the guy in Act 3. That's freaking awesome. I didn't do it myself but damn... I saw those pics... nuts)

masteratt

06-18-2008, 11:27 PM

It just occured to me, why do we have the Walkie-Talkie transmitter?

He gives it to us so we can intercept PMC radio and find Resistance locations but as soon as Act3 starts, you find him anyway lol

curryking1

06-18-2008, 11:28 PM

It's if you screw up and have to find him again.

Sephiroth_VII

06-18-2008, 11:31 PM

If you screw up and have to find him again, that's what it's for.

...what?

Hisham

06-18-2008, 11:38 PM

Why are you guys using spoilers...

This is the thread we have to NOT use spoilers.

rockleex

06-18-2008, 11:48 PM

Don't use spoilers

solidsnakejej

06-19-2008, 12:35 AM

I want to know if anyone else change controller ports for the mantis fight?

Hisham

06-19-2008, 12:39 AM

I think almost everyone did that.

Curry, love =/= attraction. Remember that.

Passive

06-19-2008, 02:29 AM

man this thread has gone to shit -.- wtf?

no offence but anyone who says snake should have "got the girl" is a tool bag. He's got no need, wanting or even time for love anymore and he knows it. Meryl stopped loving him a long time ago, she still looks up to him and sees him as a great soldier but thats about as far as it goes.

curryking1

06-19-2008, 03:04 AM

Curry, love =/= attraction. Remember that.

You are talking to my Bollywood!

Main Boy + Main Girl = love and ride into the sunset in expensive car all the time!

I think I've gotten over my hating on Meryl and Johnny anyway lol.

LaLiLuLeLo

06-19-2008, 03:50 AM

It's funny if you wear the FaceCamo during a cutscene and Snake puts a cigarette in his mouth, he just has a cig sticking straight in his mask. Hahaha...

Passive

06-19-2008, 03:54 AM

haha! yeah i noticed that. I try not to wear the face camo if a cutscene is coming up though.

HPK

06-19-2008, 07:01 AM

Kind of going back to "Snake getting the girl" subtopic. Snake has no interest in maintaining a relationship or anything along those lines. Psycho Mantis pointed that out back in MGS1. While Meryl may still have some feelings towards Snake, he's a somewhat different person. Not to mention he only has a few months left to live.
I thought it was kinda lame that the in-joke character of the series was made into an actual character, but he fits in. Not to mention, as LaLi said, he bears a striking resemblence to a younger Solid Snake (and a less battle-hardened one).

But yeah, the game was a completely awesome experience. I have to say, though, the Vamp fight really pissed me off at first. I was playing it early in the morning and I had no friggin' idea as to what to do. Then I figured it out and said DURRRRRRR.
Kind of anticlimatic, though. His death could've been a bit better. But that didn't matter since piloting REX was my favorite part of the game. That battle with RAY was fucking sweet. The Liquid battle was pretty cool too, but that second phase really pissed me off. Stupid power lunge....I also had the Big Boss thing spoiled for me before I even played the game. I was hoping it was just another lie from the Internet, but it was all true.

Oh, and I changed controller connections in the Mantis fight. I lol'd.

masonite

06-19-2008, 09:58 AM

As for another sequel, maybe a Metal Gear Aikiba. He's so cool. He's like, Captain Commando, with his dark sunglass. LOL.

i was actually thinking the same thing. He starts off pretty weak, but becomes a very strong character towards the end, and half the reason he seemed so shit was because he didn't have the nanos to keep him in synch with those other tards. I honestly cringed at the start every time he came on screen, but yeh...at the end, i could see him becoming hardened (except for when he went off the catapult and smacked into the side of arsenal gear, i almost pissed myself when i saw that.... lol).

the other advantage of akiba is that they managed to make him quite a prominent character throughout the entire game, and a memorable one, whilst giving absolutely no background info whatsoever - meaning theres a whole plot that could possibly be woven around him. And i think its fair to say that for all his shortcomings, he's still more likeable than raiden in mgs2.

the other possibility is Raiden coming back - although (extremely) unlikely, i thought it was unlikely he'd survive after the first vamp fight, as well as being crushed by arsenal gear, but he came back. And why would they bother putting his arms back on if he wasn't going to throw swords and shit at people in the future? i mean really, thats all they're there for.

As for snake getting the girl, first of all he's sterile - theres no point in snake going with a girl cos he can't reporduce. Secondly, the guy has zero people skills, as he's lived on the battlefield. and Thirdly, he's technically geriatric. He's about to die. Why would she try and marry him? to inherit his drebin points?

D3adcell

06-19-2008, 12:15 PM

I just beat this game tonight, holy shit it was amazing. Everything I dreamt it could have been.

The last act was amazing, the fight with liquid was so awesome and really well presented.

As for the mantis boss fight, i didn't know you could switch controller ports on the ps3 since its wireless and I just got the system so had no idea how to do that. So instead I just used the syringe naoimi gives you and supress the nanomachines in my body so i could aim at her.

curryking1

06-19-2008, 03:03 PM

Press the PS button to go a menu, select controller settings, and the reassign controller.

And you have to use the nanomachines suppressant no matter what. Otacon tells you off if you change controllers. You won't be able to control Snake on a port other than 1.

HPK

06-19-2008, 07:03 PM

Did anyone use the DualShock 3 controller during the Mantis fight? The Psycho Mantis bit afterwards was pretty funny if you used it.

I plan on testing out those dolls on the second (well, third, technically) playthrough.

curryking1

06-19-2008, 09:07 PM

Ya I still have to try out the dolls on characters other than Mantis. I have both of them on my second playthrough. I'll screw around with them soon enough.

Just beat Laughing Octopus on Extreme as a stunkill for the main fight... I needed the statue. I stun killed her on hard no problem (you can buy tranq. ammo and stun nades...) but I missed the statue because I didn't know they dropped them >.>

Used Shotgun (V. Ring ammo) and Stun Grenades. Thank God they give you ammo for both in the level too. There's also Pistol Tranq. Ammo in the level too. Used up about 30 or so V. Ring... a few stun nades.... to beat the person. Damn, frigging intense fight...

CreativeWriter

06-20-2008, 02:23 AM

Did anyone use the DualShock 3 controller during the Mantis fight? The Psycho Mantis bit afterwards was pretty funny if you used it.

I couldn't understand what he was saying half the time, but I figured it was Mantis trying to toy with you but discovering your system had no memory cards/no wired controller. Did I miss anything?

curryking1

06-20-2008, 02:58 AM

Nope!

That's why I had cutscene subs on, just in case there were characters I couldn't understand... lol.

It wasn't about wired controller though. Psycho only mentions about the Memory Cards and the Rumble I think.

LiquidEagle

06-20-2008, 03:16 AM

Listening to the soundtrack right now... so amazing.

HPK

06-20-2008, 06:29 AM

I couldn't understand what he was saying half the time, but I figured it was Mantis trying to toy with you but discovering your system had no memory cards/no wired controller. Did I miss anything?

Yeah. The DualShock 3 has rumble. If you use it, he yells "RUMBLE IS BACK!"

masonite

06-20-2008, 09:24 AM

anyone know how to get the statue of laughing octopus? i stunned her, went back, but i can't get back in the ressearch lab.

