For MGS4, 720p or 1080p on 1366x768 LCD?

[MasaC]

I was thinking since MGS4 render at 1024x768 according to Quaz51 on B3D, which is the best video output on PS3 för MGS4 on a 1366x768 LCD?

If you set PS3 for 720p output wouldn't the render resolution of 1024x768 get downscaled to 720 lines and then upscaled to 768 lines on the LCD and lose 48 vertical lines in the process?

Wouldn't it be better to set the PS3 to 1080i and let the game upscale to 1920x1080 and output that as 1080i and thus not lose any vertical lines and then let the LCD downscale the image to 1366x768 aswell as deinterlace the 1080i signal?

Personally it won't matter as I have a 1080p LCD TV but I was just wondering if users with a 1366x768 LCD (or a 1024x768 plasma) wouldn't benefit from using 1080i instead of 720p on their PS3 for this game.

I apologize if this has been adressed already in this forum section.

[Passive]

If your LCD does a maximum resolution of 1366x768 wouldnt running anything at 1920x1080 be... impossible? Forgive my ignorance im not a huge wiz when it comes down to it, but how can it run anything at a res higher that its max res output?

[Segitz]

Well for starters...

it is (or was) a plain idiotic decision of LCD makers to make the panels 768P instead of 720P, as now, EVERYTHING the gets in needs to be rescaled to 768P instead of the native 720P. This is basically the simple answer...

Second... it doesn't really matter if you input your game in 720P or 1080i... scaling always takes place. I run the game at 1080P and must say... kudos to Kojima Productions. I would have never thought, that this game does not run at native 720P if it weren't for Quaz.

Thing is, if you force your PS3 to output the game at 1080i, you let your TV do the work... and if the TV has a bad scaler, it WILL look worse, like my old TV did (the deinterlacer sucked ass...), than on 720P.

There's no general consensus on what looks better. If your TV has a very good scaler, then there's no need to force either output (as they should look the same), if your TV has a bad scaler, I'd recommend 720P (as this is usually the targeted resolution of HD Ready displays).

Performancewise, I cannot see any difference between 1080P or 720P and surely, I cannot see a difference in graphical fidelity.

On another front, always try and calibrate your TV to D65, as this is THE standard of the movie business, and I doubt, game makers will differ from that standard. Also, when using digital inputs (HDMI), always switch off sharpening and noise reduction, as it alters the picture, which is not what you will want. (same goes to "dynamic" contrast etc. etc... all this crap is inteded to do is make the picture look better by making it fake...)

[curryking1]

Whoever made desktop widescreen monitors 16:10 is also a ***king idiot.

[Viper]

I think the original idea was so that subtitles could be displayed while not overlapping the actual movie and to accommodate 2 equal sized A4 documents on screen.

Monitors are still used 10 times as much for word processing as they are for movies so that environment took priority over cinema.

[curryking1]

My needs must come firstttt....

*whine whine

:cry2:

[GTAce]

1080P and must say... kudos to Kojima Productions. I would have never thought, that this game does not run at native 720P if it weren't for Quaz.

[MasaC]

If your LCD does a maximum resolution of 1366x768 wouldnt running anything at 1920x1080 be... impossible?

Yes but the LCD would receive the 1080i signal (1920x1080 interlaced), deinterlace the signal to progressive and then downscale the signal to its native resolution of 1366x768.

The point was that since the game renders at 1024x768 maybe you wouldn't lose any lines by going with 1080i as opposed to 720p (1280x720). Look at it this way:

PS3 at 720p with 1366x768 LCD:

MGS4 renders at 1024x768-->MGS4 upscales and downscales the video signal to 1280x720 (720p)-->LCD receives 720p signal and upscales to its native res, 1366x768.

PS3 at 1080i with 1366x768 LCD:

MGS4 renders at 1024x768-->MGS4 upscales the video signal to 1920x1080 (1080i)-->LCD receives 1080i signal, deinterlaces and downscales to its native res, 1366x768.

In the first example 48 lines of rendered graphics information gets lost by going from 768 to 720. That information is not coming back when the LCD goes back to 768 lines from 720 lines.

