American Muscle vs. Japanese Rice Burner

[Omega]

ok coolguys, which is it for you? american muscle owns japan's shit

[speed stick]

Americas because we are more serious. Not so tiny also.

[Relient J]

Throw in European autos and we'll have a poll. Between the two though I'm going with American muscle. In the end what the wise man said is true: "There's no substitute for big displacement."

[speed stick]

Yeah, I forgot about them. They have an awesome bunch.

[Viper]

American Muscle.

Let a rice burner even attempt to run against these.

1000 Hp Monte Carlo (http://www.fasttrackperformance.com/page5/chow%20movie%20files/christtgn.wmv)

Low resolution Vette (http://www.weckmanperformance.com/ride_inside_1mb.wmv)

High Resolution Vette (http://www.weckmanperformance.com/ride_inside_10mb.wmv)

[[[tavis]]]

I want a porsche cayanne or a gt3

[Relient J]

^ I'd rather have the VW Touareg.

[Glenn2K4]

i hate american muscle cars. they are so boring. blahhhh



*runs for dear life*

[Omega]

i hate american muscle cars. they are so boring. blahhhh



*runs for dear life*

::runs glenn over with a '69 torino talladega::

[goku2057]

Both are great in different aspects of racing. 4 Bangers are easy to mod, and can equal the power of American muscle relatively easily, but on the other hand, if you can save up enough money for a nice supercharger for your , say for instance 69' Chevelle, not too many things will touch you.

[Haris]

^ I'd rather have the VW Touareg.
Word. Touareg's are the shit.

[GrimPimper]

Nah. I'll take Jap cars any day of the week. Give me a skyline, and I'll make magic happen.

[Relient J]

Personally, I think nothing can touch European cars for refinement, precise engineering, and performance. Is it any wonder that Lexus admits to copying Mercedes model for model? Give me an Audi S4 any day. Or a VW Golf R32.

[The Dude]

I like all cars but American Muscle is waaay overrated. Who cares if your car is fast in a stright line. Anyone can stomp on the gas, a real car eats hairpin turns alive. Its so pathetic that American car manurfactures need 8 cylinders to get 300HP, while a Subaru STI gets 300 with only 4 clyinders and awd. I have "souped up" my own import before. I had a full exhaust , underdrive pullies, and even a nitrous set up. I'm getting a new car in the next few weeks and I'm starting with 210HP, my goal is 300HP and I will achives this very cheaply. Dont get me wrong, I hate the Honda BOYZ with wings and stickers, but dont bash all imports because many of them will set you in your place.



Viper a large displacment is great for drag racing, but that 1000HP monte carlo is going to choke in the corners, And yes I really did have a nitrous set up on my eclipse

[goku2057]

But it got stolen!

Anywho. I agree with you dude.

[goku2057]

American Muscle.

Let a rice burner even attempt to run against these.

1000 Hp Monte Carlo (http://www.fasttrackperformance.com/page5/chow%20movie%20files/christtgn.wmv)

Low resolution Vette (http://www.weckmanperformance.com/ride_inside_1mb.wmv)

High Resolution Vette (http://www.weckmanperformance.com/ride_inside_10mb.wmv)

I garundtee you that there are Jap cars that would MURDER that.

Also, as Dude stated, straight lines are one thing, but what happens on curvy roads? I'll tell you what, you get handled by an STi. PWNED!

[The Dude]

Yeah it might be gone, but it was amazing whne I had it. It's ok my new project is going to destory my old one. I already have planned my mods and what size turbo I'm going with. With nitrous I would sping the wheels so bad becuse front wheel drive sucked for traction. I wont have to worry with my awd car

[[[tavis]]]

^ I'd rather have the VW Touareg.


uglier, and a sissy version, the HP in that VW is nuthing :shrink:

[Greg]

I love american muscle cars

[Blaksmoke]

The Japanese laugh at our low-quality vehicles and our poorly-made, inferior electronics!

[Michael Bluth]

Jap cars are teh sux0r.

[Silent Warrior]

american muscle 0wnz any jap pos.

[ScratchedAt]

Gimmee an 86 Ford Taurus anyday...

er...

[The Dude]

Gimmee an 86 Ford Taurus anyday...

er...

SHO Taraus maybe..

[Viper]

Its so pathetic that American car manurfactures need 8 cylinders to get 300HP, while a Subaru STI gets 300 with only 4 clyinders and awd. Dude, I consider 300hp pathetic. Unless you're pushing over 500hp, not worth my time.






I garundtee you that there are Jap cars that would MURDER that.

Also, as Dude stated, straight lines are one thing, but what happens on curvy roads? I'll tell you what, you get handled by an STi. PWNED!
That Vette is the worlds fastest street legal vehicle. That clip shows it running the quarter in 8.1 at over 170 mph and then he drove it home.


As for curves, a 2005 stock vette will take those curves with the Jap cars AND out accelerate them.


Try this one.

http://www.callawaycars.com/Corvette/Sledgehammer/sledgehammer_article.htm


Will take those turns and then rip up to the world record over 254 mph.