Also, does the alert count when you fight the frogs in that section?

Passive

06-20-2008, 10:13 AM

dont know.

and yes.

masonite

06-20-2008, 10:15 AM

damn.

and fuck.

curryking1

06-20-2008, 02:34 PM

You have to stun kill her while you're doing the major fight (when she's in the suit).

When you finally stun kill her and her suit comes off, you enter the next scene of her walking around and following you.

You must get the Laughing Octopus Statue during that time. It is on one of the beds in the center of the Research Lab. I believe it's the smallest room which is adjacent to room where the big MRI-like machine is.

Alerts are always on except when you are fighting the Frogs with Meryl, fighting Laughing Octopus (and only when actually fighting Laughing Octopus), fighting Raging Raven, fighting Screaming Mantis, fighting Vamp, and everything after the long tube leading to the Microwave oven.

I think that's all of them. Note when fighting Crying Wolf there are Frogs with her the entire battle. If any Frog sees you an alert will be racked up on your stats. If Crying Wolf sees you it is not a problem.

Kills on soldiers at any point in the game always count as kills.

The only thing I don't know is if not stun killing bosses count (while they are in their suits, or not stun killing Vamp) as kills.

Passive

06-20-2008, 03:55 PM

you have to stun the bosses then tranq them you can't kill them. the ONLY kill you can get is ocelot. Thats all and the FROGS just before the octopus fight come in on caution mode, you can get under the bed really really fast and not alert them. takes speed and practice.

curryking1

06-20-2008, 04:01 PM

masonite

06-20-2008, 04:37 PM

Sephiroth_VII

06-20-2008, 06:50 PM

That's what I did the first time too xD. Felt a little cheap though, so I manned up and went out to find her in my second playthrough.

Jay Gee

06-20-2008, 08:23 PM

Shit I dunno if I'll have enough V. Ring and Tranq. ammo for the next bosses.... shiaattt.

I've stun killed everything so far, stopped after the Laughing Octopus battle. 1:32 or something right now.

***k! I wish you could reg. ammo Vamp... I mean you're not even the one who actually kills him :(

True, but the fun lies in killing him over and over and over and over. It's not frustrating, it's fucking SATISFYING. Everytime he resurrects and starts talking shit, I let my M40 and P90 talk shit back.

Sephiroth_VII

06-20-2008, 10:00 PM

^Not fun when you're trying to stamina kill all bosses on your first go...

Segitz

06-21-2008, 12:40 AM

^Not fun when you're trying to stamina kill all bosses on your first go...

I actually didn't have much of a problem... I never bought any weapons though, thus I could buy ammo en masse^^

Hisham

06-21-2008, 01:43 AM

On extreme, you can't buy any tranq gun ammo though.

So a no kill run through is hard because of that.

curryking1

06-21-2008, 01:53 AM

Ya Passive, I used the same strategy. Immediately go for under the bed at the beginning for the Frogs before Octopus.

As long as you don't hit that jar beside the bed, the first four continue to the exact same spot right in front of you in a door way for a nice quadruple stun-nade ownage :D

^Not fun when you're trying to stamina kill all bosses on your first go...

It's not that hard. Even Vamp was mad easy. The only thing to beware is his knives, but you can easily keep those at a minimum by knocking him down out of routine with a shotgun or explosive round.

Even the Mosin Nagant will knock Vamp down being with the force of a sniper rifle. The Mosin Nagant does insane stun damage as well.

Yeh the crying wolf battle i find pretty easy, i just sit under that APC thing and i can get her from there (along with any frogs that get too close).

I found chasing after her much easier actually. As soon as I got a hint of an enemy Frog nearby I just stunned and continued.

She leaves footprints to follow as well so the battle seems like it can finish rather fast as long as you have the ammo to do it.

And I need to find some damn ammo... I havne't continued SP but I think my stun ammo consists of very few stun nades, 20 or 30 tranq. pistol ammo, 20 V Ring... and that's it... ran out of grenade launcher stun nades :(:(:(

AC!D

06-21-2008, 06:57 PM

Really Awesome game. Best game i have ever played. From the great music of Harry and Nobu to the artwork of shinkawa and Wood to the amazing cutscenes and awesome gameplay. The are not enough superlatives to describe this game. Is it just me or is this the best looking game this gen yet?

Just wanted ask you guys a couple of questions about the PMC battles.
The first one was easy enough and i helped the rebels win but later when i sneaked through the dark underground tunnels they attacked me why?

Secondly after these events i couldnt change the course of any other PMC VS REBEL battles even after taking down snipers, aboyt 20 choppers, vehicles and about 100 constantly re-spawning PMC soldiers ( The respawning NPC's that spawned right infront of my character really put me off and took me out of the game but thats just one negative for me in a perfect game ). So i guess my question would be did i miss out on some objectives to help the rebels win or were those wars just for show and meant for you to sneak by as per usual?

Final question would be to ask if anyone actually helped the PMC soldiers against the the rebels i.e do they not shoot at you in the next part of the level and what rewards do you get from them if you take their side? As a matter of fact i didnt get any rewards for helping the rebels win the first battle either why is that?

WOW just goes to show the amazing replay value this game has!

curryking1

06-21-2008, 07:34 PM

Just wanted ask you guys a couple of questions about the PMC battles. The first one was easy enough and i helped the rebels win but later when i sneaked through the dark underground tunnels they attacked me why?

Just stand still until they check you out. They can't see you well in the underground tunnel and they probably haven't gotten to know you well enough yet.

If they don't already love you at that point.... when they see you, just stand still, let a rebel check you out, and he will give you the go ahead to let you pass. Alternatively you can avoid running into them in the tunnel by sneaking around them to speed things up.

Secondly after these events i couldnt change the course of any other PMC VS REBEL battles even after taking down snipers, aboyt 20 choppers, vehicles and about 100 constantly re-spawning PMC soldiers ( The respawning NPC's that spawned right infront of my character really put me off and took me out of the game but thats just one negative for me in a perfect game ).

Keep moving forward while helping them out.

Moving forward and taking out enemies will bring the rebels forward. Some areas aren't entered by the Rebels I don't think also (e.g. the last few areas in Act 2).

Anyway the rationale is that the game wants you to keep moving forward with at least some difficulty and not put the entire control of the battlefield solely in your hands. The whole 'in the middle of warzone' concept would also disappear if you could just destroy a battalion from a multinational-like funded high tech army all by yourself.

Being able to do something like that would kind of separate the game from the entire idea of the story. He's a snake, the PMCs are unstoppable war machines, etc etc etc.

Final question would be to ask if anyone actually helped the PMC soldiers against the the rebels i.e do they not shoot at you in the next part of the level and what rewards do you get from them if you take their side? As a matter of fact i didnt get any rewards for helping the rebels win the first battle either why is that?

Again, major concept of the game... Snake isn't there to partner with the PMCs. The whole idea of Snake's mission is that he isn't supposed to waste time trying to take on PMCs directly and act as a one-man-army. He's going through these places to get to the source.

You can choose to help individuals while you pass them by. If you give them rations often they will eventually warm up to you more and more. I think you also get affection if they see you stun or kill enemies while they can see you. Anyway, eventually next time you give them an item they will return with a piece of equipment or ammo or music or something.

