The things I liked, things i didn't....

[Z]

this may sound like an odd thread since this whole section was created just for that. but I like to pin point some of the things we really liked or noticed in the game. and what about any negativity you felt (don't shoot me)? here are some of mine:

LOVED:

-I reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally loved that there aren't a bunch of codecs ringing up every five steps. I also loved that there are only two people to contact. it feels more personal that way and you also feel more isolated and deep into enemy lines. the previous game mad it feel like a slumber party with a bunch of guys always eager to chat. they keep distracting you. but now, you feel they're not there just because they didn't have anything better to do.

-also, as good as the voice acting was in all of the previous game, this one takes the cake easily. man, I felt real emotions behind those voices.


Didn't like:
I won't say hated since I love this project too much to say so. it is way too soon to even begin being harsh. lol. bet here is one thing that disappointed me:

- no Metal Gear in a Metal Gear game? wah? even that portable card game had one. come on, the final robot is one of the biggest thing i look forward in these games- especially since the letdown in the last game where Shinkawa himself said he was constrained by the time line from making something kick ass. and here I thought something will finally trump Ray- which is one of the most awesome robot designs I have ever seen.
an example of this is the spectacular boss/beast designs the game had. purely amazing- except for the Doc-oc one; too simple for a MGS game.

- the cutscenes were really good. i didn't feel like wanting to skip any of them or feel like someone kicked me in my unmentionables after watching them and yelling at my self for all the time i wasted that I could've been playing instead. but the only one that felt was stretched too long was the one where Naomi screws with poor Otacon. that bitch! no, I don't feel sorry for her and I hate her. this also made me actually admire Otacon for the first time. he has it so bad. poor little otaku buddy. *sniff sniff*.


PS. I didn't even start MGO and don't feel like it...or playing any other game. wow, the game felt so grand and complete it just fills you up and makes you feel you don't want anything else for a loooong while.

[masteratt]

LOVED

lol seriously?
Check all my praises, I can't do it justice summing it up in bullet points.


DIDN'T LOVE AS MUCH AS OTHER BITS
(beat your way of saying it haha :p)

- The ending cut-scene.
Well, just one specific bit of it- The Big Boss speech.
The way he DRILLED the idea of everything 50 million times in 50 million ways was pretty patronising and frustrating.
My finger was hovering over the Skip button.

I understand it's the last bit of the last game and everything must be super tidy (well ti doesn't have to be but Hideo obviously wanted it that way, so kudos to him for not leaving us guessing with thumbs up our asses) but jeez man c'mon.

Yeah even thinking about it now is tedious lol
Come to think of I might have DISLIKED this bit!! =-o


And that ends that :)

[Z]

Hated! (there i said it!):

that Snake didn't kill himself at the end. seriously, after Big Boss, Zero, Eva, Liquid and all the rest, it would've been a grand and 'complete' ending if he just shot himself. he should've been a man and took it up front like Big Boss did. how he took Zero's life was so brutal, cold and amazing. I respected him for that= especially after the fact that Zero was nothing but a breathing vegetable that really 'died' a long time ago. so amazing.

in stead, Snake deciced to take a Hawaii vacation with Otacon...

*runs away*

[AC!D]

I hated that enemies kept respawning in the warzones and you couldnt completley win a couple of them by aiding the militia but could only help win a few.

I wouldnt say i hated but i thought the bosses in MGS3 seriously pissed on MGS4 bosses in terms of how cool they were and how tactically they were presented to you. I mean comon fighting the fear was taken straight out of predator, the end was the best boss fight ever for me, the fury with the awesome fire effects, metal gear shagahod fight, volgin fight were amazing and the boss fight need i say more. The MGS4 boss fights pale in comparison. The only fights i enjoyed were octopus, Wolf, metal gear vs metal gear and Ocelot.

I also didnt enjoy the fact that there was no new metal gear end boss although i really loved the Gekkos but they still dont count.

I also would have prefered Solid blowing his brains out at the end.

Watching Raiden kill Vamp in a cutscene when i would have prefered taking control of Raiden and doing the job myself.

Apart from these few criticisms its still the best game i have ever played :)

[Passive]

I loved nearly everything about this game...

EXCEPT

Big Boss' speech went for a tad to long. it would have been perfect if when he asked snake to take him over to The bosses grave that he didn't stop half way at the grave infront and babble a bit. chop out that fist rest stop and that speech would have been perfect.

