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=NukeBlaze=
09-20-2008, 12:53 PM
http://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/Mormon_Church_Handbook_of_Instructions_(1999)


Its available in PDF as released as a confidential document by wikileaks.

Some of the material is interesting on the guild lines for church leaders.

Nothing interesting on Catholicism yet, except some catholic hospital abortion reports.

Here is an excerpt from the PDF, its interesting to see various views on certain subjects.


Adoption and Foster Care
See pages 147 and 160.
Artificial Insemination
Artificial insemination with semen from anyone but the husband is strongly discouraged.
However, this is a personal matter that ultimately must be left to the judgment of the husband
and wife. Responsibility for the decision rests solely upon them.
Artificial insemination of single sisters is not approved. Single sisters who deliberately refuse to
follow the counsel of their Church leaders in this matter are subject to Church discipline.
For information about the sealing of children who were conceived by artificial insemination, see
page 75.

Birth Control
It is the privilege of married couples who are able to bear children to provide mortal bodies for
the spirit children of God, whom they are then responsible to nurture and rear. The decision as
to how many children to have and when to have them is extremely intimate and private and
should be left between the couple and the Lord. Church members should not judge one another
in this matter.
Married couples also should understand that sexual relations within marriage are divinely
approved not only for the purpose of procreation, but also as a means of expressing love and
strengthening emotional and spiritual bonds between husband and wife.

Chastity and Fidelity
The Lord's law of moral conduct is abstinence from sexual relations outside of lawful marriage
and fidelity within marriage. Sexual relations are proper only between husband and wife,
expressed within the bonds of marriage. Adultery, fornication, homosexual or lesbian relations,
and every other unholy, unnatural, or impure practice are sinful. Members who violate the
Lord's law of moral conduct or who influence others to do so are subject to Church discipline
(see First Presidency letter, 14 Nov. 1991).

Euthanasia
See page 156.
Page 158


Homosexual Behavior
Homosexual behavior violates the commandments of God, is contrary to the purposes of human
sexuality, distorts loving relationships, and deprives people of the blessings that can be found in
family life and in the saving ordinances of the gospel. Those who persist in such behavior or
who influence others to do so are subject to Church discipline. Homosexual behavior can be
forgiven through sincere repentance.
If members have homosexual thoughts or feelings or engage in homosexual behavior, Church
leaders should help them have a clear understanding of faith in Jesus Christ, the process of
repentance, and the purpose of life on earth. Leaders also should help them accept responsibility
for their thoughts and actions and apply gospel principles in their lives.
In addition to the inspired assistance of Church leaders, members may need professional
counseling. When appropriate, bishops should contact LDS Social Services to identify resources
to provide such counseling in harmony with gospel principles.
For additional suggestions, stake presidents and bishops may refer to the booklet
Understanding and Helping Those Who Have Homosexual Problems: Suggestions for
Ecclesiastical Leaders. See also "Same-Gender Marriages" on this page.

In Vitro Fertilization
In vitro fertilization using semen from anyone but the husband or an egg from anyone but the
wife is strongly discouraged. However, this is a personal matter that ultimately must be left to
the judgment of the husband and wife, with responsibility for the decision resting solely upon
them.
For information about the sealing of children who were conceived by in vitro fertilization, see
page 75.

Occult Affiliation
Members should not engage in forms of so-called Satan worship or affiliate in any way with the
occult. "Such activities are among the works of darkness spoken of in the scriptures. They are
designed to destroy one's faith in Christ, and will jeopardize the salvation of those who
knowingly promote this wickedness. These things should not be pursued as games, be topics in
Church meetings, or be delved into in private, personal conversations" (First Presidency letter,
18 Sept. 1991).

Pornography
The Church opposes pornography in any form. Members should stay away from pornographic
material and oppose its production, dissemination, and use.

Prolonging Life
See page 156.

Same-Gender Marriages
The Church opposes same-gender marriages and any efforts to legalize such marriages. Church
members are encouraged "to appeal to legislators, judges, and other government officials to
preserve the purposes and sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman, and to reject all
efforts to give legal authorization or other official approval or support to marriages between
persons of the same gender" (First Presidency letter, 1 Feb. 1994; see also "Homosexual
Behavior" on this page).

Sex Education
Parents have primary responsibility for the sex education of their children. Teaching this subject
honestly and plainly in the home will help young people avoid serious moral transgressions. To
help parents teach this sensitive and important information, the Church has published A
Parent's Guide.
Where schools have undertaken sex education, parents should seek to ensure that the
instructions given to their children are consistent with sound moral and ethical values.