Ever notice how no Jap cars have the major world records?

[JackieChanIsGOD]

I hate new american muscle cars... they're just annoying...
I love the oldies though, pretty much because of my Dad and Uncles... I got to drive my Uncles 69 Chevelle... he dropped in a 405 instead of the stock 396... it has 450 hp... man, it moooooves... when those guys were kids, they'd race all the time... we have some nice hills here, and my dad said off of one hill they got probably about 15 ft of air... lol... crazy kids those days...

[The Dude]

Dude, I consider 300hp pathetic. Unless you're pushing over 500hp, not worth my time.







That Vette is the worlds fastest street legal vehicle. That clip shows it running the quarter in 8.1 at over 170 mph and then he drove it home.


As for curves, a 2005 stock vette will take those curves with the Jap cars AND out accelerate them.


Try this one.

http://www.callawaycars.com/Corvette/Sledgehammer/sledgehammer_article.htm


Will take those turns and then rip up to the world record over 254 mph.



Ever notice how no Jap cars have the major world records?


yeah becuse they are small displacment. Everyone knows if you do forced induction on a large displacment engine ( most american v8's) you going to make an insane amount of power. The trouble is it cost mountins of $$$$$. Japense cars are defiently best bang for buck. They make sports cars everyone can afford. Remember I'm just some dude living at home in my parents garage. 300Whp is huge, especially in a light weight car. I am an all around car guy. Dont get me wrong I would love a Z06 or a Ford GT. I just prefer imports


The crazy thing is I plan to get 300whp with under $10,000 including price of the car. The car will also be dependable and be my daily driver. Lets see your american muscle do that.

[Viper]

That isn't hard at all. The problem is you have to know how to get the right parts. There isn't pro-shops dedicated to ramping up V-8's like there is for Jap cars.

[The Dude]

That isn't hard at all. The problem is you have to know how to get the right parts. There isn't pro-shops dedicated to ramping up V-8's like there is for Jap cars.

I already know exatcly what parts I'm ordering from were. I dont need a pro shop. All my tuning will be done on a Palm Pilot with with tuning program. 300 whp is going to be a cake walk. Compred to my last car...


http://www.dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/1gturbo/


I'll update you guys as the project comes along. But its going to take awhile becuse I just sold my old car and have to get my "new" one still


And please name a American musclle car you can get 300whp under $10,00 including the cars price

[JackieChanIsGOD]

And please name a American musclle car you can get 300whp under $10,00 including the cars price

http://www.airboattrader.com/AirboatsForSale.htm

:P

[Relient J]

]']uglier, and a sissy version, the HP in that VW is nuthing :shrink:

Ugly is all in the eye of the beholder. Personally I find the VW beautiful and the Porsche nauseating. Give me the Touareg TDI V-10 any day. Although that assumes I have any interest in SUV's. :)

[Rabunis]

I like imports because I find them to be more stylish and I like how easy they are to mod and customize. Also they are good for a person like me because instead of throwing down a fat wad of cash all at once for a car, you can get a cheap car and slowly add relatively inexpensive things over the life of the vehicle. It's a work in progress untill you put the for sale sign on it.

[Silent Warrior]

theres nothing like the smell of a muscle car's exhaust.... good smell..

[Blaksmoke]

Like the exhaust from the bus...

[goku2057]

Sweet. But I gotta story for you.

I met my hero in Orlando, Fl last week, when he pulled into my hotel in a 2004 Sti. I could tell by the sound, and by the look that this was no ordinary STi. There were decals all over it for custom car places, and it turned me on. I went up and talked to the dude, and he proceeded to list of these specs:

~755 HP
0-60= 2.5 Seconds
0-100= 3.4
quarter mile= under 10 sec
Skidpad= .90


This thing was a freaking haus. It would have torn that corvette a new one, and the corvette would have loved it.

[Serene Samus]

^wow.

I think I prefer American Muscle cars.

[Viper]

Sweet. But I gotta story for you.

I met my hero in Orlando, Fl last week, when he pulled into my hotel in a 2004 Sti. I could tell by the sound, and by the look that this was no ordinary STi. There were decals all over it for custom car places, and it turned me on. I went up and talked to the dude, and he proceeded to list of these specs:

~755 HP
0-60= 2.5 Seconds
0-100= 3.4
quarter mile= under 10 sec
Skidpad= .90


This thing was a freaking haus. It would have torn that corvette a new one, and the corvette would have loved it.Nice specs....I'll give it that but it would cost $80,000 to do it too. With that, you can build another Sledgehammer and it would toast that, just like the 1988 original does.

[The Dude]

Nice specs....I'll give it that but it would cost $80,000 to do it too. With that, you can build another Sledgehammer and it would toast that, just like the 1988 original does.


$80,000 MY ASS!!!

All he needs is to upgrade the tubo thats only $2000 at the most, full exhaust tahts another $800 and build the internals for another $800. New clutch and an way to manage the extra fuel. Then dyno tune the hell out of it.