The boss fights did infact pale slightly, the wolf fight was different and new with the wind directioning and listing in surround sound for her breathing and foot steps while trying to block out the snowy winds but raven was just a stand and blow the shit out of her fight it wasnt at all tactical. nor was mantis really the stat was pointed out right from the go. same with vamp it was easy on all levels. So i think they could have made the boss fights a little better.

another thing i didnt like was the respawning enemies. I would kill them and they would keep coming so i advanced in the area PAST the spawn point and they would stop but if for some reason i was driven back behind that point again, they would start spawning again -.- it was very frustrating.

Okay i know i'll get shunned for this, but i'm not a fan of the credits track "Here's to you" for 3 reasons.
1: it's not originally written for MGS4, it was from a film called sacco e vanzetti.
2: Lisbeth Scott, can't fucking sing, seriously what the hell? her voice is aweful :s there were times where i thought "my god hold a note girl"
3: It doesn't even come close to "the best is yet to come" No-where near it. That track smashes "here's to you" into the ground, the singing is amazing, the music is perfect and the atmosphere it creates is unexplainable. Here's to you just doesn't have that feel.

Stress. Snakes stress was a very very good part to the game but the only thing i have to say about it is that it begins going up as soon as he steps out of the shadows :S i mean come on, he wouldn't get stressed from half a second of sunlight he's not a fucking vampire. i think about 30 seconds of heat would have been better then start the stress counting.

Voice acting was top notch in this game except for some lines from Otacon -.- they were expressionless and lacked emotion and from such an emotional character such as Otacon it really needed that in some lines.

and last but not least i would have liked snake to die. ever since i saw him put a gun in his mouth in the trailer i had a feeling our hero would die by his hand. and we thought he did but then we got BB so i was happy then after the he didn't die. But in some ways i guess its a good thing. The only reason snake was going to shoot himself was to stop himself from beaing a weapon and seeming as that wasn't going to happen anymore he had no real reason to snuff himself out. And really i can't see any other way this game could have ended. with the last shot being snake kneel infront of Big Boss. So yeah in a way i would have liked snake to die because i like those kind of endings BUT the ending kojima gave us was just as amazing.


Other than those few things i loved this game, it is in my opinion the greatest game i've ever played. followed closely by the other MGS titles. Still an amazing experience for me.


Watching Raiden kill Vamp in a cutscene when i would have prefered taking control of Raiden and doing the job myself.

Personally that would have been a little silly for me, i would however have like seeing the fight in a cutscene after fighting the gekkos, not during. I wanted to see the fight fully, not out of periferal vision while shooting stuff.

[solidsnakejej]

I don't see why people would have liked Snake to die. It's not like he's going to live long anyway. Right after that cutscene I had doubts that he was actually dead because I would think in that situation Kojima would have made us pull the trigger similar to MGS3 ending.

I would have liked more battlefields because you have so many options to use in a battle that it feels like some of the options are going to waste. Also the boss battles were way to easily. Both Octopus and Raven were pretty much a war of attrition.

[Z]

I would think in that situation Kojima would have made us pull the trigger similar to MGS3 ending.

now that would've been awesome!

I also never like to have a shitload of items in any game that don't force you or at least intrigue to use them. how many freaking handguns are there in the game? seriously? did they need to put all those which most are practically the same? also, the 'calm pills' for sniping (never could remember their name), I remember they were valued in MGS1 and needed for the Sniper Wolf boss fight. but not here. heck, you don't even really need a sniper.

as for Snake killing himself, I am glad to see i am not the only one who would liked to see it. for those that see a suicide as a drawback to such a charater, think of it as his last mission in saving the world by riding his virus infected body before he becomes a 'walking weapon of mass destruction'.

seriously, all the Snake family have died. why should he get to live even though he is on his last leg?
also, I will be very disappointed if they make him return for future games as being young and full of life again by spitting out a story of how he miraculously fond a cure and he is back to normal. that wold be lame and an insult to MGS4's whole experience.

also, I didn't like how Raiden got his arm perfectly back at the end (bio or mechanical, it's all the same). it would've been much more emotional to see him without an arm in that final scene.

finally, I would LOVE to see a new MGS (of course there will be) that is literally new in every single aspect. I don't even want to hear the same sound effect for changing items, controls, every single character. I don't want any references to any previous MGS settings at all. i thin that would be awesome.

[Passive]

I think we'll see something along those lines in the years to come Z. and it'll be awesome :)

[Z]

I hated how Snake was perfectly fine by the end of his last mission aside from a slight cheek burn. I was really hopping he would lose an eye in the fire. also, the final microwave walk was so strong. I was expecting serious damage by the end of it. I was expecting Snake to be in such a bad state in the final cutscene, and why not, it was the final mission. fuck it, tear everything down. everyone should've gone out with a bang (like Raiden) but especially Snake.