Sperm Donation
The donation of sperm is strongly discouraged.

Suicide
It is wrong to take a life, even one's own. However, a person who commits suicide may not be
responsible for his or her acts. Only God can judge such a matter.
Leaders should counsel and compassionately console the family members of a person who has
committed suicide. The family, in consultation with the bishop, determines the place and nature
of a funeral service for a person who has died under such circumstances. Church facilities may
be used.
Page 159
A person who has seriously considered suicide or has attempted suicide should be counseled by
his or her bishop and may be encouraged to seek professional help. For more information, see
Identification and Prevention of Suicidal Behavior.

frosty
09-20-2008, 05:15 PM
I can't really say I see anything listed there as "wrong". It all stays within the bounds of the Christian faith. More importantly, the wording is polite and non-condemning. You don't hear about hell once in any of that. They aren't using fear to preach their message, which I approve (even though I don't follow their added-on parts of the bible).

(Note that I'm only referring to the text posted, I didn't read the rest)

=NukeBlaze=
09-20-2008, 05:53 PM
I didn't mean to imply anything was wrong.

Its contained in "its interesting to see various views on certain subjects."

Bryan
09-21-2008, 10:31 PM
They have their thing, I have mine.

frosty
09-21-2008, 10:52 PM
I didn't mean to imply anything was wrong.

Its contained in "its interesting to see various views on certain subjects."

Gotcha...

Either way, I don't follow organized religion. I don't believe in a fixed set of rules to abide by which is determined by another sinner based upon mistranslated ancient texts which were only intended to be used as recommendations anyway. There have been only 10 "commandments" that I know of... The rest is debatable.

LaLiLuLeLo
09-22-2008, 12:34 AM
Gotcha...

Either way, I don't follow organized religion. I don't believe in a fixed set of rules to abide by which is determined by another sinner based upon mistranslated ancient texts which were only intended to be used as recommendations anyway. There have been only 10 "commandments" that I know of... The rest is debatable.

I would argue that Christ gave us the church, and faith without community is hardly a faith worth having.

IEatFriedPikmin
09-22-2008, 01:22 AM
How my church handles homosexual behavior seems to have changed a little. They now admit that homosexuality may not be a choice. One thing I do like about my church concerning the issue is that they tend to be more "loving" concerning those who deal with the issue... or at least that is how they are suppose to act. Everyone in the church whom I have encountered has handled it well.

I am still firmly against their actions to get involved with same-sex marriages.

But yeah, all that sounds right.

Khaos
09-22-2008, 02:02 AM
True IEFP, this is from 1999, so I do notice some progress in that area as well. Hopefully it will keep up that progression, and other churches will follow suit.

Also, I love Wikileaks!

D3adcell
09-22-2008, 03:43 AM
Funny how it says about the occult, yet joseph smith sr was a master freemason.

Not that anything is wrong with what it says, just thought that was interesting.

IEatFriedPikmin
09-22-2008, 04:05 AM
1. How is being a freemason considered Satanic...
2. If it is contradictory, was he a freemason before the Church was organized?

frosty
09-22-2008, 04:24 AM
I am still firmly against their actions to get involved with same-sex marriages.


Why? that is stupid... either follow the faith, or give it up. The faith CLEARLY defines marriage as a sacred union of man and woman, so if you can't take the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen.

1. How is being a freemason considered Satanic...

There are many aspects of freemasonry that are deeply rooted in the occult. Not satanic per se, but still occult which is also strictly forbidden in the religion.

Viper
09-22-2008, 04:31 AM
Funny how it says about the occult, yet joseph smith sr was a master freemason.

Not that anything is wrong with what it says, just thought that was interesting.

Freemasons were satanic, Luciferian, in the classic sense which meant enlightened thinkers, not in the modern sense which refers to devil worship.

IEatFriedPikmin
09-22-2008, 04:40 AM
Why? that is stupid... either follow the faith, or give it up. The faith CLEARLY defines marriage as a sacred union of man and woman, so if you can't take the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen.


Hehe... it's not that easy. Kinda a long story, but to put it lightly, I was born and raised Mormon. I deeply appreciate how I was raised, because I do believe it made me a better person. I also believe my Church has a lot of truth in it. There are just parts of it I can't deny at all. I love the Mormon Church as a whole. I think they do a lot of good... and for the most part, it helps me live the life I desire. Not one religion out there is necessarily "perfect" in my eyes. I think this one just suits me best.

