Josh Robinson interview....

[Kb-smoker]

This interview was taken from ps3week.com

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Josh Robinson's review of PS3 development cost him his job at Sony. We caught up with him to talk about life after his few minutes of gaming fame.



FULL STORY:

We had a chance to chat with Josh Robinson, the former Sony 3D artist who shook up the gaming media with a largely negative review of PS3 development.



Today's interview confirms that Robinson lost his job at Sony as a result of the article. He discusses his dismissal from Sony, his new job, the genesis of the PS3 article, and the reactions to the story from around the web.



Image

You made some pretty big waves, at least in the gaming press, with your article about PS3 development. Tell us how your life has changed since that article, and what you’re working on now.



Yea I can’t believe how out of control everything got. It’s absolutely absurd how the internet can take something relatively harmless and turn it into something so insane.



Let me first just say, all I really did was write a few paragraphs that gave my opinion on publicly released information. I never actually released any information. After reading my small article the reader is not any more informed about the PS3 than he was before the article. I didn’t reveal any tech info and I didn’t reveal different shipping plans. I’m still in awe at the whole uproar over what amounts to NO information.



My life has changed a lot since the article. I was let go at Sony after the article was plopped on the desk of Sony corporate. I was also asked to remove the article immediately. (Which I did without any resistance.) I had lots of job opportunities immediately after I became a "free agent" I am a little fortunate because I’ve made a small name for myself over the last year or so with some things I’ve written. I wrote a 25-page comparison between Maya and 3D Studio Max. That article actually got me a book deal. I was asked to write the entire Max 8.0 essentials book, which I have been working on the last year. It will be in production in the next couple weeks and available at all book stores nationwide. So I’m very fortunate to have all the opportunities I’ve had. I had four or five job offers the same week I was let go. Ultimately I’ll be making even more money, I’ll have a better title at the end of my name and I’ll be very near the beach. So it’s a bit hard to complain I suppose. I ended up settling down near the Santa Monica area. I’d rather not say where right now. I’m pretty excited about the project however.



When you wrote the article, did you expect your bosses at Sony to react in the way they did?




Absolutely not! I was pretty floored actually. Let me be very clear. I have a great relationship with Sony and their management. In fact I cannot say enough nice things about the CEO and the VP of the company. Both of those guys are great guys and way nicer to us lowly artists than they need to be. It would be really easy for guys in their positions to not remember your name or not say hi in passing. But they make it a point to know you and have a great relationship with everyone. The CEO even tossed a few of us the keys to his HUMMER a couple years ago to take for a spin. He is genuinely a nice guy and I like them both. I didn’t want to cause any problems at all by writing the article. I had at least two Sony employees read the article before it was even posted. Even a producer at the company read it. We were all in agreement that I was not breaking NDA with what I was saying. We all thought that I may rub a few people the wrong way, but nothing as severe as getting fired. I thought I was pretty fair about the comments I made. Most of the things I said were pretty standard industry facts that everyone is aware of. None of it is new information. (Regarding better games being released a year after a console is out or my comments on not being able to spend 40 million on every title because that is simply impossible). I really didn’t want to offend anyone or belittle their work. So I certainly apologize if I did.



I think that it was more that I was a Sony employee saying less than flattering things. I mean if I had posted similar opinions that were nothing but "sunshine" and "bunnies" I don’t think they would be as inclined to fire me on the spot. Then again I don’t know what they would have done if the situation were slightly different. So perhaps I am wrong.



Tell us a little about your work with the guys who run Downinfront.tv and what inspired you to write the PS3 review.



Well it all started a few years ago with an idea. I and a few close friends of mine had always wanted to start our own multimedia company. We wanted to be able to do a little bit of everything. It was always a dream project in the back of our heads. Ultimately it became pretty difficult to get everyone to be ambitious enough about the venture so it just fizzled out. What it ended up turning into, however, was a totally different idea. We are all movie buffs. We see every single movie that comes out every weekend. We always found ourselves giving reviews of the movies to each other and our friends after we saw them. That’s where the idea was born really. Why should we listen to some guy sitting in his basement writing reviews about games and entertainment when almost every one of us is already in the entertainment business in some capacity? Also there really aren’t too many places to go for a "No Holds Barred" opinion on movies or games, you know? Rather than someone beating around the bush I think its much more helpful and also entertaining if someone says, "I’d rather be set on fire than have to sit through 3 and a half hours of Alexander. I do not recommend this movie to anyone and my GOD have mercy on Colin Farrell’s soul."