[Sephiroth_VII]

I dunno, I liked the ending, I liked Big Boss' speech. I mean, why should Snake kill himself rather than live in peace for a few years? I think his choice made him an even more human character.

I didn't really hate anything, except maybe for the Raven fight. No, I think I was just disappointed by it.

[Gummy]

I love everything.


disliked: not being able to play raiden!








j/k...?
maybe? idk.

[Passive]

Haha playing as raiden would have been cool if it was an unlockable.

and Z who is saying he wasn't fucked up under that grey suit?

[Z]

what happened to him turning into a virus launch point? did he get cured from that or could it still happen?

[Z]

and Z who is saying he wasn't fucked up under that grey suit?

he was fine at the end cutscene with a nice suit and all. moving like it was the start of the game...

[Hisham]

what happened to him turning into a virus launch point? did he get cured from that or could it still happen?

The new foxdie in his body was uprooting the old mutated foxdie. Eventually the new foxdie would also mutate, but he can live out the rest of his life because it would take much longer than a year for it to mutate and become a threat again, so basically he can live out his last 6 months to a year without worry...

Big Boss explained that in the ending...

PAY ATTENTION MAN!!!

[Passive]

Wow Z :P did you not pay any attention to BBs long speech? :S

[the boney king of nowhere.]

yeah, the game should have ended at the first bout of credits. that would have been perfect.

but it carries on, then all of a sudden, snake is still alive, which basically made me not feel sorry for him at all. big boss survived, which was just pointless. and zero is somehow now the bad guy and gets murdered for no real reason, despite the fact he's a vegetable.

and naomi's death was stupid. she just decided to stop her cancer treatment for no reason at all, then died almost instantly. some real fast-moving cancer she had.

[Z]

Wow Z :P did you not pay any attention to BBs long speech? :S
I was too busy sobbing! all my other house-mates thought I was gay from all the screaming and drama!

zero is somehow now the bad guy and gets murdered for no real reason
he payed for the the unintentional mistake he made. he meant well, but his decisions reached a different result. it's harsh. but that what makes his execution beautiful, emotional and hard. I loved it. it was so sad. you can almost feel Big Boss crying.

naomi's death was stupid...some real fast-moving cancer she had.
Nano machines are what kept here alive. cancer had gotten to her a long time ago- she probably used them when she first appeared in MGS1. she was basically on life support. stopping them were like pulling the plug.

[Z]

I was going to say I hated the empty boss characters. but all the other characters fill that space so much that I frankly don't care that I was fighting nobodies as bosses. I only wished the fights were much, much more grand in scale like almost all previous MGS boss fights...

[LiquidEagle]

and naomi's death was stupid. she just decided to stop her cancer treatment for no reason at all, then died almost instantly. some real fast-moving cancer she had.

I'm pretty sure she was going to die anyways when the virus did its thing to JD/GW and ruined nanomachines.

The only thing that I wasn't a fan of was Drebin's speeches at the end of each B&B Corps. fight. They each had interesting backstories, but Drebin delivering them over codec made them kind of boring... I would have loved to have the Beauties themselves actually say their story with flashbacks or something, because Drebin's codec calls were always one-sided (Snake like never says anything in between), and they're the longest codec calls in the game.

Part of me would've liked to see Snake die, just because, but at the same time he deserves to live what little life he has left, given that the rest of his life was taken from him.

And Passive, have you heard the original version of "Here's to You"? The way it sounds, this HGW & Lisbeth Scott version may as well be a brand new song :-p

[curryking1]

I loved essentially the entire game. I had no qualms for the entire duration of play it or everything in between.

The only thing I had a problem with was the drawn out and almost ridiculous/sappy endings for a few of the characters.

Namely... Campbell, Johnny and Meryl and whatever other troupe was at that awkward and cheesy wedding... and Rose and Jack. And oh my God Big Boss I ***king love you but stop talking. And I didn't like the place in the story that Zero was given either. Big Boss' death was appropriate though and his death on a last smoke was fitting as he never freed himself until his very end.

Snake's, Otacon's and Sunny's ending was class though.

Snake not killing himself at the end of the game was the most fitting ending that could've possibly been given to the game. It really means he finally frees himself of war once and for all and no longer has to be chained to it and destined for a death by the fruits or tools of war.

P.S. Snake quitting smoking in contrast to Big Boss not having the chance to quit is also pretty fundamental I think. And it was awesome too.

[Z]

The only thing that I wasn't a fan of was Drebin's speeches at the end of each B&B Corps.

it would've been even better of Mantis could have 'projected' them to Snake with freaky flashbacks and effects. Mantis's own background could have been delivered in a number of ways as well. it would've given that character that more edge to it.