AC!D

06-21-2008, 07:56 PM

Just stand still until they check you out. They can't see you well in the underground tunnel and they probably haven't gotten to know you well enough yet.

If they don't already love you at that point.... when they see you, just stand still, let a rebel check you out, and he will give you the go ahead to let you pass. Alternatively you can avoid running into them in the tunnel by sneaking around them to speed things up.

Keep moving forward while helping them out.

Moving forward and taking out enemies will bring the rebels forward. Some areas aren't entered by the Rebels I don't think also (e.g. the last few areas in Act 2).

Anyway the rationale is that the game wants you to keep moving forward with at least some difficulty and not put the entire control of the battlefield solely in your hands. The whole 'in the middle of warzone' concept would also disappear if you could just destroy a battalion from a multinational-like funded high tech army all by yourself.

Being able to do something like that would kind of separate the game from the entire idea of the story. He's a snake, the PMCs are unstoppable war machines, etc etc etc.

Again, major concept of the game... Snake isn't there to partner with the PMCs. The whole idea of Snake's mission is that he isn't supposed to waste time trying to take on PMCs directly and act as a one-man-army. He's going through these places to get to the source.

You can choose to help individuals while you pass them by. If you give them rations often they will eventually warm up to you more and more. I think you also get affection if they see you stun or kill enemies while they can see you. Anyway, eventually next time you give them an item they will return with a piece of equipment or ammo or music or something.

Thanks for the reply.

How do you give rebels rations and food do you just walk up to them and the context triangle button appears or is there something else you have to do?

On the question about the NPC's didnt kojima say you can choose either side with the Militia giving you better weapons and wont this speed up your movement to your objective if they are on your side?

curryking1

06-21-2008, 08:21 PM

Walk up to them with a ration/regain/noodles item equipped and the context triangle will appear.

You might be able to give more types of items, those are the only ones I know that work.

On the question about the NPC's didnt kojima say you can choose either side with the Militia giving you better weapons and wont this speed up your movement to your objective if they are on your side?

Ya you can choose to be friendly towards the Rebels. If you help them to their goal, they will be present in further areas. In certain areas how you are involved with the Rebels may affect the circumstances of areas ahead of you.

Example in Act 2, if you don't help the Rebels take the Power Station, the next 2 areas will be riddled with PMC troops. If you do help the Rebels, one or both of the next paths will be only filled with Rebel friendlies who you may just walk by instead without worrying about being seen.

Hisham

06-21-2008, 09:48 PM

Also remember not be wearing the facecamo. They will attack you regardless if you are wearing the face camo. If you are wearing the facecamo, they don't recognize you and start attacking you as if you were an enemy.

I found this out the hard way haha.

curryking1

06-21-2008, 10:49 PM

Oh really? Lol, that's nuts, nice touch. Makes sense, they wouldn't be able to recognize a rock pattern as Snake... lol.

Man, I have to try out the character and boss face camos on the rebels actually. I wonder how they will react to all of the Beauty camos lol. Hopefully it'll be something funny like them freaking out lol. My guess is though it will just be an alert trigger or something maybe.

Btw, a lot of the music in the game has a lot of cool effects while you play.

Apparently if you play the Rock Me Baby song (and the other Healing Radio tunes from MGS3, like Sailor and stuff) while eating a ration, it increased the life returned to Snake lol.

I just read the MGS4 Love Theme makes soldiers cry when you hold them hahaha.

HPK

06-22-2008, 08:19 PM

^they don't freak out if you wear the beauty masks. I tried messing around with those and nothing of interest happened.

Though I did have a lot of good laughs running around as Otacon in the Middle Eastern garb with a railgun.

Oh, I also get a good laugh from using the Mk II/III to shock Snake.

curryking1

06-22-2008, 09:42 PM

Wow that just gave me an awesome idea... I should use the Mk III to wipe out the Frogs while I'm fighting Crying Wolf. Maybe I should've even done that before the Laughing Octopus fight...

I'll see how it works when I get there lol. I should actually in general use the Mk III more to knock people out. I rarely used it on my first play thru.

That should actually save nice amounts of tranq. ammo in general...

HPK

06-23-2008, 12:42 AM

Yeah, but you gotta be sneaky with the Mk. II/III because it'll still net you alerts if you get caught with it.

But yeah, I didn't really use a lot of the items or weapons during my first playthrough. I suppose that's why the Vamp fight took me a while to figure out: I completely forgot about the Syringe item.

curryking1

06-23-2008, 12:51 AM

That fight took me a long time simply because I didn't realise you had to kill him like 4 times before you could grab him to inject it lol. I was like 'Why can't I grab him! OMG!' And the first few times he was owning me because I wasn't used to dodging his attacks lol.

I really enjoyed these two fights especially though, the Screaming Mantis and Vamp battles. The fact that you go into the fight with not much of a hint on how to defeat the boss makes it so much more intense. The Vamp one maybe was more obvious but it was equally as mind numbing for me because I never used the syringe before either (lol) and wasn't so interested in asking Otacon or someone on what to do :P

Even the Laughing Octopus one though also... that one felt very intense simply because it was the first PS3 MGS boss and I wasn't sure what to expect lol. Lots of key moments during the battle too that made it interesting. The tight environment was really well established as well, very awesome. That girl is wild... :P

I think the bosses I wasn't that keen on were Raging Raven and Crying Wolf. Crying Wolf I enjoyed more though because it felt pretty intense with a giant wolf mecha thing trying to kick (step on) your ass.

Raging Raven I didn't feel was too memorable simply because there wasn't that much to remember. I beat him on my first try without any problems, even with tranq-ing.

The 'trying to see which one was him' was pretty cool but I felt that there weren't enough particular 'events' during the fight to really pick out that I found were cool. Otherwise it was because I just killed him too fast. He doesn't take too many Mosin Nagant rounds to take him down.

Didn't like Raging Raven's face either, I thought it was kind of odd looking. I think it was the shape or something. The girl in real life is prettier. Laughing Octopus was freaking hawt though.

P.S.

Is there a cutscene theatre in the game? It seems like there is none... because all the assets have to be cached to the HDD before entering a new act any time...

err_ok

06-23-2008, 01:45 AM

^ Cut scene theatre would be nice, i was hoping it would be in Mission Briefing but no love there.... I wanted to show friends some of the cool raiden bits :(

Hisham

06-23-2008, 07:11 AM

I stun killed laughing octopus on Big Boss Extreme with only the knife (except for the parts when she hid somewhere the knife couldn't get her. That was when I used the tranq gun).

God it was so hard lol. Took me like 3 hours.

Passive

06-23-2008, 07:16 AM

Curry... your posts are too long -.- lol

I have to skim dammit.. SKIM!!

AC!D

06-23-2008, 08:59 PM

LiquidEagle

06-23-2008, 10:31 PM

Anyone else feel kinda weird that by the end of the game Solid Snake appears to have been the bad guy through the series being manipulated by the patriots and having to be manipulated by Ocelot and Naomi to actually destroy the patriot AI's in MGS4?