Ultimately it was Jason Fleck who jump started everything. It seemed like overnight he created this entire site with banners, forums, reviews and so on. You can even buy posters and clothing from us. At that point the template was there. We just needed to create the content and then put butts in the seats. I was a writer for them from the beginning. We were all demoing games and systems and writing reviews on movies. We had just done a review on the Xbox 360 and Jason thought it would be a neat idea if we could have something up regarding the PS3. That’s where I came in! I wrote a few quick paragraphs and the rest is history. I never even really thought anyone would read it. We were literally just trying to fill space and balance out the reviews on our relatively new website that had been gaining momentum slowly. After it was done a couple of the guys that work with Down In Front (who also work at Sony) read it and gave it the thumbs up. We posted the article and it just sat there dormant for a few weeks before blowing up and circulating around the internet like a blog brush fire.



You mentioned earlier that when you wrote the PS3 review, you were already considering leaving Sony for another job. Was there any friction between you and the company? If so, did this affect the PS3 review at all?

There was never any friction at all between me and anyone at Sony. I was simply not being challenged. I had been at Sony for about 4 years and had just gotten to the point where no one there was teaching me anything. When I was shown something it was often a pretty old technique. Not a bad technique at all! Everyone at Sony is very talented. Just not necessarily as quick as how I would do it. Pretty much everyone there uses one 3D application. I’m pretty familiar with about three packages. So when I look at a task I look at it from a different point of view than someone who only knows one. They have to work within the techniques of that single package. Knowing other packages reveals different techniques and tools. That can only translate into faster workflow. You’ll never be a slower artist because you know more ways to do things. Sony is a great company! So great in fact that the average artist has been there between 6-9 years. The problem with that is what you end up with are people using techniques that are 6-8 years old. You get these kids out of college with little to no experience but they are doing things WAY different than the guys that have been in the business for many years. You would be surprised what you can learn from a kid with only a couple years under his belt! I personally thrive in an environment where we are all motivating each other to come up with new and better ways to do things. Where we can learn from each other and check the ego at the door. I even started a Sony User Group in order to facilitate this need I had. I wanted to see the talent in the company and learn from anyone I could. I also wanted to teach anyone that was willing to learn. I was able to learn quite a bit because of those user groups and I’ve also helped out a lot of people at Sony over time with small one-on-one sessions and showing personal techniques.



My opinion of Sony has always been a high one. It’s a great company with a lot of talented and dedicated people. Often times they are too dedicated and refuse to go home. My opinion of Sony didn’t have any effect on the review I wrote. If anything I felt a little bad because I didn’t want anyone to think I was bashing their personal work. That simply was not the point.



What precautions did you take to ensure that your story didn’t break your non-disclosure agreement with Sony?




Well whatever precautions I took didn’t seem to be enough eh? I’ve been doing this for 9 years and I’ve never once even come close to breaking NDA. In my own error, I assumed that it would be OK to give my opinion on what I believed to be public information. Sony has said very publicly that they are shipping in spring. All I said was, "hey I’d not want to miss the next E3 show." I didn’t leak any shipping information or reveal any other intentions. I also talked about some technology that has been released publicly for almost a year. You can go to Gamespot right now and view tech demos showing sub surface scattering, HDR, very high dynamic object counts and so on. It is all available. I didn’t reveal anything. Before the article was posted I passed it to a couple others that also work at Sony who write for Down In Front. No one seemed to worry that I was breaking NDA. The bigger concern seemed to be my awful grammar. After it had been posted one of the producers read it and was also OK with it. He thought I could push a button or two with a few comments but nothing even close to what ultimately happened.

Did I knowingly break NDA? I absolutely did not. I would never do that and I would never want to hurt Sony Online. Did I dance in the grey area by even opening my mouth? Yes I did and I was fired for it. So I guess the new rule for me is, don’t ever say anything at all about anything. Ever...ever.