[Passive]

It seems i'm the only one who actually like the Meryl/Akiba plot and Raidens ending. The love plot was very surprising and resfreshing to say the least. The ending scene at the wedding though was pretty cliche and bland, except for Drebin's drunken speech :P i liked that. As for Raidens ending, i really liked it. It closed the character nicely. his whole life he's been alone, he's been in pain and now he's finally been given a chance to live a life with the woman he loves and his son he didn't know he had. Why is this so bad? I seriously don't get this whole "raiden is a pussy" thing :s i really don't i loved his character from the minute i began playing him up until the last shot of that hospital scene, he's been through so much in his life he has every right to be "emo" or whatever you want to label him. And just because he's the ninja in MGS4 doesn't mean he's lost the issues he had in MGS2. If anything they would have been amplified 10 fold because having a mechanical body would have further removed him from humanity thus from rose. He's such a deep character that has been bashed because fans didn't like playing as him and because of this whole "emo" thing the world has going these days. Look back at Grey fox, that guy was messed up too even more so than Raiden but do i hear pussy remarks about him? no. Maybe he didn't show it as much but frank never really experienced love like Jack did. This is more of a pick at MGS fans than the game :P to be honest if you think Raiden is a "pussy" or a crying little bitch. Then you really don't understand his character. At all. And same goes for his ending, it was well deserved. He deserved to be at peace, just like snake.

/rant

[Sephiroth_VII]

Agreed, Raiden was a pretty good character. I think people would've liked him a whole lot better if Kojima hadn't pulled the switch on us in MGS2.

[Z]

I liked the whole Akiba thing. it is pure Japanese humor and I like that. lol

Raiden is younger than I am and in MGS4 wasn't shown to be suffering much both emotionally and physically. hell, when he cut off his arm it was awesome...then they go back and it is af nothing ever happened to him. after all the stabs and injuries, he was shiny clean and perfect by the end and that destroys everything such hardship should have reflected on us the audience.

I won't talk about Raiden in MGS2 since it was all badly done- even by japanese standards. but in MGS4 he kicked ass and was very cool. they just didn't go with his new image all the way- or even half way.

[Z]

didn't like:

too many grey/white hair. I love white hair since I say Dante and countless anime before that. white hair is cool. but seeing everybody with it kind of wets the whole point of why white hair is cool; rarity. just like with the last DMC game, have two main characters with the same freakin' hair color ruins it. now we have Raiden and his kid (acceptable), but Sunny and Olga's reference? 4 character with a rare hair color just doesn't come out well no matter how well you spin it.

[Sephiroth_VII]

Considering how little we saw of the kid and Olga, I'd say it was acceptable :shrug:

[Passive]

Yeah that's getting pretty picky :s


won't talk about Raiden in MGS2 since it was all badly done- even by japanese standards.

Okay i'm gonna say wut? The whole lie about raiden was so perfectly done. The reason Kojima didn't show us was to show that there is information control even now, even from him. It was so damn clever that everyone belived they were going to play and snake. And 90% of fans didn't get that, they were just mad from the get go. -.- Raiden was never "badly done".

[LiquidEagle]

Raiden was/is awesome, and I loved his story in MGS4, and I loved Meryl & Johnny's. The only one that was lacking in the least was Mei Ling but that doesn't really matter, and what she had was pretty cool/funny.

[Z]

Considering how little we saw of the kid and Olga, I'd say it was acceptable :shrug:

Yeah that's getting pretty picky :s
let me put it in another way; it is cool to have a character to naturally have two different eye colors (it exists in real life, but again, it is rare). now, imagine seeing four of those in one game or story that not all of them are connected to each other.




Okay i'm gonna say wut?
I didn't say the character of Raiden is bad. I said it was badly done, as in not delivered in a well way. if we are talking about MGS2, he was the next best thing since Grey Fox, and look at how the character was designed and acted like; a spoiled teenage sissy. yeah, that's really hard core. even the BGC (Brokeback Gay Club) refused his resume.
if you are talking about MGS4, he was too much of an emo and drama queen even by MGS standards and, this is the important part, with no demonstrated emotional or physical suffering. what is his story? he can't get over his first ever female girlfriend? oh noz! give me a break. I felt more sorry for the Russian general and the black marine commander in MGS2 Tanker incident.
that is why I was complaining the little girl had it perfect in the end without suffering and how they ruined the only suffering shown of getting his arm cut off. apparently, having everything immediately replaceable and painless takes that effect away. he didn't even have a single needle or drip in him in that hospital room. what the hell is he even doing in a hospital room then? does the hospital even know he's there?!