And yes, I believe organized religion is important to have due to the support it can provide.

frosty
09-22-2008, 04:41 AM
Then FOLLOW IT. You can't nitpick the parts of it you want and still call yourself a mormon. doesn't work that way.

Just like a straight person can't sleep with those of the same sex and still claim to be straight. You're either one or the other. You can't just create your own reality and expect those around you to conform to your vision of how you think your reality should be. The world doesn't revolve around you. Either you follow them, or you leave them.

Viper
09-22-2008, 04:43 AM
Then FOLLOW IT. You can't nitpick the parts of it you want and still call yourself a mormon. doesn't work that way.

Why not? Isn't that what an overwhelming majority of Christians do anyway?

If every Christian was subject to the rules and regulations presented by their faith, well....you get the idea.

IEatFriedPikmin
09-22-2008, 04:43 AM
Frosty, Where in my Church handbook does it say I have to agree with their stance on same-sex marriage? It's not there! I can't be kicked out for disagreeing on the stance. Trust me, I have looked into it.

Just because I am a member doesn't mean I am going to follow my faith blindly. Read what I just wrote. Mormonism suits me best. My lifestyle is most closely related to Mormonism, hence I consider myself Mormon when describing my faith.

frosty
09-22-2008, 04:57 AM
your little handbook means nothing. The church bases it's faith on the bible. If you don't agree with the bible, you do not agree with your church, plain and simple. If you don't follow the teachings in the bible, you are not a mormon.

the handbook only illustrates the church's position on things that aren't defined in the bible. Marriage, however, is... so their stance is that of the bible's.

On top of that, read their handbook's stance on homosexual behavior. To not agree with same sex marriage is to not agree with homosexual behavior, as they're one and the same (as in you have to have the behavior to have the marriage).

To say "where does it say I have to agree to be a mormon?" is just like saying "where does it say I have to agree with following drug laws to be arrested for violating them?"

The contents of the handbook are requirements you must follow to be a mormon.

IEatFriedPikmin
09-22-2008, 05:27 AM
Frosty, are you assuming I practice homosexual behavior> I don't think I have ever stated that I did (although I was in a relationship last year, which has ended for the record).

Also, the whole root of my disagreement is with the Church getting involved with Proposition 8 in CA, which I am firmly against, since I don't believe my religion should get into politics. I am not siding with whether or not same-sex marriage is good or bad.

This is what I said:
I am still firmly against their actions to get involved with same-sex marriages.

Trust me... I have done my research regarding my stance on the subject and whether or not it conflicts with the Church. You are asking a guy who has been dealing with homosexuality and Mormons for years. I know what is ok and not ok.

frosty
09-22-2008, 05:47 AM
I too don't believe religion and politics should mix (as in having laws drafted based upon religious belief), however when it comes to how someone votes, that is based upon their beliefs and who they are. For a church to encourage followers to vote in a way that is in line with their faith, there's nothing wrong with that. If they choose to follow the faith, they should always do so, not just when they're in church.

Khaos
09-22-2008, 01:54 PM
I highly doubt every member of every church agrees 100% with every last one of their church's policies. In fact, people who don't ever question the authenticity of their faith's policies are, in my safest words, idiots. "Frosty, you need to follow the Christian faith or leave it. The Bible explicitly says to follow the laws of your nation unless they directly go against God's laws. So because you smoke pot, you are not a Christian." I would counter argue that it is you who makes your faith, and you can follow any church you damn well please.

IEatFriedPikmin
09-22-2008, 03:05 PM
I too don't believe religion and politics should mix (as in having laws drafted based upon religious belief), however when it comes to how someone votes, that is based upon their beliefs and who they are. For a church to encourage followers to vote in a way that is in line with their faith, there's nothing wrong with that. If they choose to follow the faith, they should always do so, not just when they're in church.

I don't get it... do you want me to follow my faith blindly?

When it comes to Proposition 8, the Church encourages members to give of their time and efforts to support it. It's not a commandment and you will not be held accountable if you do not support Prop 8.

=NukeBlaze=
09-22-2008, 07:16 PM
Either way, I don't follow organized religion. I don't believe in a fixed set of rules to abide by which is determined by another sinner based upon mistranslated ancient texts which were only intended to be used as recommendations anyway. There have been only 10 "commandments" that I know of... The rest is debatable.