How do you respond to critics around the web who say that, as a 3D artist, you’re not qualified to make a technical judgment about the PS3 development?




You know the internet/forums and blogs are a strange place. If I went online right now and said the sky was blue, 100 people would probably tell me to STFU noob or argue with me and tell me I’m not a weather man. In which case I should STFU anyway. So I don’t take much to heart when people want to argue with me about that. The bottom line: If I am looking at a next-generation system (the Xbox 360 for example) I expect to see next-gen technology. If I don’t see that next-gen technology then I’m inclined to be disappointed. I don’t need to know how to code for the Xbox to know that I’d rather have soft shadowing in a game.



Who made the decision to take the review off the DownInFront site? What were the reasons behind that decision?




I was asked by the powers that be to please take it down. Out of respect and also friendship I had it taken down within 30 minutes. Simple as that.



Do you or your editors have any plans to put the article back online?




No. It will never be posted again.



Do you still stand by the judgments you made in the PS3 review, or have your opinions changed?



I definitely stand by the comments I made. I am also very anxious to see how the final system compares. I will be in line with all the other nerds waiting for this thing when it ships.



Looking back at what’s happened over the past few weeks, would you do anything differently if you could?




Of course I would never have posted the article. The new job, new raise and new title would have come with or without the article. It was something unfortunate that happened and I sincerely hope Sony isn’t damaged by it.

http://www.ps3week.com/blogs/ps3week...&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

[Coded-Dude]

nice find, interesting read(though I am still reading the end)

Poor guy learned the hard way that you cannot be derogative towards that which you represent.....
(especially in the corporate world)
Of course corporations stab people in the back in much more disgruntling ways than what this guy did to Sony.

[Fats]

Yeah, he actually comes across as quite a sound bloke.

[Some Guest]

I bet he was hired by Microsoft.

[cpiasminc]

I know Microsoft has an office in the Santa Monica area, but I don't think it's a game studio. In any case, he broke NDA, so Microsoft would be far too averse to hiring anyone who did that.

[MasaC]

Originally Posted by Fats

Yeah, he actually comes across as quite a sound bloke.

You wouldn't say that if you've read what he wrote in that article which got him fired. He's doing alot of personal damage control in this interview imo.

[xbdestroya]

Well I defeinitely don't think he ever wrote anything worthy of losing his job over - though obviously he was taken to task on NDA breaking. He was just over his head with those articles of his and they came to bite him back in the ass. Still though, job loss isn't something I'd wish upon anyone.

(you know, unless it's Ken Lay style or something)

[Handycrap101]

Well since he has nothing left to lose, maybe he can just tell us everything he does know about the PS3.

[gablar16]

Originally Posted by Handycrap101

Well since he has nothing left to lose, maybe he can just tell us everything he does know about the PS3.

I 'm sure that he iis still under NDA. If he breaks it Sony will sue him for so much that his greatgreatgrand children will still be paying for it.

[Kb-smoker]

Originally Posted by Handycrap101

Well since he has nothing left to lose, maybe he can just tell us everything he does know about the PS3.

i think some devs said over at b3d that you could go to jail for breaking a NDA or at least get sued.

[cpiasminc]

I doubt he knows much of anything about the PS3. The NDA stuff was probably the stuff he said about the project he was working on, where he did get into some things about scheduling and revamps.

[xbdestroya]

I'm with Cpi - the whole point of the case against him in the firs place was that he didn't even work for Sony Computer Entertainment in the first place, but rather Sony Online Entertainment. On top of that, he was just a 3D Artist.

[cliffbo]

i don`t think he broke any nda`s but i think he was probably fired just because his statements made it sound like the ps3 was not as good as the xbox360 and was falling behind schedule which would have been potentially damaging to sony`s plans

[xbdestroya]

Well, that could be also - there are some that hold to that theory who I've talked to. Either way it was dumb of him to do, but I don't think him of malicious intent or anything, just one too many pro-fighting matches may have effected his judgement.