Raiden as a character and an idea is great. not okay or good, but great. how that idea was presented and executed is a whole different story.

[Passive]

Sorry but im getting the impression you still don't understand his character if you call him emo or a sissy boy. He's fucked up man, emotionally and mentally, the stuff with rose was only a contibution to his pain. He was raised as a killer to eventually kill his own father figure. How would you deal with that? And why wouldnt his parts be replaceable? there is hardly anything left of him. and he wouldnt be on a drip because he's a machine. and if you looked carfully on the monitor in the room if had his genetic informaion and shown he has recently been on dialosis. He wasn't a sissy in MGS2 at all, you're anger about not playing as snake fueled hatred for a clearly very mis-understood character. The "idea" of raiden was delivered perfectly, we saw the emotional damage, the childhood as a soldier screwing him up, we saw the added pain from rose. Try and not conform to the masses and call him "emo" just because he shows a bit more emotion than the rest. if you want to point fingers at over acting melodramatics then say otacon, not Raiden.

I mean okay i sat here and read what you posted and saw it as your opinion on him. it is your opinion but that doesn't mean its right. I'm not trying to push you to like what they did with him or like the character as a whole but at least try and actaully see his past pain? and not just the fact that "man he's a ninja he shouldn't be like this he's meant to be hardcore" it's pure stupidity to want him to be fine and dandy with all the shit he's been through. Compare him to otacon, to meryl hell even to someone like Snake, he's been through way more than them, okay he's not a clone but he was raised to kill people. imagine yourself in his shoes and i'll bet you turn out "emo" aswell.

[Z]

first off, do not think the hate I have for Raiden in MGS2 is because i didn't play as Snake. I don't care who I play as as long as he is kick ass. and Raiden in that game is much, much better than snake. hell, he even somersaults instead of just diving. i hate him in MGS2 for how he was presented compared to his background story and build up. it's like talking up Rambo only to meet the Home Alone kid.

as for Raiden in MGS4, he was awesome as shit, but when it came to actual character as aposed to pure action, he was hollow, empty, nothing. one girlfriend problem? even Myrle, which is the stupidest character ever along with her "I hate daddy" bitching, had bigger issues to worry about.

it's pure stupidity to want him to be fine and dandy with all the shit he's been through.
and that is what I am saying; he is fine and dandy and it is stupid. if you try to play the emotion card then I can counter that by two answers specifically focusing on MGS4 since no reference was given to MGS2 and also, that is another discussion:

1- they didn't show any emotional suffering beyond one girl breakup that might not be a break up. it'l like the Friedns sti come with ROss and that other bitch and every episode people going "will they, won't they". oh, come the freak on.

2- the ONLY emotional 'problem' shown at all for Raiden was the aforementioned stupid girl problem. even Snake stresses the hell out of it and Raiden only more than thrilled to comply. it was all just too weak. all the other big characters had real complex issues that were not only more serious than his, but also often concern things much greater than one personal life; the sake of the world or nations. every main character that had dialogue other than Mei Ling, Myrl and her gang demonstrated this.

here is how I would wanted Raiden: make me feel sorry for him. make me forget ANY negativity due to misfortune and apathy. just like I said "damn!" when he cut off his arm and when he fought without hands (forever reason he didn't have his other hand or used his feet for more than the eding. but it was still cool). imagine seeing him at that bed on life support looking all messed up. looking at his bastard kid and whore wife. now that would be touching. you can't but feel sorry for someone so messed up no matter what they did. as an example, I don't know about you, but I felt so sorry for Psycho Mantis as he was dying- despite the fact he was an insane psychopath murdering scumbag. his death was so touching- along with Sniper Wolf's and others. that is something we didn't see the beauty Boss fights in MGS4. but other characters filled in so I can't complain- though it would've been heaps better if even them would've shown that much drama before kicking the bucket.


oh, and you don't have to hold back at all. I LOVE these deep and focused conversation, it is one of the beauty of there rarely deep and complex games. I don't imagine having such discussions for a non MGS or FF game. so unleash hell and let us enjoy! lol

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa188/shmookins/emos/goodjob.gif

[Passive]

oh, and you don't have to hold back at all. I LOVE these deep and focused conversation, it is one of the beauty of there rarely deep and complex games. I don't imagine having such discussions for a non MGS or FF game. so unleash hell and let us enjoy! lol

*darth vader voice* as you wish


i hate him in MGS2 for how he was presented compared to his background story and build up. it's like talking up Rambo only to meet the Home Alone kid.

