goodbye laptop, you served thee well... hello pc!

[masonite]

Well finally, 18 months after my cooling fan started to die, my laptop has left this plain of existence . tried to turn it on a couple of days ago and it stalled about 30 seconds after starting up. turning off and on again saw the power come on, but the screen stays blank. leaving it for a couple of hours sees the 30 seconds then stall thing happen again so i think it might be the processor- in any case i dont want to spend any money finding out/fixing it, its a stock standard lappie bought in 2005 so its basically a netbook now anyway.

On the bright side,however,is the fact that inow get to buy a new computer, and im considering going the desktop route this time as i dont need the mobility (no more uni). which is where the revheads of the tech forums come in. : ) I realise theres been a lot of "new pc advice" threads on the forum lately, but all involve us dollars and a mysterious place called "newegg" which doesnt really help me,being from aus and all. besides, i get the feeling some of you guys enjoy this kind of thing. : )

So basically what im after is a pc capable of playing latest games at decent settings, and being capable of encoding video nice and quick. storage isnt all that important- 500GiB is all im after, but id like a decent graphics card. wireless internet is a must,as i have no wired connection in my room. monitor im abit iffy about- ive got a 37" bravia on the desk where the monitor would sit, so another screen seems redundant - but the tv is overkill. i can always survive with th tv for a little while though, butit means a pc with a hdmi port is a must. budget is 2 grand AUD,but going a couple of hundred over is fine. This?ll also be the first pc ive even attempted to build (might still even go for the top spec compaq off the hp.com.au website as i can get it at cost, but im hoping building my own will be the better value option). i also dont quite understand the deal with mobos and psu?s- how do know what works with what? most other things im ok with, its just those two that seem like a black art.

thanks in advance guys, its much appreciated - particularly since im not sure how many more posts of this size i cantype up on my ps3 ; )

[Viper]

We'll use Tigerdirect.com. They ship internationally and are almost as good as Newegg with prices and service. I'll link to the product page but the figures I provide will be the Australian conversion rate of the US sale price. Might not make it 100% accurate but should be close.


CPU:
Intel C2Q Q9400 - $352 AUD
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4089664

Motherboard:
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P - $213 AUD
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4410102&CatId=13

Power Supply:
PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750-Watt - $160 AUD
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3901540&CatId=106

GPU:
Sapphire Radeon HD4870 - $275 AUD
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4459666&CatId=3670

RAM:
Corsair XMS2 4 GB (2x2GB) DDR2 1066 - $106 AUD
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4352320&CatId=2261

HDD:
Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB - $167
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4034139&CatId=139

Optical Drive:
Lite On DVD Burner - $44 AUD
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4445413&CatId=1624

Case:
Apevia X-Jupiter Jr.G - $121
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3424761&Sku=A107-1096

Wi-Fi Adapter:
D-Link WDA-1320 PCI Wireless Network Adapter - $44

Monitor: **
Samsung T260 26" 1920x1200 LCD - $736 AUD
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3920265&CatId=12



Total - $2,218 AUD

** - TigerDirect's monitor options were horrible. I'd advise skipping the monitor here and getting it elsewhere especially since you already have an HDTV to hook it up to.

Total W/O monitor - $1,482 AUD
~$961 USD.

[curryking1]

Why aren't you getting a new laptop?

*kidding, I read your post ;-]

[masonite]

wow, thanks for that viper. That case looks pretty sexy. One thing ive wondered about though - is the amount of ram in the graphics card more/less important than the card itself? it seems like there are some cheaper options that have more ram out there, is there any way of telling whats more important?

and regarding the ram, is there much of a difference between DDR2 and DDR3 (in both price and performance)? That looks like a great price for the specs - if i were to spend a bit more in any area, which would it be? GPU?


hehehe curry, you're lucky im on a pc at work before my shift starts, or id be throwing my controller at you ;)

[Garfunkel]

The build is ok, but I wouldn't go with the 1TB HDD. I would much rather go for 2x512 for safety purposes, even if it costed me more.

wow, thanks for that viper. That case looks pretty sexy. One thing ive wondered about though - is the amount of ram in the graphics card more/less important than the card itself? it seems like there are some cheaper options that have more ram out there, is there any way of telling whats more important?