I hate the American mind set on cars- "Horse Power is everything" I rather have my 140HP Panda Trueno and be a drift king, then go fast in a stright line

[Rabunis]

^ :D

[Mach]

There simply is no Japanese car that can go toe to toe with the Dodge Viper GTS and win. Period.
Now the way the Japanese car owners play is through modification...(something I dont go for)...But yet the Viper still owns all Japanese cars in that area too. Why? The Hennessy VENOM Viper 650 and the KINGSNAKE Viper 830 said so.

[The Dude]

There simply is no Japanese car that can go toe to toe with the Dodge Viper GTS and win. Period.
Now the way the Japanese car owners play is through modification...(something I dont go for)...But yet the Viper still owns all Japanese cars in that area too. Why? The Hennessy VENOM Viper 650 and the KINGSNAKE Viper 830 said so.


So we are comparing a turbo 4 cylinder to a viper. Gee wiz, I wonder why you think American cars are better. Thats like taking your crappy viper and comparing it to A Pagani Zonda. or a Ferrari Enzo.

[Mach]

Well like Viper said that STi that guy had would've cost around 80,000 to get that much performance out of it...The Viper can be purchased for 70,000 out of the lot without the extra work needed and still best it.

[Rabunis]

We are all aware american cars tend to be faster than the rice rockets. But speed isn't the only determining factor in whether or not I want to purchase a car. I like that fact that you can have a relatively fast car with some bolt ons, while keeping it fuel effecient. Also the gas guzzling, massive engine, american super cars are a lot heavier. I like a car that you can navigate corners with ease and precision and can stop quickly.

[The Dude]

Well like Viper said that STi that guy had would've cost around 80,000 to get that much performance out of it...The Viper can be purchased for 70,000 out of the lot without the extra work needed and still best it.



What does Viper know about fixing up a car? How did you get $80,000? Stop spreading wrong information on a subject you dont know about. I expected better from you ( viper, mach). For $80,000 you would have all out WRC style STI. You cant compare a $70,000 car with a $35,000 one.

[Viper]

I know more about it than you might think. If it were only 35k for 755 hp, they'd be everywhere and they are not.

[The Dude]

I know more about it than you might think. If it were only 35k for 755 hp, they'd be everywhere and they are not.


You said it would take $80,000 to get that STI to run what Goku said, I'm just questioning were you get that information. Just becauce it is not a large displacment engine does not mean it takes $80,000 to make 700HP. STI costs around 35,000 and you get over 300HP. This is a turbo car, it is much cheaper to make power, then mechanical tuning on an n/a engine

[Gopherchux]

i hate to say it, but there's not much american muscle left. If you want muscle, go to europe.

[Relient J]

Well like Viper said that STi that guy had would've cost around 80,000 to get that much performance out of it...The Viper can be purchased for 70,000 out of the lot without the extra work needed and still best it.

It all just depends on what you're looking for in a car. The STi will seat five and carry more than a duffle bag. That makes it a better car in my book.

[goku2057]

Nice specs....I'll give it that but it would cost $80,000 to do it too. With that, you can build another Sledgehammer and it would toast that, just like the 1988 original does.


Halla. Not even close man. He told me that with all the work that was done on it, it prolly only totaled out at 65k, WITH THE CAR. So he dropped 30k into it roughly. Anywho, he didn't spend the money, he picked the parts, and his sponsers payed for them. It's a pretty sweet deal.

As for Mach-to-the-rider, I agree with Relient. YOu get a 5-seater, over the Viper's 2, 27MPG, over the Viper's 12, and a trunk to fit stuff in, over the Viper's well, Nothing.

[Viper]

OK...65k. A Vette is 50K and add $15k worth of mods to it and you get what I'm saying. That sledgehamer was a stock 1988 vette with a twin turbo on it now take a stock 500hp Vette today and a twin turbo to it or 15K worth of mods and it's going to school the STi. As for curves, Vettes and Viper have the best slalom record of any stock vehicle.

[Rabunis]

Fuck this shit. I just want a ricey rear wheel drive import. Then I can drift into the future.

[The Dude]

That sledgehamer was a stock 1988 vette with a twin turbo on it now take a stock 500hp Vette today and a twin turbo to it or 15K worth of mods and it's going to school the STi. As for curves, Vettes and Viper have the best slalom record of any stock vehicle.


Umm if your Twin turbo a Vette its no longer stock. Of course it will school the STI. I'm sorry but tthe Vette and Viper are horrible cars in the turns. Yeah they are better then most but compare other cars in the same class as the Viper and Vette. A Viper costs $81,890 and you get 500 HP out of it with 505 cu of displacment. Do you see something wrong here? An STI makes 300 Hp at a cost of $32,000 and it is only a 2.5 liter. American car are extreamly inefficient.


The only American super car worth owning is the new Ford GT. Not only is it fast in a stright line but it handles better then a Lambo Gallardo.