I do agree with that to a certain extent except for i never felt i was being hyped for raiden to be a badass killer. It was already told this was his first feild mission, we didn't know he was a child soldier, we didn't know he was raised by solidus, all we knew about him was he VR trained and he was really green. So i wasn't surprised at all to see him crack under the pressure when asked to do things. As snake points out VR is very different from real life and as a child soldier i'll bet he would have never had been asked to fight soldiers like dead cell, or defuse bombs under pressure all while dealing with a nagging bitch in your ear all to find out it was all staged and a lie.


1- they didn't show any emotional suffering beyond one girl breakup that might not be a break up. it'l like the Friedns sti come with ROss and that other bitch and every episode people going "will they, won't they". oh, come the freak on.

2- the ONLY emotional 'problem' shown at all for Raiden was the aforementioned stupid girl problem. even Snake stresses the hell out of it and Raiden only more than thrilled to comply. it was all just too weak. all the other big characters had real complex issues that were not only more serious than his, but also often concern things much greater than one personal life; the sake of the world or nations. every main character that had dialogue other than Mei Ling, Myrl and her gang demonstrated this.


Okay first of all, it wasn't a "break up" everything he knew about rose was a lie, it was as if he had been with his own imagination so the wounds were a little deeper there than a normal "i think we should take a break" crap. In his eyes rose didn't exist therefore all the emotion he felt for her didnt exist and he thought he wasn't capable of love.

secondly, his "girl problem" is not the only thing he's dealing with. you would know this if you pay attention to the details. Yes he's got trouble with the ladies, it is alot worse than just a break up that much ive made clear. But Jack was litterally made to kill the man who raised him. He makes references to it all through MGS4 saying he is alone and has always been alone. This may sound like an "emo" statement but it 100% true. He has alway been alone. His entire life has been spent fighting enemies he's kown nothing about, killing because he was told to, being lied to about his parents, about the woman he loved, about his first mission. It has all added up to him being alone.

When someone is truely alone like that he loses all emotion but pain and self hate. Which is why he was willing to change his body, why he was willing to cut off his own arm, walk though the microwave. He doesn't care about himself because he sees he has nothing to live for, And yes snake tries to show him he has things to live for like rose. But look at it from Raidens perspective there? He doesn't have rose at that point, she's married to another man and they have a child. That is a deep knife.

Yes, the other big characters have big issues on a larger scale. In my opinion Raiden is dealing with those too. Just because he doesn't express his opinion on it doesn't mean he's not in the thick of it. He's problems do extend all the way to nations and more than his life, he's layed down his life countless times to save those around him and contibuted to the overall battle to "save the world" so really he has those issues along with the others. In some respects even more so, not only has he sacrificed his emotions to get jobs done but his body aswell. Which contibutes to his feeling of being alone, he doesn't even have his own body because he despises himself so much he thinks he can't do the job without a mchines help. This being a by product of others lying to him over the course of his life and making him feel worthless thorugh the realisation of those lies and lack of respect.


As to do with this ending haha. I will admit yes i didn't feel sorry for him seeing him laying on the bed with a full body and such. But it wasn't the point to feel sorry for him. That pitty was reserved for snake. Raiden has been through so much so he was rewarded with the truth, something he never experiences. he was given a family, something he's never had. The feeling intended here was happiness. To sit and smile and see finally Raiden has a reason to live and to love, to care about himself again. Well at least thats what i felt, not pitty.



not sure if any of what im saying makes actual sense :P i'm just spewing out what i think on the subject. I too love these type of discussions where we dive deeper into certain characters and plots.

[Gummy]

I would've love snake to die, but at the same time, I expected him to live on.

Felt like there was clues all over the damn game, well not all over.
just a few hints lol.

[TEEDA]

Just hated the way Meryl felt in love so easily with Johnny. At first side it was like he was scato or something lol and when he revealed his face he was like a heroic guy.
I don't have a teeth against him, but the kind of " love touche combined with humour " was a little to overdone I think.

And the battle against Vamp was to short I think...I would have loved fighting him twice or maybe thrice. And the boss battle seemd a little bit to easy...Even in Extreme mode ! Maybe it was made so that new comers and gamers could finish the game easily.

But I loved the story, the cutscenes, and the replaability and the graphics.

[Gummy]

I wanted to fight Vamp with Raiden, like I mentioned earlier, I really wanted to play Raiden.

DAMN YOU KOJIMA!