I don't see Snake as the bad guy at all. In the end he still did what nobody else could, he's still very much the legendary soldier and hero for all that he sacrificed and endured. Just think back to the speech Snake gave Raiden at the end of MGS2 -- whether or not certain things were "real," all the feelings he thought through them, everything they experienced first-hand, those feelings are real and to them it was very much real.

He wasn't necessarily manipulated by the Patriots and forced to be manipulated by Ocelot & Naomi, he was above suspicion by the Patriots since they thought he was doing them a favour, so that was the perfect way for Ocelot & crew to lead him to fulfill his destiny.

Sephiroth_VII

06-23-2008, 10:33 PM

Yep. ISN'T IT FUNNY!?

But really, Snake has always been manipulated by The Patriots...

HPK

06-23-2008, 10:42 PM

I always thought of Snake to be the good guy, but his allies were total jerks and never told him everything he needed to know...except for Raiden. he just cried a lot, even as a robot.

I think they should've added a bonus feature so we could all play as Snake in his final days. You know, exploring the world...probably going to the beach and scamming chicks.

masteratt

06-23-2008, 10:49 PM

I wouldn't mind if next MGS is a game like that.
Just chillaxing as Snake, that'll be cool.

And then some funny bits where he feels like a soldier again so he sneaks in and out of a grocery store after he grabs his skimmed milk.

Passive

06-23-2008, 11:56 PM

MGS5: Escape from the Nursing Home

On another note, HPK, you go through what Raiden has and see how you deal :P

HPK

06-24-2008, 12:28 AM

MGS5: Escape from the Nursing Home

On another note, HPK, you go through what Raiden has and see how you deal :P

Gotta dodge Metal Gear Bedpan. It can shoot nukes.

I probably wouldn't mind so much about going through what Raiden had to go through. Child soldier? Meh. Slightly confusing and long MGS2 ending? Meh. Cool robotic body parts and awesome sword skills? Why not? There's nothing to complain about there. Well, except for maybe the high heels.

All of my past problems would be easily forgotten once I got super powers.

AC!D

06-24-2008, 12:41 AM

I don't see Snake as the bad guy at all. In the end he still did what nobody else could, he's still very much the legendary soldier and hero for all that he sacrificed and endured. Just think back to the speech Snake gave Raiden at the end of MGS2 -- whether or not certain things were "real," all the feelings he thought through them, everything they experienced first-hand, those feelings are real and to them it was very much real.

He wasn't necessarily manipulated by the Patriots and forced to be manipulated by Ocelot & Naomi, he was above suspicion by the Patriots since they thought he was doing them a favour, so that was the perfect way for Ocelot & crew to lead him to fulfill his destiny.

I look at it this way first Solid tries to kill my favourite character in the series big boss in the first two games and finally does him in at the end of MGS4. In MGS1 he kills liquid who is just trying to do what his father and the original boss wanted which is essentially rid the world of the patriots stemming from the fallout betweeb Zero and big boss. Then he helps Raiden take out Solidus and clearly states in MGS4 that what Solidus feared has come to pass yet shows little remorse over the death of his brother even though he was probably also being manipulated by the patriots when he was recruiting kids like Raiden in Liberia which we find out was the case in MGS2. At the end of MGS4 he expects Ocelot to be dissapointed that his insurrection failed but he laughs at snake and basically tells him he is a moron because he wanted the patriots destroyed all along and then we have the Big bosses son vs the bosses son battle. So for me he has been manipulated by the patriots through all the previous games.

All im saying is that maybe liquid and Solidus were mis-guided and a little evil in reaching their goals probably due to how ruthlessly the patriots used them but damn Koj just made Solid Snake look clueless and also made him look like the patriots champion throughout all those games instead of our champion.

curryking1

06-24-2008, 01:49 AM

I look at it this way first Solid tries to kill my favourite character in the series big boss in the first two games and finally does him in at the end of MGS4.

Lol wut?

That's gotta be a major misinterpretation or I have just lost all my own marbles... I'm pretty sure Solid Snake and Big Boss finally make peace with one another.

Big Boss isn't killed by Solid.. wtf? Big Boss is killed by the virus in Solid's body.

In MGS1 he kills liquid who is just trying to do what his father and the original boss wanted which is essentially rid the world of the patriots stemming from the fallout betweeb Zero and big boss.

WUT!?

Liquid's interpretation is the worst interpretation of them all, what Big Boss used to want. The worst interpretation is Big Boss' interpretation. Big Boss' interpretation of The Boss' will is the absolute wrong interpretation.

Yes, Liquid and Solidus both had more or less reasonable intentions, but Solid Snake's path was always the greatest and the only one which could live up to The Boss' will.

Ocelot to be dissapointed that his insurrection failed but he laughs at snake and basically tells him he is a moron because he wanted the patriots destroyed all along and then we have the Big bosses son vs the bosses son battle.

made Solid Snake look clueless and also made him look like the patriots champion throughout all those games instead of our champion.

Ok hells naw!

First off... Ocelot doesn't exist anymore. It's not The Boss' son anymore. It's Liquid and only Liquid.

Secondly, Liquid would've kept JD for himself. With Liquid's knowledge about most everything and GW being on the ship he's sail boating around on, Liquid could've massacred GW, and thus JD (the control of warfare and forces) himself.

It was Solid Snake's and Otacon's pure goal and infinite determination to set the world right that let them achieve their goal.

All of Naomi's misinformation and 'lies' towards Philanthropy was all in the same pursuit (like Snake and Otacon) of atoning for one's own sins.

P.S. There might be some really poorly worded crap here but that's because I tried to write it really fast lol.

HPK

06-24-2008, 07:50 AM

^I disagree with Ocelot being completely gone. I mean, did you notice how he acting towards the game's end? He even turned into Ocelot in the third part of the battle. Not to mention the whole "finger salute" thing he did before passing. He even claimed to be Liquid's dopplegagger (sp)
Ocelot was there the entire time, he was just using Liquid's persona to fool everyone. He even went under hypnotheorpy and what-not to convince himself he was Liquid.

Of course, that doesn't explain how Ocelot got Liquid's voice in MGS2...I guess that never happened. Either way, Big Boss said it himself: Ocelot was all for taking down the Patriots to get Big Boss back. Liquid's plans died off when the FOXDIE kicked in.

curryking1

06-24-2008, 05:37 PM

AC!D

06-24-2008, 08:15 PM

That's gotta be a major misinterpretation or I have just lost all my own marbles... I'm pretty sure Solid Snake and Big Boss finally make peace with one another.

Big Boss isn't killed by Solid.. wtf? Big Boss is killed by the virus in Solid's body

My point was in the first 2 orginal games he was manipulated to take out big boss which he thought he did and even though the virus kills big boss Solid Snake still unknowingly kills him even if he didnt want to he still did with the virus so i dont get your interpretation cause kinowingly or unknowingly he still ends Big Boss.

Liquid's interpretation is the worst interpretation of them all, what Big Boss used to want. The worst interpretation is Big Boss' interpretation. Big Boss' interpretation of The Boss' will is the absolute wrong interpretation.

Yes, Liquid and Solidus both had more or less reasonable intentions, but Solid Snake's path was always the greatest and the only one which could live up to The Boss' will.