The card itself is more important. It has been common practise for card makers to market their product as a "1GB video card!", when the card itself uses crippled memory and a slow clock, these are usually the cheaper lines.


and regarding the ram, is there much of a difference between DDR2 and DDR3 (in both price and performance)? That looks like a great price for the specs - if i were to spend a bit more in any area, which would it be? GPU?

Not a great difference. This machine is fairly well balanced so if you wanted to put extra money in somewhere personally I would probably go the core i7 route but it's up to you. Either way the machine will last you the same amount of time.

[curryking1]

If you're still angry masonite, you could always throw the keyboard. ;-]

If it's bluetooth I'll even keep it for you!

[Viper]

If you don't want to deal with getting a new monitor then I can set up a Core i7 based system instead.

[masonite]

hmmm... a core i7 with the same clock is about 70 USD more.. is it worth the performance gain? It'll require a new mobo, right? and that'll run the cost up even more... maybe ill just stick with the core 2 quad. Are there higher factory clocked ones than the 2.66 GHz?

Garf, why the dual HDD setup? just in case of failure? Thanks for the info about the graphics cards, really the area i'd probably like to improve (if any) would be that area, ill keep that in mind when buying. It looks like that Mobo is capable of crossfire, along with that card - is the performance gain worth it? or it is better to just go for a higher spec single card?



Bluetooth keyboard curry? i used the controller to type that up :/ i think im going to get that playstation palmitis crap they've just discovered ;)

[curryking1]

But you said you were at work in the second post... you play PS3 at work!? :O

Shame on you!!!

*lucfy...

[Garfunkel]

Garf, why the dual HDD setup? just in case of failure? Thanks for the info about the graphics cards, really the area i'd probably like to improve (if any) would be that area, ill keep that in mind when buying. It looks like that Mobo is capable of crossfire, along with that card - is the performance gain worth it? or it is better to just go for a higher spec single card?

Yes, With 2x500GB drives you have numerous backup options and raid configurations. Losing 1TB of data in one blow would be much more painful than the extra expense of the 2x500GB drives. But that is just me.

[masonite]

lol no curry, i used my ps3 at home to write the first one, then went to work before 9am and used the pc there to write the second one :)


Thanks garf, sounds like a good idea, but ive got a 500gb external drive anyway - i can just use that as backup i guess. Although, if i were to get two 500gb drives, does it matter much what type? like, would just a couple of seagate 7200rpm 500gb jobbies do the trick?

[Smokey]

But you said you were at work in the second post... you play PS3 at work!? :O

Shame on you!!!

*lucfy...

we have ps2 at work lol

[masonite]

OK, well it looks like tigerdirect is out. Turns out they don't do international orders over the net, and amazon (who appear to use tigerdirect for pc components) won't even let me get a quote for shipping to australia.

I've been looking at australian internet retailers, the most comprehensive ive seen is skycomp.com.au, but the price will increase by a couple of hundred over what Viper quoted for tigerdirect. still, it will mean not paying as much shipping/duty/taxes, so probably works out equal.

Theres also another place in parramatta near where i live who are quoting a:
C2Q Q9400 for $367 -
(or a C2Q Q9550 2.83GHz for $445)

Gigabyte EP45T-UD3P - $256.40
http://www.arc.com.au/?MB775GAEP45TUDP

Couldn't find a pc cooling PSU, found this one instead:
ThermalTake 750W Tough Power Active PFC and Cable Management - $229
(not sure what they're like though) http://www.arc.com.au/?PSUTH750TP

Grahpics card is a bit of a rort - same sapphire one is $445
http://www.arc.com.au/?VIDSAPXHD4870

Corsair 4GB Kit TWIN2X4096-8500C5D - $193
http://www.arc.com.au/?MEMD285CO4GKD

Western Digital SATA2 1TB HD - $165 (not sure if its the caviar one)
http://www.arc.com.au/?HDWD1000AAKS

Antec Three Hundred 300 Tower - $108 (couldn't find the jupiter one, i don't really mind how it loks that much though as itll be stuck under my desk anyway)http://www.arc.com.au/?CSAN300GC


Comes to $1603 (plus another couple of hundred i reckon for DVDburner, wireless card etc).