[Viper]

I was pointing out how close to stock it still was. That STI is 300 stock, the Vette is 500 stock and not is 5.7 liter so yes, you are getting more hp per liter, that is normal in engines to be more efficient the smaller they are. I've seen 1.3 liters with 150 hp, same difference. As for turns....they both have records for slalom, how are they bad in turns?

The Dodge ME-412 will soon eat anything on the planet. 12 cyclinder with a quad turbo on it. 990hp and won't cost more than the Ford GT.

[The Dude]

IF you Twin Turbo a Vette it is FAR from stock. It is a huge job and requires a whole new ECU to manage the boost and massive amounts of fuel it would need. . Not to mention how you would fit in the intercoolers and all the piping. That is no were near stock. As for the Dodge ME-412 it is only a concept there is little known about it so I wont even try.

I like the Vette and Viper, just they are too expensive for the average guy to afford. And if you are going to lay down the cash for one of them I can think of much better cars to buy.

[Relient J]

Doesn't the ME-412 wear the Chrysler badge, not Dodge? The only Dodge I have any interest in right now is the Magnum. Whoever thought of putting a Hemi in a station wagon was a genius. But don't be saying the 300C and Magnum represent American muscle! That's a Mercedes E-class chassis they're riding on.

[Viper]

It uses both, just like the Neon and the Prowler uses Dodge and Plymouth (did). Chrystler is a fancy Dodge. Vehicles are the same just midly changed body designs, luxury features and new name. 300M = Intrepid. Town and Country = Caravan.

[The Dude]

Ahhh the good old Caravan. I rolled in one of those for a long time.

[Relient J]

It uses both, just like the Neon and the Prowler uses Dodge and Plymouth (did). Chrystler is a fancy Dodge. Vehicles are the same just midly changed body designs, luxury features and new name. 300M = Intrepid. Town and Country = Caravan.

Yeah, yeah. I'm aware of how DaimlerChrysler is organized, and with the concept of platform sharing. However, this is the first I've heard of the ME-412 having anything but the badge it wore at its concept unveiling. Namely, Chrysler. It doesn't make since to make this car a Dodge since they already have a world class supercar in the Viper.

Plus, there was never a Dodge Prowler. It was the Plymouth Prowler until DC gave Plymouth the axe. Then it became the Chrysler Prowler.

[Viper]

All the major 'extreme' undertakings are now done by Dodge. Viper, Tomahawk..ect. Chrystler is a luxury division and the ME-4-12 isn't a luxury car. Chrystler may have unveiled it but it will more than likely carry the Dodge brand. Brand recognition is crucial for a car like this.


It uses both, just like the Neon .....and the Prowler uses Dodge and Plymouth (did).

I wasn't saying the Prowler uses dodge, i should have been more clear on the wording, sorry.

[Relient J]

Viper, I've gotta disagree with you about the ME-412. If it ever makes it to production I'm pretty sure it's gonna wear the Chrysler wings. It's a car meant to compete with the likes of VW's Bentley GT Continental, or Bugatti Veyron. This is a car that would be far too expensive in production to wear the Dodge badge.

[Viper]

"But this is relatively new ground for Chrysler. Sure, they've experimented with the extreme - take the Tomahawk motorcycle, for example." - this is saying the Tomahawk carries the Chrysler brand though it's Dodge. Not sure what brand they will use because I do agree that the Me-412 will be an uper eschelon vehicle along the lines you mentioned.

One thing for sure. A quad turbo 850hp 12 cyclinder engine from them is going to be a monster in all aspects.

[The Dude]

Viper, download this, it might take awhile but is extreamly good http://www.sleepy-fish.com/sleepy/TopGear_GT.wmv


It will take along time to download but it is so cool. It's the Top Gear video to the Ford GT. Even if you have the slightest interest in American cars down load this

[Relient J]

The Tomahawk was never intended to go into production. It was built exclusively to showcase the new engine Chrysler had developed. This new Chrysler is very European in its design. The Chrysler badge carries more clout in Europe than does the Dodge brand. That's why Europe's getting a Chrysler badged Magnum.

[goku2057]

OK...65k. A Vette is 50K and add $15k worth of mods to it and you get what I'm saying. That sledgehamer was a stock 1988 vette with a twin turbo on it now take a stock 500hp Vette today and a twin turbo to it or 15K worth of mods and it's going to school the STi. As for curves, Vettes and Viper have the best slalom record of any stock vehicle.


Only ZO6's have 500HP. A stock vette has like 350 (I might be off a bit, as this is a 96' grand Sport) If you are talking ZO6, I believe that they are a tad more expensive than that...Lemme check.

[goku2057]

Okay. ZO6's fully loaded come out to about 55k after everything is said and done. So you have 10k to do as you please, and about all you can do is drop a TIGHT supercharger in there. That'll get you in the realm of...800HP give or take a little. You might have 2k-3k left, so do with it as you please, new exhaust, headers, whatever. you might get 900HP out of it after all is said and done--Although i'd save that for gas, cause you are going to need it.