--------------------------------------------------------------

your little handbook means nothing. The church bases it's faith on the bible. If you don't agree with the bible, you do not agree with your church, plain and simple. If you don't follow the teachings in the bible, you are not a mormon.

the handbook only illustrates the church's position on things that aren't defined in the bible. Marriage, however, is... so their stance is that of the bible's.

On top of that, read their handbook's stance on homosexual behavior. To not agree with same sex marriage is to not agree with homosexual behavior, as they're one and the same (as in you have to have the behavior to have the marriage).

To say "where does it say I have to agree to be a mormon?" is just like saying "where does it say I have to agree with following drug laws to be arrested for violating them?"

The contents of the handbook are requirements you must follow to be a mormon.

Then FOLLOW IT. You can't nitpick the parts of it you want and still call yourself a mormon. doesn't work that way.

Just like a straight person can't sleep with those of the same sex and still claim to be straight. You're either one or the other. You can't just create your own reality and expect those around you to conform to your vision of how you think your reality should be. The world doesn't revolve around you. Either you follow them, or you leave them.

Why? that is stupid... either follow the faith, or give it up. The faith CLEARLY defines marriage as a sacred union of man and woman, so if you can't take the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen.



You may wish to modify the first responce a little bit so it better interacts with the rest. There exists an odd disconnection between them, as now worded.

frosty
09-22-2008, 09:57 PM
No need to correct anything. I said I DON'T FOLLOW organized religion. I said nothing about others following it. If you are going to follow something, follow it! Otherwise, don't label yourself as such. That's what I'm getting at.

I can call myself christian because I follow the teachings of Christ... but I don't have the right to call myself baptist, catholic, mormon, protestant, or whatever else because I don't follow the guidelines put forth by those denominations. Same applies to pikmin.

I don't get it... do you want me to follow my faith blindly?

Not at all, but do follow your faith. If you want to call yourself a mormon, do as they teach. You can question the teachings to your church leaders and talk your disagreements out with them, but if they say something isn't in line with their teachings, you should listen to them. It isn't about blind faith, but about being devout to your faith. If you don't identify with your faith anymore, look towards another.

As for prop 8, the same thing applies. If you truly believe the teachings of your faith, then you should vote as such (your beliefs should reflect in your everyday life). If you do not believe them, then you can't call yourself mormon. That said, I can understand not wanting to vote on an issue that involves church and state. But, this is something that individuals in one state are voting on. It's not like it's a federal thing where it applies to everyone. If there are more people in a state that want something one way, it should be that way. Those who do not want it, if outnumbered by the majority, can always go to another state. That's the one thing I enjoy most about keeping rights to the states rather than the feds deciding issues like this. This is one area where you should vote what you believe. If you believe in mormon teachings, vote as such.

It isn't an issue of blind faith, but an issue of actually believing in what you claim to believe in. You always have the right to remove yourself from the faith and find a denomination that suits your viewpoint better, just don't masquerade as something you are not.

IEatFriedPikmin
09-23-2008, 04:26 AM
Frosty, I'm not going to debate about my religion, but in all honesty, what you are saying is just your opinion, not fact. You aren't telling me anything you haven't already said, and I don't have anything new to tell you.

I'm not going to give up my membership as a Mormon my views differ on one issue. What you are asking is pretty much impossible for anyone. In fact, I think that is stupid, because if everyone did that, organized religion would be useless and probably wouldn't exist.

My Church never said I must support Prop 8, they encouraged. There is a HUGE difference. It's not a commandment. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with such an issue. I have talked to my Dad and leaders about it, and they all tell me the same thing.

I'm not disagreeing with anything my Church preaches in my eyes. I am not doing anything wrong in their eyes.

Bryan
09-23-2008, 01:31 PM
Funny how it says about the occult, yet joseph smith sr was a master freemason.

Not that anything is wrong with what it says, just thought that was interesting.

The goat wasn't real, Noah.

1. How is being a freemason considered Satanic...

You're right, it isn't. But some of us dabble more than others. I don't consider the occult to be only related to Satanism. Its a very large playing field, and I only have a minute right now.. but I'm telling you man, Satanism is a minute part of anything, much less "the occult" as a category. The idea of "the occult" as a general category seems pretty ridiculous to me to begin with, but I won't try to convince you. Your choice, not mine.

2. If it is contradictory, was he a freemason before the Church was organized?

No. He petitioned after the church was organized. It's speculated that he was looking for friends. His message at the time wasn't the most popular. But we can talk tons later if you're interested.

Black Dragon37
09-23-2008, 01:58 PM
There have been only 10 "commandments" that I know of... The rest is debatable.I thought there were 2.