[section]

Here's the whole thing again:

I’ve spent some time the past year developing for the PS3. Actually it was a cinematic demo to be shown at e3 in 2005 at a closed door viewing. I was one of the few artists selected to work on it for the demo. My job was primarily asset creation. I was creating assets to populate the path where our camera would be flying during the demo. The company I work for is also working on a launch title that I am quite familiar with. In short, I’ve spent some time around the PS3 and or the teams developing for it.

I’ve really had to sit here and think for a long time about what my first comment about the PS3 would be. Will I say, its GREAT or will I give it two thumbs down. Well my immediate impression of the PS3 is…where is it? Seriously, where is it? They have a case, a controller and a dev kit. But the system still doesn’t even exist. So what is there to say? We received one of 5 PS3 dev kits in the United States some time ago. Several companies in the US as well as companies over seas were given the daunting task of creating a demo in less than 9 weeks on a first generation dev kit. Now I’ll be honest with you. What most companies do is fake the entire demo. I mean they come up with some great visuals and neat tricks and scripted events. In the end however, its not a real time demo and its not running ON the actual box. We were the only company to my knowledge that showed something that ran it live on the box. Even then it was a scripted event. You could not pause the camera and fly around the scene. So if you saw the demo once, you saw it again the exact same way the second time. Also this was on a brutally early dev box. You could always tell where the PS3 dev box was because it’s the room that had the f-bomb coming out of it half the day.

Lots of time has passed since that demo and the dev box has gone from a totally jimmy rigged computer and box of parts about the size of a small child, to a much more realistic size. Although its still the size of a normal pc. I have been pretty excited about the whole cell processing thing. I am not a very technical person but my understanding of it was pretty clear. (Multiple processors to handle individual events in parallel). Sounds pretty good to me! To hear people talk, you’d thing that a processor revolution was about to happen. So I’ve been pretty excited to say the least. Now in my opinion it doesn’t matter how good the PS3 is. If the XBOX 360 is better, then it doesn’t really matter how the cell processors work or how good they say it is. Realistically one of them will be better over all. Now I’ve spoken with people who are on the technical side of the PS3. I’ve also talked with people on the technical side of the XBOX 360. The consistent comment I am hearing from people on my end is, “The XBOX 360 is better”. They are saying that it is capable of just doing more. (shrugs) Now take that for what its worth. If you watch all the videos on the PS3 they will say how much more powerful it is than the XBOX and vice versa. Im just telling you what I am hearing. They proceeded to go into a lot of technical info that I don’t understand. So I just nod.

The game that we are creating for a launch title is a “just get it out” title in my opinion. It doesn’t look next generation. I don’t see how anyone could debate otherwise. It looks good. But it looks good for a game that has come out in the last couple years or so. I mean we are talking about a box that will be with us for the next 5+ years! In 5 years will the games we are making today look good? The only way for that to be possible is if the new games coming out for the PS3 are drastically improved. So good that they can stand the test of time until the next system comes out. We’ve all seen Gears of War for the xbox 360. If that even looks half as good when it comes out then I’ll be floored! The game we are making isn’t even in the same league as Gears of War. In fact there are many current games out that look just as good and are using the exact same specs. So, on our end we are either not pushing the bar or were just trying to “get a title out”. To be fair, this is a business. Sometimes you have to treat it as a business and not make the best title you can. The best title you can make usually costs 20-40million dollars/3 start overs and 4 years of your life. You just cant do that every time out. Its impossible. Our game just keeps getting moved back….and back…..and back…..and back. Again, where is the box? Where is the final system? When is it coming out? No one knows and in the mean time people in the industry are starting to get just a little salty. I mean I was at e3 2005 and PS3 was almost no where to be seen.

In closing, I started of VERY excited about the PS3. I was very confident that it was going to just destroy the XBOX 360 just on the name SONY alone. The more time that goes by the more I am becoming doubtful. Everything I’ve developed or seen developed has yet to be “next gen”. The poly counts are not really any higher, im not seeing sub surface scattering, im not seeing much HDR lighting. (or they are faking it and not really doing it), I’m not seeing next gen fluid dynamics or object dynamics. I suspect that you’ll be able to have more dynamic objects in a scene than before. But im not seeing games doing this yet. We dont have a controller, there is no network code and there is no box. Its still the size of a normal PC. Oh well, at least they have normal maps. Although I’m over the normal maps fad ok everyone!