Sure, on paper the Vette will Rape that 755HP STi. But, something that you might have overlooked is AWD. I know that the ZO6 has some PIMP traction control, as I have riden in one, but nothing is anywhere near as good as AWD. Nothing. Notta. Zilch. Zero. Take it from someone who know the limitations on both, AWD owns everything. And at 900HP, traction is going to be a bitch to get. On the otherhand, the STi won't have a problem getting traction, and in the quarter, and if you aren't in the lead coming out of the start, you will lose. Keep in mind that we aren't using slicks as well. I'm talking just engine mods, and everything else stock. I might be crazy, but i think the STi would handle that on the quarter, but anything after that, the Vette would reign, simply because it was built for top speed.

[The Dude]

AWD is great on the launch but RWD is faster once you get into the higher gears

[goku2057]

I know. I still think that STi would be faster in the quarter.

[Viper]

The base Vette is 415hp this year.

I'll admit that the AWD will give it a great jump but at the finish line, the souped Vette and souped STI will be neck and neck and would probably come down to the drivers.

[Relient J]

This has been a great thread. It's clearly full of guys who are passionate about cars, and who have very specific tastes. Keep it up!

[The Dude]

American Muscle is great but its past it's time. During the late 60's early 70's American cars were awesome. My parents grew up near Woodward Avenue. An area natorious for street racing during the 60's-70's. Every year we go see the Dream Cruise. I love the old Chargers, Mustang, GTO, Cobra, Chevells, Road Runners Vetts and Cameros. I love the rumble of a v-8, but I also love the sound of a turbo spooling up, the wastegate screaming and the PSHHHHHT!! of a blow off valve. Times have changed I just feel American cars had their time in the spot light, now its the Japenese cars that kids are going to be telling their kids about.

[Viper]

I just find a throaty V-8 and body more menacing than squeel from the Jap cars with 'fart cannon' exhausts.


Listen to this....combines a bit of both.

1000 Hp Monte Carlo (http://www.fasttrackperformance.com/page5/chow%20movie%20files/christtgn.wmv)

[Relient J]

I agree with a lot of what you said, Dude, but I'm still gonna stick to German cars. There simply is not better driving experience out there in my opinion. Once you drive a German car, you won't settle for anything else.

[Phaktor_Phive]

well i like japanese cars way better, most jap cars look fucking awesome, like the nissan skyline, that is a pimp car.

[goku2057]

The base Vette is 415hp this year.

I'll admit that the AWD will give it a great jump but at the finish line, the souped Vette and souped STI will be neck and neck and would probably come down to the drivers.


While I was taking a crap just now, and thinking on this subject, the Vette would need an entirely new Tranny. The STi had to have a new racing transmission installed in it, and I'll bet money that the Vette would as well.

Anyway, anything over a quarter mile, and that Vette would thrash the STi, you cant beat RWD, and that large amount of power.

As far as "Speed" is concerned, a wise man once told me this: "Speed can be instilled into any car, but it is how that car handles that make it a great car."

Just something to thikn on!

[Viper]

I just did some research of my own....a stock C5 Vette (375hp...not the new 500hp monster) beat the Skyline at Nurburgring with time of 7.57 beating a slitghtly modified r34.
The Nurburgring is 14 miles long and has over 170 turns and many elevation changes.

The Vette handles a whole lot better at turns than you think. It did better on the g test.

[goku2057]

Do you have a link to that site? i just wanna read that. Sounds interesting.


I know that the Vette handles well, and I'm not denying that, but nothing handles better than AWD.

[Viper]

Grr....now I have to look it up again. Give me a bit.

[goku2057]

Take your time...

[Rabunis]

Oooo polls are tied up with 8 votes each. It's split right down the middle! But because I'm so fucking ridiculously l337 my vote automatically nullifies all others so Japanese rice mobiles win hands down.

[Viper]

*Removes Rabunis vote*

[Rabunis]

*removes Vipers head*

A Florida woman's been arrested for allegedly biting the head off a friend's pet python.

Wheelchair-user Cynthia Christensen, of Spring Hill, was with a group of friends when the incident happened.

The 46-year-old asked her friend if she could hold the python, and then told the group she was going to bite it's head off.

When the snake's owner turned around moments later, she saw the reptile dangling from Christensen's hand with its head missing, reports the St. Petersburg Times.

[Viper]

omg.....link....please.

[goku2057]

you people are crrrrrazy.

[Relient J]

Aren't we talking about cars here? Anyway, I still think we should add "Euro Horsepower" to the poll.

[The Dude]

All I know is an Mitsubishi Evo and Subaru STI gets you close to 300HP for less then $32000. It's awd, handles like a dream. driveable in the snow, I can haul 4 friends and a bag of grocerys around, while still being in a true World Rally Championship insipred car. When American car manurfactures start to do that they might get my dollers back

[Relient J]

^ Don't forget the VW Golf R32 and the soon-to-be-in-the-U.S. Audi A3.

[Glenn2K4]

that Ford GT vid is pretty cool

[Jesus]

Jap Crap is Crap.

Go Australian Muscle!