By liquids point in the game series timeline Big Boss had realized he screwed up and wants to rectify this by stopping zero or at this point in the timeline the patriot AI's. So by that reasoning we can assume Big Boss wanted to rectify his mistakes with regards to the interpretation of the Bosses will. So i assume that liquid wants to destroy the patriots for the same reasons as Big boss. Like i said maybe the way they went about doing it wasnt exactly good but they are essentially correct in trying to stop the patriots as was Solidus. After being created and used as they were surely its understanable they went evil or a little psycho and would have done everything in their power no matter how many ppl they killed to destroy the patriots. Hence my interpretation that Solid snake was just their puppet in stopping these plans.

Ok hells naw!

First off... Ocelot doesn't exist anymore. It's not The Boss' son anymore. It's Liquid and only Liquid.

Secondly, Liquid would've kept JD for himself. With Liquid's knowledge about most everything and GW being on the ship he's sail boating around on, Liquid could've massacred GW, and thus JD (the control of warfare and forces) himself.

It was Solid Snake's and Otacon's pure goal and infinite determination to set the world right that let them achieve their goal.

All of Naomi's misinformation and 'lies' towards Philanthropy was all in the same pursuit (like Snake and Otacon) of atoning for one's own sins.

P.S. There might be some really poorly worded crap here but that's because I tried to write it really fast lol.

I disagree with you again cause if you watch the cutscene right after snake destroys the AI Liquid is happy and laughing at snakes assumption that he wanted to control the patriots for himself. Liquid ocelots goal was always to achieve his fathers will and weather you dont believe that that was honourable i do but i guess thats open to interpretation. In the end my belief is all three clones werer trying to do the the right thing execpt Solid Snake didnt realize it until the end. Big Boss practically thanks Solid in the end for fixing his mistakes.

The last fight is also i guess open to interpretation cause i thought it was Kojimas way of paying homeage to the Boss vs Big Boss fight where their sons do battle i could be wrong though. The fight reminded me a lot of young Ocelot constantly trying to prove he was better than snake but it could be the other way around where the clones finally or liquid anyway try to prove who is better.

Then again maybe we are both wrong anyone else wanna put their two cents in ?

curryking1

06-24-2008, 08:36 PM

By liquids point in the game series timeline Big Boss had realized he screwed up and wants to rectify this by stopping zero or at this point in the timeline the patriot AI's. So by that reasoning we can assume Big Boss wanted to rectify his mistakes with regards to the interpretation of the Bosses will.

Uh no.

Big Boss 'just' came back into the real world. He 'just' had his epiphany. At the end of the game. Liquid dies before Big Boss has his epiphany. Big Boss just came back to life.

Liquid 'always' had the old Big Boss idea.

And even if Big Boss' mind changed before this time, Liquid didn't suddenly randomly read his mind, trust Big Boss, and set on a different path.

Liquid always stayed on the same path of taking the reigns of control for himself. He could've changed his path and done exactly what Solid Snake did, except much faster considering Liquid always was one step ahead of Solid in knowing what was going on.

Liquid didn't though and stayed on the path of Big Boss' original plan, the bad interpretation of the Boss' will.

Liquid always used the 'bad' Big Boss method, which included Nuclear Missiles.

Liquid is happy and laughing at snakes assumption that he wanted to control the patriots for himself. Liquid ocelots goal was always to achieve his fathers will and weather you dont believe that that was open honourable i do but i guess thats open to interpretation.

First off.. I already said both 'ends' by Big Boss and Liquid were more or less honourable. Their processes were just more 'evil' than Snake's path to achieving the goal.

Solid Snake's path was always the most honourable, but the reason he won in the end, even in the face of people betraying him and lying to him and manipulating him, is because his will was the strongest and so was the will of the people around him like Otacon and Naomi.

Secondly, Liquid laughs only because he's achieved his goal 'another way.' It's 'his goal' but not exactly the way he wanted it.

Liquid's way was always to favour his own way. Take JD, free himself from GW, and unite the world under one flag.

If Liquid wanted to do it Solid Snake's way don't you think he would've joined Solid Snake? Or competed with Solid Snake to do the exact same thing Solid Snake did?

Liquid always knew way more than Solid did, so if Liquid had the 'new intentions' he would've went and acted towards the 'better' path to freedom.

Liquid always wanted to do it Big Boss' way (the wrong and old Big Boss way).

My point was in the first 2 orginal games he was manipulated to take out big boss which he thought he did and even though the virus kills big boss Solid Snake still unknowingly kills him even if he didnt want to he still did with the virus so i dont get your interpretation cause kinowingly or unknowingly he still ends Big Boss.

Ok I know there's all this jazz about one person's interpretations and another person's interpretations but ***k no that is completely wrong. Solid Snake does not kill Big Boss. It doesn't even matter who knew what, it wasn't Snake who kills him.

Big Boss dies from Foxdie. Something Snake didn't start. Snake didn't approach Big Boss, Big Boss approached Snake.

Snake didn't kill Big Boss. That's as stupid as saying Harry Potter is about killing Death Eaters who represent HIV and AIDs or some stupid crap like that.

Snake doesn't end Big Boss. Foxdie and an era of war and control and nanomachines and viruses... fittingly kills Big Boss.

(don't think I'm trying to offend you btw, it's just the typing, I can't fluff up all that post to make it sound nice that's all lol)

AC!D

06-24-2008, 08:56 PM

I think Big boss would have realized his mistake long before MGS1 timeline dont you think like maybe when zero went crazy and made the clones after portable ops timeline and they split from each other?

Secondly if i give a girl HIV but i didnt know i had HIV i still essentially kill the girl its not the origins of the virus but me unknowingly killing her in the long run because im cluless and didnt get myself tested. Thats why i feel Solid is clueless from start to finish its like his just following orders without questoning the info like his brothers did. The patriots using Les Enfante Terribles (hope i spelled that right) and foxdie as their tools or Zeros tools against Big Boss and they both eventually do in Big Boss together in synergy not apart.

curryking1

06-24-2008, 09:10 PM

I think Big boss would have realized his mistake long before MGS1 timeline dont you think like maybe when zero went crazy and made the clones after portable ops timeline and they split from each other?

Ya, sure, he just didn't though. That's how the events in the story unfolded. He only realised his mistakes after his revival from being a vegetable at the end of MGS4.

Of course I think he 'should've' realised it sooner. And I personally wished he realised sooner and he wasn't a vegetable and helped Solid Snake take on Liquid and together defeat him, I thought that would've been kind of cool if he acted as 'Colonel' for Old Snake.

But he didn't. He was turned into a vegetable some time after Metal Gear 2. After he was revived from his vegetable-ism, he then had his epiphany and went to find Solid Snake.

You can't just choose how events unfolded because you 'think that how they could've been.' The story was made and that's what happened.

Big Boss realises his mistakes after the events of MGS4 which free him from being in a rather permanent state of rest.

Secondly if i give a girl HIV but i didnt know i had HIV i still essentially kill the girl its not the origins of the virus but me unknowingly killing her in the long run because im cluless and didnt get myself tested.