So $1800....damn. Any ausslies had any experiences with these places (or any others)? wouldn't mind going down and buying a few bits and pieces, but some seem over the top... the case is the main thing i'd like to get locally, but if i can't get the price down on the rest of the stuff i might as well buy one ready made i guess. The GPU in particular seems over the top....but i don't want to downgrade below what ive got simply because their prices are ott.


Obviously theres no shipping, taxes, etc that i have to worry about the way i would with tigerdirect, but it still seems like a big difference.

[Garfunkel]

Don't go with thermaltake PSUs.

As for prices:

http://www.staticice.com.au/

Type in the product and it will search all Australian computer stores for prices. I usually get all my stuff from megaware, MSY (who are famous for shitty websites and great prices), umart, or maco technology.

I believe there are a few shops around Parramatta way.

[masonite]

Thanks for the advice garf, and thanks for the sites - i'll check them out before i get anything. I think you've mentioned staticice before, but i completely forgot about it.

[EDIT]: lol,. you weren't joking about msy's website ;)

[Garfunkel]

Yes, haha, MSY's website is...bad. But they have shops in NSW and QLD (one near centre point) and usually have the cheapest prices out of most retailers.

[masonite]

megaware and maco make things pretty easy to gauge thanks to their build-a-pc type feature and between them they seem to have everything i need. i m getting decent discounts for lots of items on megawares too, which is nice. im curious though, is there much advantage to going up in clockspeed for the core2quad? like, upto 2.83 or3ghz? i might check out msy’s auburn store tomorrow too and have a look around...

[Garfunkel]

depends what the price difference is.

There is also secretnet, who are a bit expensive, but the guy who runs that shop is a great guy.

Unfortunately, he closed down late last year, but they are trying to clear stock.

[masonite]

yeh, just saw that they closed down, seemed like a decent place too.

megaware are offering the Q9550 2.83 GHz for $433, mako are asking $475 for the same (or $385 for the Q9400 2.66GHz).

[masonite]

Also, is the only difference between this card

Sapphire HD4870 512M GDDR5 512M 256-BIT GDDR5 PCIE2.0 2*DVI TVO HDMI Dual Slot
http://www.megaware.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=254_255&products_id=80815

and this card

Sapphire HD4870 1G GDDR5 PCIE 2*D TVO HDMI
http://www.megaware.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=254_255&products_id=80815

the amount of ram? or am i missing something, like ram speeds or something - seems like a minimal price increase for twice as much ram...

[Garfunkel]

As for the CPU, I would go for the cheaper one, you have to draw the line somewhere. The difference would not be noticeable unless you timed it. Both are ideal.

As for the GPU, as far as I can tell from the descriptions, yes, the only difference is the memory capacity. I would go for the 1GB because it is a pretty decent price for such a card.
The only thing I would do is email them to make sure that the 1GB card is a dual slot solution like the 512MB version, this will ensure you get a decent cooler.

BTW: your link to the 1GB model was wrong: http://www.megaware.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=254_255&products_id=83061

[masonite]

Ahk cheers, ill stick to the 2.66 then, and the 1GB card.

I checked out MSY's store - bloody hell! a tiny shopfront in the back of a run down complex.....with about 30 people queueing up to be served. might go back when its a bit quieter, and when I know exactly what i want (with a list in front of me). Seems they definately have a good reputation... (unless they were complaints ;))

[Garfunkel]

Woops, yes, I should have warned you about the lines. lol. Yes, when going to MSY always make sure you know EXACTLY what you want.

With their prices, they must make near nothing, but they get so many customers it probably adds up.