[dncardman]

Ahhh damn this is a really hard decision. I absolutly love both and they both have strong points. Ugg...I guess Japs JUST edged it out for me.

[goku2057]

Dude, have you seen the WRX STi WR1? It is a LE car subaru is putting out to commemerate some rally racing guy winning something...Has 350HP, and better suspension, wheels, and slightly different interior.

Cost is around the price of a Vette, 50k.

[Relient J]

Instead of the WRX I'd rather have the new Saab 9-2 with the WRX engine. Oh, yeah.

[dncardman]

Why can't we just all get along and have both? lol

[Gilly]

cuz we don't got enough $ 4 both!

[Omega]

All I know is an Mitsubishi Evo and Subaru STI gets you close to 300HP for less then $32000. It's awd, handles like a dream. driveable in the snow, I can haul 4 friends and a bag of grocerys around, while still being in a true World Rally Championship insipred car. When American car manurfactures start to do that they might get my dollers back
300HP for < $32000? 300HP is weak

[goku2057]

But, you have to look at the benifits of that 300 HP. $ bangers are easy as hell to mod, and they can be modded cheaply. V-8's and bigger are very expensive to mod, and not to mention eat a shit load of gas. Say, you want a 2004 Mustacg GT. They come stock with about 240 HP, and cost about 26k. If you want to get 300 HP out of them, you are gonna have to do a shit ton to get there. Supercharging it (Depending on which one you use) will get about a 40% HP boost, blowers will get you like 65% or so. Say you drop a blower in there, and then replace the tranny, and some other neccessities, It'll run you major coin, I'm talking like around 10k-25k, depending if you want the cream of the crop.

These are all just figures out of my head, so don't quote me on them. I'm guessing with all that stuff you might get around 600 or so ponies (Pun Intended).

[The Dude]

300HP for < $32000? 300HP is weak


Weak for what? 300 HP is perfect if you want to go to a Road Race course. There is a thing as too much HP. No one cares if your car makes 600+ HP if it can only go in a stright line.

Racing in a stright line is boring as hell

[Crow]

*removes Vipers head*

A Florida woman's been arrested for allegedly biting the head off a friend's pet python.

Wheelchair-user Cynthia Christensen, of Spring Hill, was with a group of friends when the incident happened.

The 46-year-old asked her friend if she could hold the python, and then told the group she was going to bite it's head off.

When the snake's owner turned around moments later, she saw the reptile dangling from Christensen's hand with its head missing, reports the St. Petersburg Times.


Horror story for Viper

[Oddyssey]

But, you have to look at the benifits of that 300 HP. $ bangers are easy as hell to mod, and they can be modded cheaply.


STI are nice, but 300hp is all you will ever get out if it. The ej20 can handle any more than that its already bored out from a 2.0 liter engine into 2.5 and that engine cant handle much more than that, so if you put a bigger aftermarket turbo on it your going to watch your engine fly, after you done some much work. But since it is the racing model of the vehicle you will not be able to modify it with taking apart the engine and everything around it building it up that way.


Just get an older one from Japan they have one with duel turbos stock pushing 600hp in a 3.0L ej22 for 30 grand

[The Dude]

STI are nice, but 300hp is all you will ever get out if it. The ej20 can handle any more than that its already bored out from a 2.0 liter engine into 2.5 and that engine cant handle much more than that, so if you put a bigger aftermarket turbo on it your going to watch your engine fly, after you done some much work. But since it is the racing model of the vehicle you will not be able to modify it with taking apart the engine and everything around it building it up that way.


Just get an older one from Japan they have one with duel turbos stock pushing 600hp in a 3.0L ej22 for 30 grand


There is plenty he can do to an STI before adding a new turbo. He can get a bigger intercooler, full 3 inch exhaust, upgrade the fuel pump, interoole pipes and turn up the boost. The EJ25 has plenty it can improve on before adding internals

[Rabunis]

I hear wrx + racing chip = super mobile

[Xer0]

Hmmm, which to pick?

Well on one side with the American cars you have the freaking amazing Vette with a new 400 hp base engine and great fuel economy. BTW, the number of liters the engine has does not automatically denote how big it is, the 5.7 and soon to be 6.0 liter LS series engines in the Corvette are more comparable in size to a Nissan 3.5 VQ engine, probably a little bit bigger then it though and get great gas millage, which people seem to not know. A base Vette is rated at like 23/29, thats great fuel economy when you think about all of the power that you are getting with it, anyway, back to the topic, hehe.

Then you also have the Ford GT which will keep up with just about any and everything on the track. Also the new Ford Mustang, 300 hp and possibly, if rumors are correct, 20k stripper modle with the 300 hp V-8 engine, now would be a beast. Also, you guys forgot to factor in dealer incentives which american cars have. For 25 you can get a Mustang Mach 1, oh yeah.

Also you got the great Viper, nuf said about this.

Then there is the new Goat with an amazing interior, plenty of performance, great fuel economy, and a really great sleaper look.