I agree you'd be the culprit. Maybe not 'completely' the culprit (maybe someone gave it to you only days ago? testing one self with today's medical standards isn't realistic to do very often), but in this scenario both parties willfully met with each other or even not.

But still, even in this situation, it's very possible under various circumstances no one is completely to blame. Maybe even no party involved directly is at all to blame.

And all around, that analogy is breaking a few fallacies.

One of those is the fallacy of a weak analogy. In a way the situations are similar, but not nearly similar enough to automatically and so easily justify the same conclusion.

Don't judge a situation based on 'but here if we do it, in a perfect crime scene where we can choose exactly what has happened, then it makes sense.' Big fallacy.

But anyways, I think Big Boss was killed by the fruits of sixty years of war and battles for ultimate control, not Solid Snake. And knowing how stubborn I am I won't be able to change my mind. ;)

AC!D

06-24-2008, 09:14 PM

Ok time to educate me maybe i missed this part and was tired during a cutscene or something but i thought the body that big mamma had was liquids real body where did i miss that big boss was a veggie. i was under the impression at the end of the game that he was busy finding zero?

curryking1

06-24-2008, 09:16 PM

AC!D

06-24-2008, 09:20 PM

The body that got fried was Solidus' body. Solidus was an exact copy of Big Boss so the system and most everyone was fooled into thinking it was Big Boss.

Big Boss I think reveals in the end game he was a veggie for the longest time. At the very end though, yea, he finds Zero after he's not a veggie.

Ok i will have to watch that cutscene again thanks for the info and if true then my theory of big boss trying to repent earlier in the timeline would be incorrect.

They seriously need to make three more games. One explaining exactly what happened when the patriots were formed and how zero and Big boss split leading to the clones project and Eva's role in it. They need to explain Ocelots role through all the games cause to me he seems to be the smartest out of all the characters manipulating the MGS characters like chess pieces on a board in all the MGS games and we seem to be missing a lot of info on him and how he was working with Eva. Finally how Sunny was rescued by raiden and again Eva's role in that. I still feel a lot of the pieces of this story are incomplete apart from Solids anyway.

LiquidEagle

06-24-2008, 10:02 PM

I was reading an article about Metal Gear's marketing when I came across this little tidbit at the very end of the paragraph (I wanted to give it context)

http://www.gamedaily.com/games/metal-gear-solid-4-guns-of-the-patriots/playstation-3/game-features/ad-watch-metal-gears-promotions-are-solid/?biz=1

Game marketers, however, are getting wise to this art of marketing games in a way that makes them seem larger than life. Halo 3's campaign went beyond marketing it to gamers, seeking instead mass visibility. Grand Theft Auto IV has proved out to be the biggest media release of all time. Now, it's Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots' time to shine. It's perhaps appropriate that its release be compared to that of Hollywood blockbusters, since the structure and story of the game resembles a movie epic far closer than most games ever achieve [Much to the dismay of some hardcore gamers, given the title's long cutscenes - Ed].

That felt like a very unnecessary comment to me, especially with an Editor just kinda throwing it into an article he/she didn't write, not to mention even the people who complained about MGS's cutscenes in the past absolutely loved them in 4 because they're so well done and compelling. I left a little comment for the editor on the site but I also wanted to spread this blunder so maybe some other people will get on his case :-p

" [Much to the dismay of some hardcore gamers, given the title's long cutscenes - Ed]. " This felt like a useless comment, given how amazing everybody says MGS4's cutscenes are. How about you let the author write the article, Editor?
Cheers,
- Matthew

curryking1

06-24-2008, 10:16 PM

LiquidEagle > l00ser editor, that's all I have to say about that.

And..

PWNED NUB!

Ok I'm done.

err_ok

06-24-2008, 10:35 PM

So much for getting the Patriot gun, i couldn't get less than 1:30 on the first act... I imagine it will be downhill from there... poo

Edit: Sons of the Bitch's apparently game time continues when you're paused...

curryking1

06-24-2008, 11:05 PM

1:30 on the first act?

Git ur act 2getha! I'm 1:28 after beating Laughing Octopus! I did the battle over again. Shaved off a good six minutes, I think that's all I did with my Big Boss run file.

Only used V. Ring and the Stun Knife. Now I have 27 Tranq. Pistol ammo, 20 Mosin Nagant bullets, 20+ V. Ring and 10 Stun Nades after the battle with her. :D

I still have to beat the girl though. If I wait for her to die in the white room, I don't get a kill do I? I'm wondering if I should just wait to end the battle to save ammo...

Oh it's because you paused :P

Ya, the first time I started by Big Boss run.... had to restart because I didn't realise the timer was still going...

I thought I had 5 min after the first few areas... where I actually had 5 hours...

curryking1

06-24-2008, 11:16 PM

Btw, does anyone have any recommendations or strategies on how to take down a beauty with minimal ammo use?

I found one way where you can make the beauty crouch if you go under a table or bed or something so you can roll into her/easily stun knife the person.

Sephiroth_VII

06-24-2008, 11:28 PM

Here's something I was confused about: wasn't Eva and Adam the ones who restored Big Boss' body with parts from Solidus and Liquid? If so, it must have happened right after MGS2, when Liquid gained control of GW.

Then maybe, after they learned the location of the body, they swapped it with Solidus', whom they had already removed the limbs from, then restored it and hid it in a safe location to wait for the AI's to go offline. When that's happened, Big Boss woke up(Around the time Snake was fighting Ocelot.), found Zero per instructions Ocelot must have left for him, and went to Snake to be killed.

Does that make sense?

Ok hells naw!

First off... Ocelot doesn't exist anymore. It's not The Boss' son anymore. It's Liquid and only Liquid.

Secondly, Liquid would've kept JD for himself. With Liquid's knowledge about most everything and GW being on the ship he's sail boating around on, Liquid could've massacred GW, and thus JD (the control of warfare and forces) himself.

It was Solid Snake's and Otacon's pure goal and infinite determination to set the world right that let them achieve their goal.

All of Naomi's misinformation and 'lies' towards Philanthropy was all in the same pursuit (like Snake and Otacon) of atoning for one's own sins.

No, Ocelot very much exists. Big Boss said so himself, he used hypnosis to be able to act like you would expect Liquid to, using the arm, and perhaps his heritage, to fool The Patriots into believing Liquid had taken over his body, which would be muchg less dangerous the the AI system than having one of the founders rebel(Ocelot).

Ocelot also said near the end: "I am Liquid's doppelganger, and you are his(BBs)." Either he's talking in third person, or he is, in fact Ocelot all the way through the game.

curryking1

06-24-2008, 11:30 PM

You can be in a vegetative state and be an amputee at the same time.

HPK

06-25-2008, 02:35 AM

That's part of the theme too. You can't completely remove a person from a body. The game says somewhere that nanomachines cannot completely control and form who a person is. In the same way Liquid can't completely erase all of Ocelot in Ocelot's own body.

Ocelot himself is gone, but his nuances were still there.

I'm pretty sure it did say Ocelot knew that taking on Liquid would cause him to lose himself, but he did it anyway.

Ocelot (thus Liquid Ocelot... as he is called the entire game in MGS4) had Liquid's voice for the entire game... and that's supposed to be the expression that Liquid has been controlling Ocelot for the whole game.

