Did the Patriots A.I. Become Self-Aware?

[Bull]

I mentioned this briefly in my personal review on the game in the thread with 9 pages...but wanted to talk about it more in-depth because it wasn't really expanded on in the game (at least not with regard to the actual nature of the A.I.).

It seems as if the artificial intelligence Major Zero created to carry out the vision of The Boss eventually became self-aware and the actions of so many MGS games weren't the actions of people per se, but of one massive Matrix-esque artificial brain via GW, AL, TJ, TR, and lastly JD. The Military-Industrial Complex was mentioned a few times as if it were a product of the Patriots (or the A.I.). I guess I would like to know (or rather have a discussion) about the depth to which Zero actually influenced what the Patriots eventually became. I mean, we know he obviously eventually loses control of it...but the A.I. would have needed the help of people who was aware of it EVENTUALLY. Because at the end of the day, we weren't fighting an army of I, Robots...but people. Though the nanomachines played a big role in this level of control...we don't really see that until Guns of the Patriots.

Is this where someone like Ocelot comes into play? Was he just a willing pawn? But then that goes against his admiration of Big Boss.

[curryking1]

Welcome to the forums Bull.

I dunno to be honest. It may be I just wasn't paying attention enough to details of what they were actually trying to talk about during some of the talk-heavy scenes about GW and JD and the others...

But from whatever impression I got, I don't think it became self aware.

I think the makers made a point to say this that a machine would always be a machine. It's self awareness may have been completely arbitrary in the makers' context because they really wanted to push the point that the machine was kind of always destined to go a certain route and for some infinite loop.

And at some point that loop would be where it felt it made some 'equilibrium' or something at some most desirable set of circumstances according to whatever crazy programming job it was set out to do.

So regardless if it was self aware or not, it was going to do some particular thing and that ended up being the endless proxy wars to run the govern most of the world.

Also about Zero, I think he only had little hand in what the AI ended up becoming. I think he wanted it to become one thing but it ended up controlling a few too many factors and having too much control and the AI used that to further it's purpose of... not exactly sure what to say the purpose was though.

About Ocelot... I don't think he was a pawn, but he was willing to enter the 'game' to finish his job.

Basically he is exactly like The Boss. He fools everyone, his enemies, his allies, double crosses the entire world and only at the end do you finally see that he played a large role in saving the world I guess.

But the Boss' exit seemed to have a little more class, she didn't seem a little crazy when she died. I'm not sure that Ocelot really 'needed' to fight Snake at the end but he did anyway because he wanted to that badly or something lol.

That's a good question though (the main one). Too bad my reply sucks, but oh well lol.

[Z]

the AI didn't become self-aware at all. what happened was, they made the AI so complex. initially, it worked as intended. but the thing is, being a machine, it chose options that were 'better' for the human kind in pure technical temrs and numbers than in other things that the machine couldn't understand like emotions and freedom. Big Boss says it himself that the end results of the Patriots could never have been foreseen and that Zero actually did a good thing out of good intentions. it just didn't end up as planned and thus he had to pay for that 'mistake' with his life- and by Big Boss's hand, of all people.

Bigg Boss, Ocelot, Liquid and Solidus were actually the real heroes all along. in fact, it was Snake that didn't know what the hell was going on. or maybe, Snake is, as in Kojima's interpretation, us 'the players'.
a big explanation of this appears in MGS2 especially just before Raiden fought Solidus. it clearly showed that Solidus was right and he had a great cause and that the Patriots were wrong. hell if I know why that idiot still chose to go with the Patriots and fight the greatest Patriot of all; Solidus. man, that character rocked.

[Bull]

the AI didn't become self-aware at all. what happened was, they made the AI so complex. initially, it worked as intended. but the thing is, being a machine, it chose options that were 'better' for the human kind in pure technical temrs and numbers than in other things that the machine couldn't understand like emotions and freedom. Big Boss says it himself that the end results of the Patriots could never have been foreseen and that Zero actually did a good thing out of good intentions. it just didn't end up as planned and thus he had to pay for that 'mistake' with his life- and by Big Boss's hand, of all people.

Bigg Boss, Ocelot, Liquid and Solidus were actually the real heroes all along. in fact, it was Snake that didn't know what the hell was going on. or maybe, Snake is, as in Kojima's interpretation, us 'the players'.
a big explanation of this appears in MGS2 especially just before Raiden fought Solidus. it clearly showed that Solidus was right and he had a great cause and that the Patriots were wrong. hell if I know why that idiot still chose to go with the Patriots and fight the greatest Patriot of all; Solidus. man, that character rocked.

It actually makes Snake look like he was working for the "bad guys" if you look at it like that. But this is one of those games where the lines between bad guys and good guys are blurred and very dependent on who's giving you the orders. I mean Ocelot and Solidus did orchestrate the whole Tanker incident where they killed military soldiers. And took another President hostage.

[Z]

It actually makes Snake look like he was working for the "bad guys" if you look at it like that.
like with every consperacy story out there, the main hero, Snake in this case, is never given the full picture on why is he doing what he is doing and at what cost. he figures it along the way and procedes occordingly- usually in the same set pathway he was told to follow. doesn't make sense, I know.

but in Raiden's case specifically, the distinction was very clear. I still don't know why he carried out with it. maybe it is deliberate to make the gamer know and feel himself making a big mistake?


I mean Ocelot and Solidus did orchestrate the whole Tanker incident where they killed military soldiers.
like with The Boss, sacrifices had to be made. there was no way in hell you could hijack Ray without killing. everyone, every single hero in the game (even including the most oblivious; Snake) made severe sacrifices. the cause was too grand to overlook due to a life or two.

And took another President hostage.
the President hostage in MGS2 actually went to Big Shell and to 'enemy hands' willingly so he could strike a secret deal to join the Patriots. it was all a set up. Solidus was the greatest president the US has ever know for his entire role he played. :)