As for their reputation, they are more or less average I guess. Some people on the Australian Broadband Forums have said that they have done some shifty things like selling returned goods as new, but really, what dingy little computer shop hasn't? Out of a few thousand customers something has to give.

[masonite]

Lol, you mean they're always like that?! ithough it was just a big day or something :)


Anyway, i think ive sorted it out.

I've got:


Antec 300 gaming tower - $108
http://www.arc.com.au/?PSUCO750TX

WD 1TB Caviar w/32MB cache - $224
http://www.arc.com.au/?PSUANQT750

C2Q 2.66GHz Q9400 - $367
http://www.arc.com.au/?PSUANQT750


Corsair TWIN2X4096-8500C5 4GB (2x XMS2 2GB) PC-8500 (1066MHz) DDR2 RAM, 2x240-pin DIMMs, Non ECC, Unbuffered, 5-5-5-15 - $119
http://www.megaware.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=239_240&products_id=84283


Sapphire HD4870 1G GDDR5 PCIE - $394
http://www.megaware.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=254_255&products_id=83061

Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P - $238
http://www.megaware.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=220_223&products_id=84473

750W "SilverStone" ST75ZF Power Supply, Black SLI ready - $179
http://www.excelcomputers.com.au/pdetail.asp?pid=4232

Total comes to $1629

I think theres a wireless card at home somewhere, and i'll get a DVD drive somewhere sometime (they're everywhere, and fairly cheap so im not too fussed about that. If i get desperate i can take one out of an old pc anyway).

I'm getting the stuff from three different places at this stage, but im not too fussed - as long as i get it all im happy.




[EDIT]: Woah, thats awesome - I just realised megawares' shopfront is about a 2 minute drive from where i work, i can just do a cash pick up during my lunchbreak during the week - makes things bloody easy :)

[Smokey]

i use this mob im brisbane only cause they are round the corner basically

http://www.computeralliance.com.au/main.aspx

[masonite]

Is a 750W PSU really essential? it seems theres more 600-650W ones avaliable, and from what i can tell others around the place are using them with similar setups...is there an easy way of calculating?

Specifically, im lookng at the Corsair HX-620 (http://www.megaware.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=73113)

or the Corsair TX-650 (http://www.megaware.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=73119)

[Garfunkel]

Both those PSUs will be fine. Personally, I'm not a fan of modular PSUs so I would go with the 650.

[masonite]

Great, thanks for that, ill go with the 650W. I decided to go with a smaller Caviar black HDD (640GiB) as i don't really need that massive storage (im sure by the time i do i can upgrade) and some of the extra money saved will go towards the processor (decided to go for the Q9550 after all :))

[masonite]

Well, my computer has not been bought, built, and booted :)

Everything seems to work fine, HDD and ODD are detected, along with ram, installed windows xp (but it needs an activation code and i cant find it - hasn't asked for a product key though ?!).

Theres just one thing that is bugging me - when i installed the CPU heatsink (stock intel one) the motherboard bulges beneath the CPU a little bit - is this normal? or more importantly, will it wreck the motherboard? its onlt a few mm, but i can notice it if i look at the motherboard horizontally. I had to push the pins pretty hard to get them in, and im worried i'll come home to find a cracked motherboard... Also, the idle CPU temp (According to BIOS) is in the low 50 degrees C area - again, is this a normal temp?

OVerall, pretty happpy with how it went, i thought it'd take me a lot longer to build.

[curryking1]

Where's my bluetooth keyboard?!

[masonite]

that sentence was supposed to be "Well, my computer has now been bought, built, and booted"... didn't really make sense the way it was...

i haven't bought it yet curry, hopefully will soon. at the moment an 8 year old PS/2 one will have to do ;)

[Viper]

Your two concerns are normal. The stock heat sink doesn't have a back plate to mount it with so the motherboard takes a beating but few ever actually crack once mounted. The temps are about right for the stock heat sink as well.

Buying a decent aftermarket heat sink will alleviate both concerns even further.