[Z]

It was already told this was his first feild mission, we didn't know he was a child soldier
whis always boggled me: how can a child soldier have his first mission in his 20's?
Jack was litterally made to kill the man who raised him
that is a moot point since he never showed any emotions at all of any kind twoards Solidus. it was the other way around; it was Solidus that pained. I don't think Raiden even knew it was Solidus that raised him, I am not sure. but I think he doesn't know that Solidus was the one who killed his parents. in any case, since he was completed indifferent twards Solidus, him killing him or leaving him be is all the same.
He makes references to it all through MGS4 saying he is alone and has always been alone. This may sound like an "emo" statement but it 100% true. He has alway been alone.
it is true, and it is still weak and boring. 'being alone' in and of itself is nothing special, important or big. showing real loss, pain, injury and so on is. his ONLY dilemma being "is my girlfriend even real or not" is stupid and questions his IQ and it certainly doesn't encourage apathy from viewers.

When someone is truely alone like that he loses all emotion but pain and self hate.
again, being alone as a sole reason isn't good enough. many of us in the world are alone, there is nothing special about that. in fact, most of us that are alone are due to actually 'losing' someone. that didn't happen to Raiden since the only person he 'may' have knew may have been a figment of his imagination. :I lost my imaginary friend!" that sentence,somehow doesn't result in empathy. and even if she was real, so what? it isn't your kin or long loved wife. it's only a girlfriend that they repeatedly and clearly shown that their bond wasn't strong to begin with.
also, the imagine of a cold hearted child soldier killing white devil machine having a 'girlfriend' with such weak drama conflicts with the whole image and point of the character.

Which is why he was willing to change his body
we still need to know if he even had a choice in that- which I don't think so.

why he was willing to cut off his own arm, walk though the microwave. He doesn't care about himself because he sees he has nothing to live for
he doesn't have anything better to do and the cutting off a limb stund was rendered pointless if it didn't do anything to him. he has a perfectly nice arm and whole body after everything he supposed;y went through. you can't make me feel sorry for a car when it gets damaged. you can fix it. it is losing something irreplaceable that get's people to sympathies with you.
and yes, he doesn't have anything to live for because he is nothing. Snake has nothing and nobody to live for as well. but the monumental difference between ALL the characters and Raiden is that non of them, not a single one, fight for any person or personal issues; they all fight as their duty; their duty to something much bigger than themselves or a few people. they all fight for their countries or the sake of mankind.

And yes snake tries to show him he has things to live for like rose.
it's the only reason Snake tries to convince him of, and it didn't work so he immediately switched to 'you still have your youth' which has to be the last resort. heck, it is even used in comedy when something goes wrong and someone says: "well, at least you still have your health" then people laugh.
seriously, have you run out of any reasons to resort to that? another thing is, NO other character would even accept such reasoning or persuasion because non of them gave any importance to their or their comrades that much value. they had bigger responsibilities to worry about; that of nations or the future of humanity.

But look at it from Raidens perspective there? He doesn't have rose at that point, she's married to another man and they have a child. That is a deep knife. nobody knew about the child, but regardless, what you are doing here is trying to reach any empathy, but what are you saying? I should feel sad because a guy lost his girlfriend? tough luck Suzy. shit happens. that ain't good enough. it would've been a whole different far, far more important person or object than that. that bond was never even shown to be strong to begin with.

Yes, the other big characters have big issues on a larger scale. In my opinion Raiden is dealing with those too. Just because he doesn't express his opinion on it doesn't mean he's not in the thick of it.
he certainly doesn't show that he even has the slightest clue where he even is.

He's problems do extend all the way to nations and more than his life, he's layed down his life countless times to save those around him and contibuted to the overall battle to "save the world" so really he has those issues along with the others.
nope. he was a child soldier: no allegiance, no relations, no bonds, no self awareness. nothing. that would've been a strong point to build up on, but not by an extremely weak and poor 'girlfriend' twist to it.

[Z]

the kind of " love touche combined with humour " was a little to overdone I think.
purely Japanese. most non-Japanese won't get that and will hate that part.


I really wanted to play Raiden.

DAMN YOU KOJIMA!

that is the price you pay for hating on Kojima for making you play his at first. he is somewhere out there laughing his butt off for that particular reason.

[curryking1]

Just hated the way Meryl felt in love so easily with Johnny. At first side it was like he was scato or something lol and when he revealed his face he was like a heroic guy.
I don't have a teeth against him, but the kind of " love touche combined with humour " was a little to overdone I think.

Absolutely hated that too.

It didn't feel like it was actually happening. It just was. It looked silly and ridiculous and was a major mistake in my opinion.

Just like many segments in the ending.

[Passive]

I can't be fucked quoting all those XD

I think it's really coming down to personal experience here. Raiden is my 2nd favrourite character so i must have felt differently from what you did.