Sure, it may be worse if your LCD has a bad scaler and, especially, is bad at deinterlacing.

[Viper]

Sounds like it's going to vary from TV to TV. A simple try it for yourself tactic may be the best route for those with that resolution monitor.

The 720p output may be easier for most monitors to handle vs the 1080i which might introduce delay, artifacts or other video problems.

Try both if they can is my suggestion.

[Segitz]

Sounds like it's going to vary from TV to TV. A simple try it for yourself tactic may be the best route for those with that resolution monitor.

The 720p output may be easier for most monitors to handle vs the 1080i which might introduce delay, artifacts or other video problems.

Try both if they can is my suggestion.

That is about the jist of what I wanted to say...

Thing is... if the same algorithm is used, it should matter if it first scales to 1080i or 720P, as the render resolution is still the same.

The lost 48 lines really don't matter. New movies can resolve up to 6000 lines (they are only transferred at 1080P though). If, hypothetically, a BD could store 6000P movies and our TV can only output 1080P, the endresult should nevertheless look nearly identically to a normal BD, if both systems would be scaled equally.

[MasaC]

That is about the jist of what I wanted to say...

Thing is... if the same algorithm is used, it should matter if it first scales to 1080i or 720P, as the render resolution is still the same.

It matters because when the game renders at 768 lines it has to take away 48 rendered lines when scaling to 1280x720. No matter what algoritm used that information won't be restored when the LCD receives the 720p signal and scale it to its native res. If the game scales to 1920x1080 and sends as 1080i no rendered information is lost and the LCD has access to all rendered information when it scales to its resolution.

The lost 48 lines really don't matter. New movies can resolve up to 6000 lines (they are only transferred at 1080P though). If, hypothetically, a BD could store 6000P movies and our TV can only output 1080P, the endresult should nevertheless look nearly identically to a normal BD, if both systems would be scaled equally.

First, I'm not saying it would be a world of difference but it should look a bit sharper, especially on the HUD. Second, movies on BD are not stored as 6000p. Where did you get that from? They may be 6000p (or whatever) original but on BD they're always remastered and stored as 1920x1080 at the most (the highest res in BD standards).

If a BD could store a movie at 6000 lines and you had a screen capable of showing all 6000 lines it certainly would be a world of difference compared to 1080 lines, don't you think?

[Segitz]

It matters because when the game renders at 768 lines it has to take away 48 rendered lines when scaling to 1280x720. No matter what algoritm used that information won't be restored when the LCD receives the 720p signal and scale it to its native res. If the game scales to 1920x1080 and sends as 1080i no rendered information is lost and the LCD has access to all rendered information when it scales to its resolution.



First, I'm not saying it would be a world of difference but it should look a bit sharper, especially on the HUD. Second, movies on BD are not stored as 6000p. Where did you get that from? They may be 6000p (or whatever) original but on BD they're always remastered and stored as 1920x1080 at the most (the highest res in BD standards).

If a BD could store a movie at 6000 lines and you had a screen capable of showing all 6000 lines it certainly would be a world of difference compared to 1080 lines, don't you think?


First of all... learn to read... I said HYPOTHETICALLY stored at 6000P. And of course a 6000P display would look better, but that is not what I said!

But other than that... I'll leave it at that... 48 lines are negligible...

If you have an HD-Ready display the main input is supposed to be 720P, not 1080i. Thus, the internal electrics of the TV are laid out to do better 720P than 1080i. My old TV looked horrible at 1080i, but quite ok at 720P.

And to add to that, of you downscale stuff with a good algorithm, you supersample a picture... this is why movies look much better than games (CGI movies), because their native resolution is MUCH higher and then downscaled for TVs.

[GTAce]

I didnt read all of that thead here but just wanted to post that one sentence:
In gaming, 720p is always better than 1080i, because an interlaced pic sucks.

And you wont loose any image information, i could even imagine those 48 lines are just black stripes, but there isnt a norm like 1024x720, thats why its 1024x768.
Youre reading too much into this stuff.