[masonite]

Cheers Viper, thats a relief - i was worried i was hurting the mobo. I also found that one of the push pins was loose on the heatsink - its fixed now, and according to CPUID all cores are running a few degrees cooler - 49-50 degrees C now.

Thanks for all the help guys, great to have a forum where people not only have the expertise to help others, but also don't mind doing so :) I'll try and get some pics up of my setup too :)

[curryking1]

So what are all the final specs and what OS are you using? Just curious... lol.

[Garfunkel]

As long as you applied thermal paste in the right way and the HSF is placed on firmly, no problems there. Intel HSFs have always been trash so they do put a lot of stress on the motherboard.

[curryking1]

I think I took it off the thermal paste on my CPU by accident lol.

I was like 'What's this white ***t on my CPU!?' and I scrubbed it off and then I realized later it was probably important and not really dirty like I first thought it was.

I'm pretty sure I applied spare thermal paste that came with the CPU fan I was putting in... hmmmmmmm...... lol.

[masonite]

I used the thermal paste that was already on the heatsink, but i was like "holy shit its bending the mobo!" so i took it off and put it back on again - the paste might have spread out a bit and it might not be on properly... i bought some xigmatek grease and was thinking about using that, but i might get some arctic silver as well and use that instead to reseat the heatsink - if it makes much difference between pastes. I haven't tried playing any games yet, although i did scan a few files for viruses and that saw temps hit 62 degrees C - not sure if thats excessively high or not. Running realplayer w/ visualiser, a bunch of tabs in firefox, a few windows explorer windows and cpuid at once saw my temps do... nothing. stay completely where they are. Happy about that, but ill install Halflife 2 and see how it goes - im paranoid about temps going too high...



Final specs are:

Intel Q9550 C2Q 2.83 GHz

Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 4870

500GB seagate 7200 rpm HDD (didn't really care too much about the type of HDD, and that one was less than half the price of the caviar black 640gb)

Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P mobo

Corsair 800 MHz ram 2x2GB (the guy at megaware thought 1066 might be a bit too hot with my setup, and i didn't want to shell out the extra 80 odd dollars to get the ram with air cooling)

shitty $36 Asus dvd burner (although its 22x, so not all bad :))

750w PSU (can't remember what brand off the top of my head, it was a black box and called the "no rules" series or something stupid like that.... anyway its modular and seems like decent quality)

Asus ATX Mid Tower (again, can't remember what model off the top of my head, but its got 3 cooling fans, a large mesh screen on the side and space for another fan).

total cost was about 1650 all up, a price im pretty happy with. Still yet to get a nice KB and mouse, is the much of a delay with the wireless bluetooth ones? i'd like wireless but if it makes things annoying i'll stick with wired.

Should also say that megaware were awesome - i guess anyone would be pretty nice when a guy walks in off the street prepared to drop 1600 cash on a system, but considering its supposed to be a pickup office, not a shopfront, they helped me with everything, went through my specs and gave great advice and suggestions (although they definately seem to like acer products...)

[curryking1]

Wow, build a worse rig plox, kthxbye.

Lol j/k. That looks like a wicked setup. Lol @ possibly getting RAM with a fan hahaha.

1600 AUD sounds like a good price, probably like 1000 USD or something I guess? Looks hawt from here.

Edit - I would guess a bluetooth keyboard would be just as responsive as the PS3 controller. Both bluetooth? :shrug:

[masonite]

lol thanks curry. Yeh, i think i got a pertty good performance/economy balance - above here it becomes a lot more expense for a little more performance. Now i can substitute letters f0r num8erz w3n I t41k, and b3 t3h 1337 r0x0rz....l0lzorz.... ;)

yeh the thing is with wireless, i'd like to be able to play RTS games from my bed - but i doubt wires would be long enough (unless i got usb extenders....do they exist?!?)

[curryking1]

(unless i got usb extenders....do they exist?!?)

Yep. They just make your long wires even longer ;-]

I have like a 6 ft long one. I have no idea why I bought one so long lol. I probably only needed 2 or 3 feet to allow the flexibility I wanted lol.