I loved johnny and meryl getting together haha it was great ^^

[Bsack]

The ONLY thing I hated about this game was the fact I couldn't break anyone's neck. I absolutely had a blast doing that in the first two titles.

[Z]

The ONLY thing I hated about this game was the fact I couldn't break anyone's neck. I absolutely had a blast doing that in the first two titles.
that was great. but I also LOVED how in 3 you could control the knife to the neck with the analogue stick. you could stab someone in the neck then move the knife to slit his throat as fast or as slow as you want. :)

I can't be fucked quoting all those XD

you don't have to. :) the jist of it is that I think there is a very cool character but wasn't handled properly. if someone is playing 4 for the first time, they wouldn't have a single clue who this character was at all- or all the others, really. story and character wise, this game is heavily based on the previous games.

[Gegenki]

purely Japanese. most non-Japanese won't get that and will hate that part.


whilst japanese humour is over the top in general it came as a parody to mr and mrs smith movie. The only problem being the sequence went on too long. Also didn't like the minor fact that they slowed down the reloading. IT woulda looked awesome at full speed

[The Wolf 07]

Things i loved

Comedy in the game ( example would be when the two were talking about getting married in a huge fire fight )

Loved how all the side stories came together at the end

Liked how the game can be played as sneaking or as rambo

and last i like the online as a squad based shooter ( but it can be quite slow at times and lose alot of action )

Things i hated

Long cut scenes that had action in the. i am fine if the cut is talking and explaining story line's BUT i am not ok when you have a sick liquid vs solid face of in the middle of the game, and you have to sit there and watch him get his ass kicked LAME. OR when raiden was taking on vamp for the last time and you couldn't even watch it because you had to blow up the armor suits with explosives on them.

I also didn't like the dumb jokes about the blue ray disc from otocon and the even worse one from psycho mantis about the memory card and rubble on the controller ( These jokes really take you out of the game when they happen.)

Besides that and some weird AI that would run over you and not notice i loved the game and am still owning on MGO.

[gnznroses]

I hated that enemies kept respawning in the warzones and you couldnt completley win a couple of them by aiding the militia but could only help win a few.

I wouldnt say i hated but i thought the bosses in MGS3 seriously pissed on MGS4 bosses in terms of how cool they were and how tactically they were presented to you. I mean comon fighting the fear was taken straight out of predator, the end was the best boss fight ever for me, the fury with the awesome fire effects, metal gear shagahod fight, volgin fight were amazing and the boss fight need i say more. The MGS4 boss fights pale in comparison.

agreed. the last fight with ocelot was good, but the other bosses, not so much.

[curryking1]

The thing with the bosses... They turned the game into a third person shooter. Are third person shooters really that fun and creative? Did MGS4 take a third person shooter game up a notch? I thought it was doing much better with it's own personal style and advancing that forward with every game.

So when you are from a third person perspective playing... the whole gameplan changes right? All the indications of what is happening have to occur in a different way. The layout of levels is no longer lanes and symmetric... but maybe all that is for the worse?

Especially if the player chooses what they see... the directors of the game have to operate with that in mind... it's not going to look the same if the player can look up, down, left, right for the whole duration.

I still wonder... did the level design and personality and style take a loss with freedom of the camera?

Also the bosses from MGS3 were pure epic. Each was a class act, and not much compares to those encounters. But that's also independent from my opinion on the purpose of the camera angle.

[Z]

also, I feel all the bosses are approached the same way. in the first two games, every boss made you fight him in a different way. in 4 (and probably most of 3) you just shoot them till they die. there was one quirk with Vamp and a psycho mantis-girl and that's pretty much it. maybe that is why I like the very awkward controls of the final fist-fight; because it was a breath of fresh air.

[gnznroses]

the last fight was good. though really easy.

[curryking1]

also, I feel all the bosses are approached the same way. in the first two games, every boss made you fight him in a different way. in 4 (and probably most of 3) you just shoot them till they die. there was one quirk with Vamp and a psycho mantis-girl and that's pretty much it. maybe that is why I like the very awkward controls of the final fist-fight; because it was a breath of fresh air.

A-***king men man...

[Sephiroth_VII]

the last fight was good. though really easy.

The higher difficulties would like to have a word with you....

[gnznroses]

something else that really bugs me:
in the middle east - bullets hitting the ground all around you when it's completely impossible for anyone to have a shot at you.

[curryking1]

That was kind of weird. It was obvious what the goal was to do that... but I didn't think it did the greatest job.

For more similar effect I would've like more smoke blowing and trash flying in the air. Ask any good aspiring director or probably even professional director... smoke = win. ;)