Then on the Japanese sets. You have the S2000 which is one of the best handling and (IMO) best looking cars you can get for 33k. And lets not forget the NSX, although dated it maybe, its still a beast on the track. Or you can go with the affortable RSX's that Honda offers, but dammit, when will we get the RTR and the CTR from Honda, arghhh!

Then you got the soon to be introduced Skyline from Nissan, o yeah. And the all new 350z with great power at any time and looks to just drool over. Or you can opt for the G35 which has most of the Z performance but is nice and plush inside, for all you pampered enhusiasts.

Or the new Mazda RX-8, same with the S2000, great handling and looks to die for, all for around 30k. Or the new mazdaspeed miata, just wat the masses wanted, a miata with power.

Or you can join the Turbo crowd with the Evo 8 and the WRX/STI bunch, balls out performers, great price, although kinda bare bones on the interiors sadly.

But for me, all in all, i think i would choose Japanese just because i absolutly love the NSX, i don't know what it is about that car, but i just like it, even though a Vette would spank the shit out of it on the track, i am drawn to it. I guess im just wierd, hehe

[Ending Dream 23]

My vote is definitely for American cars.

And its not because I prefer V-8s (much), or because I hate the rice. Hell if you offered me a black ‘95 Skyline right now, well I’d kiss you. It’s because I couldn’t own a good Japanese car. I paid 400 bucks for the body and frame of the ’80 Malibu I drive now. The paint and body were good enough to leave alone but there was nothing else in the car save the back seat. I bought a stereo and carpet for about 600 bucks and grabbed a set of bucket seats out of a totaled Toyota (no one make fun of this, they are nice seats). I managed to buy and scrounge the parts for my engine for about 1100 bucks. My chevy small block makes close too 400 hp at higher revs but has nothing until about 4000rpm. It’s a little eccentric but I like it.

The thing is if you know what your doing you can build a 500 hp V-8 that won’t blow up every time you hold that gas down for more than an hour. I had a stock turbo 2.5 liter Caravan and I just couldn’t stop blowing the crap out of it. Something would explode once a week.

Basically I won’t drive anything that ever had airbags.
Sorry for rant.

[goku2057]

Maybe not buying Turbo'd minivans might help...Caravan is Dodge BTW, they are american...Unless you are talking about something else....

[Ending Dream 23]

I was just talking about small turbo charged engines in general. Which is really what this is about in my eyes. Small efficiant engines vs big V-8s. And since I've never owned a Japanese car a turbo charged dodge engine was the best practical example I could give.

[goku2057]

well most japanese cars are a helluva lot more reliable than american cars. So you really didn't have a japanese car experience. Get a WRX, and then talk to me.

[The Dude]

you can have it fast and unreliable
you can have it slow and reliable
But if its fast and reliable your not going fast enough :8)

[Rabunis]

^teh truth

[goku2057]

there is a difference in American 4 Bangers and Jap ones, japs last about 150k miles longer.

[Ending Dream 23]

Yeah but you also have to talk about how many miles you get per buck. I can spend a wad on a very well tuned reliable turbo'd up engine ( though I will agree if you really want a load of power nothing is 'reliable' ). Or just a bit of money on a very simple V-8, an old one with no computers or any of that modern crap attached too it. They'll make comparable power and if your Japanese engine is as good a you claim ( I'm not so sure ), it'll get in some more miles before it blows.

But you can't say that there are no reliable American engines. Personally I'd want something invented a few decades ago. Nothing complicated no computer tuning. Chevy made some real nice 305s back in the day, stock. My old man had a Chevy van that took 3 times over the odometer before it started too go down hill. And that’s pulling a fair sized load at least once a week. This thing just reeked of torque, pulling a two ton boat up a fair incline at speed in excess of 80mph. Now I know that’s no super car, but I feel its a good example of how American cars can be reliable.

Also, I build most everything I own myself. Mostly because it saves money. I'd hate to have to figure out how to get this computer to talk to that and this turbo to hook up right. Truthfully I'd have to do a lot of sitting down to put together a nice Japanese engine. I've seen my old man build and install a Chevy small block in a morning and have it down at the racetrack that night.

[The Dude]

But thoses old cars handle liks shit on a stick, how are you going to survive the twisties with all that weight? Raw power is not a substitutie for a well balanced car. Nothing beats the WHOOOOOOSH!!! PSHHHHHHTT!!! of a turbo monster. My talon sound like a fucking dentis drill while it spools up, I'll make a video someday and show it.

[goku2057]

isn't it great Dude?

[Ending Dream 23]

You can't say that all old cars weigh the tons or handle poorly. My '80 Malibu sets down at about 3200 lbs with no weight modification, the 1999 Nissan Skyline GT-R R34 ( as a random example ) weights 3672 lbs. The 350z ( you can tell I'm looking at a Nissan web site for comparison ) weighs almost the same as my car. And I'm telling you from experience, I haven't met an import that can stay on my ass on my local back roads.