Liquid has had control of Ocelot's body ever since Tanker Mission in MGS2 and had absolute control since the Federal Hall incident.

See, I still disagree with you about Liquid.

I'm just going to copy and paste what I got from Wikipedia:
In Metal Gear Solid 4 (which continues the story from where Metal Gear Solid 2 left off), he assumes the identity of Liquid Ocelot, with the Liquid Snake persona having apparently taken complete control of his mind. He attempts to resurrect Outer Heaven in his conflict with the Patriots, establishing a dummy corporation that runs the five largest PMCs that exist in the game. It is explained that Ocelot's possession by Liquid was an elaborate act made possible with self-hypnosis and nanomachines in order to trick the Patriots AIs and turn against them by pretending to be possessed. According to the Metal Gear Solid 4: Database, Liquid's arm threw Ocelot's psyche out of balance, thus he removed the arm and had it replaced with a cybernetic prosthetic prior to the events of Guns of the Patriots.[8]

After Ocelot draws Snake into Outer Haven, the two have a final fist fight atop the warship, reminiscent of Snake and Liquid's fight atop REX. Ocelot tires and collapses to the ground, showing signs of his own personality, and suddenly dies. His final words to Snake are: "You're... pretty good." accompanied by a hand gesture in reference to events in Snake Eater. He dies from a new strain of FoxDie that was injected into Snake by Drebin.[9]

The information about his new arm comes from the Metal Gear Solid 4: Database on PSN.

So, this pretty much means Liquid's influence over Ocelot was gone after the events of MGS2, but Ocelot needed to continue acting like Liquid in order to take down the Patriots. That's why Liquid's voice is missing from MGS4: Because he was never there to begin with. The also explains Ocelot's robot arm.

curryking1

06-25-2008, 03:12 AM

Lol wut?!

Ok I'm lost lol. I guess I totally missed that. I did wonder why his arm was all techno, but I didn't think much of it as soon as I saw some more pretty graphics lol.

Ocelot... was alive... holy ***k. Lol.

I guess that's the showdown that was interrupted by Grey Fox in MGS1... Liquid already had his showdown, he didn't really need another one I guess. It was Ocelot wanting to finish his fight then?

Nice find man.

Sephiroth_VII

06-25-2008, 07:42 AM

Yep, that's it. I think Passive mentioned noticing the arm a few pages back xD

Ties up all the loose ends rather nicely, and also proves that he was indeed The Sorrow's son.

Passive

06-25-2008, 08:38 AM

Yeah i did.

I'm not really a aprt of this topic though as im always asleep when the topic starts and im too lazy to read the long posts.

But in short i'll say what ive been trying to tell all my MGS fans. Liquid has been dead since MGS1. no other way to say it. Ocelot was ocelot in MGS4 but at the same time had the persona of liquid. Just like actors, Johnny Depp is still Johnny Depp but with the persona of Jack Sparrow. But in Ocelots case a hall of alot more deep and complicated with the hypnosis and massive deception to fool the AI.

Sephiroth_VII

06-25-2008, 01:42 PM

Well, no, it looks like Liquid died after MGS2, when Ocelot removed his arm again and replaced t with a cybernetic one. In mGS2, it truly was Liquid who interfered, at least according to the database.

Passive

06-25-2008, 01:48 PM

Not really, essentially he was dead after MGS1, his spirit caried on to the end of MGS2. From everything i've learnt about spirit mediums and such. it makes sense that it was liquid but Ocelot was still there inside so Liquid was never fully controling ocelot therefore still existing as a spirit not as a living being. So if you want to get really picky he hasnt been truly alive since the end of MGS1 because if he fully took over ocelot, ocelot wouldn't have been able to take control and remove the arm.

If any of that makes sense :P

Sephiroth_VII

06-25-2008, 01:55 PM

True, but I'd define live as "being aware," and Liquid was definitely aware of his surroundings during MGS2.

Passive

06-25-2008, 02:06 PM

Yeah i agree, sentience is what makes something alive in my opinion, but also i think in the case of spiritual possession it's a little different. But there are heaps of different opinions on such an open topic as its all still in theory so neither of us is wrong.

Jasonps3

06-25-2008, 02:31 PM

I have two questions. Does EVA know that the corpse is Solidus Snake instead of Big Boss that was burned. Did Raiden knew he picked up the wrong body?

Sephiroth_VII

06-25-2008, 03:10 PM

EVA knows, yes, since she helped restore his real body using Solidus'.

Passive

06-25-2008, 03:35 PM

Yes EVA knew and Raiden Would gotten both Solidus and Big Boss out.

curryking1

06-25-2008, 03:47 PM

So is he not at all Liquid in the game?

It seems like he is primarily Ocelot for sure then, but it seems like a bit of Liquid's persona still remains. He keeps calling him brother and he still uses the headbutt move. ;)

Maybe he partially remains. Man MGS is too ***king awesome! Ocelot, you rock my socks! :cloud9:

Passive

06-25-2008, 04:03 PM

Haha Liquid is in MGS4 but at the same time he's not. Ocelot became liquids doppelganger, sort of a mirrored persona of Liquid. he had liquids memories, his thought patterns, his personality he essentially was an exact twin on a peronal level. Obviously not on a physical level. It's a difficult concept to get your head around. But it was liquid but it was still ocelot pretending to be liquid to an extent of litterally become liquid. The man from MGS1 isn't the man in MGS4, just an exact copy even sharing the same conciousness on some levels like previously stated in memories and personality.

Think about it this way, if you were a spirit medium and had acsess to my memories if i died and trained your mind to think those memories were yours, and forced your being into the way i use to act, the way i thought, the things i said, even thinking my family was your family. esentially you would become me but at the same time i myself am still dead as nails.

Sephiroth_VII

06-25-2008, 04:14 PM

Yep, however Ocelot is aware of who he truly is all the way through, he just puts on an act, you know no one is better than him at that ;)

Passive

06-25-2008, 04:17 PM

haha indeed. he's such a cronic backstabber and trickster. and to willingly be someones doppelganger AND then come back from it and return to your former self? massive willpower.

Sephiroth_VII

06-25-2008, 04:22 PM

He has CBS ;)

Passive

06-25-2008, 04:28 PM

haha! that he does XD but he threw his medicine aware right before the shadow moses incident.

Sephiroth_VII

06-25-2008, 04:34 PM

Yeah. Stupid move Ocelot, real stupid...

Passive

06-25-2008, 04:41 PM

But with comical results ^^

Jasonps3

06-25-2008, 05:42 PM

Eva and Ocelot, the best backstabbers in MGS history. They tricked Naked Snake, Solid Snake and the Patriots System almost easily.

Passive

06-25-2008, 05:47 PM

But Ocelot even tricked EVA :P

Jasonps3

06-25-2008, 06:31 PM

Yep, that's why he ranked above Eva :).

Sephiroth_VII

06-25-2008, 06:54 PM

It should be:
1. Ocelot
2. The Boss
3. Eva

err_ok

06-25-2008, 07:57 PM

Wierd you know if you just stun grenade a beauty in the face it one shots them.... A friend of mine is playing through it on Solid Normal....

curryking1

06-25-2008, 08:10 PM

Say what? Is that possible on Extreme?