I’m confident that the PS3 will have a few “crazy” games that show it off to its potential. But I would expect the full capabilities of the box to not show up until the system has been released PUBLICALLY for over a year. This is the extra time the developers will need with a FINAL system to truly make next gen games.

Did you fellows ever google for PS3 review? The downinfront "review" was put up in November 2005 on the same week new Xbox was released in NA.

The same metawords have been used ever since with Downinfront:'Playstation 3 Review', 'PS3 Review', 'Exclusive Review PS3' and the review that doesn't exist still is third on the list when you do google search with words ps3 review, so it's pure BS when they say that they didn't want readers or they didn't know what the impact would be.

Then to the original review: why on earth would you want to say

The game that we are creating for a launch title is a “just get it out” title in my opinion. It doesn’t look next generation

about the product your own team would be working with, them few words already broke many parts from an NDA contract: first of all you can't tell that you are working on a title if it's not publically announced, second of all you must keep your opinion to yourself about any title you are working with.

The guy doesn't in the whole text say anything about any other PS3 titles, only says "he will be floored" if gears of war is as good looking as they have shown... that is IMO weird considering the fact that MGS4 had been shown rolling on devkit lot earlier than November 2005 and there had already been comments about things starting to look good on PS3 dev front.

Also there is this part

The poly counts are not really any higher, im not seeing sub surface scattering, im not seeing much HDR lighting. (or they are faking it and not really doing it), I’m not seeing next gen fluid dynamics or object dynamic

which also smells like dung to me, he would have seen HDR if he had looked, he would have seen nexgen object dynamics if he had looked. So it mostly to me sounds like he

a) had wanted to live in a denial or
b) for reason or third wanted to give lot of bad rep for anything Sony

All in all it wouldn't matter to me if anyone said anything good/bad of the corporation they are working for but nothing, I mean nothing makes better flamebait/trolling/fanboi material for those persons who love putting such up than a console "review" (especially when there is no console yet) from some Sony "developer", regardless of what he knows or in which department he works on.

And no, you shouldn't talk smack about your development team, work mates and what they have or haven't achieved regardless of the employee. Anyone with a brain doesn't do that, not on internet, not publically, nowhere, unless you have an agenda.

[frosty]

I agree, and I could have sworn I saw some sub-surface scattering on a marble statue that was being used to shield gunfire in one of the games (forgot which) during the e3 presentation. Unless it was all pre-rendered. Also, games I could clearly see HDR being used, MGS4, UT demo, Getaway demo (they even mentioned it), Motorstorm, Killzone, and that is just what I can think of.

[Freeman_JI]

Originally Posted by cliffbo

i don`t think he broke any nda`s but i think he was probably fired just because his statements made it sound like the ps3 was not as good as the xbox360 and was falling behind schedule which would have been potentially damaging to sony`s plans

That's the impression I got aswell, thought that's from the Teamxbox boards (go figure.)

He went up against the grain of Sonys Hype machine which I guess would be a critical no no in the lead up to launch.

[Pistolero]

"had at least two Sony employees read the article before it was even posted. Even a producer at the company read it"

Well, might seem strange, but I see no more than two possibilities : Either the guy is the dumbest person on earth or, the whole story is a pure imaginary plot. Come'on, a producer read the thing which broke NDA's and didn't voice a concern ?

[CARTIER90]

Frosty - that marble statue looked fookin awesome ! , i remember ther demo, some crazy woo - esque dual gun FPS....as for this guy - maybe we have to face facts, PS3 launch titles probably wont be earth shattering - budget and time constraints will see to that, give Rockstar or PD a chance though and they will know how to make a real NEXT GEN game. ...

[Fats]

Originally Posted by MasaC

You wouldn't say that if you've read what he wrote in that article which got him fired. He's doing alot of personal damage control in this interview imo.

I did actually read it. I was stating that he seems like a sound bloke in aformentioned interview just posted.