[The Dude]

The GT-R is super heavy becuse of the drivetrain. My car weighs in at 3100 becuse of the awd but it handles like a mofo. If your in America local back roads are usually stright with very few curves. I prefer these (Should look familiar to Initial D fans this is Irohazaka and Usui Pass in real life)

http://gallery.tsukaeru.jp/iroha/iro002-14-55p-2.jpg

http://gallery.tsukaeru.jp/usui/u018-6-86p.jpg

[Ending Dream 23]

The dude, from what I've seen so far, you normally say smart things. But where do you get, " If your in America local back roads are usually straight with very few curves." from ???? The US has two mountain ranges, I happen to live in the older ones. In fact where I live even the highways are relatively curvy. Trust me man, if you wanted to play at Initial D, my local is quite good for it.

[The Dude]

The dude, from what I've seen so far, you normally say smart things. But where do you get, " If your in America local back roads are usually straight with very few curves." from ???? The US has two mountain ranges, I happen to live in the older ones. In fact where I live even the highways are relatively curvy. Trust me man, if you wanted to play at Initial D, my local is quite good for it.


You are only half right. When they constructed most of the roads in the 1950's America the concept is always to use as stright of a road as possible, look at the express ways for example. Many old people get a "hypnosis" when they drive on the express way and fall asleep. ( saw this on the Histroy channel btw) I completely forgot about the Calorado and Appilachian mountians. I'm used to the flat mid west. I wish we had roads like the ones in the pictures. The only place to find that around me is at the local road course.

[Viper]

Dude, I have some pretty damn nice curves on the expressway back in Florida.

I remember taking a 20 mph off ramp in a '71 Mustang with a 351 Clevend all tweaked up at 65 mph. Damn near made me shit my pants that this big ass car stuck to the road like glue around such a sharp corner.

[The Dude]

Back when I had my front wheel drive Eclipse, I took a turn at 95 mph while racing my friend. I ended up getting massive understeer and spun out when I counter steered. I stoped spining literally inches before a curb. I never have been so scared in my intire life. And that lesson taught me to take it to the track. I have my awd Dsm, it still understeers a bit but it will be much easier to fix then my fwd eclipse

[Rabunis]

omg I saw those pictures before I read the text and I was like "That looks a lot like Irohazaka" and then I read the post and semen was everywhere. Man that road would be so fucking fun to drive.

*wishes he lived in japan*

[goku2057]

Dude, I have some roads like that in Chattanooga, it's called the "W" Road, and the "S" Curves. I love driving on them.

[RB25DET]

American Muscle.

Let a rice burner even attempt to run against these.

1000 Hp Monte Carlo (http://www.fasttrackperformance.com/page5/chow%20movie%20files/christtgn.wmv)

Low resolution Vette (http://www.weckmanperformance.com/ride_inside_1mb.wmv)

High Resolution Vette (http://www.weckmanperformance.com/ride_inside_10mb.wmv)

yeah there are a Supras, Skylines and 300ZXs that run in the 1000HP club.

It's funny how when this American vs Japanese car debate comes up it's always a Viper vs a Civic.. where's the Viper vs a Tomita ZZ-2? Or Mustang vs SupraTT, or Camaro vs 300ZXTT?

It's like you guys think Civics are the ONLY Japanese cars made.That's plain wrong. In Japan, Hondas are seen as beginner's cars, the guys with big money to spend buy GT-Rs, Supras and NSXs etc. The middle guys usually get the Silvias/180SX, Evos, STi and the guys who can't afford those cars get Hondas. They're basically the lower rung of the Japanese Performance world. Those Japanese guys don't mess around when it comes to modification, they also don't believe in "junk yard" tuning. Most of the pro-shops and aftermarket parts manufacturer are involved in high-tier autoracing (Formula Nippon, All-Japan N-1 Endurance etc).

And the guy who posted about Hennessey Vipers? Uh yeah dude go ahead and give Hennessey your money, then goto the Viper Club and look up Hennessey and read all the crap about him being a crook.

[Oddyssey]

Ok well I look at this way I own a Chevy truck and a Porsches 911 I would tend to lean more towards the japs only because of fuel efficiency, if I were to modify either it would be Detroit steal not some aluminum block Japanese car I don’t know if you know this but Porsches has both beat since it is designed for the autobahn, and its block is coded with titanium so it can handle long periods of time driving hard. Personally I have gotten it up to 180 mph on a 20 mile closed loop not bad but could be better I was reading I could upgrade this for $40k to a RUF Porsche which would change the displacement from 3600 cc /219 cu in to a 4500 cc /243 cu in. changing it from 272hp stock to 511hp
Not bad since it is a lifetime grantee on it but I wont since I like keeping my money, and not adding shit to it, personally I like certain stock cars I just understand why kids think adding Nos or a cheery bomb will make them look cool.
As for the STI If I were to get a Japanese car I would get one, the handling is great!

[Rabunis]

As for the STI If I were to get a Japanese car I would get one, the handling is great!
http://www.norcalevo.net/gallery/albums/album06/EVOvScoobyLow.mpeg


MWAAHAHAHAHAHAHA