I'd use a Stun Nade if it can save me that much time and be that easy.

To beat Laughing Beauty I ended up using the Stun Knife only. Took about 2 minutes or something. I let her grab me a few times so I could throw her to the ground.

Sephiroth_VII

06-25-2008, 08:33 PM

I have my doubts about it working on Extreme...

err_ok

06-25-2008, 09:51 PM

^ Well i'll have a go but i also have my doubts.... Oh and with beasts can you use lethal ammo to kill them and then use non-lethal on a beauty or does that still count as a kill.... Cause i think crying wolf is going to be a pain in the arse with a tranq gun and stun grenades....

Sephiroth_VII

06-25-2008, 11:34 PM

I think it will count as a kill, and you won't get the statue. Not sure though.

Hisham

06-25-2008, 11:43 PM

Statue?

I stun killed Laughing Octopus (both beast and beauty) and I only got face camo (you know, the one for stunkilling the beauty). You get statues as well?

Segitz

06-26-2008, 12:55 AM

Statue?

I stun killed Laughing Octopus (both beast and beauty) and I only got face camo (you know, the one for stunkilling the beauty). You get statues as well?

You need to collect it, you don't get it "just like that"... (afaik)

Sephiroth_VII

06-26-2008, 12:57 AM

Yeah, it's hidden in the level after stun killing the beast form, you need to find it while fighting Beauty.

err_ok

06-26-2008, 10:02 PM

While watching the credits i noticed "Voice of GOD"... Who the hell is God i can't remember that.....

Sephiroth_VII

06-26-2008, 11:18 PM

Everyone is discussing that...

solidsnakejej

06-26-2008, 11:59 PM

I remember someone saying it was after the screaming mantis fight when psycho mantis was called up.

Passive

06-27-2008, 12:02 AM

I'm not :P i personally think it was just a hideo joke type thing as its not even metioned in the limited edition walkthrough guide.

Sephiroth_VII

06-27-2008, 02:24 AM

I think it's a very well hidden Easter Egg...

gibmonster

06-27-2008, 07:53 AM

I just finished this game a few nights ago. Wow. There aren't any adjectives that can really express how awesome this game is. It is so well put together and the story is incredible.

I'm playing through it again and I'm trying to get the big boss emblem.

Jay Gee

06-27-2008, 02:45 PM

While watching the credits i noticed "Voice of GOD"... Who the hell is God i can't remember that.....
I thought the Voice of God was the guy who spoke whenever Snake hit a Combat High, but that's probably not it.

Sephiroth_VII

06-27-2008, 06:07 PM

No, that would be Liquid.

err_ok

06-27-2008, 07:23 PM

And also what are with the Hideo channels when you first start the game....? And it also comes up when you switch between mgs1 and mgs4 in the shadow moses act.. Very odd.

Sephiroth_VII

06-27-2008, 07:50 PM

A reference to

1) Hideo Kojima being the director of the game(duh)
2) When you fought Mantis in MGS1, the screen would sometimes go black and display "HIDEO 2" in the upper right corner, to make you think you'd accidentially switched your TV to another port, or rather, that Mantis had done it. Considering mantis is "controlling" Snake throughout the entire game, the last explanation is probably the most likely.

Bull

07-01-2008, 02:46 AM

My MGS4 Review:

I don't typically write video game reviews...but for THIS I'll have to make an exception. Metal Gear Solid 4:Guns of the Patriots is hands down one of the best games I've ever played. I love games with a cinematic element to them, and this is a masterpiece in that department. I really can't find much wrong with this game because it's damn near flawless. The enviroments, story, and character development were all top-notch. I admit that I didn't bother much with the CQC because when I got into fights...I always used my guns lol. When I play it again, I'll work that in more most likely. I also loved how Hideo brought back some old faces like Mei Ling and Naomi Hunter.

But I really want to talk about the best part of this game...it's what has made this series what it is and that's the deep, in-depth storyline. This entire series, especially MGS4 has the best storyline of any game I have ever played...hands down. You have plenty of games with good/very good storylines like Mass Effect, Call of Duty 4, Assassin's Creed (as tedious as the game was), and Grand Theft Auto 4. But MGS4 and the series itself is in a league of it's own, thanks to an incredible team headed by Hideo Kojima! All of the story arcs were closed up in this final installment, and if there are any plot holes...I missed them. I liked how they handled Raiden in this game too, even though I didn't have a problem with him in Sons of Liberty...some fans did. Admittedly, it did kinda get far-fetched with him...especially after seeing him get crushed by Outer Haven and not dying (and all he needed to survive was a blood transfusion lol).

The Metal Gear Rex/Ray fight was really cool too. I also liked how Kojima made the Patriots a little more down to Earth. Instead of the supreme/Illuminati-esque group they were in S.O.L. They were essentially a relic of the Cold War who came upon a boat load of money and got carried away. By the way they were talking in the game, it seemed as if the A.I. Zero created became self-aware (think I, Robot, The Matrix, or The Terminator). Since it appears after a while no human was actually controlling it...we see some of this in Sons of Liberty though when Arsenal Gear is talking to Raiden.

Words can't really describe how great I think this game is...this is how next-gen is supposed to be presented. This is truly the end, there's nothing left to discover. The Patriots have been wiped out and the A.I. along with it. Snake will be taking a dirt nap in a few months, etc. The only possibility of more games is if Kojima decides to remake Metal Gear 1 and 2. But what point would that be? We essentially know everything anyway. Snake Eater had a point in that it layed the foundation for the creation of the Patriots and everything that happened later.

EDIT:

Oh, and the damn near hour-long ending was kick ass too!! But can someone explain the whole doppleganger thing to me? If Ocelot was really being controlled by Liquid...then was Liquid really dead? And why would Ocelot pretend to be him anyway? And I just realized something, Ocelot kills a member of the Patriots in MGS1 (Sigint)!! I can't remember why...but wtf was that all about?

Jasonps3

07-01-2008, 05:04 AM

Here's my two cents,

In MGS2 Liquid can take control of Ocelot when Solid Snake is around. After MGS2, Ocelot replaced Liquid's arm with a prostetic (sorry for spelling) arm to prevent Liquid from controlling him again. Afterwords, some of Liquid's Psyche is still inside Ocelot, so Ocelot learned how to control it. He control it so well, he can become Liquid very easily. So he became Liquid Ocelot even though he's actually Ocelot. He killed Sigint because he's part of the Patriots. Even though he's the spy for the Patriots, Ocelot true loyalty is with Big Boss (just like Eva, Naomi, Frank Hunter). So it he's mission (along with Eva and them) is to destroy the Patriots System, including the people who are loyal to the system (Sigint, Dr. Clark) in order to revive Big Boss and find the location of Major Zero. In MGS4, Ocelot pretended to be Liquid Ocelot to trick the Patriots (I think, I maybe wrong about that) and everybody else (including Eva) in believing that Ocelot is "dead" and it's he's mission is to start a insurrection take control of the Patroit's system. However in reality, his plan was to destroy the Patriots System and Naomi was the only one who knows his true mission.

Sorry if this is confusing. But, that's why this series is awesome.

Bull

07-01-2008, 06:42 AM